Down-tuning involves dropping standard tuning a half-step or a whole-step (or more) to reduce string tension and for musical benefits. #12string #12stringguitar #12stringtuning
Hi, Thanks a lot for that video. I tought since a while that downtuning to D is the best for a 12 strings. But many luthiers told me it was too low. Well, the good thing with a D tuning (instead of a half note down as D#) is that when you have to play with others, the capo to at the 2nd fret let you the possibility to continue to use the dots as references for your chords. And effectively, the sound is amazing in bass notes and provide a deep vibration. So thank you for those good reminders.
I’m currently working on some old Kottke tunes. I have one 12-string tuned to open-G, but tuned down 1 1/2 steps. That makes the low E strings a B-flat! It’s a challenge keeping definition in that range.
I have all my guitars tuned to D standard, not just my 12-strings. It lowers the string tension, gives you more low end (I play with an amp most of the time, even when I'm practicing) and by now it just feels like normal to me. And after some time the transposing becomes second nature and the capo is still my best friend, because most of the time, when we have more than one acoustic guitar, I put my capo in weird places anywhere to play the same chords in different voicing, to really make the sound-advantage of multi-guitars shine
steph + GWGuitarStudio : I wanna encourage *everybody* to listen to Puerto Rican, Cuban, and Brazilian folkloric music. Local variations on guitars often have SUPER low tunings. You can hear the non-wound strings be floppy, and that really pushes the folkloric elements toward.
Greg, very much appreciate your detailed demo and narrative on the subject of down-tuning (your accomplished skill is also inspiring). I'm a long-time guitar play, relatively new to 12-string. Thank you for the creative options you've shared here - I'm going to try these now!
Thanks a lot for your detailed information for down tuning a 12 string guitar, also for your inspiration with different guitars and tunes. Helps me a lot to understand as a new comment in 12 string. Best regards from Germany, Patric
This is an excellent video - packed with truly useful info! It seems like a half-step down might be the best compromise. I have a 12-string Epiphone that I bought in 1980 - and always have kept it to standard tuning. But it inevitably developed neck sag - but only after many years. So, I got a luthier to do some re-enforcement - and about 7 years later it still holds up at standard tuning. However, I've considered down-tuning and plan to - especially after seeing this video - Thanks!
My 12 strings have gone weird but that's over the stretch of nearly 3 decades , being in extreme weather changes too. I'm about to buy another one. You sound great.I use 10's thin to about 12 thin Standard.Thanks.
When I bought my first 12 string, I was recommended to tune it 4 semitones down from standard tuning. This worked, saved countless string breakages and gave a good sound and action. Recently, I have been exploring DADGAD tuning (or B F# B F# E F# B) and the sound is amazing. I recommend trying it, via one of the many videos available.
My main acoustic is already tuned down half a step. I have no issues using a capo hahahaha. Thank you for this. Been playing guitar for 20 years and just got my first 12 string acoustic because I've always wanted one, but I also got a Roadie 3 tuner because they are a pain in the ass to tune all the time, so now I just go through each string and let the roadie tune it for me.
I still have a full 12 string set of D'Angelico lights in my guitar case! I have played 12 string guitars since the 60's and that was always my go-to string set. Actually, it was the only acoustic set I ever bought and played. Amazing to hear them mentioned. I have always kept my Guild tuned down a whole note and just capo'ed up whenever I played with others
Yea, like Don below, I had my first 12 back in the day and always kept her 2 steps down. And I focused on those open chords, beautiful. It was a Suzuki (gorgeous!)... and got stolen :( Now looking for another just to use for backing to some of my proggy stuff :) Thanks for your your informative video.
I got my first 12 string back in the 60s, and followed the contemporary wisdom of tuning 2 semi-tones down to D. Nowadays I tune to D# standard intervals with three of my four (all large body 17'" Jumbo) 12 string guitars (Taylors and Guilds). The 4th one is tuned down from there to a C# DADGAD interval tuning. String gauges are all {.010 - .047}. Covers a lot of bases. And the bass drone sounds from the fingerpicked C# DADGAD interval tuned guitar are awesome. I also keep a rosewood six string Jumbo tuned to D# because it can come in handy.
What gauge do you use on the down-tuned six-string?I just went back to using mediums on my jumbo Alvarez six-string. I keep it in open G tuning, but one half-step low. It just sounds richer that way.
Ive been tuned down a whole step on guitar, bass, acoustic since the 90s. Thinking of getting a 12 string. Didn't know about standard tuning being possibly bad.🤔🍻
Well, thank you for the info my Taylor 12 string thank you probably 1999 I keep it tuned at regular pitch and never had any problems with it even not using my light gauge strings and always stays in tune. I’m gonna try different varieties and different tuning.
Wow someone who can actually play a 12! lol Got a Maton SRS70C 12 recently and just ordered a G7th Newport 12 string capo. Played 12s live for years in standard tuning. I'll be tuning the Maton down a halfstep forevermore as I'll only be recording and multi-tracking alone from here on in. I'm after slightly reduced neck tension, a little more low end beef and to drone on with Irish bozoukis etc. No I am not changing my name to Leo. 😆 Great video thanks and all the best to you!
When I had my 12 string, I always down tuned a full step and capo on 2nd fret. Same reason: got tired of breaking that high G. It played better and I almost never took the capo off.
My Martin J12-15 was definitely built for standard tuning with Martin strings. At least that’s what it says in the warranty/care and feeding pamphlet that came with it.
It would be good to see a video comparison of the 12 string with normal tuning and then nashville tuning (7 cents up and down) Maybe try it on all the strings to see what happens.
Excellent video & great info; thank you! I got my smaller-bodied Guild F112 new in 1984 & have always kept it in D Standard with 10s. I've switched between Martin, D'Addario & Elixirs, but am currently trying out Ibanez strings, completely new to me. I've never really found a good amplified sound, despite having a nice AER Domino acoustic amp & several good preamps - various undersaddles and a Fishman Rare Earth have all sounded way too brash & harsh to me. I'm interested to see that you're using Dean Markley soundhole p.u.'s, I'll look into that - thanks again! 🙂
Live, I use a combination of pickup and mic. I have the sound tech mix them 50/50 at the board. I EQ them so I get high transients and sparkle from the mic and the low end from the pickup, which is less prone to feedback.
I tune all my guitars, even my 6 strings, down to D to D, as it fits my vocals best. On my 12 string, I use medium strings, with a heavy 58 on the bass E with no octave string… basically an 11 string. This gives a huge bass, with all the jangle I want. BTW, checking on a tension calculator, tuning down to D reduces full set tension by a full 20%.
It'll depend on the string gauge you're using. For E Standard Tuning they recommend sticking to really light gauge strings. I heard of a new and interesting set that would totally rock. That string set is the Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Acoustic Guitar strings which are distinguished from most 12 String Guitar string sets because they have EQ'd the tension of each string to allow for a really neat balance between tone and playability.
@@GWGuitarStudio You bet and it'll totally rock because these amazing Santa Cruz Strings (they're made from an interesting alloy) have an interesting saying "Gauge Means nothing, Tension means everything".
@@GWGuitarStudio Santa Cruz Guitars found out that the problem with most Acoustic Guitar string sets is that the tension is compromised, probably due to the difference in core to wrap wire ratio from model to model as well as the very primitive materials and technology that was used to make them. Santa Cruz worked around that issue by adjusting the core to wrap wire ratio on the wound strings (for the plain steel strings they make them a bit thicker or thinner by a couple hundred thousandths of an inch).
@@RockStarOscarStern634 They’re $36 (US) for a set!!! Holy moley! I haven’t paid that kind price for strings since I lived in Deutschmark many years ago. Most of the price was in the VAT tax (Mehrwertsteuer).
I finally bought myself a new 12 string Guild Jumbo today after 30 years without one. HOOPLA, it's a blast. My old 12 string was not near as good and constantly broke strings, wouldn't stay in tune. I like more mellow tones and this Guild is very jangly so I tuned it down to D and it's perfect. It also has a piezo pickup. I just tried it plugged in and it blew me away. Still getting used to it, but it's coming back fast. Watched a bunch of your videos and it helps. In D tuning I can play barre chords no problem. Thank you.
I have a custom 12 string and when I ordered it (40 years ago) I told the luthier it would always be tuned down 2 half steps to D. For the first 20 odd years I used 12 / 52 guage strings and it rocked! Then it got humidity damage in Thailand and the top lifted and bellied up. I took it back to the luthier and he did his best to get the bulge out of it. Now I tune down to C# and use 11 / 50 gauge strings and actually I prefer that. I am a big Kottke fan so it suits my style. I never buy 12 string sets. I get 2 sets of six and a couple of octave (3rd & 4th) strings extra. This way its easier to get the gauge you prefer and as a bonus you get the wound 5th string octave which gives the guitar a real deep rich bass. Concerning reasons to tune down, I have a few: It reduces the tension on the neck so you shouldn't get any lifting or neck issues. Playing with a capo in concert makes it easier because the frets are closer. The low tension also makes it easier to play. You can use medium gauge strings which give the guitar a much clearer and rich tone, especially the top strings. In all the guitar becomes more balanced. I would strongly advise any prospective 12 string buyer to get a jumbo cutaway because they produce a richer sound and you will need to play higher up the finger board when you use a capo. Another thing to look for is the neck width at the top nut and the spacing of the courses. My 12 string is 50 mm at the top nut and the courses are approx 3 mm apart. This changes the timing on the attack od each individual string when you strum slowly and the strings begin to create a natural chorus effect which to my mind is the beauty of a 12 string. When the courses are too close the chorus effect can't develop so far. It also makes it easier to pick individual strings like in the classic Hotel Chiang Mai Plaza intro by the Byrds of Pray! (the names and places have been changed to avoid copyright issues from a certain Mr. Felder).
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
For E Standard Tuning consider switching to Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension 12 String Guitar strings which are basically balanced Extra Light Gauge 12 String Guitar strings
@@kingrobert1st Try the Santa Cruz 12 String Guitar strings in E Standard sometime. They work around those compromises by having the core to wrap wire ratio EQ'd.
A really nice video, concise and understandable. I have a 1970 12 fret Martin, Ive had it 20 + years and which to be honest is a bugger to tune, half the time im tuning it and the rest playing out of tune! (Mandolin joke....!) i believe it has 9s, probably a Martin standard 12 string set actually. when its in tune it flies, it really sings. its always been in standard pitch. i'm curious now about changing things to a drop tuning, and i am mindful of the change to the guitar. i was wondering what you might think about going to 11's with a D tuning? it has no truss rod of course, Thanks in advance, again an excellent article.
Try tuning it down a half-step to D-sharp first to see how it affects the guitar. Many old Martins don’t have an adjustable truss rod. If the guitar does OK at D-sharp, you can try taking it down to D. (The guitar will probably sigh with relief after lowering the string tension after all those years!)
I tune my 12s down to C, then the g normally in the third position, is now in the "b" or 2nd position which the octave g gives advantages for melody lines with a high sound, especially capoed up. I also use a single string for the low C with 0.059" and the F 0.046" so the 12 is actually a 10 string.
I use open tunings on 6-string and I keep one 6-string in Open G all the time. I don’t use them on 12-string much because of hassles of changing tunings. I don’t play enough songs in open tunings to warrant keeping a 12-string dedicated to an open tuning. I do keep several 12-strings in downtunings, which may be 1/2-step, a whole-step, or 1 1/2-step down, but the string intervals are the same as standard tuning.
Nice video, just what I was looking for. I have a Hokada 3142 12 string guitar (late 70s/early 80s, I think). It's a nice instrument but I've always struggled to play it. The action is about 6-7mm at 12th fret and it can be very difficult to hold down bar chords cleanly. I can't see any easy way of lowering the action so needed another option for making it more playable. I thought I'd experiment with drop tuning and have gone 1½ steps to C#. It's suddenly so much easier to play and I really like the different tone. But is 1½ steps too much?? Could I be doing damage to the guitar without realising with such reduced string tension? I've got Martin 12 strings on (10s thru 47s). Not sure if that's too light but they don't sound too bad either. Also, in E or C# tuning, at the 12th fret, I'm between ¼ and ½ step out on the octave. I rarely play past the 7th/9th fret anyway. Where do you recommend tuning the guitar from? I'm thinking somewhere around maybe 3rd, 4th or 5th fret instead, just to balance the out of tuness as I go up the neck?? I appreciate any tips or advice you're able to pass on. Cheers 🙂
Reply to your gauge question. Elixir PB HD Light gauge {.013.017.025.032.042.053}. It's my favorite gauge for six string guitars now. I normally favor 17" LBW (lower bout width) Jumboes, but I first ran across HD gauge some years ago when I got a Taylor Grand Concert 15" LBW. Basically Medium trebles over Light bass. It is now my favorite six string gauge as long as the guitar likes it. And it helps balance the sound, especially on rosewood Jumboes. I have had an Alvarez Jumbo AJ60S (LBW 16.3") going on 20 years now. It likes Light gauge {012-.053} the best. And with the Medium trebles, it is an easy gauge to down-tune to DADGAD too. With a little extra rumble from the bass string.
What wonderful video full of useful information. After a many years lay off of playing my guitars, at 64 years old I have started back at it. I wish I had this information in my 20s. I would have been such a better musician.
Thanks for the video. I have an 1980's Sigma 12 string that I rescued from an antique store. First one I've had since I was in the army in '72. My question is would it be safe to use D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings at standard pitch or is it still better for the guitar to tune down?
@@GWGuitarStudio I do notice the hand also. Trying to do the chords to Sundown the way Gordon Lightfoot did it, E5 & B5, was pretty tough for me to get a clean sound on. Funny detail is that after watching your video I went to drop a full step on my 12 string and broke a string. So now I have ordered the D'Addario 9-45 extra light strings. Thank you for your video's. Very helpful.
On "Crow River Waltz" Leo tunes his guitar down to open-Eb (open-G tuned down 2 whole steps) so the 6th String is a Bb. This was 1972 when he played the B-45.
Yes. I tried tuning down that low and it makes intonation even harder. Here’s me a long time ago playing “Crow River Waltz” tuned down a whole step. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NdOVmr5Tg0E.htmlsi=FDGs3VFz5yUITZC9
@@GWGuitarStudio this seems to be the limit for 10 to 47 string gauge. (I will try the Martin Flexible Core strings you mention in your vid about string gauge)
Thanks. There’s a story behind them. I got the guitar for a really low price, but there was a big chunk missing from the finish-a black guitar with bare wood showing. I repaired the finish, but there were still some imperfections. The pickguard was horribly scratched also, like someone strummed hard with a metal pick. I bought a stickers to distract the eye away from the bad spots. It looked so good, I got the idea to expand it as a theme. Here’s the link to the folks who make them. www.inlaystickers.com
I've been playing since 1967 with intermittent breaks along the way but lately I feel enormous guilt if I don't pick one of my guitars up every day. then I discovered JP Cornier's inspired by Gibson video so I packed my electric guitars in their cases shoved them under the bed.. Then I bought an Epiphone Hummingbird and realised that playing electric guitar alone softens your callouses so that's where the 12 string enters and a whole new world of music opens up before me.
Can you show us some Kotke stuff…Vaseline Machine gun or similar,I’ve learned crow river years ago but only just got a 12er today…cheers.(I learned crow river in E flat open)which I worked out off the record….there was no interwebs then !
I have four Kottke tunes in my set list. “Crow River Waltz” and “The Fisherman” are the ones I do like Leo. The others are vocals, “Louise” and Tiny Island.” Those I have re-arranged to suit my vocal range. I have tried to get “VMG” over the years, but I still have trouble imitating his slide sound.
I wish I would of down tuned my twelve back in the day as the bridge began to pull away and the body bubbled from all that tension. Highly recommend doing this.
Thanks for lesson, just wondering if your Guild 12 string has 2 truss rods. I have played Guilds that have 2 truss rods, and would like to know if all Guilds do. Again, thanks.
Thank you for your brilliant explanation and demo. I’m new to 12 string and just bought an Ibanez acoustic. It’s tuned to standard tuning but I’m thinking of down tuning it to d+ for the added base. I don’t mind playing with a capo if I need to. Good demos. Thank you👌
My Favorite Tuning on the 6 String is DADGAD. So based on that tuning, the music i play which a friend says is Desert Music. Which tuning should i use on a 12 string?
One other thing I do is tune the G B and E strings differently. I tune the octave string on G 7 cents higher and the B and E strings one string 7 cents high and the other 7 cents low. This give it a richer sound on the high strings while downtuning. Apparently this is an old trick from the Nashville people.
I wish you would have played Dead or alive by Bon Jovi. I would have liked to see how you did it with the capo at 2nd fret. I think the D tuning is awesome for the reasons you stated; but for that particular song I think he had it in standard tuning.
I don’t think you’d get that classic Rick sound if you tuned it down. It needs to have flatwound strings, too. Any Rick players out there who can give some advice? I can’t play them-the neck is too skinny!
Just curious but what kind of Guild 12-string is that with hummingbird inlays in the headstock and the unusual pickguard. I have a Guild 12-string made in 1967. I've never seen one like yours. Has it been modified or did the custom shop build it? It looks like the offspring of a Guild and a Gibson.😮
It’s an Asian F2512, which I had customized. It actually had a chunk of the finish missing, which was why I got such a good deal on it. I refinished the section myself and I’m not so skilled in that department. The rest was added to distract from my shortcomings. It sounds great, though!
You might have to fool with the G string a bit to get the proper tone. I tried 8 cents on the B and E strings and it did not work. I have been as low as 4 cents and it still has a good deep sound. But 7 cents up and down seems to be the majic number.
I've been playing 50yrs, but never took 12 string serious. I recently bought a Guild, from China, but some questions. Is it always hard to play by the nut? I can still return it, don't know what to do. I'm a player, pretty good. I miss not fingering like I'm used to. Tuning down help?
I bought a Takamine 12 string in 1976, I was 16. It did look like a Martin. I think Martin sued Takamine for copying their guitars. I have a D’Angelico 12 string now. Among 4 Les Paul’s and 3 Stratocasters, a Rickenbacker 12 string that is based on Pete Townsends Rose Morris Rickenbacker.
@@GWGuitarStudio I just have a 12 string martin dx2e coming in the mail and wanted to make sure I didn’t damage it. I’m sure it’ll hold up fine between DADGAD and D standard which are the two tunings I plan on primarily using it for. Thanks
Sure. Just make sure the truss rod is adjusted for proper neck relief if you’re going to keep it in that tuning. If you change for just a song or a set and go back, that’s fine without adjusting it.
Maybe if you use heavy strings, they have minus bass frequences extra normal note, because they want a lot of tension to be in tune. If you use light strings you're early on tune you want, and you have more bass frequences because the string doesn't have big tension
It’s always a trade-off. High tension is fine if I’m just strumming G, C, and D chords. If l’m doing athletic Kottke-style stuff, it takes lower tension.
So I’m Confused, isn’t it bad to be playing in standard tuning because of the strain in the neck and it can bend the neck? If so, why do you have one in standard tuning, isn’t that somewhat dangerous or harmful for your guitar?
Depends on the guitar and the string gauge. Some are built to withstand concert pitch. Others, it’s better to tune down. It’s harder to play in standard. Some songs or techniques benefit from lower string tension.
You missed the point of the whole video. It’s about having options. Being dogmatic about tuning takes away many options, which are discussed in-depth. At full pitch, there is no Leadbelly, no Pete Seeger, no Leo Kottke.
If you grind down a whole step can’t you just users capo to get in the key as standard timing but still have lower string tension and better playability??
You can order packs of individual strings on Amazon or Guitar Center’s page. Just make note of what the string gauge is from the set and order extras. I keep packs of .009s or .010s handy.
I have a double neck chinese paul copy. I still have the strings that came with it on it. But do have .008 and .009 guages for the 2 different 12 strings. My Paul copy i will put my .009s on it . I have a Cozart 12 string strat and ill use the .008s for it. I thought about getting a acoustic 12 string but have voted against it. These work for me.
Yea, like Don below, I had my first 12 back in the day and always kept her 2 steps down. And I focused on those open chords, beautiful. It was a Suzuki (gorgeous!)... and got stolen :( Now looking for another just to use for backing to some of my proggy stuff :) Thanks for your your informative video.
