I like your response a lot as an electrician. Mostly because with many motor and AC circuits 40 amp on #10 is valid. This case if it goes to the dryer it is very likely wrong. Bad labeling happens often.
Yup AC Condensers will commonly have a larger breaker than the standard breaker size for the wire. Follow the nameplate as code says. Circuit Ampacity and Largest OCPD should be labeled on all AC units, if it's not, then follow your table on the NEC 310.15(B)(16)
Like an ac situation the compressor start up is way higher than 30 amps but it's not a heat load it happens in split seconds. So it's all good. Now heat loads like ovens, water heaters, dryers and airhandlers with electric heat kits are heat loads that pull high amps for long periods of time.
@@wolfvash22 Exactly, if the standard curve is causing problems change the breaker to a different curve but *never* change to a breaker with a higher capacity than the wire can safely handle without overheating.
Your “report” should say “I’m a ‘home inspector’ not a code enforcement officer or an engineer and therefore I don’t know jack $hit, I have no superior knowledge of anything, I play Monday morning quarterback, and you wasted $500 on a report that tells you nothing.
Good looks. Guy is doing his job. He is seeing something that could potentially be a hazard and delegating the actual decision of what needs to be done or if anything at all needs to be done to the professionals.
@@jorgezalazar7946I don’t know what that thing is called. I’ve never even see one before. I’m an electrician so I can tell what gauge a wire is by sight or feel (bend it a little). I wonder how accurate that thing is though. If he’s using it correctly, then it’s designed to tell you the gauge by placing it over the insulation, rather than measuring the width of the copper. This may be an issue sometimes because insulation varies a lot by age or manufacturer. Insulation technology has improved quite a bit and new insulation is way way thinner than old insulation. This seems like a big enough difference to actually make you think a new wire is actually 1 size smaller than it actually is. I don’t know though. Just a thought.
I used a 30A breaker for my son's dryer and I also used 8 gauge wire because it was about 50' [of wire] from the breaker box. It was overkill but it lessened the voltage drop over the distance and made sure that low voltage would not be a reason for motor failure.
@@barbarosasmth2104 yes...the heating element is going to draw alot...most of the current. I've put 10ga wire on a heater needing 20A 240V just in case the 20 wouldn't hold. The math said 21 amps, but the 20 held all day. The specs said 16.9 amps 240 volts times 125% for heating element.
It's also possible that this 10 gauge wire on a 40 amp breaker is not an issue at all, if the panel is mislabeled and this breaker actually serves a 3 or 4 ton condenser. Motor loads, in particular HVAC systems will typically list minimum and maximum overcurrent protection, the motors have built-in overload protection that will trip if it draws too many amps such as from worn bearings or lack of lubrication, this provides the required overload protection for the 10 gauge conductors as well. The "oversized " 40 amp breaker provides the short circuit protection, because a short anywhere on the circuit will draw enough current to trip a 40 amp breaker, unless it happens to be one of those old FPE or Zinsco panels, in which case you got much bigger problems in addition to an oversized breaker. Another situation that would typically only occur in commercial and industrial settings where it is acceptable to use overcurrent protection exceeding the conductor ampacity, is feeder taps. The rules for feeder taps are too many for me to write in this comment, but it can be found in NEC article 240.21.
We once got asked to hook up a service to a mobile home that had been freshly moved into a park owned by a property management company we do a ton of work for. We opened up the mobile home, found the panel. FPE, and to add more fun, aluminium wire. I'm not sure what they ended up doing about it, because we didn't hook it up.
Bro is a home inspector, and what he say in his report is always like he he put in the report. He is not an electrician, plumber, roofing, engineer or whatever, he is an inspector. He do not and can not know all codes and exceptions. He is there to raise flags on all potential issues. Keyword: potential. That mean what may be, not what is absolutelly one. Only a certified person in that field can 100% say that it is or not an issue. So I totally agree with him about what he said, and what he will put in the report. The electrician will check it, and determine that no, it do not belong to the high inrush current motor exception in the code. That exception is there because some motors take a huge amount of power for a second or two then is at normal running power. It take alot of power to start to spin the motor and the load, which cause those breakers to trip, so the code allowed an exception. As to why it is ok? Most breakers would trip when run at 100% of rated power for a few hours. All wires are slightly over-sized for the current it is rated at. Not much, but a bit. This make a '30A' rated maybe a 32A true capacity. This reduce the over-current from 10A to 8A. Not only that, but the wire is rated at let's say 90°C. This is a long term stability temperature, plus some extra. The true temperature it can handle long term might be 110°C. Again, allowing some overload to be fine. And the insulation can handle a higher temperature for a shorter time. And finally, it take time for heat to build up, so the wire would be within the practical limit temperature by the time the breaker trip. But, you are exceding the safety that both the code and the manufacturer certify as safe. Safety margin get thinned for sure. Is it a good idea? Not for all loads. This is why the electrician will do some calculations and tests before using that exemption, and only under specific circumstance. After all, his name and money (he can be sued if he do it wrong, including for the damages) is on the line.
I would turn it off and see if it is the dryer because if that’s the ac it could be correct. A 3.5 ton system typically uses a 40 amp max breaker and the minimum is less than 30 so 10 would be fine. Article 440. This simply could be a case of it was close to quitting time so he labeled the breakers whatever. If it’s not the AC breaker then you are 100 percent on the money
All modern Romex uses 90° insulation. According to the ampacity chart 10 gauge at 90° is perfectly fine for 40 amps. I know everyone likes the 75° chart. But if the wire is rated for 90° then there's no problem using it.....
You rate your wire off the lowest temperature rating on the run, if everything on a circuit is rated for 90 and the receptacle is rated for 60 then you have to run everything for 60
@@edisont.picard4112that's why it's our job as inspectors to point stuff out like this for further evaluation by a qualified expert. If an electrician comes out and says it's fine then that's on him if the house catches on fire not on the inspector who called it out.
went and did some work today at a school and they had a 100 amp 3 phase breaker with #10 wire on it going to a welder. I have no clue why anyone would ever do that...of course i fixed it..
I appreciate that you recognize your lack of expertise. As a Master electrician ( JW & Administrator) there aee times a 10agw wire can be put on a 40amp breaker.
You can’t size wire by checking the insulation!!! #10 RW90 is thinker than #10 THHN or what about #10 NMWU is crazy thick insulation but all have a conductor size of #10
I agree, but also this is a mid grade inspector. Their job is to catch 95% of issues, not 100%. Knowing that wires need to be sized for the breaker is good enough to catch a lot of issues.
@@bobbing4snapples I believe it is in the fine print, but a careful dissection of the insulation will show you that the insulation in the wires in NM is a nylon outer layer on thermoplastic insulation.
It's not right. But on the other hand the close dryer isn't going to draw more than what the circuits meant to handle. They're generally A set load. 5.5kw unless its a commercial dryer. Some of those take a 50amp circuit
@@salomon16348 Typically i've seen over current devices larger than they should be If somebody changed it out. If you got a circuit breaker Tripping off make sure there's not a bad connection somewhere that's creating heat. That will cause an extra Load and drive the amp And trip The breaker more easily. Sometimes an overloaded service can drop the voltage under high lowes and make your voltage drop And the amps Increase causing the breaker the trip or overheat. find out the source of the problem don't modify The circuit with a larger overcurrent device. It's tripping for a reason
Thats why they make outdoor rated panels like the one in this video. But I still understand where you're coming from, the breakers are expose to the temperature changes that can cause internal condensation inside.
You are saying the 40 amp breaker is too high and needs to be lowered to 30 amp. The truth is that it depends on the power rating of rhe dryer. Perhaps the dryer really does need a 40 amp breaker and it is the wire that needs to be changed and a thicker wire used.
The breaker only needs to match the wire gauge _to meet code_ (and not be a fire risk). Whether the circuit wiring is adequate for the use case is a completely different matter (and not actually a code/safety issue). But this is also part of why he pointed out that he _doesn't_ say that the breaker needs to be changed (in the report), only that it is oversized for the wire. The correct way to fix the issue is up to someone else to evaluate and decide.
It depends on the wire insulation type 10 gauge THWN-2, THHN, and XHHW-2 ARE rated suitable for 40 Amps, while THW, THWN, SE, USE and XHHW are rated for 35 Amps and yes 10 AWG IN NM-B and UF-B are efectively rated for 30 Amps which is worst case scenario... so if that 10 AWG wire insulation supports it IT IS UP TO CODE AND IT CAN BE USED FOR 40 AMPS
10AWG wire is only allowed for 30A circuits in almost all cases when used in a residence. There are exceptions for specific equipment (motors), but a dryer is definitely not one of them. The higher temp rated insulation only applies when you are de-rating a wire due to ambient temp or having over 3 wires in a raceway. In practice that means a #10 is good for 30A *or less*, doesn't matter what kind of insulation you have.
The fact that it's white wire taped red tells me most likely it is NM-B wire, 60°C rated. That is 30a max for a 10awg. Same with the 8awg on the 50a just above that, looks like NM-B and only rated for 40a.
I work for a electrical supply house and you would be besides yourself on how many times a week i get customers wanting to purchase larger breakers because they are constantly tripping the breaker for a particular appliance in their home. If you continuously trip breakers in your service drop, dont increase the breaker size, your asking for trouble!..the appliance is the problem, have a licensed service person take a look, Yeah, i know, they are costly, but think about being displaced from your home because your house cought fire and you lost everything you owned over a $80 dollar service call.😏👍🇺🇸
Who hell ever thought gauging the wire insulation to determine the actual wire gauge was a thing. I'm in the remodel industry. . .in my experience it would be difficult to gauge as over the years insulation thickness has changed due to more efficient materials, but material shortages in recent years have affected that as well.
It works on most wire. And there are specific gauges for older wire. You will have to know what you’re looking at. Definitely helps explain things in a picture though. You’d be surprised how accurate it is.
"The breaker is oversized for the wire" to mere mortals means "hmmm....ok" BUT WHAT IT SHOULD DO, is raise the alarm for a definite fire hazzard. Most home owners do NOT remove the face plate to their breaker box. So when they see a 40 amp breaker, they may be tempted to put a device on that circuit that's going to pull more than 30 amps. Because that wire isn't rated for higher amp draw, if they put that on there, the higher amp draw will eventually melt the insulation and expose the wire underneath and at that point, a fire is a real possibility. SUPER dangerous!!
i have never understood why people don’t up size their wire up for example using 15 amp wire for your outlet circuits and i would never do an oven on a 30 amp circuit personally but i have never been in a situation where i have built a home now i dont think its a code requirement to go with a specific wire size for specific areas i dont actually know as im not a professional but if it’s not something that is required by code i personally would pay to have the higher amp circuits available as i really dont like tripping breakers just because i use a a high current device like a portable heater or have a lot of devices plugged in and decided to use my older tube tv all at the same time now i know if it’s done right it shouldn’t ever be a problem i just prefer to have the ability to run a a/c unit and have other things on the same circuit with out the worry of overloaded circuits for example my home is wired with 20 amp circuits for outlets 40 amps for both drier and stove circuits and the a/c is 30 amps but its wiring is over sized to 50 amps just so the equipment can be what ever is required i definitely understand that this isn’t a common practice its just how my house was built and makes perfect sense to spend the little extra it cost to be future proof i guess its a little crazy because you probably wont ever use the oversized wire for the a/c circuit but we definitely have used the 20 amp outlet circuits because of the modern devices in use today it’s nice to have lots of outlets in every room an never have problems with tripping breakers honestly does anyone wire like this or is my house a weird out of place situation it was built in 1988 and has always been this way from new i didn’t specify it this way it just makes sense to be like that i definitely would love to hear from some professionals about how they do there installations and if this is just the standard way of building or just something most people don’t want to pay for please let me know
Why is there blue wrapping on a hot wire in a single phase panel? Typically blue would be color code for 3 phase 120/208v. Not sure it would be a code violation, just don’t understand as to why they didn’t just use black or red.
But yet he doesn't say anything about the Eaton CTL breaker in a Siemens panel.😅 I know that they are UL listed to be in there because Eaton bought the rights to do so, but if that breaker goes bad and ruins the busway in that Siemens panel that's going to void the manufacturer warranty.
What is the dryer rated at, think this ought to link up with the breaker it would have been great to show that on the video, I got caught out with hob (stove top, sorry I am British) recently an I would have under rated the breaker.
That looks like a GE gfci breaker on the top right. Not that there is any real difference between that breaker and a Siemens breaker. That looks like either a Siemens or Crouse Hinds load center. I also see an Eaton BR breaker in there.
For everyone hating on his little wire gauge tool y’all need to suck an egg. It’s a very good item for what he’s doing. He’s obviously not dealing with super old wires that might have thicker insulation or any of that BS.
I had a house that had to be rewired because it had nob and tube wiring. It had 30amp breakers on every circuit. And of course they had a small electrical fire I wonder why. And the wire was 14 gauge.
@@ryanyork837 It is less dangerous with a knob and tube electrical installation because the wires dissipate heat better. Additionally, the wires are kept away from any combustible surfaces. ...In theory.
@@sg39g And The Wire insulation back then was a rubber and asbestos coating. unlike polyurethane plastic insulation today. Things were way over built back then. And fuse boxes in a way had some better features you could tell what's going on with your electrical system simply by glancing at the fuse. Melted wire you got an overload. If it looks like the filament exploded behind the glass it's a dead short.
@@ryanyork837 The rubber insulation was a problem. It disintegrates after a few decades. It is true that fuses had advantages. These protect better than circuit breakers. But there is the risk of putting the wrong fuse in the wrong place. And the knob and tube installations had fuses on the neutral wires, which was dangerous.
Yet after 70 class room hours and 20 ride along inspections (in my state) he's therefore qualified to inspect other people work. He has no business even pulling the cover off that panel.
@@edisont.picard4112 An oven outlet (NEMA 14-50R) is a 50 amp outlet. It is authorized, for an oven, to connect it to a 40 amp circuit breaker, not 30 amps.
@@sg39g No oven I have ever seen has a plug on it. They've all been hardwired. I think you may be thinking of a "range" or "stove". You are correct that ranges have a 50 amp plug and can be either 40 or 50 amps. Most Wall ovens I've encountered have been 30 amp.
I have a question for all the electrical brains….why when my tankless water heater is activated does it kill my WiFi??? Rural area with phone line hooked to a WiFi modem.
Well Article 240.4.D.6 STATES : 10 AWG Copper 30 amps. Now if its motor controls or HVAC then there are exceptions, But Not for a dryer. which is Continuous Load and not inrush load
If that’s the picture that was painted by the inspector, that’s a problem. But you don’t see me panicking here. Simply stating that it should be further evaluated. It’s not in red, bold ink. I’m not pulling the alarm. Someone is literally living there currently. And it’s been this way for a few years. But it’s likely not the best scenario and needs further evaluation. Sorry, you seem like you’ve have some bad experiences.
In some cases the electrician/owner will opt to run a larger gauge wire to the kitchen when doing a rough-in. Using a 20amp. in this case is normal for every day appliance's that require 1500W - 1800Watts. At some point down the road the owner as an example may need to run a larger appliance like a 2-3 HP meat grinder . At this point it can handle a larger breaker on the one circuit with out running a new heavier gauge wire. This is just my opinion.
A breaker is a safety device. It limits the maximum amount of electricity that can flow through a circuit. A larger breaker allows more / too much electricity to flow through the circuit and the 10 gauge wire is not rated to handle more than 30 amps so if there was a problem with the oven or a short in the wiring the 10 gauge wire could overheat, melt, catch fire, etc
@@itptires ahh ok that makes sense I was focused on the breaker being where the problem would occur and not on the things that would happen with the wire. Thank you for explaining.
@@kruck14the problem would be at the breaker. The connection at the breaker are usually rated at 60c which is 30 amps for 10 gauge copper. The romex itself can handle 40 amps because its rated at 90c. Code does state that Romex be rated at 60c ONLY so it's definitely against code, but the conductor will be fine at 40 amps. The connection at the breaker and outlet will not and is a fire hazard. Edit: It's all about heat dissipation. The connection at the breaker cannot handle the heat produced on a 10 gauge wire running 40 amps because the wire itself is acting as a heat sink.
240V @ 30A is completely reasonable for pretty much any residential electric oven (that circuit would support up to around 7,200 watts. Most electric ovens are in the 2,000 - 5,000 watt range)
So, by code, for heavy start up load on certain things, o e can upsize a breaker by one standard size,,, which would be a 35 amp,, yes not common but they do make them,, normally on old AC units, not dryers,,, there is always the 60 percent for dedicated, and 80 percent of nominal currant draw,, ussualy lean in side of over size the wire,, so a 16 amp draw, can by code be on a 12 gauge,,, but we never do that,, run a 10 gauge, put on a 20 amp,, ant that nifty wire gauge won't work on certain area wires, certain. Years there is a more rubber based insulation a d it's much thicker,,,, what appears to be 12, is 14
