009 Small England "Prince" - PECO / Kato 009 Narrow Gauge - Model Railway Review 

Ah good to know! That makes sense especially considering the gradients of the Ffestiniog. Thanks for watching 😃

Well they are not exactly pots for the sanders they pots containing the sand, the fireman had to work his way round from the cab while the loco is in motion remove the pot lid and with one hand hold onto the hand rail 'for safety' he would grab a hand full of sand with the other and feed the sand onto the rail just ahead of the engine. The crest on the tender is not the Festiniog Railway crest, no idea what it is!

@@hampshiregardenrailways2822 Something like the crest on the tender (but at a smaller size) seems to appear in early photos of the England locos. Page 137 of my copy of 'The Festiniog Railway, Volume 1' shows this on 'The Prince' in its open cab form while the 1923 view of 'Little Giant' on page 39 of 'The Welsh Highland Railway' also shows this as faint detail. Both books are by James I.C. Boyd.

@@derekp2674 I will have to dig out my copy of Boyd and look again! incidentally I noticed that 'Palmerston' is carrying similar crest on its tender now, see F&WHR Moving Pictures No 69 on RU-vid. You live and learn.

Thanks Ken, glad you're excited to see the 009 layout in the future! I'm gonna start sharing the progress with my Channel Members very soon so it shouldn't be too long to wait. Thanks for watching 😃

Thanks! I'm definitely excited for what I'm planning. Like I said in the video I'm sharing all the progress and getting feedback from my Channel Members so it's a great time to sign up if you're interested in narrow gauge. Thanks for watching 😃

Awesome, it's a great little model isn't it! And nice that we have a 009 tender loco on the market for a decent price too. Thanks for watching 😃

Awesome, I bet it'll look great running with the Bug Boxes! Fingers crossed it arrives ok. Thanks for watching 😃

Yeah I agree, the lack of a DCC socket is really the only major let down for me - especially as they've released the chassis as it's own standalone product. But like you I've found that it runs incredibly well for a small loco and lives up to the standards that Kato are known for. Thanks for watching 😃

Glad you decided to relocate James - it makes sense as 009 becomes more popular. Have to admit though I'm very jealous you've got your own model studio! The coffee table layout sounds interesting too, I've actually got something similar planned for my own layout. Not quite the same but certainly in the same vein. Thanks for watching 😃

Awesome, I did suspect they would do them in the green livery at some point! Thanks for watching 😃

Thanks Ben! Like I said in the video I'm sharing the build progress with my Channel Members and getting feedback from them too so if you'd like to be involved now would be a great time to sign up 😉 Thanks for watching 👍

009 is fairly new to me as well although I've been admiring from a distance for a while. The plan for the layout is looking really exciting - I'm hoping to be able to share a few things with the Channel Members in a week or too to get their feedback too. Hope your track arrives soon as well so you can get your locos running - fingers crossed the Small England doesn't have any running issues. Thanks for watching 😃

Thanks, it is a good looking little loco isn't it. Nice to have a RTR tender engine available in 009 too! Thanks for watching 😃

Yes I think people mostly go into 009 modelling if there's a particular line or prototype they want to recreate/emulate. For me the L&B locos aren't really my main interest which is why I never took the plunge before - but now that there's more welsh locos on the market I'm happy to pay the price for these locos. I do think it could be an interesting experiment from PECO/Kato though. Perhaps having a more simple model may encourage more people to start 009 layouts. Or maybe if it's at a good price point those who already have layouts will get one because "why not". I'd definitely like to take a look at the Hunslets too - though I hear they may be delayed to next year now. To be honest I'm having a hard time choosing between the open and close cab variants - maybe I should do a review on each 😂 Thanks for watching 👍

Yes it's definitely a nice model. I think PECO / Kato originally said that after the Small Englands the plan was then go on and make the Double Farlies but considering Bachmann have just released their own version I wonder if they'll stick to that plan or move onto something else instead 🤔 Thanks for watching 👍

Wow, that sounds incredible David! I'm guessing you squeezed the speaker into the cab then? I might be tempted to do the same thing if I can build up the courage. Thanks for watching 😃

I don't think that's strange at all Ethan. Generally I think those who model in 009 are more accustomed to taking things apart, building kits and tinkering in general so it's almost like the model has been designed in this way. It might be down to the chassis being a separate product as well. Thanks for the clarification on the nameplates although that's even weirder to me that they didn't make a shorter one for Prince if it wasn't part of the main body. I haven't taken mine apart yet so I'm not sure how big the hole is but for a blank saddle tank would a little bit of filler cover the hole if you're repainting it anyway? I imagine there will definitely be kits and 3D printed bodies to fit on this chassis in the next few months though! Thanks for watching 😃

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Filler most definitely would fill the hole yes, but for those who would want the plate to sit near the front of the loco they'll have the rivet detailing (or lack there of) to deal with, though hopefully someone prints an insert or a whole new tank to fix that issue!

Awesome, good to know hardwiring is possible then! I'll probably use a Zimo decoder myself in the future as I've used some of their really small ones in other locos. I'm amazed to hear someone has fitted sound in though. Yeah I guess the cab is the only place the speaker could go. It's quite enclosed anyway so could probably be hidden by adding a driver in the doorway. Thanks for watching 😃

It's something I've been wanting to do for a while now but with the release of all these new locos and seeing some excellent videos (yours included) I've decided I need to get on with it. The plan is to start off with something small and simple first so I won't get distracted for too long. Then once the OO layout is complete I'll look at doing something bit more ambitious 😉 Yes the Thomas engines do look good. I've been hunting around for a Skarloey myself but they all seem to be gone never mind the conversion kits. Looks like I missed the boat on that one unless they make more in the future. Thanks for watching 👍

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy totally Thomas have rheneas but i haven’t seen Skarloey for a while (he’s the better of the two models IMO) AGR in Leighton Buzzard where hoping for some more stock to come in so might be worth keeping an eye on them.

The Welsh certainly know how to build their narrow gauge locos! Thanks for watching 😃

I think the American equivalent of 009 is HOn30 if that helps. I can't wait to start work on the layout either - really interested to see what the Channel Members make of it! Thanks for watching 😃

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy it is very expensive the HOn30 and hard to find. Maybe if they release some Peco/Kato hear it my be something I could afford. Hope someday to get some for my N scale layout. GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖

Thanks for the heads up Brian! They've probably all sold out so I've removed the links for the moment... although apparently they are being released in a green livery fairly soon. Thanks for watching 😃

Nice! The 812 is a great model - pricey but worth it in my opinion. I imagine PECO and Kato will be selling the Small Englands for a while though as it sounds like they had future runs planned so maybe you will be able to pick one up in the future. Thanks for watching 😃

Nice to see someone say they have a budget and have choices to make rather than just demand all prices lower to the point they can buy everything. $400 a month is more than enough to buy things up slowely and enjoy them. It may even help you in the long run as you don't get the first buyer issues that effect those that must have the latest model the moment its released. You have the benefit of their hindsight on your side in making smart chocies for purchasing.

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 😃

That's good to know, thanks Michael. Although the real Prince currently doesn't have anything on it's tender I believe. Thanks for watching 😃

Yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃

Yep Duke was definitely based of Prince - the general shape and the name are bit of a giveaway 😉 Thanks for watching 👍

This would suit his grace !

Oh no, that sucks! Hopefully you were able to send it back. It might be worth waiting a little bit though as PECO supposedly have a new batch of these due early next year which improve on some of the issues these ones have. Thanks for watching 😃

Hey Jon, yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃

009 is definitely a more niche part of the hobby hence the higher prices. If you're on a budget though, perhaps look at some of the 3D printed body shells you can get for Kato chassis like the Tram loco I use on Gofod Tynn. Thanks for watching 😃

Hi there, I presume this is happening with models from the initial run and not the re-release that claimed to resolve this issue? For me I've found the best way to get them back in is to tip the loco on it's side, line up the holes on the connecting rods and then use a pair of fine tweezers to drop the pin back through the two holes. Once you've done that, use the tweezers again to move the connecting rods and pin over the hole in the wheel and gently push the pin back in place. That's the best way I can describe it so I hope that's helpful. To stop it from happening again I would stay away from running the locos too fast as this is what always seems to work the pins loose on mine. I had it happen in the middle of an exhibition last year so I can feel your frustration! Fingers crossed you get it sorted and thanks for watching 👍

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy thanks, contacted KATO service and found out they have a facility in the US , Illinois. See what can be done there.

Update, forgot to post this but the US facility made the repair and they have been running fine since Cheers

Hey Will, at the moment the plan is just to create a separate stand alone narrow gauge layout. I would like to have something integrated with the modular layout in the future but that is definitely a long way off at the moment. Thanks for watching 😃

Ahh glad you got it sorted. The good thing with these particular locos is that they are simple enough that it's not too difficult to fix yourself. Thanks for watching 😃

Hiya, the 009 layout won't be exclusive for Channel Members. They just get to see it all first, be involved with the planning and give me feedback along the way 😊 The next modular layout update should be along fairly soon too. Thanks for watching 👍

Yeah that's right, Duke was definitely based on the Small Englands. Awdry was a big fan of narrow gauge railways and was a volunteer at the Talyllyn Railway, which is what the Skarloey Railway was heavily inspired by. Presumably the Mid-Sodor Railway (which I think is where Duke came from originally) was supposed to represent the Ffestiniog but that's a bit of a guess from me. Thanks for watching 😃

Really, that's great if it's true! I've only ever seen photos of Palmeston dressed up as Duke but I never knew Prince had played the role as well. Thanks for watching 😃

They are indeed! Very good quality I’ve found and they don’t break the bank either. Thanks for watching 😃

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I thought so, I’ve had several of his prints and they’re all outstanding and much better value than buying the Dundas kits for example 👍

Think you might be getting confused with Duke from TTTE there 😉 thanks for watching 👍

It's got a lot going for it. All the convenience of 4mm but the railway itself can fit into a much smaller space with tighter curves. Thanks for watching 😃

Yep! Just like all the Skarloey engines were based on real engines at the Talyllyn Railway, Duke was inspired by Prince at the Ffestiniog railway. Thanks for watching 😃

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I hope I get one of these eventually. 👍

Hmm, well that's up to each individual. I will say that $200 seems high considering that here in the UK they're sold for the equivalent of $150 dollars. That said, as you can see from the video, it's a nice loco and runs well but the electronics are very simple (no DCC for example) and it is mostly made from plastic. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Bachmann 009 models tend to have but (usually) the price reflects that. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 👍

Yep Duke was definitely based on Prince. My project doesn't really have anything to do with the Mid Sodor Railway but perhaps you could say it takes inspiration from the same places. Thanks for watching 😃

Yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃

Yes I saw that too. I believe it' just a new body shell to fit the existing Small England chassis though - but it's still a win for 009 modellers. Thanks for watching 👍

I see what you're saying but if that was the case why then does almost every other 009 loco have a decoder socket included. Surely those manufactures would have drawn the same conclusions and also not included one. It's not always about what simulates realistic running either. People will operate their own layouts in many different ways and may choose to run multiple locos as a time even if it's not strictly correct because it's what they enjoy. With the Baldwin and the Double Farlies having built in speakers too others have chosen to make use of DCC sound so you wouldn't be able to use the Small England on that system without hardwiring in a decoder. Mostly though it's about giving each individual modeller the choice and I don't think adding a simple small socket was really beyond PECO and Kato in this instance. Thanks for watching 😃

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy honestly they may have just put it there to put DCC ready on the box. I get what you're saying re choice but ultimately they haven't removed the choice to take it to a shop and have someone in the know wire in a chip or a speaker, they just haven't done provided a socket to plug something into. The same thing could be said for say a microsoft surface that doesn't have an HDMI port... they make you go out and buy some funky adaptor if you want that same functionality that a laptop with an HDMI port has at your own expense even though they know some people will like it, does it effect the core functionality or aesthetics of the machine much? Nope, its just one of those choices they made, same as our choice to buy it even though we know it lacks this feature. If they had put a socket in they may have had to compromise on the design, up the cost by diecasting more of it to add weight from removing space where weights once lived, the speaker wouldn't have been the speaker some people wanted, the socket might have not had the pins some people wanted if it was just a socket, the decoder might not have been peoples preference of decoder if they supplied it with one. Sorta flows both ways, can't ever please everyone and there are as many mistakes to be made trying to do so as there is trying to not do so and every point between😊 really it's just nice to be able to get a model of it without hours of burned fingers, strained eyes and years of skill building to be either able to scratch or kit build it! Wondering to myself about starting a channel on scratch building locos and stuff just to give comparison to ready to run. It would be a neat side by side to scratch build our good friend the barclay 0-4-0st on camera with a clock counting up the hours and swear words then show the clicks on the website to just order one from hattons and compare the two results. Think we could do with this as a hobby, reminders of where we've come from, sort of like showing a barry scrapyard wreck to anyone in preservation who says its a lot of work to overhaul a loco.🤣 Rejoice in what we have and with such ease, don't get to caught up on small things we lack that can be so easily fixed and put a couple of quid in the pocket of a small business that does DCC retrofitting.

Oh no, sorry to hear that Tim. If you haven't already you should definitely contact PECO to let them know about the issue. Hope you get it sorted and thanks for watching 😃

Haha, yep I couldn't resist the opportunity to poke a little bit of fun there 😂 Thanks for watching 👍

Yeah it is slightly. I only noticed myself when editing the video - it's almost imperceptible in reality but when the camera is close up like this you can see it. Should be easy enough to move it forward a bit though. Thanks for watching 😃

Hey Vinny! Only because that's what I had to hand to test the loco when filming the video - the actual layout will use PECOs 009 track. I definitely want to take a look at the Double Farlies and Baldwins from Bachmann too and I can't wait for their Quarry Hunslets as well! I have to admit that I'd also heard the Heljan locos were a bit fussy and had a few issues which slightly put me off. Thanks for watching 😃

Haha, I just need to get on of Bachmann's 009 Peter Sam models then 😂 Thanks for watching 👍

I think you mean "your highness" 😉 Thanks for watching 👍

@@ThatModelRailwayGuy His Grace was the Duke of Sodor. His name is Sir John Arnold Norramby.

Don't forget the prototypes have a central buffer like this too. Besides, you can easily remove the hoop and just use the ones on the rolling stock instead for a more realistic look. Thanks for watching 👍