I am very curious to see how long these TMS effects last on you. Also, by the descriptions you give about your OCD symptoms, it seems like you have purely obsessive OCD. Is this a fair assessment? My OCD is very compulsion heavy so this might be another factor for how well TMS works
Great video Tim! Just a quick note to say I think the other guy is confused. You can't buy TMS devices on amazon, nor do they cause skin burns. Pretty sure he is thinking of TDCS (transcranial direct current stimulation) which is a completely different form of tech.
Specialist here in muscular activation and nervous system regulation. All therapies are, at their core, likely an attempt to help people shift nervous system states. Whether it is EMDR, TMS, etc, the goal is to take the nervous system out of a fight/flight modulation, and into a more regulated state. All therapies can be effective, though some people will respond better to some than others. Somatic therapy is another direction, which has been incredibly effective for some people. So if we understand that the real goal to attaining improved mental health is to shift our nervous system state, than how exactly can we go about doing this? This is the problem and it is often misunderstood. The brain doesn't WANT to shift nervous system states, because the brain put us into the fight/flight state in order to protect us (some level of trauma response) in the first place. So to regulate the system is to do something that the brain deems UNSAFE. This is why so many different modalities of therapy will create guarding/protection responses. This is also why people will try breath work and respond with panic attacks. Responses post therapy can be as varied as headaches/chronic fatigue/emotional instability/physical tension/pain/instability to sleep etc. Figuring out a way to send signals of safety to the brain, while understanding the rate of adaptability the nervous system needs in order to allow this change to occur without guarding is essential in this process. I have written a few articles on this topic, and they can found by searching for atheq system. Hope everyone finds the answers they are looking for!
I am always in fight/flight due to CPTSD. A few times I relaxed deeply using certain techniques. It felt unsafe to be that relaxed. I was like damn if something happens I will be too slow and not see it coming and thus vulnerable. The world just seems too dangerous for that shit, thats what it felt like.
Yes, and I feel the reason why so many people are struggling right now is because we are living in a time of immeasurable stress. We are out of sync with the natural world and are completely overwhelmed and under supported. We aren't meant to work as much, deal with so much trauma, pay attention to unending catastrophes and raise our families without the help of multiple generations under one roof or a tight knit community. I've never known so many people that typically held it together in the past now truly having a challenging time. It's not just our diets and lifestyle that cause issues. It's the system we live in being so dysfunctional. We can add meditation or medication to our life but if the bills keep piling up and the news keeps coming it might not be enough. It's really a wild time to be alive.
Here! HERE!! So well said!! This is ME and sooo many others. Now throw in residual trauma from abusive parents, isolation, abandonment, and you got yourself the SHIT SHOW we are currently drowning in.
@@DivineLogos Not surprising at all to have that response. Relaxation would be the opposite of the fight/flight response, and the brain/nervous system chose to engage it in the effort to protect from threat/perceived threat. This is the paradox of trying to reset your fight/flight system. Turning it off can register as "unsafe", thus any relaxation feels unsafe. There are ways to overcome this, but that is beyond the scope of a youtube comment.
As a psych nurse I can’t say enough about TMS myself having personally had it for anger/rage depression. I’m happy to say I haven’t needed a psych med since then. I still feel my feelings and feel more content overall. I recommend this to my patients as well.
I had TMS in 2017 at a certified clinic. I have suffered with Major Depressive Disorder (resistant depression) for 20 years. Treatment was 25 days for 20 mins a day at a cost of $10,000. My insurance covered 90% of treatment because I met the requirements (being on at least 4 different anti-depressants). Although Tim states many things correctly, DO YOU OWN research. TMS ONLY worked 11 months for me. Also, treatment for MDD only works for 1 in 3 people. I lost a lot of short term memory after that 11 months. It has never returned. Fortunately, I found a Dr (who has practiced 40 years) with women and depression. She prescribed a anti-depressant for me I had never been on. It started working in 10 days...that was over a year ago. My life is full again!!
Tim, I want to say thank you in advance if you’re reading this. There is something I have noticed over the years and it’s your memory. You have a great capability of having fluid conversations for extended periods while passing on so much information. I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, PTSD, with a dash of dyslexia myself and I’ve become aware at the age of 46 that my working memory may not function very well in contrast to other brain functions. Even more concerning I’ve been able to recognize that after a few traumatic events and a couple of nervous breakdowns over the last few years has changed the way I have conversation. I have rooted in emotion rather than logic and mindfulness. It’s prominent and recognizable to me when I analyze your conversations that I just talk with our relaying anything besides my anxieties. I’ve had people joke that it’s because I’m a father now, but I now understand it’s because I’m a knuckle dragger. My banter aside I just wanted to say that I appreciate your research and your willingness to share it with us. After becoming a father my time is spent a lot differently than it used to be as I had the time to do my own research and educate myself. Switching gears on you here, I’m curious when you’re going to be writing The 4hr language learning guide? Or it would be amazing to see your art work and illustrations published. Personally I see the value in that. Stay safe, Stay healthy bro.
Crazy that two of my close relatives have tried this therapy extensively in one of the best clinics around, and neither of them had tangible results. At the start they noticed some small changes but quickly went back to baseline, keeping in mind there may have been some placebo effect because they both truly believed in the science behind it and were sold on it (enough to spend a small fortune). I guess everyone responds differently, but hypnotherapy has achieved far superior results for a fraction of the time, money, and effort.
I'm a Hypnotherapist. I truly wish people knew of the amazing benefits! I worked with a paralyzed woman who eventually could open and close her hand after just 2 weeks!
Tim sat next to my ex on a flight heading to Peru, both of them to do ayahuasca, and no matter how many times I seen people do that, if they don’t do the work when they get back, and integrate properly, they fall back into the same old habits.
Very true. So here is what I am doing - getting a little high on mushrooms every single day. Not like a hallucinatory high but enough to feel it. So I'm basically mini-dosing every single day on mushrooms and getting a high. This is not recommended, but It's been a few months and the changes are supremely more magnificent vs doing micro-dosing (sub perceptual) or one big trip every 1 to 2 weeks, or even the combination of micro-dosing plus one big trip every few weeks. I think this is the way to do it to truly ingrain what you want long term. After one big trip I'd be back in the same habit and mindset after not even a week. This is definitely not recommended but it's working for me tremendously.
Yup. Many people get ‘addicted’ to psychedelics when they equate insights for actual growth. So they don’t face the challenges, they run to psychedelics for ‘wisdoms’
@@JohnGeranien Well I would call the addiction more so returning to a therapist over and over and over and over and over again It's the same thing really. It's not a physical dependency. If you're good then you won't go to a therapist...
I work in MRI with HUGE superconductive magnets. It's common knowledge in the MRI world that it causes short term memory loss. It has not been documented but every single MRI tech will tell you it's true. So there is that if you want to try this. Frankly I can and have lived with STM loss for years so it's a trade off. I just have to write lots of reminders and notes and just let it go if I don't remember something.
@@4thorder there is no protection besides staying out of it. I don't know if it's permanent, there have been no studies. But I know that on the weekends or vacations I can think clearer and get more things done.
@@anniesshenanigans3815 well, I am sorry you have to experience that. We need to take better care of our healthcare professionals. The fact that there are no studies, and it's a known issue, says a lot.
@@anniesshenanigans3815this is not at all the same thing as MRI, and lol all the MRI techs swear that we all have a medically diagnosable condition. 😂😂😂
I did standard (5 days per week for 7 weeks) rTMS in Athens, Greece last year. Life-long, treatment resistance depression. It was nothing short of miraculous. Life-changing. It did not last, but I have not gone back for maintenance treatments due to a lack of funds. The cost was €3000. The minute I save the money to go back, I will.
Have you ever considered a low carb diet like keto or carnivore or some kind of breath work like the Wim Hof method? Both are clinically proven to massively reduce symptoms of MDD, in some case studies even cure it completely (although that's the exception, not the norm), and they don't cost anything.
@@Queef_Storm I have gone keto but without results. I was doing it pretty dirty though. Too much stress trying to stay on it. I’ve pretty much set my mind on going back for TMS and then building from there with further treatment for ADHD
I'm so surprised that Tim has never done Neurofeedback! It's amazing and can help so so much! We are lucky enough to be changing people's lives without any risk of long term damage like TMS might have. We are so appreciative for TMS but neurofeedback has less risk involved. Changed our lives and no side effects. Also be careful and see a really qualified and credible practitioner as always
@@yoyoma17There are neurofeedback practitioners that you can pay to administer the treatment, or you can purchase equipment yourself and get trained how to use it. I chose to purchase equipment and learn how to use it so I could treat my children for their ADHD, OCD, anxiety/depression. I think it's good to use in conjunction with professional counseling. If you don't want to invest the time/money in doing it yourself, find a reputable practitioner in your area.
Are you an expert in anything at all to qualify to dismiss this so easily? People also didn’t believe in antibiotics at first either. Keep your mind closed and see how far you continue to not get…
I’d say you are gullible one! Believing you already know more than rest of the world. I prescribe a major dose of humility so will quit embarrassing yourself.
I did neurosurgery anesthesia in the very early days of physician assistants…. Saw this coming decades ago and his statement “less productive” is massively significant. His speech is slower and he looks a bit high and definitely has far lowered filters. Thank you for the excellent interview. Until we truly understand how the brain works AND can clinically prove things it is far better to be self controlled. Work on being the best you possible.
What the hell are you talking about? This is a completely non-invasive stimulation of a small part of the brain. His is an accelerated course, but overall the treatment has no significant side-effects, after large numbers of clinical trials. Lol
Cerebral Spinal fluid pressure and balance issues is of paramount importance for the balance of the hemispheres of the brain which affects the Ionic gradients of the inner surfaces of the 3rd and 4th ventricles. A blockage of the Foramen of Monroe or congestion of the spinal canal due to cervical spondylosis, all the psychiatry will only be palliative therapy. How we breathe is really important.
Well I have normal pressure hydrocephalus from aqueductal stenosis went undiagnosed for 20 yrs. shunt put in like 2012 removed in 2023 bc was over draining for at least 2 yrs. now I haven't had a shunt for a year since the last one got mrsa infection. Bc these worthless Drs that don't listen to me my scoliosis is now 60° curve I have chiari now also have trigeminal neuralgia and anesthesia dolorosa. I prayed about it was told that hypocretin/orexin was causing me to still be disabled even with a shunt. Apparently I'm gonna have to find an attorney to get these dumbasses to replace my shunt without going another 3 mos repeating tests I don't fuckin need..I had one neurosurgeon that actually cared but of course moved 3 hours away from me. I mean wth guys 30 yrs of my life have been robbed from me (I was A student love calculus geometry statistics.. but couldn't get thru college cuz of disability so now I have to suffer so much mentally physically financially 😢
Please seek treatment in your area! I had regular TMS (not the newer accelerated TMS). Medicare and most insurances cover it!!! It runs about $1,500 without insurance. It's not accelerated so it takes 36 sessions over 6 weeks. I was severely or moderately depressed for 30 years, with treatment resistant depression. After one round of TMS I am completely depression free. Zero side effects. No memory loss. I have my life back. Medicare, Medicaid, and other insurances do pay for boosters if you had a good response to the first round. I believe boosters are paid for after 3 or 6 months but I've never had to have a booster. I had the TMS over 2 years ago and I am still depression free. It is cheaper and more ubiquitous than Tim Ferris is talking about if you can do the long version. The accelerated version will be cheaper and covered by insurance once the protocols prove to be effective. Please seek out help in your area. It does work. The results were so good that the tech who gave me the treatments got the treatments herself. Neurostar and BrainsWay are both approved by insurance.
TMS completely destroyed my life … I lost all talents and skills I had as if forgotten and any ability to relearn them was destroyed.. my mind is emptied … i may have escaped my overthinking but i would take that back in a heartbeat compared to the dead mind i have now and ridiculous sleep no dreams no rest waking to anxiety can hardly breath but do not care as zero motivation to ever move … no happyness anymore … i remembered the last time i experienced happyness looking out the window of train on way to TMS listening to music … im basically dead now wish i could suffer like before with feeling and thoughts and hope
I am sorry to hear that. Personally I consider EM interventions in the brain (not EM sensing like MRI) a modern knifeless lobotomy, or at least a procedure that is actually problematic. I hope that you can find hope again.
@@Santa-ny1yp Unfortunately medical intervention does not work like critical systems design: the expectations of therapy from the medical side are more of a religion than science.
@@sfg206 ? this is fact … i had ECT treatment 18 times in mental hospital in 1996 but this was nothing compared to the crazy bad effects i had from the TMS treatment for depression which cost me 1000 pounds and was 6 different days of 20 minute sessions
I did TMS therapy but after a while it really hurt so I switched to Keto Medical Therapy and exercise and mediation/breathing disciplines. Initially it helped a lot.
TMS will only ever be temporary. The issue is metabolic. Your nutritional precursors determine the resonance field within your brain. Change the way the brain metabolises energy, and you change the resonance field type from within. Delta is easy when you have the correct precursors.
The ONLY thing that has ever worked for me is jogging for over an hour 4-5 times a week, as well as going to bed every night by 9:30 pm. I have to stick to it for it to keep on working. Oh, and eating plenty of fruit; without enough vitamin C I get depressed, too.
All somatics with an emphasis on breath will be powerful to the nervous system. Yoga included, specifically because of the need of physical strength and also the focus on breath. But if yoga was the answer, yoga would alleviate all depression for everyone. It does not. So yoga for some, can be a door into which they help regulate their nervous system. For others, they may need another door, but the question is HOW to regulate the nervous system out of that "fight/flight" state (depression and anxiety both being often driven by state of stress, equating to a direct reflection of nervous system state)
My experience: Had my first depressive eppisode when I was 10 y/o. Last time was when I was 55 y/o. I probably had significant depressive episodes (mild-moderate) on 10 occasions. i did a heroic dose of mushrooms, and started watching my gut biome and doing keto diets. I've nad ZERO additional episodes of depression. I'm now 68 y/o. I'm questioning your motivation. You make a living doing this media thing. TMS? Please be careful. I wonder if you've not gone over the edge. I've been following you since way back in your career, but not as much lately.
The cost for TMS, as well as the amount of time needed for recommended number of sessions, is prohibitive for most (and unless one is VERY well insured) probably not covered by insurance.
Running towards something, or running away from something... Aha. It seems that we humans will go to great lengths to avoid facing our deepest pain. Old trauma. But wait. What happens if someone does resolve deep trauma? Do they end up liberated? Or left dysfunctional, because they grew up compensating due to trauma, and that's all they know. That's how their systems run...
it takes a lot of courage to face childhood trauma late in life. You have to not only face the truth and process it, but you have to let go of the years you spent coping, repressing, self-medicating, etc and make peace with the lost time. The Devil always there in your head with negative self-talk the whole time. It's at one time the worst thing in the world, but also an opportunity for spiritual/inner growth and strength some people won't ever experience or know. The choice is up to the individual and that responsibility is what I think scares people if they are in therapy. Most things in today's world have a blueprint and we are very focused externally on others, so when it comes down to someone's unique experiences and situation it's impossible to have an exact blueprint for that person's road to recovery. That's when people give up out of resignation because it can feel scary, lonely, like no one understands, etc. Then it's back to the old routine/loop. I do daydream about tech like Neuralink and it's future potential for borderline telepathy and it's use cases in psychology, but that's pretty far out from now.
My guess is that vagus nerve stimulation to teach the fight flight freeze response to calm down, or to stop the inflammation of the vagus nerve nerve will help with post resolution of trauma. Meditation, if you can do it ( hello ADHDers I get you) helps to do the same thing. A friend of mine who has done several Vipassana retreats and she has changed so much. So much calmer. Even her startle reflex is really calm.
There are better things in life than trauma. Like - worshipping the source. Being present. Exploring nature. High strangeness. Who needs trauma to keep going? People who don't know about the honey.
Would be curious about how it compares to neurofeedback, which I understand that Tim used and I also have. NFT has been tremendously helpful. I'm probably due for another round!
I’ve been getting those super confabulated treatments in Eastern Europe for at least 8 years , at least 10x treatments 1x year. Each treatment is ~$10 after diagnosis which costs around $80. They can be done not only on your brain but also on various body parts. It’s like a tuning to me. In the US, we tend to want to make a shit ton of money off of a new fad, so I expect a lot of 4- hour sleep gurus talking about these for a while. Tim, do you sleep 4-hours a night?
You can do it in China. Very high level treatments. MRI is around 3500rmb and the sessions cost 2800rmb. (Total, not each). And its a dope holiday. Shanghai has it.
Not to say this proposed treatment doesn't have any value, but I'd put my faith in shamanism. Shamanism gets into the root of why you are the way you are, which is difficult to almost impossible to figure out yourself since we're so great at masking our true self, burying our problems versus tackling it head on while it's at a manageable size. I believe this is the root cause of anxiety and depression. It eventually catches up to you as you age and eventually grows into this giant beast that is too controlling and overpowering. But there's another special element that Shamanism provides that this treatment he talks about lacks, - you can't tackle it alone. You need to be connected. Think about that.
This may negatively affect IQ… crystallized intelligence will be fine but short term memory recall and manipulation may be hindered. It might be best to recommend this to groups in the ages with lower neuro-plasticity: ages 30 and up.
Good idea to have a healthy diet and exercise and talk therapy FAR before trying something like this. Natural is always better and it’s far more natural for us to be moving the body a lot more than we typically do in the world we currently live in. Messing with your brain with things like this or pharmaceuticals could ruin your life to where you can’t ever get back to healthy good luck out there
Took me 10+ years to truly permanently solve my back issues. Healing is a journey, and it is not linear. We should always be looking for the next great thing/discovery to help us on our journey.
Nope. They are also developing Head-Only MRI machines. The costs will come down significantly. There are a bunch of countries that are already doing it.
Classic error. Tim about to explain something critical and interviewer interrupts cause he is in his head and not listening. Interviewing is hard, but if you want to be good...
He is snake oil salesman...but he believes he is honest. I totally get his style. He is like a seemingly sincere french serial player. I would know the type haha😂
You can't fix the source code in your mind with this. Because the Bible is the original source code. We have been led to believe that science and clinicians and science writers etc. have the answers. If you have ever done any coding or work on software projects, you understand that all that matters is the code. But in order to design the code, you have to imagine what you want the outcome to be. We have so much information people are sifting through that the source code is corrupted. And now we have people coming up with Gimmicks and tricks like the one above to fix it. What people need a good imagination and the Bible and logic and reason. God works in mysterious ways... Trust it, the scientific mind will never get to the conclusion that God exists, it can't because it's the mind of man that is trying to understand the Mind of God. If you are an admirer of Einstein maybe you will understand this quote in the context above. "Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details." Good luck, Good Bless.
I think his intent behind that message was to prevent people from committing harm… They would be amateurs messing with the their own or someone’s brain. Negative consequences for that are self evident…
I think it’s about the theme of fixing, finetuning himself. That’s what he’s known for. Contentment, joy is from knowing and believing one is enough. The thing with Western values is that you gotta get more this more that all the time. Sure, more innovation but you pay with contentment. It’s not easy though. Tim opened up about his childhood traumas and depression, so for him to get to this point of success it’s still a huggge achievement
@@Draziell I know his story, he is struggling alot and this is not about optimization as you would like to think, I mean he said it himself right now that he has been struggling with OCD and depression even after a lifetime of retreats, therapy, psychedelics and everything in between. How come that everytime he preaches a modality for depression or something, few months later he preaches another modality that is "most impressive" and how he is cured and then again and again. That alone should speak of itself about how he is doing. After, it depends if you get it or not about this guy but you can see that he needs to be very much in control of what he says all the time, this is not natural nor healthy, he is a thinker for sure, in the way that he lives more in his head than anywhere else. Not to mention that, but this is something that I ve developed to recognize, it is about his eyes, not only his eyes, his look/gaze. I can tell alot about that. Especially the level of dissociation(between thought and emotion or between body/mind or between reality/mind) is significant for him. That's why you can see that he doesn't react naturally to intreruptions, jokes, he is way too much in his head. He is protecting himself from the world with his excessive cognition. It s clear that the he has his own way of being distant from the world and from himself. But if you observe his speech and gaze you can tell. There is more but this is the idea. He is a good kid, this is not a judgement, but he probably needs someone much better and skilled to help him or maybe he needs more time but yeah It is obvious that it's not really working out for himself. I think that it again comes down to speech and his true self/feelings but this guy has done quite alot so his trauma might be too overwhelming still, though to think so but it might be so.
The issue with males is they don't experience life as a woman does, he doesn't change, he just deteriorates, whereas a woman has 3 stages of life and it changes her dramatically each time. The male stories are not complete.
