This was an excellent video. Everything you said was relevant, you went over a few different scenarios, you didn't give a long winded intro, and most importantly: It was short
where u just curious or u like keys cause i was just curious why did u need a perfect vid so make a master key ? or ur kind damn i ask too many questions
I've watched a hundred LPL videos or so, and I keep hearing about master wafers this and masterkeying that, and their impact on pick resistance and stuff, and this video explained it all PERFECTLY. Thank you so much for such a good video!
I knew it. I came to the conclusion the other day that in order to have master keys, the lock has to be easier to crack, thus becoming a security flaw.
Security can be attained again by drilling one or more construction key taps into the bolt and then substituting the corresponding driver pins with shortened T-pins and accompanying thin wafers. Won't change the master keying but it will very likely seize the bolt mid turn when a pick is attempted (the more T-pins, the higher the chance of seizure).
That's wild, I learned that trick a little over a decade ago from a guy who went by Zeke on the boards. Haven't heard it again since. Nice to see that old chestnut pop up here. I still have a pile of T pins he sent me to play around with it.
Thank you Schuyler! This is a very easy to follow explanation, I'm impressed you even compressed the springs. Your whole series is great. Really like how you cover one aspect at a time. It's easy to watch one whenever you have a few extra minutes. Hope we can expect more.
I own a rental property and I was trying to re-key it with a master key this video helped explain it to me thank you. I enjoyed every video of yours I have watched.
I once visited a friend in Germany while he was studying. In his apartment he could get from the front door of the building all the way into his own room with the same key. So all the students could get into the building with their own keys, but only to their own apartment. Then again, they could get into their own room with the same key but not into their roommates’. One key, three locks. How does this mechanism work? My guess at the time was that some of the pins where used for the main entrance, some for the apartment’s door and some for the bedroom so all the keys should share the same profile in one section and for the same apartment, those keys share another section and the third section would be different to open only their own room (I never got to see another key). But maybe it used something like what’s depicted in the video.
Not only that, but it's very easy for the holder of a regular key to discover the master key. Whereas a lock with N pins and K depths can have K^N (K to the Nth power) different possible keys, only (K-1)*N keys need to be tried to discover the master bitting - a much lower number.
Due to the fact that my landlord only used the two most obvious sheer lines and the fact that our building has locking shared bathrooms, I was able to reverse engineer a working masterkey on my first attempt. Good thing I don't have 31 bathroom keys and 1 masterkey. My landlord was too upset to be impressed but the maintenance man wanted info on how to make this harder. I told him he could very the use of the sheer line and at the expense of adding more sheer lines, he could use 3 pins occasionally or move to 6 pin locks or higher to complicate reverse engineering. Also have cameras on the unit and bathroom doors... I wouldn't be able to temporarily replace locks so that I can inspect the originals without being noticed as easily. Hopefully our building will be more secure now...
And that explanation at the end is why you can also have such things as say master key for say a specific building, a grand master key for all the buildings in a complex, and a great grand master key for all your complexes. It goes up to even great great grand master key level.
It certainly does lessen the security. but it can also bump up safety. My father is a firefighter and they use master keys often in emergency situations to gain entry in to a building
I remember when i was 7 one of the maintenance men left their key in the lock as when they did maintenance on our neighbors place so i yoibked it before they noticed and at the time i never thought about it but nothing happened it worked because i tested it at our door never used it other than that but they never changed locks or alerted anyone so they basically endangered the entire complex
Very well explained and nice video, except the very last thing you said... I mean, just because there are more ways in which you could pick it, it doesn't mean any of those ways are easier to achieve than a normal lock... In fact, if the attacker has no experience with master keys, the extra piece of metal could confuse you a bit, as you would feel different than a usual lock... For an expert picker, I don't see how it would make it easier.. they would easily get in with both (I'm comparing it to a standard 5 pins lock with no security pins nor anything)
I hate to Necro, but don't thing single pin picking. Sure, this would confuse a rookie doing that, but that's slow anyway. Not a major issue in security, just about any lock can be SPP'd given enough time and dedication. But low skill attacks such as raking or snapping? With one shear line, you have to get lucky and get all the pins to bind and set, but with double the shear lines, you have way more permutations that allow the core to turn, making raking a way more viable attack
So after reading the pros and cons of a master key... Does it make a difference if you ar using a regular lock versus a high security lock such as a Medeco?
Of course you could guess but that's all you could do. I suppose if you were mathematically inclined you could work out the amount of possible combinations but then you'd have to cut each one until you found the right one. But to do that you would need to know the available sizes of bottom and master pins. Not an easy task. It would be easier to gain access to the cylinder and open it yourself to reveal the sets of pins.
Phantom keys can be avoided if the system and all section combinations are set up correctly in the first place. Most secure systems will have restricted profiles that only certain locksmiths are allowed to use and that no other key will go in. If a common plug was keyed with master pins then it would be less secure but that's only because it uses the same profile as almost all store bought locks. It''s not an issue with restricted profiles.
*seanpintara*, you're halfway right. Using restricted keyways does help a lot. It greatly reduces the chances that a random key from outside the system will operate one of the locks. But it doesn't eliminate the risk entirely. The incidental keys are still there, all you've done is reduce the chances that someone will actually have one in their pocket. It's still possible that someone could file down their key so it matches one of the incidental keys and then they can open more locks that just their own. It's still possible that a particular change key might be very similar to an incidental key in another lock and it will work if you jiggle the key. And it's still possible that two master key systems using the same restricted keys will have a change key in one system that's an incidental key in the other system.
For a master key to work, you’d only need one pin, no? Or if you needed a few different types of masters you could have 2 pins and 3 master keys, 3 pins and 7 masters etc
Do the master wafers go in the bible or the keyway or sometimes both? I have the Sparrows master key set just for learning as part of the hobby but there was no actual instructions and the lock I just pinned the key failed and I thought I had just screwed my lock with no way to take it apart. I tried single picking no go but I was able to use a city rake to open it and take It apart. Phew so now I'm looking for knowledge probably should have done this the other way. lol
covered lock systems tend to do much better which might mitigate the risk of a master key.. pity they are not that common though... then again those locks would be a pain in the ass for lock smiths to help you with too if you locked yourself out. So perfect security is also problematic.. I live in a building with a NFC outer door key adding a weak first layer of protection... then a regular door key + another key... That still allows for multiple barriers that can still be legally picked when needed. I am half way tempted to build my own little alarm system at some point as a hobby project along with some remote access logging of site so i can ensure no one has been sneaking inside my apartment without me knowing :p Nice to know how the master key system works though :)
+ZerqTM Put clear tape on the door when you go out. If someone comes in, it will rip/leave some marks. Put it in door corners so they won't be able to spot it easily. Temporary solution?
but i heard of bump keys they work often i heard? how often?^^ if they would work 90% then i would buy but where and which i live in germany maybe there are special bump keys for this country?
I understand the how it works, but what do you do when you have an existing lock and you want to add a master key to it? the master pins are all different lengths correct? My master is 73855 and my other key is 65634. the master pins are different lengths. Can you do a video on this scenario? Thanks
What you're describing is called Shoe Box Master Keying, and it's a bad idea. You're supposed to start with a master key and then generate a list of compatible change keys, making sure that the change keys don't interfere with each other. If you try to do it backwards, first having the change key and then trying to incorporate a random master key, you're opening yourself up to all kinds of problems.
Forgive me if Im wrong. I thought master key is the key that can open multiple locks. but this explanation is opening one lock using multiple keys. my problem is why do we use multiple keys instead of just use copies. pls can anybody explain?????
jonathan sam That’s the point. One key for you, one key for your neighbour. Your key opens only your door, your neighbour’s key opens only his door. Master key opens both without need to swap keys. The system is an extra combination so whether key you use that has the correct combination opens the door. Your lock has master combination and your combination. Your neighbour’s lock has master combination and his combination. Your key has your combination, which can be used to open your door. Your neighbour’s key has his lock’s combination. Which can be used to open his lock. Both locks have an extra (master) combination as well which mean a master key could open both.
Yes, master keying is intended for making one key work multiple locks (each of which have their own key). But look at it from the lock's point of view. That lock has to work with two different keys, the individual key (called the change key) and also the master key. We do this by using master pins. The problem is that, when you put master pins in more than one chamber, you end up allowing additional keys to work the lock too. Those extra keys are called "incidental" and it's a by-product of this type of master keying. The more master pins you use, the more incidental keys you get. That means the lock is more vulnerable to picking, bumping, manipulation, and random outside keys. The lesson to be learned here is to use as few master pins as possible.
The problem there is that it's far easier to decode the master key bitting with just one lock core from anywhere in the system. Designers have to balance between protecting against external threats and protecting against threats with access to the inside. It depends what kind of structure you're setting up.
Imagine you have 15 differents locks with 1 key for each and only one master key for all these locks. If you have the combination of the 15 keys, is it possible to guess the combination of the master key ?
Absolutely yes. That's one of the reasons master keying is less secure. Someone could figure out what the master key is, make their own, and then they have access to everything. That's why it's generally a bad idea to use master keying on an apartment building. Master keying is more appropriate for offices.
@@sbunny8 it's also a bad idea because losing that key on the property and someone figures it out, you're looking at thousands of dollars to re-key every single door in the building.
What if you want a Master key to work all locks in a building and then you have "A" key to work every lock in the building except the Master Lock. Then you need a "B" key to work every lock in the building except "A" and Master locks and finally a "C" key to work only "C" locks? How the heck do you pin this?! Thanks!
What you're describing is a four level system: change key, master key, grand master key, and great-grandmaster key. Usually, we label the keys AA1, AA, A, and GGM. At minimum, you need master pins in three chambers. The AA1 change key (which you called "C") is different from the GGM key in all three of those chambers. Then the AA master (which you called "B") is the same as the GGM in one of those chambers and the same as the AA1 change key in the other chambers. Finally, the A grand master key is the same as the the GGM in one more of those chambers, and the same as the AA master key in the others. Here's an example: GGM 345612 A 345812 AA 345832 AA1 345834 Locks pinned for AA1 will have master pins in chambers 4, 5, and 6. Those locks will work with all four keys. Locks pinned for AA will have master pins in chambers 4 and 5. Those locks will work with GGM, A, and AA, but not AA1. Locks pinned for A will have a master pin in chamber 4 only. Those locks will work with GGM and A but not AA or AA1. Locks pinned for GGM will have no master pins at all and will only work with the GGM key.
That didn't really explain Masterkeying??? You showed how 32 different keys could open that lock (when all you want is two) but didn't explain how a single master-key can open dozens of otherwise unique locks
or you just rep in your lock cause let's be honest I'm renting this property it's MINE AND my landlord has no need to be wandering into my apartment without my knowledge so well just disable his master key and he can be happy with asking me for access
>I'm renting this property >it's MINE Pick one. When you rent something you do not gain any legal ownership of that thing, you get permission to use that thing. If someone rents you a house it's not your property, it's HIS property which he lets you use.
You either are an authority for a master keyed system or you are not. If you are then you should already know the locksmith to call if you want more cut. If you do not, then you are asking for something that cannot be made. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a universal master key or a skeleton key that will open more than a single system.
