All the BW terrans are sleeping on ghosts....remember they have a ranged stun on ALL mechanical units! Also I have three words for you to try out Uthermal: Stim Firebat Drops...you'll love the results :D
Also from i've seen, a lot of BW terrans seem to be using mech just to see if it can work and they tend to just flop. BW bio with the extremely quick stim+medic combo is kind of nuts in comparison and might be the single strongest opening timing attack in the game.
Btw, Goliath AA is really upgrade reliant. They have 2 attacks with +2 each for a total of +4 per upgrade; +3 Goliaths do 32 damage while +0 Goliaths do 20 damage. It's over 50% increase to their damage (and similarly, enemy armor is efficient against them). So if you need to kill Battlecruisers, Goliaths ARE actually a great option (though in BW Terran mostly went Battlecruiser themselves), but you'll have to start your vehicle weapon upgrades early and micro them at max range. And you need a LOT of them. They're only 2 supply each, you can get 50+ of them easily enough. Supply-for-supply they actually do quite reasonably against BC though as long as you use their range (Battlecruiser's DPS grows a ton if it gets to shoot freely).
@@civil5737 idk, in plat I struggled to even get back 100 pop, these people are maxing out on the right units, that counter a lot of comps. Also when I was plat I didn't even know how to counter units correctly, I just did the same build over and over again regardless of unit counters. Wasn't until I understood the game and learned different counters then I went to diamond/masters. Doesn't mean good players aren't in lower leagues I do agree just I see this on Hera's YT a lot, they are "1000" solo but can keep up and with macro score from hera. That just doesn't add up.
@@Pico141 Yeah but it's a lot harder to defend in general. If your build isn't optimized you can just die accidentally even if your general mechanics are good. Take terran pushes against toss for example: I still struggle against them as a masters player, and even a silver player knows how to reactor out marines and tanks, and even if it hits later, it will be hard to hold unless you know what to do
Everyone has had so much more experience in sc2 now. People understand the game way better and not a lot of casual players play multiplayer ladder compared to when it came out. And new players have much better guides and builds to follow since the scene has matured over the last decade
19:00 That moment when they pin your wraiths up against the wall of turrets was super hype actually, my brain immediately shot with adrenaline when I saw them pop out of the fog
Brood war marines and medics with tank support is a good counter to thors. And actually Goliaths are great anti-air units, they deal good damage vs air and have a ton of range, but you have to research the extra range just like marines. Flash'a bread and butter is marine/medic, tanks and vultures. You got too much emphasis on vultures. Brood war Terran also have firebats vs the swarming sc2 lings. You should go back and look at some of Flash's games.
Cool games, thhank you. Why do you never build ghosts? Lockdown ability seems op vs mech. Also if you put a medic or two in a dropship you can still heal your marines in the field.
This was nostalgic, I used to build a whole bunch of wraiths to try and deny expansions. And then I would use dropships to sneak the ghost onto the high ground near the mineral line for a fat nuke. Ah childhood
not sure about evo mod, but 1 thing you might find interesting is that spidermines can target cloaked units even without detector. It's used by bw pros to counter dt rushes, without needing to alter their build order to get early detection, and hence being economically behind. in bw, goliaths are considered the terran's answer vs air. they are 50 gas(compared to wraiths 100), per upgrade gets +2(x2) compared to wraiths(+2 once) and with charon boosters have 9 range. but love these sc evo videos. thank you!
I love your vids! I'd love to see more BW Terran abilities in a future video: EMP from Science Vessels, and Lockdown from Ghosts. Those used to annoy the crap out of me back in BW! 😉
Dude how the hell do you play and talk so much at the same time son competently at both? It’s crazy. Also I’m digging your channel as someone who previously only watches broodwar
That would be a challenge if you limit the resolution to something small for his monitor. You'd have to set three limitations; no more than 1024x768 windowed game resolution, no larger than 27" monitor and no lower than 4k desktop resolution. Perhaps even require 800x600 game resolution, but on a 4k monitor, 1024x768 is tiny (I got a 27" 4k monitor. Anything less than 2k resolution windowed mode and it's unplayable), so that may already be too punishing.
Yes. I watched a replay on another RU-vidrs channel and the Terran player spiked so many expansions with spider mines. The workers don't trigger the mines, so they have to build detectors, or fly them all the way over, or trigger them with a real ground unit, rather than a hovering unit like workers, high Templar, or archons (dark and regular). I could be wrong though and only workers don't trigger spider mines. Those units I listed were also immune in sc1 though.
I recommend you do this again, but play as BW Protoss. Build Dark Archons and Mind Control your opponents' workers. Now you can build all three races, make 600 supply and you might be able to take on better opponents. (You have mentioned it is not easy getting silver opponents.)
I think the strategy needs to be more ambitious to win 1vs4 and exploit the poor defense of silver players: Do a small and quick 2 rax bio attack, follow up with mass vulture mining most of the map and all potential enemy expansion spots, and raiding on all opponents (use rax'es to scout) while going into 5-6 base mech with mech upgrades and mass tanks aiming for a 180 supply killing push w. a few cloaked wraiths as anti air and to protect science vessels that irradiate clumps of enemy units and themselves to quickly take out their worker lines and use later use emp on protoss armies before the tank fights. If you can take out one opponent completely and keep them on less than half the map with a siege line+turrets, but the tank push is unlikely to win, a yamato battlecruiser transition could help.
biggest bw advantages are ui and engine improvements in sc2 engine, you could not select 2 buildings at the same time in broodwar. '98 sc is more clunky, and i love wraith's ;d anti carrier unit, just snipescan observers ;d
Calling yourself a Broodwar pro.... Call your Grandmaster friends and petition Blizzard to make a Brood War ladder on this engine, climb the ladder up, then call yourself a pro! (I just really want to play Brood War on this engine for realzies)
Well now. This feels like those BW Melee maps where you have to hold out against 7 AI opponents... Actually, can you use the mode to fight against 7 Extreme AI?
05:45 I think you're clumping the spider mines up too much, getting overkill on the lings. Fewer would do just as effectively and if placed at intervals and in depth, some ought to remain. Earlier when you didn't know where'd they go, from the minimap it looked like one ling triggering three mines (overkill indeed).
The one Terran was prob plat...no silver is 9k/4k max BC with 5 bases 100 turrets under 20 mins. Gold MAYBE if you're terrible at dealing with pressure. I think 4 true silvers uThermal can do it
The Mass Recall mod has been around for ages, and let's you play the sc1 and bw campaigns in the SC2 engine. There is even a mod to let you play the warcraft 3 campaign in the sc2 engine.
@@TheChesnutCafe Wow, I didn't know that! I grew up with SC1 and BW and I'd definitly love to replay it - but I am just spoiled by SC2 and can't go back to the mechanics in SC1. Your recommendation is much appreciated, I'll definitly use this to replay SC1 :)
Thing is that silvers dont know how to defend against a GM's harrass, so if the GM pushes back 2 attack timings eight minutes then they just have two seperate fights which they easily win. Technically the best rush would be idk 2-3 cannon rushes and one 12 pool rush at the exact same time, nothing a gm could do about that, but its also not fun.
Hi Marc, I really enojoy your videos. I had an idea, maybe someone already suggest this to you or maybe you don't think this is funny, but do you remember the PiG 1vs10 IA speed run? I played it after watching your video with the PF and eventually I manage to beat all the IA. And today I just played with this mod, is so different, I went sc2 terran vs all BW IA. Dragoons just erase my defense. This is the video from a year or so ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2cdZQYGMeEw.html
I wonder...if you play as SC1 Protoss, got a Dark Archon, and mind controlled an SC2 builder, would you build SC2 tech with that builder? Would it do the SC1 thing where, if you do this in SC1, each race has its own supply tracker, but they share resources?
in BW every race has its own supplys. so if you play protoss you can actually have 600 supply. but in SC 2 its shared. at least not in the campaign its not. already try it with zerg neural parasite and alSo darK archons in 3rd campaign ( protoss). so i have no ideea how they made the mod, but i do know that they did some balance to it bc BW its too OP. it was design with the clunky units in mind so they OP to make up for that( some of them). if i had to guess i think they dont allow you to have over 200 no matter what race.But it should ! i mean if you dumb enough to lose an worker , EVIL VOICE : you must pay !
I think if SC2 really wants to win they'll always win because sc2 has some ridiculous units that you can't really counter with brood war races, in macro games I'm not quite sure ^^
@@uThermal I played BW back in the days and my guess would be: In late-game games, SC1 could have the edge in this mod. Why? Because some mechanics like Spellcaster are way stronger in SC1 than in SC2. Same goes for stuff like Zerg Hatcheries. In SC1 it is balanced with "horrible" mechanics in mind. Using spellcasters in SC1 is way harder than in SC2 (and that's why way less efficient) Building from 10 hatcheries is way harder (and takes much longer) than it is in SC2. Because you couldn't hotkey all hatcheries, you had to select them manually. But in this mod, we get to play them with the superior mechanics of SC2. -> This should give the SC1 races an advantage (if they get to the late game of course.) But this is only my theory and I am unskilled. Your thoughts about this?
@@wedgeantilles8575 Just the opposite, I think. Brood war units are pound for pound stronger than SC2 units, but they are inflexible and really bad at map control. Worse still, they don't mass well and require enormous amounts of micro to make good use of each individual ability. What this usually results in is one of two results: 1) the brood war units brute force their way in and destroy everything before it becomes a problem. 2) the SC2 units get all their tech and abilities and just out last and out maneuver the brood war units.
