Great video, love your reasoning - Id like to see San Martin, Pagani, and Seagul added to represent the Chinese brands added. Maybe you can have a small update to the list every few videos if your mind gets changed, or a new brand gets added? Thanks for putting this together - I can only imagine how much work this was!
Hello my friend and thank you so much for your comment and regards 👍. Yes that would be a good idea to make it evolve! Actually on my French channel I have done 2 already 😁.
Invicta filed for bankruptcy last year and are dumping their inventory. The owner kept ser# 001 of every limited edition model and now he's unloading them. I bought a bunch of watch winders for under $30. Steeldive is a brand I've been buying this year. Excellent value and quality. Seiko movements, sapphire crystals, micro adjust watch bands, and the best lume you'll find.
Thanks for you video! 🤝 I would certainly put Seiko in master because they’re still a dream watch brand for a lot of people but I agree their prices are too high now (think the diver and all Seiko 5 with mineral cristal). Invicta deserves trash, and Hamilton is so dissapointing… So there’s mine: S: Citizen 🏆 A: Seiko, Timex, Casio 🫶 B: Orient, Tissot, Hamilton 🤝 C: Swatch 👍 D: Invicta, DW 🤮
Can't talk about Citizen and not talk about their eco-drive and radio controlled watches. Bought my first Citizen AT perpetual calendar in 2011 and changed the game. A true smart watch and most accurate watch ever since it synchronizes every night with the atomic signal. I own 4 of them now.
Southpaw -- i got my first AT -- in 2006? -- which i replaced with a titanium model (my main dislike was the weight) maybe six years later. Great watches and i loved the easy time zone changes. But i'm all AliX mechanical now (in retirement): they are not tools . . . but pets . . . -- gary ray
@garybliss5673 oh I am 100% with you on Ali watches. Wearing a Steeldive SD1970 Capt Willard with a nato strap right now in fact. I think I picked up 6 this year. You get a lot more than what you pay for.
@@shootsouthpaw7771 Southpaw -- In my dotage i take my joys in life where i can find them, and one of them is being able to see a truly well-crafted, classically designed, piece of art on my wrist. I now have five San Martins and two Cronos models that, by turns, i use as appropriate or the spirit moves: today i'm working on some international tasks so i have an SN005 v4 "GMT Master" on-wrist, which is a joy to glance at. It is 5:23PM in Kyiv as i type these words btw . . . -- gary ray
You are absolutely right! There's so much to talk about Citizen and the video is already long so I had to cut out a lot of parts, but thank you for setting the record straight 👍
I wonder why you have left out all the better Chinese brands? There are several watches by brands such as San Martin, Sea Gull and Proxima that are at least the equal of Tissot and the Japanese brands at an equivalent price.
Seiko underestimated micro brands and the enthusiasts. For me personally Citizen has taken their place. I love Tissot and still is a brand that puts out great watches at reasonable prices.
For a business perspective, Seiko did the right move by increasing their prices and introducing new lineups into their catalog. When I wasn't into the watch (or at the beginning), I always thought that Seiko was a cheap brand (I used to own one in the 90s that I bought at walmart for like 20$).It is similar what Hyundai did with their Genesis models.
So, you ding Orient for a QC issue they fixed promptly, but put Tissot, Citizen, and Timex above Orient? Timex has major QC foibles on their lower end line. Citizen, outside of Promaster and some of their recent autos, is mostly a department store fashion brand complete with elapsed time dive bezels that don't actually move. Tissot is fine where it's at. Bad takes abound.
I kinda agree with Timex. They are very bad. My last Timex purchase was so bad I was schocked and returned them after 14 days. It looked like it was finished in the middle of a tank battle.... On the other hand, Citizen and Tissot are way better than Orient right now.
An informative video and sensible ranking, Olivier. One point. You lump Vincero in the "trash" category with DW, MVMT, etc. However, when I look at Vincero's website, they seem to have a number of watches that offer quality specs (at least on paper). In particular, they have automatic watches made of 316L SS and featuring sapphire crystal and a Myota 9000-series movement. Is it fair to separate Vincero from the DWs and MVMTs at this point or are you still skeptical?
Wince a bit looking at hamilton seiko and Orient on same tier. Most of Orients watches are so dated in design, authentic 70's Hong Kong, I think another level was required to alleviate my neurotic ocd! Great vid thanks. Perhaps you can revisit with more watch brands.
Thank you very much. Yes, Orient have dated architecture in their movements (basically Seikos from the 70s) but my experience they are fairly good, cheap and reliable movements, and the designs are great, as is the value
Great ranking and very informative thoughts. Just my thoughts here on brands I would place differently or things I would add: - Seiko to master or even top dog. Well they don't make the cheapest automatic watches anymore, nor they fixed their QC issues. Still though now the meta is different- Chinese watches dominate the affordable segment and even I as enthusiast would prefer other watch copy with better case, sapphire and hacking for around the same price as an older seiko 5 with useless bracelet, small and simple case and on the most part- older design. Also the new Seiko models are like 30-40% better and 100% more expensive. Still though their prices are now going down and this 30-40% better watch are what makes the new seiko 5 models perfect for everyday watch(their price is now sufficient to produce probably the best designs for the money) or one watch to rule them all, while the older models were just a drug to enter automatic watches but didn't offer anything to make you keep them, except the skx, which is now equipped with better design, hacking and still absolutely sufficient 100m for 99.9% of people(the new 5kx that is). - Orient is decent yes, but I think they are overrated. Older and very simple/rough finishing, very fuggy crystals, not great looking dials as opposed to Seiko or Citizen. I think they are like a little cheaper beater watch and nothing more. Honestly I would prefer a chinese watch for their money or save up and get Seiko or Citizen. - Citizen is top dog yes. They have plenty of bad models, but the good ones are top. Probably the best implemented and value for money solar movements. The swiss quartz have amazing technology for thermo regulation, but what is the purpose when after 3 years the battery is dead. I love their divers both automatic and solar. - Timex to decent. Not a good value for money, they don't use stainless steel in their cheaper models and are very noisy. - Casio is master yes. They make the best cheap watches, but honestly I think many of their watches are just too cheap to work/feel/look great and would have preferred to be a little more expensive, but better made. Not a top dog, but master because it occupies and dominates the most budget segment. - Certina for us in Eastern Europe is another great proposition, a little bit more expensive than Tissot, but with better dressy or sporty designs.
Thank you so much for sharing your excellent argued take with us! Very, very valid points, especially your take on Seiko which is spot on. I'm still a bit angry and not totally objective, although I really believe that for the price asked they could add sapphire and improve QC. Cheers!
@@Horologique Thanks :) A little bonus from me. There is one swiss brand, cheaper than Tissot, offering sapphire crystals, great packaging and amazing dials. The minus for some and plus for others is that they look a little bit like a modern minimalist watch, but still. The brand is Candino. Seems like they save almost everything from marketing and just puts it into creating good watches. I would say only the cheapest models would be of interest. Great gifts, look terrific and have plenty of X-factor. The only minus is for some reason they loose the X factor when you wear them on wrist. Candino Timeless is the model I think.
Olivier Another great review👍. I don’t have an Hamilton so I can’t on this. I think Orient should be in the master category by virtue of the Kamasu and the bambino. Casio is a tough call. In a lot of ways it should be a Top Dog because of the price point for the majority of their watches. However it appears the majority of their Edifice line has case sizes over 43mm which makes a challenge for those of us with 7.25” wrists to wear these watches
I THINK THIS VIDEO IS THE BEST YOU EVER DID BUT YOU KNOW I LOVE ALL WATCHES THE CASIO DURO I WAS JUST ABOUT TO ADD ONE TO MY COLLECTION BUT NOW AM NOT SURE WITH THE CHANGES TO THE WATCH THANKS FOR THE VIDEO AWESOME
Oliver -- A good video, and i know that you have to make judgments of what brands to include. My problem with this ranking is that in the $200-350 tier -- very much overlapping these brands' products -- you have AliX alternatives like San Martin or Cronos. The case, dial, bracelet build quality of them far exceeds any of these options. Sigh. -- gary ray
Yes I agree with you! I really thought about including them, but there's enough differences as not to make AE brands comparable, such as brand recognition, warranty coverage and the fact most of them make homages. Nothing wrong with AE brands I own many many of them, but I believe the direct comparison cannot be made even though they have better specs and quiet often are better quality
@@Horologique Oliver -- The Faustian Bargain with AliX brands is that you trade the buying experience (no local availability to "try on") and, particularly, local-in-country support for much better case, bracelet and dial finishing. In effect the customer is on-their-own for life cycle support . . . which is fine for hobbyists, but not consumers. So "yes" they are quite separate audiences and should not be cross compared. -- gary ray
There’s a reason why they are king of affordable (ish) 4:17. This one is no exception. I’m just not sophisticated enough to tell if this camera is better. Your camera work has always been great though. Thanks!
Nice video Olivier. I'm glad to see this type of video on the affordable end. I do disagree with the rankings except for Orient and Tissot. Yes, Orient made a mistake with that dial, though I believe it has been fixed since and people could return them for an exchange, so I'd put them in the master section when we look at the 99.99% of the watches they get right. In fact I'd put Casio in the Top Dog section easily, their watches are far too good to be relegated for a couple of lesser ones, and in fact the 36mm Duro will suit some as a dress watch and the Casiotron is quite successful though it's not for me. Tissot, I would relegate to don't buy, as their watches aren't very affordable at the lower end, their quartz watches can't hit the markers, my PRX went out of its way not to hit ANY whatsoever, it's difficult to get the movements repaired and the Powermatic 80 has a lot of issues. Taking one of their dive watches, the Seastar, it has below average lume, they also had big problems with bezel lume washing off in water, even taking a shower, a number of years ago. Tissot is not really looking after quality control and doesn't deserve a reputation for Swiss quality, though admittedly it doesn't really have a reputation for attention to quality anyway.
Thank you very much for your feedback my friend! I'm glad you gave your own! That's the beauty of this exercise, it's pretty subjective even though we try the most to base it in fact. I'm really glad you enjoyed it anyway and I'll try and do this list next year
Bonjour Olivier! I'll tell you that I would put the Tissot on "Top Dog" categorie, and Invicta is trash for me. I say that Invicta is trash consiring what we can buy on Aliexpress for the same money! Is realy that simple. Nice video, and Greetings from Brazil!
Muito Obrigado my friend!! That's the beauty of these Tier Lists, we all have our own and many of them are very defendable. Everything from Invicta is Trash but for the 8922 below $70 and the 1953
@Getouttahere78 One of Timex's problems is using brass cases when other brands at the same price would use stainless steel. They also use press on case backs too often.
When I spoke to the North American rep for Casio he said that they consider themselves a technology company not a watch company that just might explain some of their decisions Thanks for sharing as always Big Daddy Be well and God Bless 👍
Why aren't Bulova, Baltic, Luminox and Steinhart included here? Pointtec Group also makes affordable, interesting and good quality watches but I guess they are not much collected outside Germany.
12:00 Not sure I would buy another swatch at this point in my life (I've owned a ton since the late 1980s), but, as you pointed out, you really can't overstate their importance to the whole watch-world. I do like their latest endeavors with the MoonSwatch and, to a lesser extent, the Fifty Fathoms (although there are price/build quality issues, IMO), but I wonder just how relevant or "cool" they still are. Used to be that when I wanted a GADA watch (or one for a beach holiday), I would simply get a swatch. But these days with pretty high quality Chinese watches and more affordable Swiss Made entry-level alternatives than Hamilton or Tissot, I'm not so sure. Inability to service/repair them should probably be taken into consideration, but I will say that their pieces seem to last way longer than one might expect - or at least all the ones I owned did.
Tissot is not in top dog cause of a small plastic part that they use and makes everything works properly?! Have you seen their Gentleman line or T-race? The powermatic 80 is accurate and works perfectly fine.
I don't get how Tissot is even on thisl list without offering a mechanical watch ( I don't care for quartz ) under 600 €. But my perspective of what is "affordable" differs from a lot of youtubers, obviously. My Top Dog would still be Orient with their Maestro series. Good looking, ok sized (a little too big), absurdly accurate and with a 100m water resistance. For under 200 €.
Interesting take, thank you. Rankings are always problematic because they are so subjective. Brands/models that 'speak' to one person mean nothing to another no matter how sound a proposition they may be. My take is as follows: Timex, Orient, Invicta, Swatch, DW = not on my radar and not interested in owning one. Hamilton, Casio = OK but for me there are better options out there. Hamilton is overpriced now and military-style watches do not really appeal to me. Casio I quite like and have owned in the past but nothing they are offering at the moment tempts me to buy. Citizen = I own several of their watches and no doubt will buy more. Quite desirable, affordable prices, nicely made, reliable, Eco-Drive is great. However, Tissot and Seiko offer many more watches that appeal to my tastes and possess an 'X-Factor' that Citizen can't quite match somehow . . . again my personal opinion, others will see things differently. I wouldn't pay RRP for either Tissot or Seiko though. Bide your time and look out for special offers and sales which are all over the place at the moment. So my top brands would be Tissot and Seiko jointly with Citizen as honourable runner-up. Certina deserves to squeeze on to the podium too. Smaller range, slightly higher prices, not as widely available but a great option nonetheless . . . as long as you don't pay RRP of course.
Thank you very much for your take! It's very well argued and as you say, this is subjective stuff, everyone's Tier List will be different, but that's why we love them 😁
I agree with you for most of your choices. I would have put Hamilton in Don't Buy, Seiko in Master (even if I understand your point), and Timex in decent. Invicta is Trash and Swatch is decent.
True story. Late 1970's my brother visited Japan and bought a Seiko. The first with the red digital display. It was waterproof, dustproof, anti magnetic, worked at 20,000 meters and 100 metres under water, accurate to 1 second a year and would stand +/- 50G accelerario or deceleration. Great, until a short circuit in the battery compartment. The watch caught fire !!!
Huh? Orient on same level as Seiko ands Hamilton? Seiko makes models all the way to Spring Drive models, and Hamilton makes some of the best sub $3000 watches with the Intramatic, Chronograph, etc. Orient is good value, but ultimately budget watches that borrow other designs. Orient should remain “decent” and Seiko and Hamilton should go up one
Okay I'm 16 minutes in and just put Timex into the Masters. Timex makes a bunch of garbage and it's overpriced. Now if it was the same watches but price that they're actually worth and it would be decent. On top of that you look at Invicta with a bias they make thousands of watches and you just talk about two models that non watch people know. I seriously question your taste and your expertise. This is your favorite brands based on your bias not based on actual data.
Sur la majeure partie des marques (et cela concerne tous les youtubeurs montres), on parle souvent de marques qui ont beaucoup trop augmenté leurs prix. Mais vous avez tendance à oublier que sur ces dernières années, l'inflation a été très très forte et donc les marques ont ajusté les prix en conséquence pour conserver les marges. Aussi, on compare aussi souvent des montres qui ont évolué. Les Seiko alpinist d'aujourd'hui, sont techniquement meilleures que celle d'avant. Meilleur mouvement, meilleure réserve de marché etc. Les Hamilton khaki field aussi c'est pareil. 80h de réserve de marche à présent. Il ne s'agit donc pas tout à fait des mêmes montres. Difficile de fait de comparer.
Perso aucune de ces marques ne mérite le "top dog". Orient, Citizen, Seiko et Hamilton en "Master" - Tissot et Casio en Decent, Invicta en "don't buy" et DW en "Trash". Après, chacun son "viewpoint". Bonne continuation !
Invictas are horrid watches im embarrassed to say I bought one back in the day in Cancun way overpaid I just didnt know any better then. Some of there recent watches are just horrendous I dont know how they are still in businesses.
I've bought various versions of the Invicta Pro Diver (even automatics) for around $60 - $70. Don't buy from their TV shopping channel, but from their manufacturer website. They employ the same "eternal sale" tactics on their manufacturer website, but prices there are generally less than from any other outlet, and they have short-lived flash sales and discount codes that offer great value, if you're quick enough.
Orient better be at the top.. thinking to myself as I start the video.. Unfortunately after watching the video I must unsubscribe, not recommend and ban this channel. Orient and Orient Star make dozens of Top Dog watches at exceptional value. Their designs stand alone in many cases and they have a rich history with super awesome retro designs. One error on one batch on one model is meaningless. Re-do the video whole thing and put Orient at the Top Dog status immediately.
Sorry, but, Hamilton must be in top category, between these brands... Hamilton movements are really excellent & accurate, most of automatic movts of Hamilton, better than Rolex in timekeeping...
I think it's because those companies are just making borderline counterfeits. If they actually had original designs instead of intellectual property crimes, maybe he would have listed them.
Totally, and if you check the channel videos you can see 8 cover them extensively. However I didn't include them on this list because they are not the same kind of companies, they don't sell through the same channels and they are different enough to maybe try and make a dedicated Tier List