Тёмный

026 Wireless Text Messages without Cables or Modems: Rattlegram (OFDM) 

HB9BLA Wireless
Подписаться 30 тыс.
Просмотров 69 тыс.
50% 1

What a fantastic idea! The Rattlegram app for Smartphones transmits data using our radios' microphones and loudspeakers. With more than double the speed of APRS. How is this possible without cables to the handheld? And what is the relation of this project with Wi-Fi, 4G, and 5G? Stay with me. I will tell you an interesting story.
Links:
OFDM Modem: github.com/aicodix/modem
Zero Retries Newsletter: zeroretries.substack.com/
Baofeng UV-5R (not allowed in EU and CH): amzn.to/3W0P2KU
Ailunce HD1 DMR radio (used in this video): amzn.to/3Pf4Szo
Anytone AT-D878 (better choice, but currently not allowed in CH): amzn.to/3UR4eJI or s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dci...
The links above usually are affiliate links that support the channel (no additional cost for you).
Github: www.github.com/sensorsiot
My Patreon Page: / andreasspiess
If you want to support the channel, please use the links below to start your shopping. No additional charges for you, but I get a commission (of your purchases in the next 24 hours)
My Amazon.com shop: www.amazon.com/shop/andreassp...
For Banggood bit.ly/2jAQEf4
For AliExpress: bit.ly/2B0yTLL For Amazon.de: amzn.to/2r0ZCYI
For Amazon UK: amzn.to/2mxBaJf For ebay.com: ebay.to/2DuYXBp
/ spiessa
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases

Опубликовано:

 

15 июн 2024

Поделиться:

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист
Посмотреть позже
Комментарии : 375   
@rkirke1
@rkirke1 Год назад
Brilliant idea and implemented perfectly for the smart-phone era! I remember in the early 2000s I worked at a small internet company and stunned one of my colleagues (who was well versed in IT, but not radio). I installed an early piece of PSK31 software on both of our PCs (which were several meters away in a fairly noisy office environment, and had 90s style PC speakers and electret "stalk" microphones). I told him to go ahead and unplug the ethernet cable from his computer which he did. After a few warbling sounds from my PC, messages from me started appearing on his screen as I typed. He was dumbfounded at first and then quite impressed once he worked out what was happening :D I'm impressed that the RU-vid MPEG audio compression didn't affect the reception of the Rattlegram whatsoever! Merry Christmas & a happy New Year to Andreas, Ahmet and all the viewers!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Nice story! Indeed, I was also impressed that it worked on RU-vid. We did tests with DMR and there it did not work at all.
@DrBovdin
@DrBovdin Год назад
@@HB9BLA the reason why it didn’t work on DMR I suspect might be because the compression protocols there are optimised for voice readability and are much more aggressive than e.g. mpeg is even at lower bit rates. The goal of mpeg as used in YT et c. is to reconstruct as much as possible of the in-spectrum at the output without voice optimisation (I wouldn’t be surprised if other voice codecs would similarly destroy the message).
@SchwaAlien
@SchwaAlien Год назад
I have fond memories of programming games found in magazines into my first computer (the TI99) and saving and loading the programs using audio cassettes, so this seems like a modern evolution of that early 80’s tech... no doubt it was incredibly low bps, but it was surprisingly reliable despite the cheapness of the generic portable audio cassette recorder. I like how the error correction is built in, the same kind of thing was present on usenet for large files broken into multiple parts that would often have most but not always all the pieces, you were able to re-create a missing file or two from the other files as long as there was enough and this worked quite reliably to collect a bunch of cracked Dreamcast GD-ROM games from that old forgotten but not totally abandoned part of the early internet.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I also started with a TRS-80 and a cassette deck. But frankly, after the invention of the Floppy Disk, never looked back ;-) A lot of technology comes back in "new clothes" after years, I think. Like the electric cars ;-)
@stevenm45
@stevenm45 Год назад
A nice intro into the world of OFDM which is also used for our dvb-t & dvb-t2 standard & high-definition terrestrial TV broadcasts.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Indeed, Ahmet did also SSTV applications. So far I never looked into it.
@joshe1165
@joshe1165 Год назад
@@HB9BLA I believe the Vesa HF digital mode for Winlink is also OFDM, but I could be wrong there.
@radiotests
@radiotests Год назад
@@HB9BLA Ahmet has Angel backers in the Ham community. They will be at the Ham cation in Florida. It's all very interesting and used in the VHF and above the potential seems amazing!
@farrenconstable
@farrenconstable Год назад
Not first, but message is "Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and a happy New Year". Took about a dozen tries to get volume levels and positioning correct. Very interested in a future series on GNU Radio! Merry Christmas to you as well!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct!
@alexosol2975
@alexosol2975 Год назад
Mt63 is OFDM mode which is widely used in e.g. prepping community for years. And yes, cable is not required for this mode too.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you for the link. I did not know this protocol.
@ly2ss
@ly2ss Год назад
@@HB9BLA Q15X25 by the same author is also quite interesting.
@VladoNejaky
@VladoNejaky Год назад
Message is "Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas🎄⛄ and a happy New Year" 🙂
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Yes!
@rbmwiv
@rbmwiv 8 месяцев назад
I was fixing to say that but you beat me to it. Rattle gram is awesome. I want to build a server on a R pi on my repeater. I like having a bulletin board like that. Awesome stuff friend.
@MichaelBransonCoach
@MichaelBransonCoach Год назад
Very interesting and thank you. I was looking at using codec2 over lora a while ago but got distracted. This beautifully clear explanation of ofdm has inspired me. I think I'll revisit it.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I am interested in your results, too!
@TheAndjelika
@TheAndjelika Год назад
.... "Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and happy New Year." This app is great, and since I am someone who was in 8 bit computing from 1980, girl now woman who loved to code on 6510, and Z80, and still love it, from machine language, assembler to high end languages, also woman who was playing a lot with HAM radio, took serious part in radio clubs ar that time, I know how beautiful was time when we were recording our data on the tapes. I can say that Era when AD and DA start becoming daily routine was magical time. Now we are mostly only D, D, D... but analogue can't disappear just like that
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Very rare to read a comment from a woman on this channel with 99.5 male viewers! So we experienced similar things in the 1980. For me, still everything is analog in the end, but simplifying it with a digital model and throwing millions of cheap and small transistors on it gives great possibilities (as we see here). I feel I currently live in an electronics "land of milk and honey".
@TheAndjelika
@TheAndjelika Год назад
@@HB9BLA Dear, I don't think it is rare, only women are mostly pushed to the side, usually when they are young. There are many women scientist, electronics experts, and hackers. When you open up your male boxes and egos, you will see it is actually a lot.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
​@@TheAndjelika First: I would be extremely glad to see more women in our domain. All I saw were excellent. And I first thought that this was a Swiss problem. But my main (electronics) channel with 400'000 subscribers always had around 99% male viewers (according to RU-vid statistics). So I thought it was a global fact. In which country do you live? BTW: My RU-vid relationship manager told me that my channel has a higher male percentage than gaming channels (which are also bad in this respect).
@TheAndjelika
@TheAndjelika Год назад
@@HB9BLA Dear, they support girls, your daughters, granddaughters, don't buy them some dolls, get them tools, show them how to solder. I need to be honest with you, like year ago I was about to fully leave your channel because of a few sentences you've said... they were on edge of sexism, showing that only men are welcome here, and women should be somewhere else. One of the first steps is to develop sensibility and really invite all people to watch your channel, and to promote that in every moment you can. Happy holidays! Andjela
@nickandjessica
@nickandjessica Год назад
​@@TheAndjelika jajajjaa 50/50 my ass, so funny to see you try to debunk the 99.5% statistics of male viewers found in RU-vid studio for channel owners jajajajjaa feminism is gay
@f1sls
@f1sls Год назад
Thanks for the wishes! And my Rattlegram was listening while you sent your demo at 0:08 and I received "HB9BLA - The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and "HB9BLA - Decoding failed"... 😂😂😂 73!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Very good!
@praveenb9048
@praveenb9048 Год назад
Some first generation computer modems had a cradle in which you placed your landline phone's handset -- so it was acoustic coupling between phone and modem.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I remember them, too. But they used simple modulations.
@scottwood1143
@scottwood1143 Год назад
Great fun, _and_ educational! Before I finished watching I had loaded the app (Android Pixel6) and decoded your message (first try).
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Cool. I wonder how many downloads he had today...
@Friendroid
@Friendroid Год назад
Coincidentally, a few days ago I found a website showing how to send images captured by an ESP-32CAM through SSTV using these radios. SSTV transmission seems very interesting. Thank you for your videos and best wishes for 2023!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Ahmet dis some SSTV before this project, too.. Happy 2023 to you, too.
@Burn0u7
@Burn0u7 Год назад
Can you share a link?
@AmeyKshirsagar
@AmeyKshirsagar Год назад
Hi. I have built something similar to Rattlegram and achieved 250 characters/sec speed on Aspera V-9. I have made some patch wires using off-the-shelf wires for headsets of WTs & phones to avoid the mixing of ambient noise or disturbance. Due this I was able to achieve a proper audio. However the audio frequency ranges of different WTs requires certain changes in the app's code and trial and error on volume of reception on listening side
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Ahmet Limited the number of channels because he also experienced bandwidth differences. Your speed is quite impressive.
@cptcrogge
@cptcrogge Год назад
Decoding worked fine with normal PC speakers. I wish you a happy new year as well!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@ratbagley
@ratbagley Год назад
Andreas, I think this is a great idea but I don't have any suggestions. I will definitely follow this so I can use it at my cabin in the mountains. Thank you for your service to our hobby for so many years. Jeff
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are welcome!
@fritzx720
@fritzx720 Год назад
Hello Andreas, thank you for the excellent explanation. Installed the App, set my Callsign and it worked right out of the box: 2 x the jumping brown fox and the Christmas wishes which are returned from the Black Forrest to CH. Viele Grüße
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct! All three messages.
@siberx4
@siberx4 Год назад
At first I thought you were trolling us, because my first few attempts correctly decoded your callsign but gave "Decoding failed" as the message (as if that's what had been transmitted - the app could use some user interface improvements). Sticking the phone closer to my headphone cup finally got a successful decode, though! Very cool app, and I hope to see future improvements in this kind of easily accessible use of high-tech encoding. It's sad to me that there's seemingly a big divide in the amateur radio community where a majority of the hobby is "caught in the past" and unwilling or uninterested in combining the extremely capable modern encoding schemes and digital processing tools we have available with the very powerful and useful transmitters and frequency bands that hams have access to. There's all kinds of cool things you could do with encoding modes like this on HF for example, but every time I search for projects doing this kind of thing, I always end up at abortive or abandoned attempts that never really took off (with a few limited exceptions). Too many hams are satisfied with either their simple old SSB and FM audio modes, or happy to rely on weird proprietary clunky windows applications made 15 years ago that are awkward to interact with or don't run on many types of systems. This is not to say those modes don't have a place, but amateur radio was originally created to allow experimentation and development of this newfangled "radio" technology, and in many ways the community is reluctant to advance much past the 1950s. Modern open-source design methods seem like a perfect match for the sharing-friendly and experimental ethos of amateur radio, but somehow the two are rarely enthusiastically used together.
@xdsopl
@xdsopl Год назад
The preamble symbol in COFDMTV, that contains the call sign, is designed to be much more robust than the payload symbols, so we have a high probability to find out who is transmitting. Indeed, the UI needs improvement with the handling of errors. Thank you for the feedback.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
In the board of the Swiss HAM Radio organization, I am responsible for modern technologies (all invented after 1980). After a short time, I decided not to care about the ones not interested. They love their hobby and are happy with it. I focus on the ones interested in this tech. This is part of the motivation to create this channel.
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
Lots of FT8 transmissions in the air means that there are enough interested people. Also WSJT-X is open source. This is enough for me to not be worried too much.
@olpqay
@olpqay Год назад
1:24 "Decoding failed" 😅🔊 Have a great sunday, Andreas ;) Thanks for your content!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It seems you need to enter your Callsign first.
@Katanium
@Katanium Год назад
Thanks for wishing us a merry Christmas and a happy new year. I wish you the same too! :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
:-)
@chrisjohnson8741
@chrisjohnson8741 Год назад
And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, too!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@joinedupjon
@joinedupjon Год назад
I found it worked very well through my laptop speakers - though I could get 'decoding failed' by moving the phone further away than about 2m... but it always seemed to know the sender was HB9BLA - so I wonder if there is additional error correction for the sender id? though I'm not the first "Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas :christmas_tree: :snowman: and a happy New Year" Congratulations to Ahmet on a successful implementation and coming up with a very catch name for it.
@xdsopl
@xdsopl Год назад
The preamble symbol in COFDMTV, that contains the call sign, is designed to be much more robust than the payload symbols, so we have a high probability to find out who is transmitting. Compliments are always welcome and motivating.
@santoshbansode697
@santoshbansode697 Год назад
Good morning sir your both youtube channel are very good and informative,,,, and it helps us lots,,,,,,,i again thanks to you for making these channels,,,,,,,, very few people do this,,,,,,,,, with ❤️,,,,,,,
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Glad you like my content!
@Richardincancale
@Richardincancale Год назад
DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) uses OFDM with QAM modulation of the sub carriers. There is an amateur radio version of DRM using open source software on a PC
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I had a quick look at DRM. An interesting project combining old AM technology with newer Smartphones!
@martinalcock7632
@martinalcock7632 Год назад
The equations for the DFT are for the continuous time domain, not the discrete time domain as would be used in an OFDM modulator/demodulator. Some carriers are also designated as pilots with fixed magnitude and phase for equalization and timing recovery, therefore not all carriers can be utilized for data.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are right.
@pasjeihobby
@pasjeihobby Год назад
This is amazing ! My head is hot after taking so much info but technology is worth of it.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Indeed, it is not easy ;-)
@christophtack5080
@christophtack5080 Год назад
David Rowe developed the Fdmdv modem for use with his CODEC2 voice codec. That modem seems very similar to the one presented here. Unfortunately that modem is deeply embedded in the freedv application. I haven't seen it being used for non-voice data.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you! Interesting links. I will have a look at these projects.
@nicolasborj8831
@nicolasborj8831 Год назад
Pointu, efficace, super travail merci
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
De rien!
@mahudson3547
@mahudson3547 Год назад
You can’t beat Nyquist - or can you? Fascinating technology. Very Happy Christmas to you
@xdsopl
@xdsopl Год назад
You can't but you can get arbitrarily close to its limit 😉
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Merry Christmas, too!
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
Frequency is only one of parameters which defines message capacity. Another two are power and time. If you have very loud signal, you can put more data into it. However at some point sound turns into shockwave, so there is a limit here too, sadly. But looks like time is unlimited.
@mahudson3547
@mahudson3547 Год назад
The comment was about data rate which is per unit time
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
@@mahudson3547 anyway SNR can vary.
@LMB222
@LMB222 Год назад
I've tried implementing this… lack of access to the full I and Q means you either have to use FSK (slow), or synchronise the phase before every transmission if you want OFDM . I'm going to check this out!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are right. Synchronization is very important.
@Torticolim
@Torticolim Год назад
Merci Andreas pour cette découverte, Joyeuses fêtes de fin d'année... Frohe Festtage, 73's, HB9DVD, Marc
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Vielen Dank! Dir und deiner Familie ebenfalls Frohe Weihnachten und einen guten Rutsch ins neue Jahr.
@urrick33333
@urrick33333 Год назад
That is extremely intertesting topic. I tried to do something similar actually.. Didn't finish it, but it seems like an awesome opportunity to start again :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Indeed, a good chance!
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
Nice thing about such project that it can be perfected indefinitely.
@jamesmichener7526
@jamesmichener7526 Год назад
Once again an excellent video. You should look at VARA and VARA FM
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Unfortunately, these modems are not open source :-(
@R4YTUBE
@R4YTUBE Год назад
Thank you so much. This video was really interesting.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are welcome!
@stewartrv
@stewartrv Год назад
Very interesting. I'd love to make a couple of dedicated devices using a pair of cheap BF888's and attached directly to a USB sound card just as done with use of Allstar nodes. We could take care of pressing ptt and reduce audible noise in that case. 73.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Should be possible. It seems you can add noise befor the transmission to trigger the VOX
@AdityaMehendale
@AdityaMehendale Год назад
A semester's worth of comms-101-theory explained in 13 easy-to-digest minutes. Bravo :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you for your kind words. I started with a course in modern communication. As said in the video, this topic is not easy for me. I did this kind of math 40 years ago.
@maximus6884
@maximus6884 Год назад
Wow building our own modulators and demodulators for these sound interesting.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I agree!
@zaphhood4745
@zaphhood4745 Год назад
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you also.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
I made similar software many years ago. At this moment it uses BPSK. One problem with OFDM that is not mentioned in this video is that with bad microphones and speakers it is possible to completely lose part of frequency range, which means that some subcarriers will be completely destroyed. That's why I decided not to use it. Without OFDM my program have problems with multipath propagation, yes, but 2-3kbit/s are still achievable even with lot more primitive modulation.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I agree. For me I agree that the frequency response of the channel is important. For me, this tool was just an introduction into OFDM. I do not think that microphones and loudspeakers are a good thing without humans...
@catcam
@catcam Год назад
Many thanks for that Andreas.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are welcome!
@EsotericArctos
@EsotericArctos Год назад
Sometimes I miss the old days of just AM. It is nice to talk on. With digital transmissions though, AM just doesn't cut it. For digital, I do like OFDM, but for analogue voice, I like the old fashioned AM.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
There is no "either or", I think. There are still enough people interested in old tech.
@cemaxecuter7783
@cemaxecuter7783 Год назад
Excellent video, thanks for sharing!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are welcome! Thank you for your distribution! Maybe you send me an email or a Facebook messenger message? I would like to use your project for my future SDR projects.
@cemaxecuter7783
@cemaxecuter7783 Год назад
@@HB9BLA sure thing! That’d be great.
@dazoedave
@dazoedave Год назад
Merry Christmas to you as well.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@VK2GPU
@VK2GPU Год назад
"Dear viewers, I wish you a Merry Christmas🎄☃ and a happy New Year" Worked first time decoding :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct!
@ArindamGhoshal
@ArindamGhoshal Год назад
Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas🎄⛄ and a happy New Year
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct!
@ArindamGhoshal
@ArindamGhoshal Год назад
@@HB9BLA wish you merry Christmas and happy new year also. Stay well. DE VU3EZX.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
@@ArindamGhoshal Thank you!
@paaao
@paaao Год назад
I've been doing this using a hellscrieber app on my iPhone to text my kid over gmrs. No cables, just phones using internal mic and speaker held near the transceiver. Works great, even on the edge of range thanks to hellscrieber doing no decoding/forward error correction or checks. Try it out... I bet you $100 that you'll be able to read msgs at further range using hellscrieber as opposed to rattlegram.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Good to know. I do not know the Hellscriber protocol.
@paaao
@paaao Год назад
@@HB9BLA I find that hard to believe having watched many of your videos. Look up feld hell, and hellschreiber. I'm probably misspelling it, but you'll find it. It was invented around the cw days.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
@@paaao I know the name, but never used it to be precise. I was not active during the "packet times"
@Thomas72B
@Thomas72B Год назад
Received: Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and a happy New Year
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Yes!
@decibel_tastic2869
@decibel_tastic2869 Год назад
Forward (typo). At RF, COFDM is not a cure-all it does have the Peak-to-Average power issue requiring highly linear, inefficient, and complex RF amplifiers. Whereas, GSM uses GMSK and tolerates non-linear efficient simple Class-C amplifiers.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are right. This is why it is not used in low power applications.
@LordDevi
@LordDevi Год назад
"Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and a happy new year." That was the message I got. Merry Christmas to everyone.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You got it right!
@firstreactor8983
@firstreactor8983 Год назад
Excellent video. Thanks! I'm assuming this would work between two Baofengs with K2 cables to thier respective phones. I'd expect this to improve reliability, yes?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I think so, but did not try
@firstreactor8983
@firstreactor8983 Год назад
@@HB9BLA Tried this and it worked. Here is the setup: HT setup (both HTs) HT model: Frequency: Wide (25 KHz) Power : Low (HTs at opposite end of 12' room) Vox: On, level 3/4 out of 7. (One level on each HT. 7 is most sensitive). Squelch: 1 (Zero is open squelch). Volume: 1/4 turn from off. Dual watch: off Receive power save: off. Cable setup Baofeng standard cable (K1) and Baofeng APRS cable (K2). Phone setup Phones: recent Motorola Androids. Volume: 3/4 or slightly less. Decoding does not work if transmitting phone's volume is too high.
@PortableRadio
@PortableRadio Год назад
Thanks Andreas for this interesting OFDM demonstration. Unfortunately, I could not decode your message, got always "From HB9BLA1 Decoding failed". Previously, I entered my call and experimented with different audio sources. Anyway, great idea and well explained! 73 Stephan
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are welcome! Others were successful. So I do not know why it did not work with your setup.
@lezion
@lezion Год назад
Hey, I would love to build multi-digital radio based on CM4 pi supporting m17 digital mode too. It would be good if you covered that mode too.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@cdevidal
@cdevidal Год назад
If you use cell phones to transmit and pre-shared encryption keys for the data, it becomes extremely difficult to censor, something we need in this age. I had thought of using a central server so that a group of friends could send and receive secret messages over cell phones. No not Signal, that uses the internet. Talking about voice calls just like in the video, over cell calls, not ham radio.
@pete3897
@pete3897 Год назад
So there's this app called Signal...
@cdevidal
@cdevidal Год назад
@@pete3897 Signal relies on the internet. I'm talking about making voice calls, just like in the video. I'll update my comment.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
In HAM radio, encryption is not allowed.
@cdevidal
@cdevidal Год назад
@@HB9BLA correct. Hence the need for cell phone calls.
@RealJohnnyDingo
@RealJohnnyDingo Год назад
as an added bonus you're adding random noise to the NSA database where they record all of our phone calls. won't compress very well either 😂
@matambale
@matambale Год назад
We've had digital modes since the invention of radio. In fact, it was the first mode.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I agree. I do not know your capability, but my morse speed never got higher than a bit over 2 characters per second...
@matambale
@matambale Год назад
@@HB9BLA About 12 WPM or 1 character per second peak for me. A good bit lower now.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
When I was young I worked as a professional radio operator…
@matambale
@matambale Год назад
@@HB9BLA Very nice. I did teletype work as a young man; speed there about 10x Morse. Morse strictly by amateur radio. TTY machine was limited to 100 WPM if I remember this right.
@chuxxsss
@chuxxsss Год назад
Merry Christmas Andreas.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you! Same to you.
@bobingridshaw5361
@bobingridshaw5361 Год назад
Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and a happy New Year
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Yes!
@TomTalley
@TomTalley Год назад
Downloaded from play store. Input my call. Entered message and transmitted. Very interesting. Collins radio used sync cohesrant ofdm in their kineplex system back in the 50's. Their adoption of coherent psk, qpsk dropped the necessary noise floor 10's of dB. Isn't it a great world we live in. Thanks so much for the presentations you do. I'm just now picking up the esp32 python hobby partially because of your wonderful videos..73. de Tom W5XTT
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Interesting that OFDM was already used in the analog tube times!
@alexflores7652
@alexflores7652 Год назад
It sounds like it is using a concept called data over sound. This idea is being considered for IoT as an added layer of security. Two of the software schemes to implement this are called Chirp and Listen.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
What is the name of the project?
@MarcinWloszczyk
@MarcinWloszczyk Год назад
Message: Dear viewers, I wish you Merry Christmas and happy New Year. Great idea!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct!
@mcconkeyb
@mcconkeyb Год назад
Yup, I'm in. Well in as far as I can be with the very limited free time I've got. :-)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It will be spread over time...
@stevestroh1891
@stevestroh1891 Год назад
I'll return the favor to HB9BLA with a review of this video in this week's issue of Zero Retries newsletter. HB9BLA does a GREAT job with this video.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you, Steve! You do a great job, too.
@jeffjefferson2676
@jeffjefferson2676 Год назад
Pretty interesting. If you were to send the sounds through a cable, could you use Rattlegram on HF? The mode does look very interesting. Greetings, Jeff
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It should also work through HF. But it is not optimized for fading, etc.
@thuff3207
@thuff3207 Год назад
Very interesting, I wonfered when higher bit rates would come to ham radio.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
They are already here in other areas like HAMnet or AREDN ;-) But on the lower bands there are opportunities.
@WhiteLion1337
@WhiteLion1337 Год назад
Nice! Could you please make a tutorial about using Rattlegram ?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I showed all what is needed ;-)
@nonchip
@nonchip Год назад
i like the bit where you said "they" call a FT an "Inverse function of the IFT" :D not sure which "they" do that but i always just called the inverse of the inverse of a thing that thing :P joke aside great video though, learned a lot :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
They are the guys to understand it ;-)
@TheGmr140
@TheGmr140 Год назад
a great video, thanks
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Glad you enjoyed it
@jmr
@jmr Год назад
This is very interesting.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@jamesdinsmore9022
@jamesdinsmore9022 Год назад
Thanks!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you for your support!
@MoisesCaster
@MoisesCaster Год назад
It would be possible to transfer small files by sound. Incredible.
@EsotericArctos
@EsotericArctos Год назад
Even larger sound files could move across, depending on the compression of the files. :)
@dv5809
@dv5809 Год назад
Not a new concept, this is how vintage computers like Commodore 64 stored programs, in 80' there were even some transmissions of programs in public radio
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
As DV writes, we stored our programs on cassette decks. But did not use these modern high speed protocols.
@wandererkh
@wandererkh Год назад
It's time to recall 20 years old dial-up modems with speeds up to 56kbps
@jco997
@jco997 Год назад
I tried rattlegram with a cheap microcasette recorder. It didnt work, as expected. I get "Preamble failure" error message. But these kind of errors was expected. Even a trivial DTMF decoder cannot work with my microcasette recorder. I was hoping that the 50% forward error correction could decode at least a single character from the microcasette, but no, it couldnt. 10/10 👍
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Strange. A cassette recorder should be able to replay the frequency range. Maybe it is a problem of different speeds?
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh3360 Год назад
It is possible to analyze how exactly signal is corrupted by your hardware. And then select encoding (modulation) which is resistant to such corruption.
@jco997
@jco997 10 месяцев назад
@@HB9BLA I'm going to try this again. I was using a "GE 35375" microcasette recorder. I think it has something to do with this; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow_(recording)
@jco997
@jco997 10 месяцев назад
It sounds like this when I'm playing back the audio ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kCwRdrFtJuE.html
@stephanesmith3360
@stephanesmith3360 Год назад
Dear viewers, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Correct!
@peterhume3474
@peterhume3474 6 месяцев назад
The implications of what this app can do has many important features. So.... if the internet, mobile phone network are down for any reason, but our smartphones can start up. I could communicate a serious text through UHF or VHF transceiver, say at a specific prearranged time and frequency, with another person ... and they can type an answer on their phone and send it back.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA 6 месяцев назад
I agree.
@PeterJavea
@PeterJavea 6 месяцев назад
@@HB9BLA Rattlegram would have really been able to help in the recent wild fires in Maui Hawaï. I live in Belgium and am a newbie ham (ON3VCF). Ispent that night up listening to the only SDR on the island going up and down the 10, 11, 2m and 70cm bands, listening to sporadic desperate transmissions of people trying to find people.... Normal FM was also down. But on 1110Khz am KAOI was on emergency programming trying to help. They were the only station I could find... (using also an app called "Planet Radio" For Several days I would tune into KAOI to listen in to the real people sharing real stories. One day a firefighter was talking about how all repeaters were out and that they'd had big difficulties getting through to base, etc. He mentioned about a new super-simple app called "Rattlegram" could have helped everyone. I have seen a few RU-vid reviews of the app, and I don't think they understand its special characteristics and features. Specifically "Parrot".
@ProGamer-xl9po
@ProGamer-xl9po 8 месяцев назад
Very interesting.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA 8 месяцев назад
Glad you think so!
@DunOpondo
@DunOpondo Год назад
This is interesting!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@nimoabo6458
@nimoabo6458 Год назад
مضاعفة تقسيم التردد المتعامد (Orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing) وضع تعديل الإشارة في الاتصالات ، يعد تعدد الإرسال بتقسيم التردد المتعامد نوعًا من الإرسال الرقمي وطريقة لتشفير البيانات الرقمية على ترددات حاملات متعددة
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
على وجه التحديد
@IamNerfDart
@IamNerfDart Год назад
I do believe in the case of FT8 you're confusing OFDM (orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing) with OFMDA (orthogonal frequency-division multiple access). Your full journey of modulation is a little sparse too, it should go a little something like: AM, SSB, FM, PM, FSK, MFSK, PSK, Angle Modulation, CDMA (FHSS/DSSS), QAM, and Chirp Spread Spectrum.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I did not want to say that FT8 is OFDM. I just mentioned that it also has many parallel narrow channels in one SSB channel.
@sharpbends
@sharpbends Год назад
Very interesting :-)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Glad you think so!
@NiHaoMike64
@NiHaoMike64 Год назад
Could encoding and/or decoding of Rattlegram be implemented on a microcontroller of some sort?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It needs quite a lot of power. Maybe Ahmet will try an ESP32-A1S
@antoninperbosc1532
@antoninperbosc1532 Год назад
@@HB9BLA prelookuptable or precalcul array could "help a lot to solve" compute problems with ram available on new µc remember what demomakers was beable to do with limited ressources 20 yeas ago !
@linuxranch
@linuxranch Год назад
Andreas, I'm not sure where sufficiently complex modulations cross the line to become "encryption" which isn't legal in some countries. In the US we have prohibitions on encryption, and requirements for station Identification. It appears that published compression methods are OK in the US, so long as the intent is to compress.. but, at some point, with "sufficient" error detection, the amount of "compression" compared to "overhead" becomes a loosing battle. How should we handle clear text station ID? Thoughts?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
There are many discussions about encryption because the law was created before modern protocols. What they wanted to forbit is to have secrets. So I assume we should be able to use modern protocols and share the keys somehow. Then it would no more be a secret and therefore legal. Anyway, we have to solve this problem in the next years.
@vk3fbab
@vk3fbab Год назад
My understanding of prohibition of cryptography on ham radio is to ensure that anyone can listen. So by all means encrypt the signal just make the key public and include callsigns and stay in band. Here in Australia encryption is allowed for the express use of control of a remote or space device as well.
@richgarrett4082
@richgarrett4082 Год назад
the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
This is the second message. The one I asked was different.
@noimnotarobotcanubeleiveit7024
merry xmas to you too!
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you. Same to you!
@kennethng8346
@kennethng8346 Год назад
Does anyone know if this method is similar or not to what the Trailblazer modems used back in the late 80s? I remember reading a description where it divided the bandwidth up into a hundred or so channels and did all the encoding/decoding in software.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
AFAIK OFDM was not used back then. The chips were not capable...
@jankkhvej
@jankkhvej Год назад
@@HB9BLA Trailblaizer's PEP was based on OFDM, those modems was a revelation for uucp. Never forget their line signals, it's a music for my ears.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
@@jankkhvej I now read the story of Trailblazer PEP. Indeed, this was revolutionary back then. And they needed quite expensive chips for "just" a modem...
@jensgoerke3819
@jensgoerke3819 Год назад
Decode worked after about 20 tries.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Very good!
@TechwithStefan
@TechwithStefan Год назад
super nice video :)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thanks for the visit!
@bigmoney8194
@bigmoney8194 11 месяцев назад
a beautiful initiative so much more beautiful if I can do it,
@p1366
@p1366 Год назад
I wonder if this would work for under-water sonic communications..?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I do not know. Sonic coms is a very special topic.
@michaelchesbro8425
@michaelchesbro8425 Год назад
This is a great app. I have been playing with it and it works well.... lots of fun. But I would like to know if there is a way to delete messages from the list once they have been seen? I don't see a way to do that. Thank you.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
There is no way to delete messages. Ahmet wanted to keep it simple.
@aquahood
@aquahood Год назад
Encryption is not allowed on amature bands but could you use ultrasound as as long as you use of the accepted and published modulation types just shift the frequency to inauable?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA 10 месяцев назад
As long as you do not encrypt, you are safe.
@kelvin0mql
@kelvin0mql Год назад
Love that the demo shows the 2nd smartphone's latest message to pop up says "Decoding failed" at 1:26. Also love that he's Rick-rolled himself.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It does not work all the time...
@matthews2585
@matthews2585 5 месяцев назад
I have a couple of questions if I may. I presume this will work if you use a k plug repeater connecting from the mobile phones 3.55mm jack? Also will this work where dcs is set on a channel? Thank you.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA 2 месяца назад
The audio just has to be able to travel from the Smartphone to the transceiver.
@IamNerfDart
@IamNerfDart Год назад
64QAM is actually really slow for WiFi and LTE/5G. WiFi 5 and LTE uses 256QAM (8bits) and WiFi 6 and 5G can go up to 1024QAM (10bits). And WiFi 7 will supposedly do 4096QAM (12bits). But obviously the FEC and ARQ at those rates are really high.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
You are right. The available bandwidths and S/N ratios allow higher speeds.
@Dednny
@Dednny Год назад
You can use the simple Btech interface leads from android to the radio. Using Skype as an additional source allows you to dial up another android or laptop anywhere to send a Rattlegram msg. The device at the far end can have audio connectivity to a radio on vox and retransmit the msg in another part of the country thereby using Rattlegram as a pager. This takes a bit of tweaking. Does anyone else have an idea on how to use Rattlegram as a pager?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It seems that you can add noise before the transmission to open a VOX.
@davey2k12
@davey2k12 Год назад
That's badass 😱
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
:-)
@topannurhakim
@topannurhakim Год назад
pinter banget bapake
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@DrorF
@DrorF Год назад
What are the uses for this acoustic signal communication? How far can you communicate with it (with common equipment)? (I'm quite a foreigner to the world of ham radio)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It has no distance limit other than the limit of the communication gear you use. Typical VHF/UHF handhelds can bridge a few miles. If you use repeaters much more.
@DrorF
@DrorF Год назад
@@HB9BLA Oh, I thought it uses an acoustic signal, sound waves, and not radio waves. That's what was said in the video, and the transceivers were always close to each other. I thought the phone sent the message to the transceiver via Radio waves, and the transceiver made the sound, which was then received by the microphone of the other transceiver, and so on... Now I understand I got mixed up, and it is the smartphone which makes the sound, which is then transmitted by the radio (pretty much like normal operation). This makes much more sense now! 😁
@lanealucy
@lanealucy Год назад
I would like to learn more about time multiplexing like dmr it uses where 2 stations can transmit at the same time on the same frequency
@droneflyer5028
@droneflyer5028 Год назад
Lots of info on Google re DMR PMR radio. The likes of Motorola’s mototrbo uses TDMA (Time-Devision multiple access) 👍
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Maybe we will cover DMR in one of my future videos.
@lanealucy
@lanealucy Год назад
@@HB9BLA I would like to use it on cb, but from what I know, it needs to much bandwidth
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
@@lanealucy It will not work on CB, it is used on the 70cm band
@lanealucy
@lanealucy Год назад
@@HB9BLA I know, but wouldn't it be cool to make it work on 11m? I mean 11m has the most reach under the free bands
@wbehmann
@wbehmann Год назад
TNX for this cool idea. Tried it out but just getting a "Decoding failed", the CALLSIGN is transmitted. Neither the sound from the YT Video decodes (same message: Decoding failed" and also tried between two Anytone Handhelds over 2m. Call Sign is set on both sides. The two phones decode perfectly if there are next to each other. Any ideas? (Rattlegram 1.4)
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
It does not work over DMR for sure. Over analog and from RU-vid it should work (at least it worked for many commenters)
@wbehmann
@wbehmann Год назад
@@HB9BLA it was on analog. Direct connection.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess Год назад
@@wbehmann Strange. Obviously, no setup issue because it worked together. Did you pay attention that the respective microphones and loudspeakers were together? Did you hear the sound on the second handheld loud and clear?
@RealJohnnyDingo
@RealJohnnyDingo Год назад
the best thing about this protocol is the inclusion of emojis! we need emoji Q codes for morse code too. QLOL
@jamesmichener7526
@jamesmichener7526 Год назад
QLF
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
I also wondered that it includes emojis.
@DanielHofer
@DanielHofer Год назад
Wish you Merry Christmas and a happy New Year too! 73 de Daniel, OE2DHH
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Thank you!
@cetyl2626
@cetyl2626 Год назад
But this is just the audio signal, right? The RF signal is still FM (The RF carrier being frequency modulated by the OFDM audio? Or am i missing something about the radios in the demo? Is the radio doing something different than FM?
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
In my case, the radios do. FM. But it does not matter. As you say, it is just an audio sound. Very versatile.
@klauspeterrimmel5326
@klauspeterrimmel5326 Год назад
Hallo, gibt´s eine Handreichung zum Einrichten der App. Klar es gibt nicht viel was man Einrichten kann aber doch genug um aneinander vorbei zu Arbeiten. Sorry die Anfrage ist Deutsch verfasst aber sollte kein Problem sein denke ich.
@HB9BLA
@HB9BLA Год назад
Ich verstehe Deutsch. Ich habe die App vom Playstore installiert und mein Rufzeichen eingegeben. Sonst habe ich alles "Default" gelassen. Wenn du etwas änderst denke ich, dass es jeweils beim Sender und beim Empfänger gleich sein muss. Aber damit habe ich bis jetzt noch nicht gespielt.
Далее
The Coolest Radio You've Probably Never Heard Of
11:54
The Idiots Guide To Meshtastic - Long Range Comms!
10:20
Is Encryption Possible on a Baofeng Radio?
7:44
Просмотров 62 тыс.
How a Wifi chip works internally (openwifi helps!)
1:01:09
021 New and Cheap APRS using LoRa Technology
13:31
Просмотров 51 тыс.
Custom Cyberdeck For (Legal) Satellite Hacking
20:12
Просмотров 1,3 млн
Ribbit - Text Message over Ham Radio with a Baofeng
13:52
5 Cool Things You Can Do With An RTL SDR Receiver
9:54