@@thisisashville don't spend too much in case there is a belt cut or some technical issue at the time of unload what do you use you need LH60, so instead of spending more spend less and get an additional LH60 use for plant hire as well as your dual unload at a time. think about it.
@sathish_90. No room for running 2 lh60's and the additional wheel loaders that would be required in addition. Plus the reliability has not been great with the lh60 with it's constant dpf issues and problems. The under ground belt option is way more easy to deal with and belt cuts can be sorted a lot quicker than you think with the right previsions put in place.
I'm a smaller contractor, that has been building my business (without debt) for 30 years. It's taken me way too long to get to where i am now. I would have once said, limit debt and build organically. Now, I believe that debt can bring the business to a much higher level, while at the same time, understanding that there's no guarantee on the return. At the end of the day, we have ONE life, and limited time on this planet. I'm NOW going for it! ( whatever it takes to get to the next level )
I'm also building a scaffolding rental company Organically here in South Africa. I wish my credit record allowed me to take the debt and grow this business faster.
There's a very good podcast by James Sinclair called the business broadcast, and he often says similar. Don't try and fund expansion with cashflow, use sensible credit facility and operate that way so you can grow much faster.
Seems a sensible hedge, as long as none of the material bays are permanent. I'd imagine planning permission might consume some unplanned for time for the new yard project..
100%, Came here to suggest this - He has the skills and resources in house to build the pit now, while the tracks are being laid, so that when the time comes the yard can keep operating around the rest of the automated construction.
This. Minimal capex required given Ashville’s capabilities. If you can’t substantiate having 3 or 4 trains a day immediately, at least pour a large pit ready to expand at a later date.
The editing and rendering on this video is on another level, the part were the 3d drawings transitioned into the real video of the conveyor drone shot with that music was perfect.
besides just keeping the lh60 and going fully finished bottom discharge i see 2 inbetween solutions; 1: Prepare the groundwork and stuff like that for the bottom discharge as you build the yard, install the rest when finance and demand allow for it. That way you don't have to rip everything up and have long downtime when you do the switch later. 2: Add a conveyor system to work with the LH60, so you skip the wheel loader.
Personally I'd stick with the LH60, it gives you freedom to unload where and when, you could implement a belt system and hopper to unload into to save handling costs plus what would poor Flo do if you take away his office? Throw the saved money into that batch plant.
Stick with the LH60 and box wagons as the machinery for bottom discharge goes wrong a lot and once the temperature drops too low the material can get frozen inside for days. However, the best bottom discharge system I've seen is at Tarmac Radlett. The rail goes over the bays so you just empty the wagons through the hole onto the ground below, no conveyor belts, just gravity! No machinery to go wrong and can empty a whole train in 30 minutes. Not sure you would have the room for that though as it's a circular system. Good luck with whatever you choose!
I mean finically why not in the groundwork for the 6 million option like the concrete for less than the 6 million but continue to operate the excavator until it starts to become finically unviable or demand starts to increase beyond current capacity.
Because there is about 1% chance that Nr is gonna make the track along the yard 2T, so there is about 0% chance that the train is gonna be given a 2-3 hour block of a 1T route between the mainlines and Heathrow. Incase you dont understand, while the train is being offloaded the front would be sat on the 1T section while it slowly reverses over the pit.
He did say in a previous video how they plan on putting in a loop for the loco to pull the cars in, disconnect, drive to the other end, and reconnect. So there should be plenty of track to prevent the mains from being blocked
Keep the lh60, but create a conveyer system in the new yard that comes directly from the material sections where the LH60 Deposits it that then goes straight into the lorry’s that arrive on site, the conveyer goes directly above the lorry trailer or back. Saves loading it all with a wheel loader back and fourth burning diesel. That would then confirm the amount of material being loaded into the lorry’s and take stress off the weigh bridge
If you do get a bottom discharge unit, you HAVE to call it your Freight Aggregate Rail Terminal… Rather than going head first, put the really difficult bits of infrastructure in now (under the tracks etc before you start concreting the new yard) then leave the flexibility to invest in a BDU in a few years. You have the new yard on 50 year lease so even if you put it in within 5 years that’s still 45 years it will be able to deliver that return/reduced operation expenses.
Not for me to say don't do it! Consider purchasing another LH60 instead. This will allow you to double your productivity and provide redundancy. Remember, while you were in Dubai, you saw people making serious money with less effort and reduced exposure. Keep in mind the importance of having an exit strategy.
Keep current system, it allows the business to pivot quickly and be more reactive to marked demand, need more trains, add another handler. if aggre demand is reduced hire out the handler to other company's the handler could load into a belt system itself to avoid double handling
No doubt going moving to the new yard will be raising your debt anyway, so providing you can afford the monthly repayments and you have the money available to do so, I'd go all in now, assuming you have strategies in place to gain market share / use of new capacity in the medium term. I have so much respect for Daniel - how he takes time out of every day to film videos with all the stress of the day to day is incredible. He is truly inspirational
Loan the money, build the system, sell the lh60, big cash injection will come in handy for all the extra bits and bobs that you didnt expect once the new yard is up and running. But we all know this man made his mind up about this long ago and whatever he chose is the right decision! Anyone with a business knows that the level of effort Daniel puts in isnt worth it to not be considered by himself a market leader! 1 extra train unloading per day on average would double the income, easy decision!
Only issue is convers belts break down be down time two days to week they just pick up new unloading digger of dealership yard or hire one handy quicker as back up... if he goes spend 6 million not be easy funding repaired... and down time...
As a railway fan, I am definitely for the hopper system. But: If one of the conveyors breaks down, everything is on hold. Therefore: get a second Liebherr and be flexible and have a backup if one of them break down. Like the idea of the conveyor belts of others, to directly load and distribute the gravel. And: it is not in your plans, so you already decided against it. ;-)
Ive watched the last few years and the success you've had is a product of all your commitment and hard work and also that of all of the employees How far the business has come but also the channel just shows how commitment and hard work does pay off! Congrats! Nothing but admiration for you all!
I think just use the digger. £6million is too much to loan on it. Just use the digger, have more relaxed time on holidays knowing not have to pay it off. Or option b) Build the reinforced concrete hole now, but wait to the future to add the expensive conveyor belt system until demand requires more material. So do the concrete work yourself for hole. 😊
Another great"stand alone" video, Daniel. Your upload schedule is a credit to you. I know the £6m outlay would be an issue, but I would love to see you take that route. Good luck mate!
Option #3 Hybrid System Some automation added to assist existing machines and set up Answer Multiple aggregate conveyors set up to discharge over holding bin. And Or a combination of a fixed conveyor system with additional movable conveyors that are track mounted and remote controlled. The Edge Innovate products are made close by. The MTS140 would work well for your new designed yard and add flexibility to your Offloader. Another thought would be the Edge MTS140 with a Wilson portal aggregate conveyors (I think you can find a closer manufacturer). Unload bottom drop rail cars and if needed unload from the top of the system goes down. Quick math save yourself $3-5 Million! Awesome work from you and the Crew!
Long time viewer. Daniel always explains things perfectly. This should be shown in every 'business strategy' class ever, just as a real world example of things to consider. Brilliant as always.
It boils down too a simple want or need.... we all want the latest and greatest, but affordability comes into question. Need, on the other hand, is something completely different... you don't get the choice. Clearly, Ashville is growing, and that is fantastic, especially for us following and watching ! Do you have time to install a drop system ? that is the real question. I am guessing the drop system would give you greater flexibility and bigger growth for the future... Taking Ashville to the next level ❤
Like many others have suggested, Prepare the groundwork with the pit, and build the rest of the system when it makes sense. Earmark the land you need for the the future conveyors so you don't over develop those parts of the land to heavily to be ripped out later.
Remember the multitude of ways to be profitable...... more trains = more materials= more sales= increased revenue however it also brings more costs. The real question is (and im sure we all know the answer is YES!) Will you regret not doing it? Love the work and passion brother.
I would assume so with the digging out and getting all the infrastructure man-hours and so on. In my opinion, split the baby and get another LH60, and the front loader works from left to right away it's working now I don't see why it wouldn't in the future. The conveyor system is the next evolution when they own more of the lot.
Stick with the LH60 but get a couple of mobile conveyors to offload into and distribute your materials. This way you have the option to change the yard around if you need to. It would be a lot cheaper too.
Build the concrete pit and rebar sections to future prep it. That way once there's a need (and a bit of cash freed up longer term) you can build up the shed and conveyor system which in the scheme of things will be easier to install later without having to recertify the railhead
Implementing a hopper rail service in your new yard with conveyor belts to manage different aggregate solutions is an efficient and effective logistics strategy. By implementing a hopper rail service with conveyor belts, you can significantly enhance the efficiency and productivity of your aggregate handling operations. This setup not only streamlines the process but also offers long-term cost savings and improved safety for your workforce. Daniel you would feel like a kid in candy shop every time a train visits your new yard and we the followers would get many train montages, so it would seem like the answer is looking you in the face.
Future proofing the business is a must. If u don’t take the 6 million plan u cannot expand as big and fast as u want. Taking the 6 mill idea would enable a future of huge growth, with a huge yard, with a huge business. You only get one shot to do it, if you got the idea, the finance in place, the vision to become that huge entity. Go for it Daniel. No Holds Barred. If u don’t do it, u risk sustaining a growth into a yard that u may simply be sustaining and gradually growing without the impact of thrusting into the future at a fast bullish pace
BDS I would worry that if there was a serious failure in the plant the rail head could be out of action for a number of days.... while not easy due to movement restrictions and so on you could hire a replacement LH60 or similar while not to your needs it would be a quick not nice fix. Do you have the room for storage for up to 3 or 4 loads a day? How long would a BDS be in the mainline for? If the system is at the front of your railhead it will surely mean 20+ trucks will at one stage be on the mainline whilst tipping. By the time you paid for it the plant will already be very worn out. Possible nasty surprises during excavation/planning/building. Lossing the flexibility of the bays. No electricity no work, if the power goes out are you 100% sure that generator will start and will it cope? Plus side*** If the container port became popular it would allow extra time for loading containers. chances of somebody getting hit with a wheeled or track plant greatly reduced. Cleaner/Greener and nicer for neighbours.
Nicer for neighbours is only for those very close by who can hear any noise. Bigger impact locally would be due to increased HGV flow on woefully inadequate roads.
Prepare now for installing the system. Build all. What is necessary. And when you will need the extra unloading capacity and doesnt pay off anymore doing things with the excavators then build the conveyor belt. Dont do it just to impress people. Find contracts and be able finance all the necessary extra equipment like trucks which later will be important to distribute the material to the construction sites you got orders from.
I think you should probably put the box and bits in to support bottom discharge now. But maybe wait until the main works are out of the way before you do the above ground pieces. Long term, if you're planning on being there for 50 years, it's probably the way forwards. Short term, maybe a bigger LH60C (maybe the High-Rise version?) may be a good purchase, gives you some redundancy and lets you unload a bit quicker. Or the LH60's bigger brother the LH80 :)
even if you got the discharge unit, keeping the LH60 would probably be a good idea so you have options, say for example a new supplier in the future cant send in BDU wagons or you start offering a material that cant use BDU (if there is such a thing), plus you've mentioned in the past starting sending stuff out from your yard too so there needs to be a way to load trains with whatever product
I'm not that much into material handling, but back then when you got your LH60 I was really wondering like "wow. So many individuals and machinery on tires just to offload sand and stone?" A lot here are saying just stick to the LH60. If you have that much of an advantage in the area you are supplying material with, that may work for a few years. But if there's any technologically somewhat advanced competition I doubt you can keep up. Loaders, shovels, workers, maintenance - tires, fluids, service, diesel (we all know, will only go up), TIME,... These are all factors that very very likely will only get worse in coming years. The bottom discharge system is a no-brainer in my opinion, even though I doubt you can get one fully installed in a timely manner if you haven't had it planned out long ago already. If that's a viable option, I would at least get the concrete work and preparations in, which you can't easily add later, NOW. And build it out at a later stage. If you can really get the BDS built in a timely manner and get the financials for it, I'd do it now. It's mindboggling to me to offload it with a shovel on to the ground, get a loader to pack it into a bay, and then again get it loaded from there. Touched three times with individually operated machinery to get it out. If the financials are there I would have it loaded by a conveyor as well if you only have 3 main types of aggregate. And a shovel (maybe from the hire service) for backup. Also, get a BDS planned out to accomodate a concrete mixing plant layout. That would make even more sense. I doubt you will still be messing around with volumetrics in a few years. I remember you talking about how some customers dislike em lol Good luck Daniel!
Daniel, your business is brilliant, your level headed and know what's needed and when to progress your companies new yard. My advice for what it's worth, is to weigh up the options for what's needed now, then stick with your decision. If its spend the big money now, or spend it in 5 years.. trust the advice you've been given, then trust your decision off the back of it.. Alex.
I’d say yes… new yard, new start, new contracts, new opportunities, if anyone can you can… You’re an inspirational person and would want to work for you. 🤛🏻
i have to unload my truck, in those shuuts. and its a disaster some times. the operators complain of material decontamination. because they cant easily clean the system. and it takes around 20mins to have the belts clean. big companys. aperam chatelet arcelor mittal dunkerque arcelormittal volklingen. ect.
i would implement the Groundwork for a BDU, because as Daniel said in a Ashvill Weekly do it right the first Time. If you have the Groundwork ready and the cost of the LH60 is rising as the Maschine gets older you can just fit a BDU because you allready have the Groundwork, the LH60 can be used for the time beeing but dont end up like the problems you have with your old Wheelloaders, there are high in hours and can break and end up not worth fixxing. Logistics wise speaking it would be wise if moving forward you don't do double Handling, and bring more Material and shorten the Unloadtime. Thanks for the Standalone Video. Greetings from Switzerland
Yes. They are midway along colnbrook, but Heathrow fuel(2xday) and some other bits are at the end. They can also load inert muck into box wagons centrally with the lh60. Bdu doesn't make sense as the train would be blocking the line. Also, the wagons can hold less material compared to box wagons, it's a few tonnes per wagon, but at 20 wagons, that's a few tippers full.
@@justhowulikeit6432 so with the tonnage drop pet wagon, they'd NEED the extra wagons and end up having almost the same tonnage? Bdu isn't the solution,a second handler and a Tele handler/Reach or two for container traffic would be far more beneficial, like midland gateway
@@IronHorseRailways yeah, but just focusing on aggs in and inert muck out. Hit it hard and get some massive projects done. Since Elizabeth line opened west Drayton is a lot closer to the city, so it's a bit more desirable to live. Development time.🤑
I would go with an option in between, you could create the concrete box beneath the track and have it ready to add the conveyors and system at a later date, so there would never be the problem of shutting down the track to add later down the road. And for the moment concentrate one setting up the rest, as you have the LH60 and can currently offload the train and can even continue until you have the funds to add the system later.
Bottom discharge system increases efficiency in your business less machines, less maintenance, less cost in the long run. You will not have to worry about missing an unload or stressing about it being done in time. An Auger system could distribute the aggregate in piles. You could even put in place an auger system to load trucks up with certain weight as concrete mixers do here in the states. Do it.
Go for it Daniel, you’re a brilliant business man and you wouldn’t of made this video if you wasn’t thinking of doing it, life is a constant gamble but you seem to win 🏆 most of the time 👌👌 and just think of the amount of trains you’ll see every day 😁😁🔥🔥👌👌
Sensible but the train would have to take away the wagons and bring back bix ones as the floor is different inside so won't be able to use grab in the bdu wagons
The decision is yours mate, all I'll say is "fortune favours the brave" and I have no doubt that whatever you choose, you will make the best of it, good luck
put the sub base for the BDU in now while buildng new yard, add another LH60 as the other will be paid off in a few years, use 2 to unload trains faster, double handling will just have to be done for now, as demand grows u add peices to the BDU to get it up and running in 5 years time, by then both LH60s are paid as well which the newer one could be sold for cash ingection. GL and keep pushing COZ ASHIVILLE IS NOT SHOOK !!!!
Put in provision for the BDU if you can afford to, even if not fully installed, and if anything Ashville has shown it will grow business to meet this need. Think for the future!
Currently building a new farm yard so have the same dilemma with sheds/silage pits etc I work on the theory it’s not “if you expand” it’s “when you expand” 2 years down the line you’ll want that conveyer belt system. Build it now, it’s an asset to the business so use it as much as possible, and it’ll start paying for itself in no time.
Sell some shares in your company to raise capital, no debt needs to be taken on and you could use 2-4 trains for aggregates if needed or use the excess trains for freight! If you set it up ergonomically then you’d also have enough room to double the traffic in and out of the business as that would also be hard to do if current issues persist into the future. Love your videos keep up the excellent work!!
What about buying another lh60 in a couple of years time? Then you can have two working, which doubles your capacity, and also covers the risk of breakdowns as you can still get the train unloaded with the one machine.
I agree with the comments below. Build the bottom discharge under the rail line and make it so you can add it later. But as a hedge buy another LH60! Two LH60s offloading may be a lot faster. An LH60 costs approx $100k/annum to run incl, capital. Plus the loader. You could be in for $400k per annum. Versus $6m. 15 years payback.
One of the best videos you made of your major decision making dilemmas. Ashville is growing rapidly and faces risk of bottlenecking the speed of supply to customers with aggregates. I believe bitting the bullet and choosing the £6 million upgrade will give you less grey hair in the long run of your 50 year lease……. I repeat , 50 year lease.
This has been some journey we have been on with you pal. A mean from the very beginning you've been so down to earth and honest. Love it big chap and love watching your whole journey so far. Can't wait to see what is next for you and your company.
There’s a company called Edge; they manufacture conveyors, screen decks and other material handling machines. The one you want to check out is their TOL-TS80. It’s a tracked machine that is specifically designed to offload bottom discharge train wagons. Mobile, fuel efficient and should be a faster option than the LH60 at a fraction of the price of the bottom discharge facility. If the conveyor on that unit isn’t wide enough to accommodate the opening of a discharge door, edge and a few other manufacturers produce a unit that relatively low profile for trucks to drive over and dump (on/into). Pour a slab with a space for a mobile off-loader to fit in between then lay the track across the top of the slabs and “mobile” off-loader
love how you don't give nothing away in clips on what you done. but built frame. fit everything when you have moved and cost allow then you have both systems. a drop system and back up. that's worth it as to one system. also allow for changing everything like wagons network rail etc. BUT growing your business. and cut cost long term as you do have 50 year least now. everything is easy with open cheque book. you have alot in short time to keep running and move sites. good luck
Bottom discharge is the way to go for future development, 6 Mil is a hard pill to swallow but would cost alot more in the future to get done. Do it once do it properly, the debt can always be paid because of you work ethic, demand and commitment to the game. 💯
Should definitely do the bottom discharge solution. The labour and fuel savings alone would pay the loan required. The cost per ton would effectively be reduced, meaning youre more competitive, allowing more sales and upper the train schedule. IMO its the obvious solution for growth
Go BIG and do it! You want to save time off loading so you have an option to store more Aggregate. Installing it now would also future proofs the business, Sure you could get some sponsors together for funding! I already know the video documentary behind you building the Pit would be epic too! Were all behind you!🙏👊
It think it's a no brainer. If you're in a position to weigh it up as an option, and it being something you've mentioned before, I'd vote for the go-ahead Why limit further connections by keeping smaller loading bays. Go big or go home
Bottom Discharge System wins out for me, if you can weather out the cost, its greener, quicker, safer, easier to staff & more cost effective., I know its a big commitment, however better to start with it than go though the hassle of retrofitting it at a later date, that's why I think you should bite the bullet :)
The answer depends upon two things. No 1 the 20yr cost vs profit difference of the two models. No 2 Your personal 20yr plan for the business. Major decision, but your business would easily be able to substantiate its benefits to be able to get the funding. There are multiple ways of funding this, not just finance, but also shares in the business for the right person or group.
Hi Daniel, this is Mark from Nairobi, Kenya. Given the costs already incurred and the fact that the LH60 is already paid off, I would recommend the LH60 for now, but strategize and think of a future plan for the costlier system once the business grows. The financial pressure can be overbearing and take away to other parts of the business and remove your strategic flexibility down the line.
Daniel we know you walked this issue thru Tom fox and Odonovan. The decision has already been made 😆 😆 😆. Either way happy you're involving us in the process.
100% do a bottom discharge system over the old system - noise pollution: can be run at anytime and keeps neighborhood happy. - safety: allowing save work around the area with vehicle to move around as well as works. And the uploading of products - Long run: if the increase of product need you have the ability to do so leading up to the end gole - running: cost of running is just about the same but has the ability to expand over time to reduce dubble handling
Simple cost/benefit analysis. Find out how much time/material is moved currently, and set it up with what the proposal can do. Then find out how much time has to be spend using the 'new solution' for it to become profitable over the current setup. If the time it takes is over the amount that mgmt. believes it should/ want they want it to take, then its a no go, if mgmt is good with the time frame then do so. Remember to include operations cost for the machines + Service&maintenance.
You have been a man who has always taken a risk and a man who has always made it work … so go for it , it will push you to strive even further than where you are and will give you the motivation to make sure it works. You will generate more work when people see what you have available as demand will go up even further
Pour the underground foundation now for future use and utilize it as storage space, and then purchase/install the equipment later when supply demands it.
Go in between. Implement a conveyor system that's best suited for your yard and its demands... something the LH60 can offload directly on to, but is still somewhat portable. This will help you to offload quicker and minimise double handling, thus possibly enabling you to have more trains in per day, without getting deeper in debt.
Put in the foundation for the underground bottom discharge hoppers and buy the kit for it later or do an above ground belt system for the LH60 to load onto like they do at ship terminals
I personally would go for the bottom dump unit especially in your country were they are always offering Grants to save on energy and carbon footprint projects. don't forget to add the solar power to the roof to help offset power bill. You would most likely pay for it with in 10 years or less with just labor fuel and maintenance cost savings, but do you have the time?
The business is your baby Daniel, and like babies it will grow. Invest in the future! On another note as someone who builds and maintains similar infrastructure in the Australian mining industry, strong consider the maintenance side of things for the new plant, access, handling of large parts etc. easier to build into it now than down the track (no pun intended 😂)
i have to unload my truck, in those shuuts. and its a disaster some times. the operators complain of material decontamination. because they cant easily clean the system. and it takes around 20mins to have the belts clean. big companys. aperam chatelet arcelor mittal dunkerque arcelormittal volklingen. ect
Another issue i dont think i hear you mention was the time it will take to plan, build, check, test and then put into action because you wont be able to offload any material till then. During that time the track will be out of action because its happening right at the front so no trains will be able to come in and be material taken the current way.
Hi, At a yard near me, they use 2 unloaders similar to yours plus a loading shovel to move it to stockpile. I'd say for now, just get another unloading machine, at least then IF one breaksdown you still get the job done. One wheeled loader can easy keep up with two of those unloading machines.
Get another LH60 to speed the process of unloading, and in the other hand, you have backup if one goes VOR. Also considered using hopper with conveyor belt on tracks(crusher base machine) to transfer materials from LH60 into bays.
I'd build the pit now to future-proof the yard for 10-year plans. However Flo will continue to offload with LH60 material handler for the foreseeable future. Nice videograpy.. just keeps getting better.
It's a good idea to plan for the future before things are set. Like you said it would have to undo so much work to put in later plus shut down the new yard to implement later. Now you could put the BDU in and NOT have to shut down the yard to do it.
