Nixon Rexzile Joke? ‘Eyes of the World’ is worried that... let’s say that 1 Bitcoin is worth $5,000. Then he loans that Bitcoin out to someone who promises to repay that 1 Bitcoin in 3 years. What happens if within that 3 years time Bitcoin drops to $200? Obvious to me, ‘Eyes of the World’ is concerned about the return of the paper Dollar value. As for me, if I were to loan out some of my Gold, I would want to get my Gold paid back, with some interest paid for having made the loan. There is no ‘guarantee’; anytime you loan out or invest your money, you are putting your money at some level of risk.
Too volatile, it cant be used as money due to uncertainty. With stable fiat currencies you know exactly what you getting. Imagine borrowing 1 btc valued 5000 and then in 3 years time you need to return btc worth 200k usd, your house gets repossessed because you couldn't pay what was essentially $5k loan
You are extremely stupid. Suppose you gave a loan in btc worth 5000 usd. Lets assume it costed you 1 btc. Now, lets assume that the price of btc falls to 200 usd, you would get 25 bitcoins back (equal to 5000 usd at the time) plus interest calculated the same manner. The same logic you are using applies to loans bcaked by gold
He lied about TCP IP not being improved upon or at least it is a logical fallacy. It is operated by a global non profit and updates its functionality yearly. The competition is writing better code for it, and to say that the code from 1987 has not been improved upon is hysterical.
@@PowerfulKundalini Well, Bitcoin code is also improved upon with just minor adjustments just like TCP... UDP is a competing protocol for TCP that's better suited for mobile devices.
He talks about software technology like new age spirituality gurus talk about quantum mechanics. Like those gurus, he uses the jargon of the field in a nonsensical way. The aim isn't to make sense but to make people associate his product with the prestige of the field.
Yes it is when you are dealing with a medium of exchange. Something that can be universally exchanged must by definition derive its value from its security. If you dig gold out of the ground, no-one can own that gold if there is no safe guarding it.
@@Kenny-tl7ir Not correct. A "safe" is not necessary, only the ability to hide the gold and know its location. Hiding the gold on the surface of the earth is more secure than bitcoin.
I don’t own Bitcoin or supporter of the technology but I actually understand its intended usage. It is potentially a better form of exchange , but unless government adopts it, it cannot be used as such. Why would government give away its ability to corrupt.
The problem essentially is that there is no telling it will be adopted as a medium of exchange. The second problem is that it is still priced in term of Dollars; people cannot directly buy things with Bitcoin widely.
Value and price are two different things ..... I could sell a turd for 1000$ and that would be its price, its value is way different ... What's happening with bitcoin is that blind bulls are buying and selling imaginary digital turds for tens of thousands of dollars ... At least real turds can be used in agriculture, digital turds have no actual value ... The only reason the price is getting pushed higher is that there are endless idiots willing to pay an even higher price for it.... At least there is a stable demand for real turds .... When FOMO hits at the end of the Bullrun nobody will be willing to buy any more bitcoins and the sellers will outweigh the buyers .... Im a Holder of Cardano, for the simple fact that these idiots exist, I thank them for it ....
He is a smug idiot. Claiming smtp or ip protocol has not been improved 😂🤣 idiot that doesn’t know what he is talking about. On top of that ledger implementation in bitcoin is so inefficient that it is unusable form some time already.
Thank you Mr. Schiff! I find your perspective to be of consistent sound reason and enjoy listening to your videos. It seems hard to find other people who are so structured and educated on the principles. Again thank you.
Jay Noureddin you can actually get debit cards that relate to gold and if the company really wanted to could have an account with them too, and then actually get gold sent to them or use it’s as just a converter to money and get paid in cash. The same as crypto but can actually get the physical thing on top of that. Many people would swap things for gold though I bet maybe small family businesses or others. Gold also can save you from a fiat crash aswel so if you own gold then I’d say it’s better and safer than money fiat or crypto for storing atleast. Three are def upsides long term from gold. Whereas fiat and crypto who knows? although crypto is more volatile so less safe over time than fiat. I like the sound of crypto for somethings but I do think of it more as a share thing that I would buy hoping it would go upon price then sell, but that’s basically a stock, I could do that with a small good futuristic company and hope to get paid that way and lose my money just as easily even more safely in some ways as forecasts of things you know have a good product can go steady but crypto just jumps up and down heaps. My friends friend lost 60k in crypto a few month ago, that would seriously piss me off if I had money in my bank then disappeared. Abuse that’s what these guys are saying ye? These guys saying it’s not just stock and that it can be used as a bank almost and has more use than just a stock. That’s hard to see tbh
There are indeed some companied accepting Bitcoin. However gold is accepted everywhere. Every Single coin is backed by gold, silver or you Name it. Bitcoin is backed by nothing except demand and offer ( in other words nothing). Even Jordan Belfort Is reluctant to use it. There are only two Kind of people who buy coin: Very naive or extremely narcissist who thinks you are The New Warren Buffet. Buffet does Not Support Bitcoin. It Is a Bubble. Think people
The guy with the curly hair is addressing the wrong question. He keeps trying to explain the utility of Bitcoin as a security service instead of explaining why we should use money based on that security system.
Money is simply the most liquid commodity. Gold became money because a vast amount of people inherently desired it and so others desired it because it was the most convenient commodity to trade with. The utility of Bitcoin as a security service is derived within the system of blockchain, which is a virtual environment that can be replicated infinitely. So although bitcoin addresses are subject to value within the blockchain system of bitcoin, they are ultimately worthless without it and the blockchain system that creates the environment of artificial scarcity can simply be recreated making the scarcity of the tokens irrelevant outside of Bitcoin's environment. Within the virtual environment of Bitcoin's blockchain system, the addresses are scarce, but if you wanted to somehow utilize the security service of scarce blockchain system tokens, you just simply create your own blockchain environment. The utility of blockchain addresses as security service is not scarce. The addresses within their respective systems are scarce. I don't see why having a larger share of addresses in one blockchain system would be more valuable than having an equal share of another blockchain system.
@@johnhupperts I don't think you understand how block chain works . It's like saying the act of creating a car has been duplicated so many times that it's worthless because there are so many cars out in the market . Or how about the act of creating money has been done so many times that it's almost worth nothing . It's that you think it's worth something that keeps it's value not that it's a liquid commodity .
@@intothebeyond8763 obviously you have to believe that it has value, but for something to be money, it has to be liquid. No one's buying groceries with a chair. Cars are created out of scarce materials and capital. The blockchain is open source; anyone could spin one up for free if they wanted.
Jeff Doe blockchain technology is revolutionary, but bitcoin is only one coin out of thousands, what is so unique about it, blockchain is the future to transfer real wealth, not imaginary value.
*what is so unique about it* Level of censorship-resistance. Try to calculate how much it'll cost u to rewrite a yesterday's tx, u'd have to burn a LOT of energy for nothing. Bitcoin in part is immutable history. Also liquidity - amount of people owning and exchanging bitcoins far greater than for any other crypto
Every time that someone brags about the increasing value of Bitcoin, they prove Peter Schiff's point that it is not money. As Bitcoin went from $1 to $100, no one was ever so bold as to claim that the dollar's value fell by 99%, only that Bitcoin's value increased by 9900%. The value of Bitcoin can be meaningfully denominated in dollars, but the reverse is not true. However, gold or any other relatively stable commodity can be used to denominate the dollar. We do so every time we talk about monetary inflation using the Consumer Price Index. We say that the dollar has "lost value." The pro-Bitcoin panel is oblivious to the distinction between use-value and exchange-value. When they say that Bitcoin has use-value, they really should say exchange-value. Peter's point is that genuine money, as opposed to mere currency, must have a use-value *apart* from the act of exchange. This is what makes it a store of value. A store of value cannot arise from exchange itself or even its technological utility in exchange, as some of the panelists seem to think, for as soon as exchange ceases, the value ceases with it. It would then be a mere currency with no money backing. That is what makes Bitcoin valuation so inherently unstable.
To sum up what you said, Bitcoin is like toilet paper during Covid-19. As Peter said in 2018, like "people hoarding toilet papers in hopes of it rising in value". He even predicted correctly about "hoarding toilet papers" which did happen in 2020!!!
Bitcoin isn’t mass adopted yet. Thats why the price is rising, it is still settling in. why do we have a caveman approach to technology these days? Its not like gold never had instability in its price too
Balpreet Sekhon technology isn’t inherently good, that’s why. New technology doesn’t mean that it’s better than an old technology. Bitcoin is incredibly complicated to actually use. Will that change over time? Perhaps. Probably not, though. Governments would have to make it legal tender for that to happen, and what incentive do government’s have to create a competitive marketplace for their own fiat currency? None.
@@ChrisVirgilio Add to the fact that Pomp says Bitcoin will be the 'reserve currency'. The USA era of supremacy (and super imperialism) is ending soon so they will not have the same type of economic might to bully other countries into accepting "Bitcoin" as the reserve currency. . When Gold goes back to being the reserve currency, there may be a "Democratization" of the world's currencies. No more dictatorship and oppression from the American currency. Freedom and liberties for y'all.
@@ericmanget4280 oh, so why arent something with 100% value embedded in its usefulness value be more valueable than gold? or is the 10% premium value the perfect %? and why?
Never mind the fact that the "Moderator" is personally vested in bitcoin and runs a channel talking about bitcoin news. But hey, it's a totally "fair and balanced" discussion!
I was just browsing the comments looking if anyone commented on her last lines "If you want to learn more why bitcoin IS a revolution and the smartest people in the room agree". The arrogance simply amazed me. . .
@@WithSoto Until how long when we will need to land for something else as it appreciates in value? It's not a viable solution as energy costs increase and sun energy does not.
@@berekexer56 you're not understanding the concept. That's okayy, I didn't at first. The sun shoots 3x the amount of energy we consume. Solar Panels are incredibly affordable when manufactured by folks who understand it it and will get you off the power grid. Sorry you don't agree!
Schiff will have the last laugh - it's a certainty. That isn't to say that cryptocurrencies will all fail; I'm just saying that Bitcoin is incredibly unlikely to be the best cryptocurrency of all time, especially on a long enough time frame.
You have people that didn't understand bitcoin then were scared of it at the end. That's it. They still don't understand it and probably never will. Thanks, Peter Schiff.
*Valve, Steam stoped using Bitcoin because was too volatile* It was the excuse. But I guess the real reason was not to deal with misdirected customer complains when BTC fees skyrocketed in December. Now Bitcoin Cash exists
xZeroTheGreat yeah that's too bad, I really was spending so much on games when it was possible, my CC always has problems cause it's european and gets blocked for no reason, BTC was just scan and buy
European Union's economy is doing great, so is USA's economy . Gold is gold , it allways had and will have some value . Bitcoin is just pure nonsense :)
The speaker at 17:30 is spot on. BitCoin may have value for electronic transactions (ala PayPal), but definitely NOT as a vehicle for storing a non-trivial portion of a person's wealth.
Dude you don't even understand what they are talking about. Bitcoin is highly speculative and will crash because it has absolutely no value, that's what they are talking about.
@@user-nf5oq5vj3p Really? Are you sure? It is you who does not understand. And the tragedy is that “you don’t even know what you don’t know.” Enjoy staying poor! 😂
@@senorbullflag7346 I actually like Bitcoin and trade it. It's still only highly speculative and won't ever replace fiat money since it's fiat by definition.
Guessing that they would need new mics to not create an sound-loop (can't remember the name for it in english, where it just starts peeping loud as f**** because the mics takes in the sound that comes from the monitor, that goes round and round.) But yes, dosen't seem to be such a great set-up.
@@executivestudios3976 to be fair it was rigged the first time and he explained why He said too that he may of lost if it wasn't rigged If there was ever a time he got destroyed in a debate it was there, and he mentioned that I think it was one of those 50-49 debates, I would be okay with a decision either way if I judged and I am Peter Biased
Bitcoins warrior opening statement says up 170% in 12 months is putting it in perspective... well no it's not, all that does is give further evidence to the fact that it is actually a bubble, only bubbles grow that fast.
At this point the issue is that Bitcoin doesn't fulfill a purpose in the mainstream. It doesn't work as a currency, because it's too volatile It doesn't work as a good investment tool which is the other big argument because other investment tools are a derivative that usually has something with true value behind it, such as stocks, options, bonds, and futures. Issue with Bitcoin is that the ONLY way for one person to make money is for someone else to lose money. It's no better than gambling with dice, money must be transferred from one perception to another, it is never actually grown. Even the stock market is affected by volume in speculation but it's all built on fundamental values that Bitcoin lacks
@@computerlearingchannel4257 yes and made massive profits on it before it blew up, but it will never come back, it doesn't hold it's wow factor anymore which was the only reason it blew up
Back in June 2011, Max Keiser mentioned Bitcoin on his show and talked about how it was going to become a World changing technology. Peter Schiff also commented on Bitcoin around the same time saying the same things then that he has been saying these days. At the time 1 Bitcoin was about $ 0.06. Today, it is around $8000. Perhaps in 2025, Peter will want to have another debate but no Bitcoiner will bother. They will have way better things to do with their time.
Yeah, there is no telling what the actual value is, and that scares the bejesus out of Schiff, because it it's worth a lot, it makes the antiquated modes worth a lot less.
Schiff recognized it for a bubble. Early adopters make gobs of money in a bubble. Everyone else loses their shirt. Today, BTC is at about $3400. Schiff would certainly love to have another debate in 2025, but sooner would be better. BTC may not be around that long.
@@SuperMooshrooms The argument of "gold has value because of jewelry, and tech" is not completely wrong, but its' not completely right either... The problem is you are assuming that gold's price today is because of its uses, when its not... it's a combination of industrial uses and perceived value... so if you are going to argue that the gold has "value" because it has industrial and practical uses, seperate that first from the "perceived value" .. and perhaps you'd realize that majority of gold's value is just "perceived" much like fiat, much like bitcoin...
@@jedongbaguio8845 Wrong, he is not assuming gold's price today is because of its uses. He literally said "it's had value for thousands of years." Gold has a real world utlitity use cases, and these use cases are recognized and traded universally for other things around the world, because humans have created trust for it on a global scale. Hell even the computers that miners use to hash Bitcoin use precious metals, because they are the ultimate super conductors of electricity. They would heat up even more without them. Bitcoin on a digital payment level will not survive the test of time, as a global recognized payment system. It's too slow, too expensive, harmful for the environment, it can't be scaled, and it's failed on what Satoshi originally envisioned for it to be.
I bought gold and silver as a speculative asset just as I bought BTC and LTC as a speculative asset. I think cryptos will be exchanged far and wide much sooner the the metals
1beinki the thing is gold is NOT a speculative asset (where the term worth its weight in gold comes from) it has actual value based on what you can do with it. The same cannot be said for btc and Ltc.
Bitcoin gave us unlimited OSI Model layers? 🤦♂️🤣 SMTP? You're not even allowed to use that protocol anymore as an O365 partner because it's legacy. Technobabble is not an argument.
Ike E in this case it’s subverting the point and trying to claim that the strength of a currency lies not in its monetary value which is completely nonsensical.
Two ships sail into the sunset, one with a ton of gold and one with a bitcoin wallet valued the same. Both ships sink. Which ship would you wish to salvage in two hundred years?
51:17 Peter yells "Gold." This is funny considering he claimed that early adopters would 'cash in' for crypto. This is the same situation as Mr. Peter Schmuck would do if Gold exploded. I can tell that he is scared which is why he is so dedicated to debates and trying to fight his fight for precious metals. A word of advice for everyone, diversification is smartest thing you can do. Own Gold, Silver, Bitcoin, Crypto, and stocks.
The problem with the argument that bitcoin is far granular than gold, and you can have like a grain of bitcoin (gold) is that transaction fees on the blockchain blow it all out the water. HFT isn't possible on blockchain.
Think of it like Linux. There are many copies of it based on the underlying software or maybe even its very own (litecoin) but Linux itself isn't valueless just because there are many versions of it. I like that explanation from sovereign man. However the physics and math Q I wouldn't know an answer to that
You can copy the Bitcoin code base a million times over, you can't copy the Bitcoin network. The value lies in the network. Why is this lost on people?
The other thing is, if there was a war and we lost internet and electrical power. What's the value of a bitcoin then? Gold has value as its a real life thing
That's true of any electronic payment system and stocks. What's the value of a dollar in your bank account if there's no "internet and electrical power"?
its easy being pro-bitcoin if you hold a lot of bitcoin, that is the problem with these debates. if you hold bitcoin, its in your interest to create buyers saying bitcoin is the next big thing from this genius mr Sushi Nakatomi in Japan..
Why would you choose something with no proven track record at all, ahead of something with a 100% track record? It just does not make any sense at all.
great point. would i rather a total unknown or something with a consistent inflation that is beat by the stock market anyways so I can store my wealth reliably between usd and index funds. bitcoin is not used for transactions much at all and has no intrinsic value like index funds do. why invest in something that is pure speculation with no goods or use...
NowisEvollovetion Because many people saw this interesting new technology with lots of potential for growth and adoption and speculated that others would see the same thing and its value would rise astronomically. And that is exactly what has happened. Plus you don't have to choose one thing over the other. You can own both gold and Bitcoin.
Juan C Yes Peter is certainly a big money loser. He was attending conferences and people were telling him about Bitcoin when it was under $10. Still think he is legit?
Nothing has intrinsic value ? I really hoped I would hear a sound argument against Peter's point about the speculation value, but yet again... "Investing" in BitCoin still sounds weird to me.
Stankin' Thankin' i think what he means is that it is subjective value that gives things their price ie what you think it's worth and are willing to pay. Intrinsic value does factor into that though.
intrinsic value would be it's of some minor use, like a paperweight or with gold melted into something. That value is still subject to speculation though, so i don't get the point of arguing about it.....?
Any crypto holder should just cut their losses. There are no more new fools left to enter the market, and if you don’t dump soon you’ll end up as the greatest fool.
@@valkyriesmastermind I said 0, I meant virtually 0. What's the difference from 0 or 5 or 10 dollars. You've lost virtually everything either way, especially if you bought at 20k. Keep hodling!
I think a big downside of bitcoin (and cryptos in general), in opposition with precious metals, is it's need of electricity to work. I mean, you gotta think about those people that cannot or don't want to use phones, pc and all the electrical equipments. How bitcoin is gonna work for them ?
Also, Peter, Bitcoin's success is not about making money by speculating on its price going up. There is no asset of which the price is always going up. You're setting up an impossibly high standard for the success of Bitcoin.
Value is simply what the consensus agrees on as value. If we all suddenly agreed that Gold was worth nothing because we found out a Gold asteroid was going to crash into earth and it would rain gold coins from heaven on the entire planet for 5 years, how much would gold be worth then?
That is exchange-value. Use-value is not subjective. If you want to build a suspension bridge, you're going to need steel, no matter how much exchange-value hemp has.
Jeff Kalb What is the "use-value" of a bridge located in Oozbekistan to a guy living in Omaha, who has never traveled outside of Nebraska? My guess is, its pretty close to zero
As a Bitcoin (BCH) user, I totally agree that Peter Schiff won the debate. Those "Pro-Bitcoin (BTC)" guys seem to not know that fees can go as high 50$, its roadmap is completely centralized through the Blockstream devs and BTC is loosing its superiority as the main exchange pair. If you want a solid pro Bitcoin guy on, invite Roger Ver.
1) Peter always makes sense and has good clear explanations.. he is awesome. Usually comes off as the smartest and most charismatic guy in the room. 2) That bitcoin dude creeps me out.. like he could kill me and everyone in the room at any moment.
Two questions I would have posed for the "Bitcoin is revolutionary" side: 1. Is the Ithaca HOUR money? If so, why? If not, why not, and how is the failure of the Ithaca HOUR not a warning for Bitcoin? 2. Supporters of Bitcoin frequently point to its main qualities-decentralization, pseudonymity, scarcity, immutability, and divisibility-as the source of its "intrinsic value" and therefore the reason Bitcoin can be money. But it seems to me that these are merely qualities that, if Bitcoin were money, would make Bitcoin relatively desirable compared to alternative monies. In other words, those qualities make the money easier to spend/send. But they seem irrelevant to the question of whether Bitcoin can be money in the first place. Consider an analogy: the emergence of credit/debit cards was at least as revolutionary to the system of payment as Bitcoin is-there are even some qualities that Bitcoin has that credit/debit cards also have, albeit in a lesser or prototypical form. And there were innumerable successive technologies before credit/debit cards that made money easier and more secure to spend/send. So my question is, Why are credit/debit cards not money?
Cryptos were great if you got in early, now not as much, but the possibilities of gold going up 4x is 0 and the possibility of bitcoin going up is 50/50. so invest wisely.
I don’t understand what magical point Andreas can raise that refutes peter’s fundamental criticism of bitcoin , Andreas knows his own refutations of it are weak, but talking to joe organ about it is different to really having to address the reality.
@@callmedeno The value in Bitcoin is its hashing power coupled with blockchain's instant settlement and lack of counter party risk. A 51% attack on Bitcoin would be virtually impossible at this point due to the size of the network which, as one of the debaters said, consumes energy equivalent to that of a small developed country. The issue is if that can be maintained.
Good points made by each side. The power of the blockchain technology really is what matters. The financial industry may very well be revolutionized by this new technology.
thats the whole point. Bitcoin is the original and just happens to also be the most secure... Never hacked and there are plenty of others to choose from. Basically the revolution has already started, it just needs to iron out the kinks. Think of it exactly how the internet started, clunky and terrible, but now you have in the palm of your hand, that's how fluid crypto will be with development.
@@wokewatch8508 It is until it isn't. Everyone always like to remark on the fact that there is more computational power in a modern calculator than the supercomputers they used at NASA in the 60's. Technology advances rapidly, quantum computing and AI may make BTC's 'security' completely obsolete. A 51% hack is entirely possible when you talk about the advances those two technologies may bring in the next few decades. It's also much easier to just destroy the network for whatever political purpose an antagonistic entity, like a government, might have than it is to try and reverse the chains. Also, nobody really gives a fuck if it's the original. That's just a terrible argument. We don't use planes styled after the Wright brothers's original model.
25:21 If a credit/debit card transaction is not instantaneous then why does the transaction appear in my account immediately? It may be listed as pending but it still is recorded immediately.
Who would want get paid in bitcoin for doing his/her job, in something so volatile. Nobody wants to received a payment in something that will be worth 10% less or even more in a week
mikeandres00 I'll bet there are plenty of people out there who would accept a portion of their pay in Bitcoin. There is a company (bitwage.com) that offers that service. If I remember correctly you have your employer direct deposit to Bitwage, then Bitwage sends a deposit to your bank account and Bitcoin to your Bitcoin wallet minus a service fee. The percentage of $/Bitcoin is user selectable.
KonaChuck22 but it is so volatile that most people wouldn’t accept it, why would want get paid one day and next day, it could be worth %5, and in a week sometime it could go down as much as 15%, money is not that volatile, it cannot be, especially when you are dealing with future contracts, and payments, nobody will do a future contract in something so volatile, let’s say that you make a contract in 6 months for 1 bitcoin, which would have bought certain amount of things, if you would done in January 2018, then 6 months later that same bitcoin when the price was $6,000 would have bought you 1/3 of what it would have in January. Those people are gambling every time they get paid in bitcoin, it will always be volatile, because it is all being manipulated, I know about people who own thousands of them, one has 8,000, he sells them to someone, and that person sell them back, when a lot of them do it collectively, they can do many things to affect the price.
So is gold, educate man.. Oh, and so is cash, you sell it in the future for something that actually holds value, not just worthless paper or digits that only decrease in value. I guess you believe in money, well then you should believe in btc, teir value is both solely determined by people's believe. The only difference is that btc equals deflation, not inflation and is secure and indestructible. Get on the train or be forced in when you can only buy 0,00000001.
robbe verijke i can use gold as a luxury, i use it in my golden watch, in my wife’s necklace , bracelet, etc.... because it has a beautiful shiny looking and being rustproof, and i use it in the industry because of it’s unique characteristics and much much more uses. what can you use the btc for rather than speculating and gambling ?
