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CO₂ (carbon dioxide) is commonly used as a fire extinguishing agent due to its cooling and smothering effects on fires. How it works: Smothering Effect. CO₂ displaces oxygen in the environment around the fire. Since oxygen is a critical component for combustion, reducing its concentration makes it difficult for the fire to sustain itself. By effectively cutting off the oxygen supply, CO₂ helps to smother the fire. Cooling Effect. While CO₂ does have a cooling effect, it is secondary to its smothering capability. When CO₂ is released from a high-pressure cylinder, it expands and cools rapidly. This rapid cooling can help to lower the temperature of the burning material and surrounding air, which aids in extinguishing the fire. CO₂ fire extinguishers are particularly effective for Class B (flammable liquids) and Class C (electrical) fires, where the non-conductive properties of CO₂ and its ability to quickly disperse without leaving a residue are beneficial. C02 more summethering effect and less cooling effect.
My question is is this good eas to under stand example of an explanation of how a water flow in sprinkler evacuatespecially the building? Thoughts please thank you
Very nicely explained and debunked the myths. Still if NOVEC 1230 does not contain PFAS (bad ones) why 3M decided to phase it down? It adds to the confusion of lot many. Pls clarify. .
I live in a house with three apartments and I'm on the third floor the red blood came by with the fire department to test the fire alarms and the health department was heretoo! What does the health department have to do with testing fire alarms?
I want to have an explosion cabinet to blow things up in..! 😆 Serious question, what kind of experience would I need to get a job experimenting with fire and explosions for the purpose of developing safety? This would be so much cooler than a desk job lol
Lee is one of the most dynamic and comprehensive trainers I have ever encountered. Prior to Covid, ORR sponsored an in class room one-day training event for code review that focused on fire alarm and fire protection ITM (inspection, testing & maintenance) that was incredible. Lee would travel the country and we were lucky enough to have him visit Cincinnati regularly. I looked forward to this seminar every year.
Great test and video, thank you for sharing it with us. Starting to see an increasing number of lithium storage set ups in the small craft that we survey. Some installations are better than others but there is rarely sufficient fire detection or fire fighting equipment to deal with thermal runaway. The implications of an incredibly hot, heavy item inside a fibreglass yacht hull (usually stored below the waterline) makes for a very dangerous combination.
It seems to me that the 20 kWh limit for li-ion batteries has a built-in assumption that all of those cells are in somewhat close proximity. I'm not sure should apply when you have small numbers of cell that may be fairly widely distributed throughout the fire area. After all, the opportunity for propagation will be reduced over a situation where you have one rack of 20 kWh.
Good discussion. I'm surprised you recommend Novec 1230 because of (1) the issues alluded to by @charlesdbruce, and (2) because 3M announced in December that it is discontinuing Novec 1230 in 2025. Are you going to specify an agent for a project that won't be available only 2 years from now? Even if you can source a replacement FK-5-1-12 agent, how long will those last since their OEMs will face the same issues that 3M did? I'm a little more open minded than the other commenter on F500, but research to date is certainly mixed. I don't think it's a silver bullet. ConEd, NYSERDA, and DNV GL found it to be less effective than plain water on battery fires. Even some of the papers that show the best F500 results showed almost as good performance from plain soap.
Thanks Nick for your question. We're working hard to keep up with all the changes in the industry. In March we will release some additional content related to the coming changes with Novec, so keep an eye out for that content coming your way.
No agent can control or extinguish a Li-ion thermal runaway fire! Clean agents should not be used. By using a clean agent, you could create the conditions for an explosion. After the agent runs out (and it will run out), the Li-ion battery continues to off gas - because the agent never stopped the root cause of the fire - the thermal runaway. Combustible gases continue to build up and find an ignition source... boom! This is what happened at Surprise AZ. Unless you can pick up the entire enclosure and submerge it in water - you can’t put it out with any agent. The strategy should be to provide emergency venting of the enclosure upon detection of combustible gases and to keep the enclosures far enough apart to prevent propagation from unit to unit. Delflagration venting should also be included. F500... is laughable. I saw their presentation a couple years ago. They put two open sprinklers directly over an open tray of Li-ion batteries (like inches above). As soon as the batteries started to thermal runaway… they deluged the batteries… and called it a success. That is not a real world configuration. F500 is not the right product for Li-ion fires. Great for oil hazards... but not Li-ion. The only real tool we have is separation. Hopefully, a different - non flammable - battery chemistry will utlimately win out in the long run and we won't have to be concerned with Li-ion fires in the future...
If you have additional questions about storage tank requirements, feel free to drop a note on our Ask the Experts page at www.orrprotection.com/ask-an-expert.
