“We have $2M…Why can’t we retire?” 

00:00 Download the Conscious Spending Plan so you can use your money GUILT-FREE: iwt.com/csp-youtube Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.

Am I the only one who's wondering why they're hiring a coach for $30k, when they could get a licensed counselor or social worker for a fraction of the cost? Not to mention coaches are not required to have any formal training. Coaches are a great tool and are great with practical problems. But I don't think they're the smartest choice when it comes to diving into your childhood.

Ramit, I appreciated this couple SO much. Thank you for taking the time to unpack the details of their situation, past and mindset across the two episodes. The point of life they are at is a scary time with so many unknowns and little time for margin for error. It can be really immobilizing. I loved that you did the scenario planning because now they can make conscious choices with eyes wide open about the next chapter of their life. Thank you Rob and Adrienne for openly sharing your story, I was so inspired by your journey and what you accomplished together. May you enjoy what you've worked so hard for. Best wishes for a joyful, healthy and generous retirement.

$30k for a year of a coach is a scam. They should get a couples therapist covered by insurance and a financial advisor instead.

I have a similar concern. But in my case, retiring with only $500k in investment accounts, I'm afraid that my portfolio will not sustain a long retirement. My fund is likely to be depleted from expenses faster than it can recover by compounding returns

I found Rob's fear relatable as someone who is almost 42 and thinking 18 years into my future like he was. This was a good reminder to get some of that fear addressed now, and not to expect 18 years of hard work to also instantly fix that fear when I'm 60.

This part 2 was worth the wait! I really liked their follow-ups. While they were feelings based, that is exactly where they needed to be. It wasn't a dramatic aha moment on camera, but life rarely works that way. I hope they get some couples counseling too. For Adrienne, I think people are being a bit hard on her. Being a massage therapist is physical work and it's not so easy to do at 59. (It can also be emotionally taxing if you're not able to let other people's stress flow by you.) Non-essential physical contact during COVID was limited, which meant that she could not work. You can't give a massage over Zoom. It's also demoralizing to bring in no income and have snippy fearful comments made about any spending of money that wasn't pre-approved. I heard an undertone of "she's spending my money that I earned." I'll allow that I could be reading too much into it. For Rob, as odd as it may seem, the fearful place is the comfortable place. What would he do without the familiar cloud of fear? He'll have to be responsible for the next proactive action. What if it's wrong? Better/Easier the fear you know than the fear you don't know. Counseling will help move past that. Ramit is right that they won't manage any of it unless they get on the same page about what specifically their rich life looks like. For myself, as a single person, I'm thinking about an aha moment I had in this episode: I'm both the dreamer and the dream-crusher. Hmm. Got some work to do, I guess.

She's in a "coaching" MLM.

Regular watcher here…this couple was inspiring. Seeing people closer to retirement, how they actually got there, and seeing the three plans to ensure they retire comfortably for their goals was great! Thank you 🙏🏻. Hope to see more people like this on the show.

Dang our boy Ramit broke thru 500k Subs! Let him coooook 🎉 next stop 1 Mil club!

Talk about perfect timing. Let's wrap this story up!

I was surprised that Ramit didn't challenge the $30k coaching (which he doesn't think is ideal) vs. counseling which would be a fraction of the cost and more ideal. I was also surprised that he apparently didn't model a withdrawal plan with guardrails that would ensure that they never run out of money. Isn't the option to spend less than $30k/year traveling in years when the market was down better than having to work 20 hours a week or working until age 70 if they want to be retired? WTF?

Interesting part1.part2 episodes. I don’t love that all the income generation on the scenarios are all up to him. She wants to be really generous but made no solid commitment to help them get there over the next 3 years, which makes their rich life attainable. I wish there was more pressure on her to commit to a number. Have to finance that generosity in some way. Right now they can’t afford it.

I early retired on 1m and headed to SE Asia. Go where your money works hardest for You. Im living Very well

This was by far my favorite 2 episodes. I appreciate the honesty and wish well❤

I’m really curious about the type of coaching the wife is doing that involves retreats and doesn't generate any foreseeable income. To me, that sounds suspiciously like an MLM scheme. It’s quite concerning that all the financial expectations are placed on the husband, while the wife's contribution is minimal at best.

She had a great question about the rule of 72 at 18:41 that I wish was answered because not many people fully understand how it works. Yes, the rule of 72 applies when you are not adding more money into the market. It actually assumes you don't take money out or put more money in. If you have 2M and don't do anything with it, it would double in about 10.28 years (assuming a 7% return, 72/7=10.28). If you put more money in, it will grow even faster and if you take money out, it will grow slower.

The book Die With Zero helped wrap my mind around spending money and WHEN to spend it for your richest life. Contrary to the title, it doesn’t not mean not giving generously, but it mean not leaving it all for your death to leave it to heirs or charities. It stresses giving when it makes the most impact. For example, your children receiving a sizable sum in their 20’s-40’s (down payment, student loan repayment, childcare etc) could have a massive impact vs inheriting money in their 50’s-70’s when they are already on their way to their own retirements. This couple could learn a better plan for WHEN and how to spend.

How do they just gloss over that first cost analysis chart where their nest egg goes from 1.1 million at age 90 and then plummets to negative 100k 5-7 years later?!?! They don’t even question it…. That makes no sense even with health care costs. Yet in all the other analysis charts the drop is considerably less. Odd it’s not even addressed or noticed 🤷🏻‍♂️

I wonder if that 30k coach thing is the one shes "working" in. How much does it cost to keep working

I wish we'd gotten more information about the assumptions that went into those Facet calculations. It doesn't make sense that with a $2 million nest egg and a $60K/year lifestyle, you'd run out of money even if "the market does well." It looks like they're assuming nothing from Social Security and some astronomical long-term care expenses.

What a long and boring ad for Facet which ultimately did not cast the product in a favorable light. Typically, when companies sponsor podcast episodes, these are released as bonus content. There are clear indications that Adrienne is involved in a "coaching" MLM, and it was quite disappointing that Ramit didn't explore this further. Instead, he concentrated on Rob's "fears." Rob has every reason to be concerned and yet his attention is on the wrong thing-the MLM threat is already present and it will suck up every penny it can get from them.

If you didn't notice this episode is brought to you by and is an ad for Facet lol. The first chart makes no sense, how do you go through $1.2 million in 7 years with full social security after only using at a much smaller rate, unless the scenario assumes a market crash in 30 years. These are dumbest scenarios and doing a disservice to tell these people to keep working when they are not even spending the 4% and this doesn't seem to even include social security. Obviously hard to rate this without seeing the details but the large drop at the end I don't get why that happens and I did financial scenarios for a living for 30 years. I hate that he feels bad now about being in such a strong position. I do see the rainbow and I hope they see it as well.

Your debt to investment / savings ratio is what should determine your ability to retire, in my opinion. Followed by the consideration of your annual lifestyle cost and your ability to lower it to maximize the duration of your portfolio value and align the time horizon with your expected lifespan. There’s never going to be a set number that will eliminate the anxiety of retiring. Plan, take action, and accept the only finish line to race to is the one you set for yourself. Don’t let the unknown of the future deter you from enjoying the present!

I'm thankful to Adrienne and Rob for sharing their finances and story with us, I learned so much from this episode. Ramit, could you explain why in the projections their network plummeted so quickly in their last 10 years of their life expectancy? Is the cost of nursing home really that expensive in this country?

That chart was confusing, how do you have 1.2 million at 90 and then 7 years later you are in the negatives? What am I missing?

I didn’t understand a few things - did the chart of retirement include social security ? - why couldn’t there be an option of where they both work ?

I really appreciated the conversation with this couple. Ramit gave them so much time and patience and effort, and I think Rob really showed a lot of progress in his reflections. But the way Adrienne talks about it I think is just not concrete enough and i think they will continue to struggle to really understand each other when communicating

I feel bad for Rob that all the income generation expectations seem to be on him.

I personally would be worried with $2M for 2 people in retirement. $1M each does not leave much room at all for extravagance, especially once they get to the age where they need assisted living (which becomes the extravagance in itself).

As others have stated, I do not find this a great advertisement for Facet. I realize they might not want to reveal any of their secret sauce and/or Ramit may not want to spend time going into the nuts and bolts but there are simply too many questions around the charts for them to be confidence building. The average life expectancy is 75 & 80 and they're projecting out to 97 & 94 which is 35 years from now? No explanation for the assumptions around the drop at the end or how long they assume they'll spend 30k/yr traveling, etc. Perhaps those conversations/questions were edited out to save time but it does not serve to boost confidence in Facet. Not that I care about Facet being successful but I do care about your channel Ramit 😉

Nice episode, I have listened to all your episodes, this one makes me think how much more would I need for retirement, if at 62 years old, and almost 2 million in assets and the 1st option of getting retired now, would seem scary to me. Could you explain/expand in what kind of situation would this be enough? Or why isn't it "enough" for them?

It takes a lot of courage to face your fears, and to do it on a public platform. I applaud every couple who shares their journey for their own benefit, but also for us to learn from. Thank you!

Contrary to popular belief, boundaries free us up! I remember when we were building our house and we had just completed the framing. It seemed so much smaller than I had envisioned. When the sheet rock went up, the rooms expanded! I realized that I restricted my vision without hard boundaries.

Great job Ramit! The 2 episodes felt like you were churning butter to get them to see the light. Their follow up showed the light bulb finally came on. Hopefully they follow thru and enjoy their rich life.

Fear of criticism is what keeps me from seeing doctors and financial advisors and probably a bunch of other professionals

I somehow still understand why Rob is anxious. Some if it is but not all if it is mental

I'm confused about the graphs from Facet. $4,900 per month against $1.97M is only a 3% withdrawal rate. Why does their balance drop steadily, ending in the red, and why is it presented as one single result as opposed to a typical retirement simulation showing all the trajectories based on retiring each year in market history? And the example of working part-time til 70, the curve just runs flat for decades then drops off sharply? It doesn't make sense based on literally every planning tool I've seen, including the conservative ones from brokerages like Fidelity.

With all due respect, this couple is quite exhausting and frustrating to watch. I'm only halfway through this episode, and it's ROUGH. Fingers crossed that they end on a positive note. *EDIT - In the end, I think they'll be fine, BUT I think they will need to slightly scale down their large gifts to family since it doesn't seem as though her coaching business will take off and he's not able to get more billable hours at work.

LORD not the life coach scam oh my god. I don’t blame him for being stressed his wife is a nutcase lmfaoooo 30k$??? Just go to someone licensed, not your friend from the “community” who took a course online 💀💀

A bit frustrating to watch all that free floating anxiety and fear through both episodes but the updates showed they learned a lot from the conversation and are doing a lot of work on themselves beyond their money worries.

Great question regarding the rule of 72. You must have a Rate of return of know how many years it takes for your money to double!!!! 🤓

This was awesome I’m 56 and I loved this it really is realistic just because of the age for me. Great video. ❤

interesting that the $2M would run out at 94/97 if he retired today and they kept their current spending stable. what hope do i have if that is the case?! and it is also really interesting how the investment values drop so precipitously in the last ~10 or so years of life in every model

My husband retired at 50 years old. I plan to retire at 62. I’m working on paying off my bills and saving money. I do have a 401k my husband is excellent with money I have been doing much better with your book Mr Ramit Sethi thanks to you I can succeed 😊

Loving this podcast and binging for the past month+. HOWEVER, this ep ENRAGED me. How was there no discussion about long term care expenses? Thinking anyone can live to a ripe old death without additional costs and services doesn’t understand aging in the USA.

I hope the coaching is more than 2 group meetings and a few one on one sessions per month....otherwise theyre paying like $600/hr.

Where did social security came into place here? I didn’t understand that part. He kept the same income with or without SS. How about her SS?

Does Facit’s calculations (and other retirement calculations) account for inflation?

Lovely and introspective couple! I trust they'll figure it out. I wish them all the best.

Am I right in thinking all 3 scenarios assume they will be spending $30,000 a year for travel? I just don't think they'd be travelling all that much as they get older. So, their nest egg should last longer than predicted.

They are so unquestioning about the underlying assumptions of each scenario and don't factor in that adjustments can be made as needed. This is all a bit manipulative. They and all of us need to prioritize financial literacy and using DIY tools to plan and then seek advisors to refine the plan, particularly for taxes. This is a lot of superficial psychology and too little financial education.

the guy is so disconnected that when Ramit asked 'is there anyone else on the call who can answer that question?' he said, 'we can check the internet'

Please stop normalizing leaving higher and higher tips. The point of a tip is to reward excellent service, not subsidize a business that's paying its workers low wages. Receive excellent service? Then definitely tip 25%, 50%, 200%, whatever you feel called to do. Continuing to increase the expected minimum just results in worse and worse service and entitled service workers.

I wonder if he’s more afraid of dying. Most people don’t live to 92. Why does he have to have 30 years worth of money?

All three retirement scenarios show a drop of over $1M in assets in the last seven years, completely unlike any of the trending for the 28 years prior. That doesn't make sense at all, especially with social security feeding into the later years. These scenarios don't indicate when social security would be taken. Big difference in the analysis in taking at 62 vs. 67 (or 70.) At first glance I'm not impressed with Facet. AND charts and advice like this keep people in fear and quells the desire to retire. With 60-70K in expenses, a $2M portfolio should be just fine for a couple to feel very confident. (Especially with a 50/50 or 60/40 portfolio and a couple years expenses held in cash/MM) And that doesn't even include social security!

For awhile, I struggled with Ramit’s “rich life” concept when talking to couples who didn’t have two nickels to rub together. But with this couple, I get it now. The former need inspiration and this couple can use their money to make their life better yet choose not to. Sad!

I just don’t get these scenarios…since I know people who retired very successfully on much less. Hard to tell without the details, but it seems pessimistic.

In going through the numbers in the length of time to 1 million would last this couple… At any point with long-term care put into the equation? I have been through this more than once and can tell you it gets VERY costly.

I love these podcast videos but as a retired nurse in Ireland I can’t get my head around these rich people’s woes and fretting while they have 2million in the bank! We’re on two pensions (the collective term for all our retirement income). Each of us has the Irish state pension (like Social security I guess) that’s payable from age 66. It’s €277 a week. Goes up annually in the budget by about €12 a week. Also have occupational pensions we paid into during our work life so they give a guaranteed lifetime income. They’re either index linked to the inflation rate or in my case grade linked to my previous post. So they’ll go up all the time. Which is cool. We own our home. And if we need long term care in a home the costs are covered by taking 80% of our income and max of 22.5% of our home value (7.5% x 3 years capped, so the kids’ inheritance isn’t wiped out!). So it’s not a hit on our savings unless we opt for that. We have a good living and travel a lot to visit family and friends. Spent two months in Australia and New Zealand already this year and took a city break in Kraków last month to escape the crap Irish weather. (I should add a caveat - we don’t pay anything for our healthcare or routine dental care as we have cover from the state for public care and we don’t opt for private care as all it does is enable queue jumping and the care in public hospitals is better as there’s more experience there. Also we get subsidies for energy from the government (socialism is cool, right!) as seniors everyone gets a free TV licence and €35 a month off our energy bills. With universal energy subsidies given these past two winters (from €600 last year to €450 this year) to every household in Ireland due to the high costs we haven’t had any electricity costs since last summer. So we’re comfortably cushioned from a lot of US costs especially healthcare seems a nightmare in the US.

Where is social security income - it could be another 50k a year. Disappointingly lightweight on the numbers. Also all the talk about big tips, legacy, sponsorship etc needed talking dow. In fact thinking about the bloke was right to be worrying about $80 cafe expenses - his wife thinks she’s a billionaire.

I like showing some retirement analysis provided by facet but without sharing any real assumptions it doesn’t mean much. For example, we’re not even going to outline the massive amount of long term care expenses that they’re assuming at end of life to make the graph fall off a cliff? That couple has communication issues around money and a fair amount of inequity it seems. Why wasn’t Adrienne working proposed either helping in Robs business or to get a job? Adrienne is very bought into this life coaching thing as evidence by wanting to spend an insane $30k on it. Plus whatever she’s spent herself to learn to be a coach. It’s not easy to start a business and she doesn’t seem to have the drive to go find customers.

This analysis misses so much. With just some spending flexibility which they definitely have the ability to do, $2m would last forever especially with social security. They aren’t spending $30k a year traveling when they are 94. Disappointed.

Adrienne is loathe to stick her oar in the water. She relies on Rob for everything

Interesting conversation. I thought Ramit did a great job fleshing out their communication gaps. I had a hard time understanding how Adrienne wanted to give their retirement savings to her nieces and start a scholarship program for this coaching program she took that makes no money, without contributing financially. It would make more sense to me if her coaching actually generated revenue and she generously gave that money away rather than deducting from their retirement.

Do either of them qualify for Social Security?

2 million with social security is definitely enough

Anyone else surprised/concerned that $2M at their age didnt necessarily fund a long retirement? 😬

Why am I paying for premium RU-vid and still have to listen to ads

I saw the last episode and what was fascinating was the fear the man was trapped in. On one hand, it's understandable. In the scheme of things 2 million is not something you can just infinitely retire on while spending many hundreds of thousands a year. However, he was being careful anyway and the terror was a bit too much, worrying about every cent. Assuming a very conservative 3 percent withdrawal every year, 3 percent of 2 mil is 60k, after capital gains taxes probably 45k. So, he could live on 45k a year indefinitely without even touching the principal and have quite a bit of growth on the actual principal over the years, assuming the S&P 500 growth rate. His income would go up over the years, if he stayed with the 3% rule. Not that he would do that, but having the math and the facts in front of you can give you some relief from the anxiety that it's all going to be gone tomorrow.

Is there a show like this for singles?

I need to know more about this 30k/yr coach! I love your laugh Adrienne…so sweet.

Why can’t she just get a REAL part time job?!?! That seems like the easy fix

What is a coaching business?

Why is no one mentioning how much it would help them overall if she got literally any job?

Any family or couple with reasonable spending habits should absolutely be able to retire on $2M.

I think the couples are kind of humble bragging the rest of us about their money. I could be wrong but I really didn’t sense they have any financial problems or real worries

If they can't manage on being worth $2 mill...there's not a lot of hope for a lot of us 😅

Tipping culture is already out of control…

I don't know where they live but their rent is so affordable. In Southern California, they couldn't live in a house and the place would be small and maybe in a not so safe neighborhood.

So basically she has no income potential, I guarantee she doesn’t want to work. She wants to “coach” anyway she loves hanging out with friends while the husband sits at home stewing. It worked for a while now he’s tightening the wallet to get her attention. Hey , focus on me . Etc . They need marriage counseling as much as they need a financial therapist. This guy is gonna do something drastic one day.

They don't have a car? Or a house? I'd be so scared going into retirement without a paid off roof over my head! I think that's why they're assets are decreasing... They're rent is increasing... $2m investment should be holding their own if their costs were lowered significantly. She needs to get a job.

50:01 if they’re taking out 90k a year how would their investments lost over a million in 7 years? They would withdraw 630k in that time but presumably also continue to accrue modest interest, right??? I’m so confused about the math at the end of the first scenario. Does anyone understand?

none of the tools including these assume you will continue spending at the same rare no matter what. In reality people can adjust their 'rich life" as they go and reassess annually what their ongoing spending should be.

I wonder if they are typing the coach 25% as well. 😅

Ramit: ‘What a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to.’

Everybody wants to be generous, don't we always want to give more? But how? We can only wish but not realistic, no wonder the income earner is worried and concern. The wife is living in a tralalala land.

They live “out in the middle of nowhere” but rent is $2500/mo?

The scenarios are wayyyy too simplistic. Ramit should have shown them the sliding scale type of graph where they could make adjustments to living expenses, retirement age, vacations,etc IF the market is bad. Instead of just saying they run out of money at XX. Also, the scenario should include estimates of social security. This seems manipulative.

His constant fear is really annoying. It's a crutch for his bad behavior. He is controlling her and using his fear as a way to limit her.

I think $2M is a lot of money to retire off of, especially if your spending behavior is in line with being able to manage it accordingly. That's honestly a lot of money if you zoom out, and if you live within your means, I don't see how it would be very difficult. This couple want a lot of things, like we all do, but at the same time, they want to do so much with their money that $2M would not be enough, so it's more of just finding a new source of income to support their desires. At the end of the day, when you have a large number of $2M, there are so many avenues to go about spending it, and even growing it, but it all boils down to behavior and how you look at your money. One thing I can't really agree with, which is fine - you do you as this is just my opinion, but tipping is so out of hand. And hearing Ramit say that "I hate cheap tippers" feels like such a backhand slap to people who aren't in a financial position to tip as much as 25% (as what was said in the video) and actually enjoy watching his content. Honestly you could go on and on about the debate of paying employees more, but the way it was phrased about tipping in this video is like it has become "mandatory" and it sucks. Now I feel like I'm the bad guy for just wanting to tip 5% or 0% for just mediocre service because the guy I enjoy watching (Ramit) says he hates cheap tippers and this comments section isn't a place for "cheap people who complain about tips" (his response to @switchfooted who shared their opinion about tipping). It's crazy, but that's just how the world works. I guess it's just because I grew up in a country where tipping was not even an option your faced with when given the bill to pay. So I feel less inclined to tip in general when I'm being eyed down by the server that just gave me my plate and never came back until it was time for the bill (this happens a lot, at least for me).

Maravilhoso ❤

wait wait why did Ramit facepalm at the r/Bogleheads mention?!

She spent money to get certified as a coach but is not making any money. And now convinced him to hire a 30k/year coach? So impractical. He will definitely have to keep working if that’s how they spend. Also that Facet demo was the worst. Totally random scenarios with lack of proper explanation

Not a “coach” !!!! 😫😫😫

Wtf is wrong with some people lmao they are stressing and dreaming about giving more tips

Oh yeah

Control, controlling dude. Woman needs to learn what is going on in case he becomes incapacitated

If they can’t retire with 2M many Americans are not able to retire.😅

If you factor in Social Security, they will likely have as much or more than they have now