About dirty chains, i had an incident when i was working in a shop. This guy came in with a problem that his chain was jumping but only on the lowest gear. I started diagnosing the problem and found out that his dìrty chain was in fact so dirty that the gap between the 1st and 2nd sprocket was completely full of dirt, it was compacted because of the chain's pressure. The chain was sitting only half the depth of the teeth in the sprocket. As soon as i cleaned the space between the sprockets everything worked like a charm.
That happened to me 2 weeks ago from leaves. 11T was slipping out just as you say mid ride, ended up just using a small stick to remove the leaves between the 11T and 13T and back to normal. Before I had a look I was scared but just no place for stuff to go between those smallest gears.
I was doing some work on my partners kids bikes after they said ‘I can only use 5 of the 6 gears’.... the first sprocket was not only cover in mud, I couldn’t find it. I took the mud off and could see the outline of the sprocket!
When I get a new chain, I keep the quick link from the old chain on my bike with a tube, tire levers, etc. Even though they are "single use", I figure it will get me (or a riding buddy) home.
Every time I clean my bike I take the chain off via quick link and shake it around in a tupperware pot with some degreaser... Never been able to get it proper clean any other way. I guess I'm committing two sins.
Works just fine for a while, but when it's worn out.... I find if the roller falls out of the middle of the chain it won't hold. It's probably time for a new chain anyway.
I actually messed up a few days ago when I installed a new chain and I wasn't paying attention while passing the chain through the rear derailleur and like you showed I ended up passing it over one of those tabs. I then noticed that for some reason I couldn't shift into my highest gear. I was just adjusting my derailleur earlier today because of this and kept hearing a clicking noise no matter how much I adjusted it, finally after about 15 minutes I noticed what i had done. I am installing a whole new groupset on Monday so I'm definitely going to pay attention this time.
Moreover most of the chains are covered with such a sticky grease that it's going to form grind paste during 1st ride. My colleague following chain producer recommendations didn't clean the chain and after a couple of of MTB racing wore the chain to .5 on new xtr cassette. I've been always cleaning up the chain before waxing it and my chains have barely .2 of wear after riding 100s of hours in various conditions including winter, mostly XC, where you have 1000s gear shifts per race/ride! Using xx1 and ybn chains in various colors (to distinguish which chain is for what bike and what chainring) and 1295 cassettes. I am a bit tempted to buy one of these fancy KMC chains and follow their advice to not to clean the chain before 1st use. Of course i won't be able to use wax. I am wondering if they will reimburse me the cost of premature wear of the drivetrain if it will happen (and it will for sure - check test from zfc!).
Great vid. Wax lubes were dismissed too superficially - an unusual error mate. They have their place, pros and cons. In the correct situation, they are better than wet or dry. I’ll leave it to you for right of reply as to when wax has value.
@@hodgo1981 Thanks. As a result of your advice Ive researched this - I’m a science based professional who’s been a reviewer for a major scientific journal, so I know how to do this. And guess what, you’re correct haha! This vid is directly addressed - trashed? - in the post I’ve linked to below. And the full independent data on how to care for a chain is to be found on the website. Of course, being good engineering science, there’s masses of information. Hopefully, it won’t be dismissed by those who quite reasonably don’t have time to read it all. If you have 10 minutes, enjoy this and consider posting to Doddy as the author requests. zerofrictioncycling.com.au/latest-zero-friction-cycling-news-factory-grease/
Hi Doddy, thanks again for your informative videos, much appreciated. I live in Australia and ride where the terrain in mainly sandstone. I’ve found the factory grease attracts sand and grit like bees to a honey pot and results in a very gritty drivetrain in no time. Personally I’ve found the best solution is to completely degrease the chain to remove all grease and then use a good quality dry or wet lube depending on the weather.
I had the same problem, no matter what the weather or terrain is, with KMC chains, the factory lubricant can converts to a glue and impregnates everything in such anoying way, that it is very difficult to wipe off, I had to clean mi cassette and chainrings with a microfiber cloth and alcohol; and for the chain, hot water and hard degreasing soap for a long time... Never again leave the factory lubricant on any chain...
I make my own wax base lube been doing it for decades with great success from mud to the Desert racers, here in Australia. 🇦🇺👍 People need to learn how to clean a chain and drive line properly. Noooooo... You need to Degrees and Clean any new chain!!! Remove all oil base lube!!! Then Wax a new chain from the start in a wax bath slow cooker. Learn to clean and lube with a wax base lube after big rides. Problem solved. 👍👍👍 Of course the Chain company told you that as they want to sell more chains down the track.
KMC 9 speeder chains and power links absolutely brilliant!! Used these for many years and show they are robust. Tryed other chains seem to break. Stick to what you know and don't go back to the other.. 😊 🚲
I've also always re-used chain links and never had an issue ever. The single-use thing is a wasteful scam. Nothing breaks on them when you unclip them, nothing is damaged and they are just fine to re-use.
If you re-use your quick-links a lot like I do (I wax my chain so it's a weekly thing) you run into the risk of your chain falling apart when going down a trail or snapping open as you pedal or worse case scenario, snapping as you put power on the pedals standing up, that can lead to very serious injury. Still, you can re-use them safely if you follow some minimal precautions: 1)Do not re-use an old chainlink with a new chain. Even if it looks fine, don't. This is more a matter of wear and tear, the old link will have the same wear as the pins on the old chain and you will have a wonky new chain with that one slightly longer link that will cause unnecessary wear on your drivetrain, even noise. New chain? new link. If the old one feels good don't discard it, keep it in your emergency kit, give it away to a mate in need. 2)New links are a bitch to break open, a tool like in the video is nice but you can open them using a piece of brake cable, after 8 or so times they can be broken using just your fingers, this is fine, you can continue to use them dozens of times more. 3)You should inspect your links every single time carefully after they become easy to break by hand. When they loose their bite that means they are old and you should have a replacement on you at all times. You want to look at the pins, any sign of pitting or trenching and the link should be discarded, this can take a very long time to show up, several months usually (remember, I break my links 4 times per month minimum), your tolerance with this should be next to zero. 4)Before undoing your chain for whatever reason, give it "the dance" at the link area, that is, to bend the chain sideways 5-10 times in an attempt to make the pin slip sideways at the quick-link, apply some force, not much. It should not do that, it should behave the same as the rest of the pins and stay in place, if the pin is gonna come loose it will do it under not much force at all. If it does, replace it. (I've seen this happen once in 5 years, pitting happens first). You can successfully wear out a chain using 3-4 links, and again, that's coming from someone that soaks his chain in a wax pot every Saturday.
@@Mylity66 If you're having to break the same chain multiple times then there's another, much bigger issue - i.e. the riding. If you're breaking/damaging your chain/drivetrain so much that you need to break the same chain lots of times before you buy a new one (or drivetrain part), that's the problem.
@@flippy66 He is hot waxing his chain in a pot, it is not recommended to do that with the chain still on the bike. As to the necessity of doing it every week, we do not know his conditions and distances. If he has the time and likes the process, who are we to judge? More sustainable than buying new cassettes frequently because of a dirty drive train.
A bad chain break happened to me just the other day. I shortened my chain prior to riding and I thought that having it too short may have caused this - but after watching this video I'm now thinking it's because I re-used one of the pins when rejoining the chain! In any case, when the chain snapped, it somehow threw the derailleur into the spokes. You can guess how that ended.
Hold up. KMC make chains. How do we know this isn't a carefully plotted means of making us ruin chains so KMC can sell us more chains? 😉 Excellent video and actually pretty informative.
@@jimbo80982 honestly dude, it's 4am, hot as balls and instead of sleep I'm rewatching GMBN and debating if I should drop £115 on a colourful KMC chain. In fairness, they coat their chains better than SRAM and Shimano, they'll last.
Don't forget the easy way to check chain length without a specific chain tool; with a steel rule measure the links up to 12" (brand new chain), if the chain measures 12 1/8" then it's knackered. Replace before it reaches that point and you may get away with not changing the cassette at the same time. EDIT: I've just found this other alternative method on a forum I visit and have copied it: I'm happy to use a 12" ruler but I know some folk are not happy with this method and would prefer some kind of unequivocal measurement. Below I have written up a method which might fit the bill. All you need is a set of 6" digital Vernier calipers (typical cost £12-20 for a basic version) which many cyclists will have already or find very useful for other purposes. Step 1. Zero the caliper. Whilst taking a between rollers measurement (BRM), set the caliper to zero in the 'inches' range. Step 2. Take the measurement. Slide the caliper out to an indicated ~4.9" and then take a measurement between the LH roller as before and the appropriate RH roller. Step 3. Do the calculation. An unworn chain should measure almost exactly 5.000" on this test, (but +/- 0.005" isn't unusual even on new chain) Any excess over that represents pin wear in the chain. Thus a 1% worn chain will measure 5.050", and a 0.5% worn chain will measure 5.025", and so on. The chain below is (with the caliper re-zeroed for that chains BRM value) +0.043" so is almost 0.9% worn. Checks and balances: There are additional checks that you can do if you want; 1) Check uniformity of roller wear. With the calipers zeroed as step 1, you can check other roller gaps. With 1/8" chain using most verniers you can check any chain gap, but with derailleur chain you can only check between outer side plate links (as per the photos) unless you modify your verniers by grinding the internal jaws to make them slimmer than normal. Most worn chains I have checked thus show remarkably uniform roller spacing, but if a (singlespeed) chain is used on even tooth count rings/sprockets, every other link may wear differently. 2) Check uniformity of chain wear. You can repeat steps 1-3 as many times as you can be bothered to do along the chain length. If the chain you are measuring shows uniform BRM then you can take measurements without having to re-zero the caliper each time. 3) check roller wear. In the image below you can see the difference in BRM as measured using a short length of unused chain of the same type (KMC 'inox'). You can see that the roller wear is ~0.024" different between new and used chains. Had this been included in the main wear measurement, this arguably would have constituted a >50% error. Even new chains show a variation of +/- 0.25mm (~0.010") in this measurement, due to small variations in roller OD and bushing clearances. So there you have it; I think this method may be a both simple and effective one for keeping track of chain wear. Having said that, I don't think it adds much to the results you can get by simply using a ruler, but not everyone is happy to do that. The vernier method arguably has a flaw (which it shares with all commercial chain checkers, pretty much) in that it relies on the rollers being free to move in the normal way that occurs when the chain is in use. For various reasons this might not always happen. NB I have taken these measurements on short lengths of loose chain, but there it is probably best if the measurements are taken whilst the chain is still on the bike. For example if the chain is very dirty, whilst the chain is still in its usual position, (just used) the rollers will be able to assume their usual positions without difficulty, but once the chain is removed or otherwise disturbed, dirt in the rollers may affect the measurement. For this reason, some folk advocate cleaning the chain before you measure it. If you are going to remove it and clean it anyway, why not.... but if you are not, it means that you will regularly waste your time cleaning a chain that is actually headed for the bin.... cheers
You must have all day to think of ways to waste your time, spend $8 ( for a chain tool) and be done with all the nonsense, always measure chain wear with chain under slight tension, easily done with any chain checker, nearly impossible with your method, unless you want to make it a group project. This would be considered a measurement that is not hyper-critical such as derailleur cable tension or front derailleur height and attitude. A slight wear is that, just slight wear, the bike still performs as it should and it's simply telling you to stay aware of this issue and get a new chain when and if the tool indicates you should.
Thank you very much. One of the few videos actually mentioning degreasing a new chain and what to do. Ive seen so many guides/tutorials where they just put on the new chain and maybe show how to measure the correct length but noone every states what to do with the factory grease.
I bought a custom made mountain bike with no experience previously, and the guy that built it I found oddly enough had no grease on the chain it was just a light oil, it rides so much smoother with no grease.
I have found that (though it was 11 years old) my master link literally slipped apart, and on one occasion came apart (easy fix obviously). Moral of the story? Replace them occasionally.
I re-use quick links so often that my only rule is if I can undo them with my fingers then it's time for a new link, and that's only been once since 2010.
I love your videos. I'm a self-taught bike guy/mechanic, been at it for about 27 years. There are still things I don't know, and I use your videos to supplement that and learn more. I'm getting into e-bikes, but I still have my little Haro Roscoe that has served me well, I'm probably going to be investing some of this new knowledge into it. Thanks again, and keep spreading that wealth of knowledge and experience!
5:20 Warn rollers don't change the pitch, and are not a problem. It's the wear on the links and pins where the link rotates around the pin that results in the increase in pitch.
I ALWAYS use KMC and they did (I hasten to add "did") an amazing ceramic lube and a double sided brush to scrub out the grit and on the other side of the brush massage the lube into the chain. Seems they discontinued it for some reason?
@@tonysadler5290 Have YOU ever tried to remove that "packaging grease" from NEW chain? Especialy with some spray and towel?!.. Try it yourself - more tea - ...
I live in SoCal and do wax year round. Sure would be nice for you to give the wax some love on the channel. Seems as though you avoid it like the plague. It’s an excellent method of lube for certain locations or times of year. Let’s see you do a little piece on it so that everyone has full knowledge of what available.
I agree. Been using a paraffin wax and added Teflon and molybdenum disulfide in there as well. Important I think to make sure the chain is totally degreased before dipping in the wax, I found it just doesn't penetrate and stick if there's any lube or factory grease in there. Then it seems to last for ages. Did 100km through mud, grit, sand, water etc during some particularly bad weather in the new forest, chain was even clean after that, hardly any residue of the day's activity coming off in the hand.
It is hard to believe content espousing keeping factory grease on chain is still being put out by high profile tech content creators who frankly should know a lot better by now. A lot of independent testing has been done, starting with friction facts, and continued on by zero friction cycling - with regard to factory grease vs top lubricant choices, as well as the difference between meh / poor lubricants & top lubricants. Watts savings aside, the wear rate & cost to run difference is quite frankly huge. Leave factory grease on vs cleaning and using a top lubricant choice such as mspeedwax, Silca SS, Tru-Tension Tungsten All weather, smoove etc - and be assured within short order you will be wearing through your chain, cassette and chain ring at a rate many times greater. Considering the cost of higher tier cassettes, chains, chain rings, this will really hurt the hip pocket, not to mention, ripping through components at triple the rate or more vs top lubricant choices is plain wasteful. All the top lubricant choices require factory grease (which is there for anti corrosion for packing) to be removed so that the lubricant can bond to clean, clear chain metal and form a very low friction, low wear chain coating that is extremely clean and resistant to contamination / becoming a grinding paste. Such lubricants also need VASTLY lower (some basically nil) periodic cleaning maintenance to remain exceptionally clean day in day out, so you save on time and periodic maintenance costs as well. It is hard to fathom that gmbn would not have done some basic fact checking with the likes of Jason Smith or ZFC to get input from both sides of the equation and then make a decision on balanced content vs going with pure marketing content from a manufacturer. Im guessing this was sponsored by kmc.
This needs more thumbs up. Should not be buried since its important to know the truth and not marketing fluff from KMC. As said the manufacturing grease/oil is basically designed for shelf life (anti rust etc) and not to give you an efficiently running drivetrain. I would suggest maybe do a run in for like 30 minutes then strip the chain clean with white spirits or similar, get all the tiny metal bits that have been worn off the rough edges out and then apply your favourite lube/wax. Nothing - absolutely nothing beats hot melt waxing your chain but you can get away with drip waxes now as well. Do not do a "how to avoid mistakes" then outright tell silly things like this GMBN.
They did state it was sponsored...you didn't have to guess. But I am about to become a wax convert. Been watching your vids, biggest lure for me is not getting black grease on me every time I touch the chain.
You told us to avoid misplacing the chain on the wrong side of the metal tab on the derailleur, but I didn't see an explanation of how to determine that you're on the right side. Thank you.
Wasn't really aware of people taken the grease off a new chain as , well it's a pointless exercise and I've seen some friends bikes and they complain about noises and I !lol at them and think'hows about cleaning the bike after each time it's getting use, great video and especially for this time of the year.
I've read info from multiple sources that the grease that comes on new chains is just for packaging purposes, and that that grease makes a very poor lubricant to actually run on your bike. Is this information correct?
Pretty sure you are right. That sticky stuff attracts all the dirt and is really bad for the chain and the rest of the drivetrain. I bet you do like me an remove that stuff assp.
Been using the same chain for 8 years. And before you say I don’t ride my bike think again. When I purchased my Specialized full suspension MTB new many years years ago I was riding every weekend. It all comes down to chain maintenance. This translates to cleaning/washing, drying, and re-lubricating it frequently.
Hey, thx for the effort mate. But I'm of the mind these days that with metal coating that comes on many chains, for more $$, is a better way to go, than constant oiling. The inside surfaces of the wheel/axles that you showed is where the wear occurs. So an NiB coated chain, with some occasional lube for corrosion and some lube assist, should be about all that's needed today. I'm in dry dessert, mostly, so not much rust aside from condensation from darkness temps anyway... It's a bit of snake oil these days. O-ring chains are used on dirt motorcycles, and that's more friction than wanted on a bicycle, but we can make a better chain with today's tech. And then there's belt drive!
Recently bought a bike with kmc X10 and black inner links. After several years in storage the paint turned into chewing gum and stuck the side plates together. Even the missing link was glued to the sade plates. Not knowing what the problem was I soaked the chain in muck off then worked each link free before rinsing, drying then lubing. I would say avoid painted chains.
If you want your chain and entire drivetrain to last longer, do immersive waxing. I’ve never replaced a drivetrain. And chains last me thousands of miles. And it’s fine if it gets wet. Ya just gotta rewax more often if riding in wet conditions. It also keeps your drivetrain very clean and fast
@@dennishermey5873 haha ya I’d say live and learn but I’m still living life on the edge.I haven’t bought myself a kit to strap on my bike yet to keep a few parts and tools with me. The kids at the bike shop I went too for the spare chain and chain link were a little too much for me to handle and I had to grab what I needed and get out lol.
iv changed a chain once after about 6 weeks of use when my chain tool said its almost time to change chains, put a new chain on and my chain was slipping, i ended up changing everything to stop the slipping, since then i dont even bother testing the chain, once my parts wear out i will change them, iv had the same chain on one bike for 4 years and 5 years on my other, still no sing of any issues
Use wax. Best decision I made. MSpeedwax brand is greaf. I go hundreds of miles between re-wax. Drive train is perfectly clean all the time. I do all my friends now at once when I heat the crock pot. Takes a few minutes per chain.
@@stevek8829 Get a Quick Link for your chain and I recommend a quick link removal and install tool. With the pot, wax, tools you are maybe in $50. It is so worth it. Follow instructions on stripping the chain of oil....don't skimp on that. Has to be bare metal. Then it is easy streets.
On average I get about 5 chains to a drivetrain. I replace my chains at 0.5mm. Running 1x 10 & 11 speed in all sorts of UK conditions, I tend to wear chains pretty rapidly. I personally feel that running a chain to 0.75mm wear on a 1x system is too far gone and chainrings usually die way too early. 0.5mm wear allows me to get lots of use from my chainrings and cassettes. My cleaning and lubing regime is spot on as I pretty much do everything Doddy says here to the letter. I use dry lube all year round. I prefer to clean and lubricate after a mucky ride, than have a thick black grinding paste all over it from wet lube.
Thank you! That was a great presentation! I am not so good with all the details of maintaining a bike with lots of gears.... and a few days ago, my chain jumped off the gears! It was just hanging there.... and my dilemma was: which sprocket wheel (front and back) is the correct one to place it back on? So far, I have not figured it out. I just picked one... but it won't give me all gear changes since... so I am just riding without using the different gears. I've been looking to find a video where I can learn how to install it on the right set of sprockets... on my Schwinn Crossroads Specialized, a hybrid bike from 1992, there are multiple gears on both the pedal and the rear wheel side.... makes it even harder to pick the right combination! If there is someone out there who has pity on me and my dilemma... lots of gratitude will be flowing your way from me! Over the years, I have not ridden much lately, and in the earlier years, I would just drop it off at the local bike shop and let them take care of it. Now that I want to do it myself, I am stuck with this stressful situation! Please, help!
17:38 I use this brush for cleaning grips. 👌 But I use a Grunge brush for the drivetrain it has 3 brushes surrounding the chain, and I switch positions, it works really well, much faster and easier than the ones that are a box you poour degreaser into to.
A hot dip in a combination of cooking paraffin and motor oil provides better lubrication than any market solution and it lasts years. For road riders, the chain will seldom need cleaning because this hot-dip lube doesn't attract dirt.
I de grease mine then soak it in hot periffin wax. It takes a bit more time but it keeps it spotless and I haven't had any issues with lubrication. I hear you can add ptf powder too
I bike along the shore and didn't wash my bike upon going home. The next day, my chain, sprocket, etc had rust on them!!! I used a rust converter on them (Turko). The rust were gone but I don't know if what I did harmed my transmission.
i have been riding the same old 24 speed full suspension mountain bike since about 2002. i put a hub motor on the rear and i had to change the gear set for the rear. wow, my old stuff was worn out, but it all wore out evenly so i didnt notice until i put one new part in, now crap isnt right, and i have to change the front chain ring and chain now. i have no idea how many miles i put on that drive train, but it must be close to at least 7k miles. i only oiled it once every few years with 3 in 1 oil. back in the day i used expensive bike chain oil, but wasnt convinced it was doing anything, so i switched over the the cheap common stuff
You should realy try wax lube for mtb because it's better in dry wheather and almost as good in the wet an it's durable and easier too clean than wet and dry lube furthermore it has in general a lower coeficient of friction than tradional lube and does not require degreaser to clean, it has a few drawback yes but i think that they are negligable compared to the advantages .
I haven't had this problem but it may be because I clean the chain and cassette with a brush and warm water, because with cool water it uncleanable . Or it's because I have a black cassette and can't see the filth ...😂
I fitted a new shimano chain to my road bike recently and misplaced the joining pin so I reused the sram quick link from my old chain. I reckon it'll be good to go until I next renew my chain. I'll then keep it as an emergency spare.
I wax the chain with a paraffin/WS2 mixture, my chain catches virtually no dirt, and, if rewaxed every 200km or so (depending on riding conditions), chain and transmission wear is a thing of the past. I have several thousand km of ebike use on it, the cassette has no wear, the chain has no detectable wear yet. Never going back to oil, the only possible scenario where oil would be better is in very cold weather on hard packed clean snow, when your chain has no chance to catch any dirt. Serious chain waxing is only possible with a connex link which is easy to open and reusable as long as the chain lasts. The waxing involves a quick wash of the chain in boiling water and soaking it in the molten wax blend thereafter. Worst part about chain waxing is to strip off the nasty factory oil with gasoline, soap and alcohol. After that, it's the dream.
Very informative, thanks ! I’ve recently upgraded my rear coil to a bigger travel , and have had to adjust my derailer, setting it closer to my spokes seemed to make things smoother , the geometry was changed a lot , higher bottom bracket which is a bonus , but now my head angle is less ( on a 120mm fork). Now I need a fork upgrade ! Any recommendations!? It’s old , and 26”. I will definitely be looking more closely at my gear and chain . Thanks guys
I didn't even know quick links were single use. I've been reusing for years, and they have been working just fine all along. Or perhaps I've just been lucky not to have one break on me.
If the chains ok but absoluty filled with crap, I soak them in fuel, old 2 stroke mix plus diesel and then soak them in ATF for a day to re oil them. Silky smooth and nice and shiny again.
Yeah think also just degreasing a new chain is the no go... I use a park tool chain cleaner with Peatys degreaser every month maybe a bit more then re lube the chain completely.... Does the trick
If you're degreasing it's for older chains or/and neglected chains. I wouldn't make it a routine at all. The issue is that you need to ensure *every* drop of degresser is removed before drying and lubing. I've done it once now that my chain is a year old. After degreasing, I scrubbed it in hot water and then poured hot water over it twice. I left in the house to dry. I then used iso alcohol spray... The hot water washed it clean and heated the metal which boosted drying time.
i have been re-using quick links for 15 years and i've only had one break in that time. i replace my chains every few months, though.. They get replaced with the chain every time.
Muc off lube is one of the worst lubes out there tested by Zero friction cycling.. also the original grease from factory does lead to lots of grime build according to the testing they have done
Routing the wrong side of that tab ... did that a few days ago. World of pain till I spotted it. (But I've only been riding a couple of months, so I claim newbie immunity 😜 )
