How refreshing - A subjective review by someone that clearly knows how and when to apply measurements to draw conclusions (and when not to). Well done!
I tried all kind of damping boards for my equipment, by nothing were good. I went the opposite way and put heavy 10kg stainless steel plates 330X300x13mm on top of my amplifiers and on my SACD-player. It was a huge improvement in sound quality in the same way Hans described. Now I understand why expensive high end audio components often are so heavy.
you know one thing I love about you Hans is your consistent quality and your ability to not only tell me something but also scientifically show me why that something is beneficial.
as a drummer with experience with moongel, it deteriorates in time (uv light makes it go bad fast) and could make some pretty bad stains depending on the surface .. i'd use two cuttingboards and sandwitch the moongel cause id forget about it in a week and never change out the gels.. hehe. real good video! thx!
I tried the Moon Gel pads under my existing bamboo cutting board which supports my DAC and there was a noticeable improvement in focus and density of the music. The biggest area for me was in vocals. Thank you for the super inexpensive upgrade tip - AUD15 for the Moon Gel
This isn’t typical audio review. The gear rack change can yield stability and that allows you to experiment with either dampening or coupling issues. Flimsy platforms cause a great deal of problems, but you could easily do a video on that alone. There are few inexpensive solutions in audio, but this solution has merit. Well done Hans! Stay safe my mates!😊👍🏻😁I prefer granite to bamboo. The granite is less prone to vibration. If used as a shelf as opposed to a stand alone platform, the granite offers a very stable platform. You may then use isolation feet or ball bearing feet depending on whether the equipment needs isolating or coupling. Experimentation is how we learn. Only then can we find the equipment’s true colors. Stable platform is the starting key. Learning can be fun. Addressing equipment anomalies isn’t snake oil. It’s reality. There are more than one correct answer to problems. The fun comes in learning where the weaknesses are and addressing them. It’s up to the individual to decide what is too much and what is enough!🧐
Thanks Hans! Love a little bit of DIY, especially when it works as good as this! I am using three thin, double layer bamboo boards with two layers of moongel in between them for my Arcam rDAC to sit on. Two small doorstops, 0.7 kg each on top of DAC. This has not only made the bass firmer, more defined and vocals more natural but also opened up the soundstage which became very three-dimensional. I would say this has worked better than expected, and is comparable to upgrading to a higher class DAC.
Ok, so I was excited to try this cheap and cheerful diy trick, as I already had some moongels on hand. Found some small ikea bamboo chopping boards that would fit nicely under my allo digione and my dac. Placed the gels under the boards in the same manner, and wow. I’m noticing serious improvements in microtonal shading, etching, image, low and mid bass clarity. This partly solved some of the issues with resonances effecting clarity in my small listening room. Hans, can’t thank you enough! 🙏🏼
This is a great solution. I put this DIY bamboo board with the moongel under my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable and the result is wonderful. The music sounds more open and you can hear the vocals more clean. Thanks for this super tip.👍
Very nice results. I have always belived in making each component heavier by placing it firmly on something heavy, and isolating the whole system from the ground. Your solution is right along those lines. My large floorstanding speakers rest on 60x30x3 cm slates weighing more than each speaker. Three spikes connect each speaker to the slate. And 6 soft furniture stickers below each slate make them mostly isolated from the floor. I find this solution to greatly improve the sound, especially in the lower bass section. I would really like you to try out this solution. I bought the slates from a stonework shop for about $150 for both.
Hi Hans, thanks for this invention! I put this 'Beekhuyzen board' under my recordplayer and its effect was stunning! My Pink triagle Anniversary/Sme v/van den Hull frog has a very good vertical isolation thanks to the lightweigt subchassis hanging from 3 springs. But your board gives also horizontal damping and that's needed against the soundwaves hitting the player. This results in a rockstable stereo image and also bass. Before cd sounded more stable but now vinyl is the winner. Advised for every recordplayer weighing less then a ton! Thanks for making my 30 years player a winner again. Regards, Gerard A.
Hi Hans! Thanks for pointing out these gel packs. I bought quite a few after I got my turntable on them. I sandwiched them between two 1“ bamboo boards and there’s no noise/vibration transfer now. As to how much weight they can hold, I put 12 packs under a board and put my 45 pound tube amp on it. It works fantastic!
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel just to follow up, the 12 pads under the amp got permanently deformed but are still squishy tho. I added 6 more to it. Everything in my system is now on these pads and it’s really nice. Better than I imagined. For reference, this is what I’m running : Rouge Audio RP-5 preamp Rogue Audio St-100 power amp Rotel RCD 1572 CD player Fluance RT85 turntable Gustard x18 dac Gustard u18 dcc Klipsch Quartet speakers Klipsch SW-10 sub x2 All wired with Krell power cables and blue jeans cable interconnects. Run over a dedicated Powerline.
Hans, this is a most refreshing instalment... in that, I don't have to spend thousands of dollars to perhaps yield an audible improvement. Ironically, I have both the bamboo boards and the same gel (they are frequently suggested in many credible audio forums)... but I have not tried them together. next, should be an A-B comparison of this setup vs. the more expensive purpose-built isolators.
I have Steel Points under my amps, brought improvements. Placed a wooden block with the drum gel pads below and it improved even more. Thank you for this great tip!
I’ve used this (single board 6 pads) to put under my Roksan Attessa turntable which is currently on a pretty flimsy stand until my new one arrives. It’s totally eliminated skipping from heavy footfall. Even when I provoke it by having a good stomp around nearby. Pretty pleased at a mere 24.
Interesting and informative video on hi-fi equipment isolation. I have been aware, but not convinced such tweaks actually work? However, that doesn't stop me from tweaking and testing. Currently, I have only isolated a Denon DP-47F turntable with headphones foam earpads & styrofoam with very good results. (Only mixed the compounds to proper level the turntable) I tend to favor the idea of softer deadening materials over harder solid denser material like wood that can resonate. This video has inspired me to go do further testing and isolation trials with my vintage components. I will be using half inch thick typical packing styrofoam with a stiffening particle board atop. My Sansui AU-D11 ii integrated is heavy enough resting atop glass. It would be further convincing, if you were to use maybe a vibration detector to base your results of isolation scientifically? Often tweaks have a placebo effect at best.
Hi, thanks for your great insight into hi fi audio. Love your channel. As a cheap but very effective anti vibration medium I have found balsa wood works well. Kindest regards Lee
Great video and thanks for the Moongel tip - just what I have been looking for! I have also been experimenting with DIY vibration control using various materials. I think there are actually two problems to solve here: isolation (which this video mostly addresses) and resonance control. The latter I am currently trying to address with DIY damping plates. My latest design is a 6mm thick steel plate with a 6mm thick sheet of cork-nitrile underneath, placed on top of my DAC. I also have similar on top of my SoTM streamer & USB reclocker, but using ceramic tiles and rubber sound insulation plus sorbothane feet which works quite well.
I used Mission isolating platforms on my Sound Organisation hifi racks which had suspended shelves made of a similar shelf material to the Missions. The Missions use Sorbothane between the shelf and the hard plastic " feet". They still work well in reducing vibrations in what is now my set up two. I replaced the stands with Atacama Eris stands with 40mm bamboo shelves made up of 2 layers of side by side layers of bamboo of 20mm thickness . They do an excellent job of damping vibration and passed the Aesthetic Commission. The only problem occurs if you need to use more than 5 items because it can only be extended vertically although the height between the shelves can be changed. As I wished to add another motorised item to set up 2 and only had 3 Mission platforms I decided to try bamboo chopping boards ex Amazon. I bought a similar board to the one you tried i.e. Side by side layers making an approx 22mm thick board. I found this gave little or no improvement over the rack's suspended shelf. I then tried a 420x300x40mm board made of edge- on bamboo like a butchers block. The result was impressive. At least as good as the Mission vibration platform. I will now try the moon gel. Stay well.
Did something similar with granite chopping boards and sticky rubber feet. Worked great under my turntable. Moongel also works well as a stylus cleaner.
Vacuum tubes are susceptible to external vibration effects. The working elements inside the glass may be in a vacuum, but the rest of the tube base, tube socket etc are still all mechanically connected to rest of the world.
Thank you Hans; works like a charm. I tried DiversiTech EVA pads first under a bamboo board because I had them already: it was sensational. Then I tried your way: even better !! For those who have money to burn: get a nice Isoacoustics Delos 2216W1: only € 849,-.
I have tried similar experiments with a board supported by Sorbothene hemispheres or the harder the split aluminium puck with ball bearings in between and as you say equipment reacts differently with some being better with one type or the other. I did find an bigger improvement with my Brooklyn when a weight is applied to the top case. I used a stainless round door stop from Amazon as a lot of other audiophiles.
Thank you for the time and the quality content. I very much appreciate your sharing experiences for the greater good. Am I going to spend a year determining if independent ceiling suspension shelves can be effective and functional ? Or is curiosity going to kill the cat ? Asking for a friend. 😅
Very interesting topic. I just recently started experimenting with vibration control and found very noticeable improvements. So far I've tried Isoacoustics Isopuck and squash balls under my preamp, pre amp power supply, power strip, power amp. I tried various combinations and have to say that squash balls work better for me. I'd like to try your solution, maybe you could try squash balls too. They're quite cheap. The ones I'm using are with two yellow dots. I cut them in half and place them under the components. I also tried using balls without cutting them, but apart from being unstable, they also didn't work as well, I noticed dynamics and high frequency extension were affected negatively. Let me know if you decide to try them!
The problem with cutting boards is that they are kiln dried, this makes them very hard similar to glass or granite. I built a DIY stand using MapleShade’s air dried ambrosia maple wood blocks. Of course used IsoAccoutics Oreas as well. Fantastic sound!
I've used MOONGEL for years on drums. The problem is they dry up. The reason they come in that little case is so you can place them back in it when not is use. Like a humidor for cigars, it also keeps them from drying up. With the added heat generated by the motion of board on top of them this could conceivably cause the drying to happen faster than when just sitting on top of a drum head. Perhaps they'll last a few months and then need to be replaced. Time will tell.
I am not sure if this will work but you may try wrapping the Moongel in clear plastic wrap before use. It would help isolate it from the elements and delay the drying issue.
You could also try sorbothane sheets (various thicknesses) that can be cut and put under the board. I had also used gel pads (under my amp) but unfortunately these disintegrated over time.
Depends on the size, shape ( how you cut it) and durometer of the Sorbothane. Using that material for isolation, and slate for mass, I have derived marked improvements from turntable, phono pre, tube pre and integrated amplifiers and even solid state power amps, as well as DACs and speakers. 80 percent of the improvement of the high-priced spread for < 10-20 percent of the cost = works for me.
I welded up a tripod rack with 4 shelves. Using 1" tube for the vertical and 3/4 " horizontal. Each down tube fille 4 horizontal with sand. The shelves are 3/4 mdf filled with lead shot and sand. Far more detailed and more open doing stage. Cost $65 CDN
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel ty. i stole the design form a $14,000 Italian stand i saw on the net. Mine densest look any where near as good but functionally very close id imagine.
I haven’t gone down this rabbit hole yet (next stop cable risers) BUT i DO use a mix of kitchen Cork Boards, silicon pot stands AND (the I recommend for you to try) dense rubber vibration mats for washing machines. I mostly about speaker vibrations and sound treatment not microphonics. These i use for desk and bookshelf speakers resting on - and for office system- in cabinets. Might try the drum pads. Cheers
Dear Hans - It's really good to see you in a better healthy shape. Little question about the Creaktiv 3-3 Rack - did you order it with filled pipes? I have ordered mine 3 weeks ago - together with an Audio 11 for my turntable in Cherry. in the meantime - I'll start with the renovation of my Living Room before all the upcomping Equipment will be delivered. And hopefully, by end of July, the new Speakers do arrive as well. Time to resell my Revel Performa3 F-208. Still studying about the Gaia. Will leave a message, once it's done.
Hello, sometimes you read about Moongel changing it properties. I forgot if it was in one of the comments below. I already have a nearly 6 kilogrammes bamboo chopping block to install under my future mu2. Are we looking for the same goals as when isolating a turntable? Hans showed us the movement the moongel will allow to the block to be made. Should we not take into account that we are not trying to reduce a movement that can be visible but more the ones that could be detected by an old fashioned stethoscope. If your idea will nullify a big truck passing by it will not automatically tackle the minuscule vibrations that will disturb your dac clock with the same efficiency probably. The French have published some investigation decades ago about loudspeakers enclosures using '' a box inside a box '' idea with sand in between. One of the striking ideas was making the panels to thick would worsen the results because the vibrations would '' stay inside the panel ''. A bit like let the panel resonate so the sand can do its job. Should we bury the mu2 in a container filled with sand?? I wanna try some Taica products they offer '' silicon pads '' in a few seizes . Most of them come with a kind of optimum weight to make them work in the '' area '' where they work the best. If you put your 20 kilo amplifier on some '' vibration killing feet '' designed for a 100 kilo industrial washing machines it will not work. Like Hans said probably the best way is to put something between the chopping block and its support and have a '' strong bond '' between your device and the block. I could imagine if there is some kind of '' material '' on both sides of the block that could reduce efficiency or not? Or they should work in a different frequency range? Of course all the gardenhose cables plugged into your device will introduce a number of vibrations that are nicely transferred right on to your circuit boards. Greetings, Eddy
Hello Hans, In my rack i made sandwich boards made of steel, lead, copper, brass, wood and top layer vinyl usually used on floors, works well. In the past i constructed stainless steel '' boxes '' filled with dry sand to '' support '' cd transport and tube dacs . BUT dont want to put mu2 in a sandpit. The French did publish a manual to make a 200 to 300 kilogrammes sandpit for a turntable. The box was made of wood and in the sand they would put a tile made of '' granito '' ( 32 kilogrammes)with the topside not covered and there they would locate the turntable. The stack auva are not that expensive compared to the price of the mu2 . Maybe i will try to find some very fine lead shot and use that to fill up a box. Of course you need to find a way to prevent the lead '' marbles '' ending up where they should not be. Greetings, Eddy@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
@@Eddy-gr5wm I'm curious to see your DIY solution. I'm about to DIY an openbaffle speaker desigh using a box with sand with 2 sheet in a L form, each sheet is one speaker, to be seperate each other from vibration not directly in contact in the sans box, it's a little weird, but I think it will work well.
@@osezchanger1596 Hello, IF you can read French try to find the French l'audiophile magazine . They published some articles about using using for loudspeakers and turntable isolation. Greetings, eddy
Firstly I must state I'm a big fan of Hans and the work he does but I have a question: These pads can't prevent sound from the speakers affecting equipment as that would pass from the speakers through the air and into the equipment directly (just like your ears). So are they meant to reduce vibrations from the floor passing via the rack or stand into the equipment? Perhaps the vibrations that may arise from the sound the rack/stand absorbs from the speakers? My home is on a concrete slab so I doubt it ever vibrates. Perhaps if you have a resonate wooden floor there is an effect? Could speakers be loud enough to cause resonance in my equipment rack? I doubt it it's the same plywood my speakers are made from. I hope the speaker manufacturer wasn't exaggerating the ability of plywood to be acoutically "dead"?!? Is Hans' rack so resonate as to be problematic? What vibration do these prevent then? It must be significant to actually change the quality of the sound that Hans' solid state equipment produces. Let me know....
Dear, good idea. Pls one day try my cheap solution. Use 3 or 4 vinilic balls (do you remember the little coloured crease balls when we were young?) each one blocked into a o-ring base. Put them under electronic and let me know.
Hans, why not start with mdf sheets layered in cork sheeting? I did a 3 inch sandwich with some feet I had for under 25dols and 10 minute install. Dead silent. Also, farther away from the wall, the better... with in reason. My. TT weighs 65lbs.
Wow nice, me being broke and just use coins & blu-tack for 'budget soundcare spike' everything might wanna try this drum damping gel & cutting board trick, thanks mr Hans! #coingang
There are so many off the shelf, non audiophile solutions for vibration control. I am itching to try the dryer vibration pads they sell on amazon with some floor standing speakers. I am sure that they will likely get 80% of the way there or more, at 80% of the cost. Be interested to hear your take on these types of solutions. I get that maybe a transport would benefit from this approach, I am dubious that vibration control will impact the sound of my streamer. Maybe a tube amp that has some slight microphonics?
Most of those are made with a material that has the commercial name “Sorbothane”. It varies. Most speakers react badly, because the frequencies it dampens is different than the frequencies that make a washing machine rock and amplify through the connection with the floor.
Interesting how fashion changes, I found coupling my floorstanders to the floor with spikes made a vast difference. Now it's suggested doing the exact opposite will also bring improvement rather than just taking you back to where you started from.
My amp and power supply are sitting on rubber end stoppers that would normally fit on the legs of a chair. My house is on a concrete slab so there’s no vibration in the structure.
Hans, why did you put 6 peaces under the cutboatd? Would 3, like Rega does with their turntables be sufficient? Loved the video, I went straight to IKEA... 😂
I recently purchased some large and relatively thick cork boards to go under my gear. Only because i like the way it looks, but it is very spongy, yet stable. Do you think you could add something like this to a future test? Wonder if it helps with vibration dampening, as well as being easy on the pocket book. Thanks! Love the videos.
Everything in my set up is isolated and decoupling to avoid as much vibration as possible even the frame the glass panels sit on have sobthane in the grooves
Sorbothane hemispheres under my DAC and pre amp certainly firmed the bass up. They didn't seem to make any difference to the power amp though. I'm using Cyrus pre/power.
I put Dynamat car dampening sheets inside my CD player/DAC and improved the sound. I wonder how this material would work under bamboo boards? My components are already sitting on Isoacoustic discs. Another old vibration hack is bubble-wrap under the board.
Dynamat is designed to dampen metal panels by adding mass. They may dampen bamboo bords somewhat but won't isolate them from vibrations in the surface they rest on. That's what the Moongel does.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Yes, I agree with you. They are rather dense, though still rubbery in order to cover odd surfaces. I used up two packets on my CD player, so I have no off-cuts to experiment with.
Would this already help in modest systems, like mine? (Kef ls50 meta, hegel h95, bluesound node 2i and a kef subwoofer) Or would the bottleneck be somewhere else? I am fairly new to this hobby, and am not sure what to improve first. My guess so far is the room's accoustic properties. Anyway great video, very interesting, dankjewel
@@mikeeygauthier2959 thanks! follow up question: my h95 is currently sitting on a cheap piece of furniture, would it be ok to leave it on there with the Orea's underneath it? or does it only make sense to use orea's if I get a proper rack first?
A question: I have often wondered about the effect of airborne sound on my equipment. When a listening room houses the electronics and speakers, can sound waves produce significant vibration in the equipment enclosures? And wouldn't level be a big factor in that?
When my children started toddling i moved my Rock turntable to a secure room behind my amps. I couldn’t believe the difference, especially with the Rock’s damping at the front end
Items susceptible to sound from speakers or other can be damped to reduce this effect. Most components have a hard metal case that ring like bells. I have often damped the inside of component covers with sheets of rubbery sticky back materials like the kind used in cars by audio installers. Or you can experiment by applying absorbtive materials to the outside of the cases of DAC's, Pre-amps, Amplifiers. If these materials aren't available you can place a towel on top of the component with a flat weight (like a heavy book or other) to dampen case resonance. I was lucky to place my TT just outside my room with a slightly longer interconnect with very low capacitance per foot.
@@blader.9433 I have used damping sheets on the cases of several components over the years, also placing them on very cushy rubber feet. I haven’t e ver gotten clearly audible improvements . My equipment is probably not good enough to reveal subtleties. I am still curious about the issue, though.
Ah I see. I didn't venture into the high end. I've only had experience with the cheaper Isoacoustics models. I certainly prefer a bread board / drum gel to those.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hans, it actually works on my Kef Q750’s (17 kg). I double layered the moongel pads and placed them on 6 spots underneath a speaker which is placed on a bamboo board. Underneath the bamboo board I placed 3 oehlbach pucks for a steady placement. And I hardly can believe it, but the messy bass has disappeared. Everything comes suddenly much more into its place. So thank you again for your expertise and hard work. Cheers, Rob
I've had good results isolating my rega rp8 with a bamboo cutting board and 4 of those: www.thomann.de/intl/isoacoustics_iso_puck_mini_set.htm which I also use under my tube pre and amp
@@mikeeygauthier2959 I'm sure you're right - they are geared more towards heavier speakers though, and quite more expensive. anyway, the minis work well for my setup
