I hate the fact that DC changed Mr. Freeze's sad backstory. The newer one makes him look like a delusional loon. Being delusional can work for characters like the Mad Hatter, but Freeze was supposed to be sympathetic.
Wow. I'm a "Grammar Cop" and even I feel that that comment was uncalled for. It was OBVIOUSLY a typo. Everyone knows that autocorrect will change words if IT feels like you made a mistake. Mistakes can be forgiven, being a douche however....
Um, "kill Nightwing" was just DiDio spitballing in Infinite Crisis, and he planned to do it *because* it would disrupt the status quo. Thankfully, saner heads prevailed. Now, why they gave him an old Wonder Woman storyline from the 70s that nobody liked back when it first was published, I don't know.
Justice League DCAU TV Show: We understand Lanterns, Flashes, Hawks and Legionnaires are complicated, even in our own setting, but we're still going to give definitive versions everyone can get behind. DC Comics: Okay. I see what you did there. We're keeping none of that.
DCAU was in fact made by DC as WBA is subsidiary. Problem with DC comic is that they are grilled by Werner over income, what force them into idiotic decisions. They did have completely free hand in case of Animation, so they used it well.
@@ArmandoUlloa I don't think Wanderlustwarrior's point was that DC should've made the DCAU's universe their official canon. I think they were implying that the DCAU took the jumbled mess that was and still is DC comic's canon and found a way to make a definitive concrete universe out of it. And while the comics could've used this as an example on how you should establish a better, more comprehensive and easily digestible canon, they seem to be ignoring it. I know it's not a simple task to create a single canon for so many different books that are all going on simultaneously, but it sometimes doesn't even feel like they're trying to keep it straight at all. It feels like they've got a dart board with plot points as targets and character names on the darts and are just going nuts trying to make something stick.
@@ArmandoUlloa Not the point. DCAU was series what was close to comic at the time, being also slightly more modernized. Many people use it as example of how you should adopt some characters. Modern comic is broadly criticized by many fans as being too edgy and needlessly convoluted. What sadly strain on the movie adaptation, leading to disasters like early DCEU.
@@MoostachedSaiyanPrince "I know it's not a simple task to create a single canon for so many different books that are all going on simultaneously" Well.. MCU proved that it isn't that hard. Though according to my knowledge some rules they fallow were in fact established already in the comics themselves. People may joke about time travel in Endgame, but it is in fact something based on one of time travel theories, known as parallel timelines theory. What is quite efficient in solving grandpa paradox, by making time fixed (it is why they couldn't alter it). One of advantages of DC, on the other hand is that it allow more creative freedom. Specifically its comic books are written as so called hyper-verse. In fact lack of consistent canon is something existing by design. Problem is only that it serve them as excuse for laziness, as at least specific series (especially robots) should have at least some defined canon.
I understand, and agree, with the arguments against “GL: Rebirth” replacing Kyle Rayner with Hal Jordan again, considering how great Kyle’s book was prior to Rebirth, but the thing is that the way Hal was corrupted came completely out of nowhere and for literally no reason other than “let’s do something shocking to make money”. It’d be one thing if his corruption was built up over time and done in a way that made sense to his character, but nope, just, out of nowhere, Hal’s crazy and killing all his friends, so I’m more than happy they retconned that as not being his fault (and gave an explanation to that stupid grey hair).
You know George Lucas was reading that run. "Why is it taking so long for Hal to turn evil? Man, that's so unrealistic, I would be chopping up kids the first hour!"
Kinda thought it was already built up, everyone he knew and his family was dead and he was trying to cope by recreating them and Guardians just told him, "Nah son, that's breaking the rules", and I think he just broke. That's fairly understandable for just a normal person, but not so much for 'corrupting' purposes. The 'it was Parallax parasite all along' thing is just a cheap way to preserve a bankable character. They can do the most heinous shit possible, as long as it isn't their fault entirely, then it's okay. The video is right tho, any of the other GL's are MONUMENTALLY more interesting personality wise than Hal, but they just keep bringing that plain ol whitebread back. I'd love for anyone else to fully take it over and replace him in movie or series adaptations.
I don't want to correct you, but Clark Kent and Lois Lane were also survivors of the post-Crisis continuity. They had a child and moved far away from Metropolis during the New 52 era so that they would not be mistaken for the New 52 Clark Kent and Lois Lane. Eventually, the old Superman continuity was merged with selected bits of the new 52 continuity, but it is still confusing as to what is what.
@@talkanders6058 that Lois and Clark series was great... it added stakes for Superman... it didn't matter how powerful he was or the villian he had to do all his "super heroing" while making sure no one saw him or found out about him. It was fantastic
@@dzzyvilanova560 Not true. The kid wouldn't have any exposure to sunlight until born. He's just dormant until he's out in the world. Think like a comic book, seriously.
Oi! Superboy Prime Punch gave us Red Hood. No matter how ridiculous the reason, and no matter how "some Bat fans" (aka Ewan) hate him, it was worth it.
They could redo those story's but if the universe is completely different then that makes no sense... say if Jay Garrick is from earth 1 then how can the Flash of two earth's story work... or if you retcon the Arrowverse to be in continuity with the DCEU! Now you have, 2 flashes and a Batman that is a public menace and one that no one knows about! You could merge them into one character but that doesnt work! If Barbara was never Oracle how is she Oracle?
My bad, I wasn't clear. The video title implies this was a hated retcon, when it was arguably the best thing to happen to GL lore. Retcons can go either way, yeah, but I've never heard someone complain about this one.
@@Kyru82 Indeed. Because there's nothing to complain about. I never thought there'd be another Justice League member as badass as Batman (though Wonder Woman and Aquaman do try) until I read Johns' Green Lantern run and Hal's Rebirth issues.
I loved Jason Todd. I didn’t know that his resurrection was so disliked. The super punch was stupid, but I’m glad to have the Red Hood. Red Hood and the Outlaws was one of the only series I liked in the New 52.
I loved Wally West but god I can't stand when his fanboys whine about me liking Barry more. "Why? Barry is not funny and not as fast as Wally". I don't give a shit. I grew up with both and I like Barry cause I find him the most relatable speedster on what a personal life of being a speedster would be like in real life.
Wally is my favorite and Barry is my fourth favorite DC hero. But I can see what you mean. A lot of people only like Wally as Flash but don't seem to care as much about him when he's not Flash.
Wait wait wait wait You mean to tell me you have a *DIFFERENT OPINION* Seriously though i think any whiny fans are just a problem in general but to be fair, Wally West was ignored for years so that's probably what makes them so whiny in the first place. Still doesn't excuse them.
@@phantomknight6428 I understand what they mean. Like I said I love Wally. I just like Barry more. But his fanboys can't accept that. They would shit on me at times I mentioned why I love Barry. Like I'm the new kid in town not knowing nothing about the classic 90s and early 2000s. Kinda like those John Stewart fans who consider you racist of you're more of a Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner fan.
Uh, the Green Lantern Rebirth retcon was actually not that controversial. A lot of people, especially those who thought that Hal was essentially given the shaft during the 90s, welcomed that retcon. I mean, really? Does anyone really need to wonder why maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to take a hero people had loved for decades and transform him into a megalomaniac?
Swanay Mohanty when he says murdered i’m pretty he means in the context of destroying everything he was supposed to be instead of what he turned out to be in the story
At least Wally is getting a solo miniseries soon, and hopefully DC manages to actually give a shit about him. I think sometimes DC forgets that Barry isn't everyone's Flash
@@justinpullen1097 I'll give Lobdell a chance since he can be good and Happy Death Day proves he can still be good. That said: I don't know that I want to give mopey post-HiC Wally my money; that wasn't at all what Wally was about.
There is also what they did to Lobo, trashing his Main Man look for something out of the Prince of Persia series looks wise and turning him from a bombastic anti hero to an unfitting tragic figure who didn't wipe out his race for a high school science project but being forced to do it due to his king's insanity.
It's almost like they tried to make him a real character instead of a cheap, tacky joke. FOR SHAME! But really, Lobo can go away forever. The man man's usually a poor man's Deadpool (compensating intergalactic flair for his empty personality) and this retcon actually made him interesting.
@@seymourglass26 Even if, why retcon caricature on the first place? At least in case of TMNT what make them popular was cartoon adaptation. So modern adaptations are of it. But Lobo? It did make as much sense as turning Deadpool in example of virtues.
Barbara should be Oracle Stephanie should be Batgirl Tim Red Robin pre new 52 suit Wally main Flash, Barry dead Bart Allen Kid Flash Titans shouldn’t be shat on with every occasion especially since they have a TV show. JL ROSTER: Superman Batman Wonder Woman Flash Wally West Green Lantern Kyle, John or Jessica Martian Manhunter Hawk girl Aqua man
There's a device that is placed in the damaged section of Barbara's spine which restores her control over the lower body. Thus allowing her to become Batgirl again. Her paralysis temporarily returned when a villain electro shocks the device.
I don't mind Barbara walking again and being Batgirl, but I will never understand why it took so long or why Batman didn't use the Lazarus Pit for her sooner.
Imo it ruined a major point of her character. Barbara's depth came from overcoming her disability and seeing it as an opportunity to explore the other side of her talents such as computing and showing her genius side.
There is a new 1, its brian michael bendis new run on superman, it ruin eveything tommasi worked on including the new fan favorite character jonathan kent, we went from the greatest superman run to one of the most mediocre ones.
Not to mentions the new 52 did do a lot of damage to a lot of legacy characters like superboy Conner Kent the teen titans and so many others that it wasn’t even funny, also I am so happy that the new 52 Superman and Wonder Woman relationship is dead buried because I am more of a fan of Superman and Lois Lane as husband and wife and they have there son Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy the son of Superman and Lois Lane who is tons of fun and adorable in my opinion.
It made sense in the new 52 for them to be a couple but I get your point and yes there were some bad things and if you too but there were some good things as well you got to take the good with the bad
@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 true yes there was some good but it wasn't going to last unfortunately and the end result of the new 52 was nothing more then a complete disaster that it took 5 years of garbage to finally get someone at the higher ups to realized the new 52 was a huge mistake and people weren't going to take it anymore.
I was originally a Hal fan and was very upset when they turned him villain. However, that said, both Kyle and Guy grew on me. Kyle, I think, is arguably the better GL, since he actually does think more deeply about what he does and as an artist uses the ring more creatively. Guy started out somewhere between comic relief and nigh villain but his character development was believable and he ended up the proverbial better person. I thought he was a lot more interesting when he tossed the ring entirely and discovered he had innate alien powers.
The 'woke' crowd really seems to have an issue with red heads. Find any red headed character and you can bet they want to change them into a black person.
Who tf gives a shit about the red heads? Also Batwoman and Poison Ivy are both lesbians and have red hair. Go back to crying about the Little Mermaid recast.
I'm a lifelong Barbara Gordon fan and I'm ecstatic that she's back as Batgirl. Oracle was wonderful, but it made no sense in the DC Universe that she would stay disabled -what with characters being brought back from the dead every week and other bat characters have their spines heal and all.
@@billygreci9739 I believe it was explained as some experimental neural implant surgery that she had done in South Africa. Which makes sense to me in a comics universe.
I personally loved Wally west my flash more then barry Allen flash mostly because Wally west is the flash I grew up with and it blows my mind that Wally west my flash keeps getting screwed over while Barry Allen flash gets all the love, now don’t get me wrong I know some people like Barry Allen that’s fine you are entitled to your own opinions and in fact j am glad you guys like Barry Allen but for me personally i loved Wally west my flash even more then Barry Allen but that’s just my opinion.
@@Fiiwse5676 i can understand that and i respect your opinion on barry allen too and in fact nothing would make me happy but to see all of the flash family Jay garrick the first flash Barry allen flash Wally west flash his wife Linda park & his kids Irey & Jai wally's kids and Bart allen kid flash finally back together again as a family that would be tons of fun and badass. Also another thing i would really love to happen is to see Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy & Damian Wayne Robin meeting Wally kids Irey and Jai so they could go on fun adventures as the Super sons and daughters that would be really cute and adorable :).
@@Fiiwse5676 actually funny enough before the new 52 actually happened i think Wally west my flash did had his own town to look after i think it was keystone city not central city but unfortunately when the new 52 happened his city and his family got erased from existence which sucks.
where some of us are ecstatic that she is back as batgirl, in a universe where it wouldn't really makes sense that she stay that way forever, your reason for hating it is that it takes away a blue checkmark for the "representation gimmick"......i saw that comming even before you said it. by you people's logic representation and diversity is supposed to trump any and all good story-telling or character development(in her case), smh. loved her as oracle yes, but the o.g batgirl is back, and it's about damn time.
There's disabled people all over the DCU, really it makes no sense that just she gets the technology to get out of the wheelchair. And in her case, representation wasn't a gimmick, but something that actually evolved the character into something different. Good story telling and character development made her Oracle, just kind of lazily undone and didn't add anything of value. Just made her another Bat derivative.
@@TimTE01 I realise you have no actual defense and I brought up something that clearly upsets you but at least try and come up with a defense instead of just saying that. What do you call a (usually) white character being tokenised? Diversity? cause it's not. And fridging is just something SJW comic writers came up with.
10:22 But then Tom King came around and said f#ck this guy and made him a murderer obsessed with the life he lost and he is currently incarsurated even though from what I saw he was still sad but otherwise came to terms with this unfamiliar earth
The one thing I really liked from the New 52 was Wonder Woman's new Origin of her being a Demigodess although I hope eventually DC takes a page from the Justice League Animated Series which implied that Hades was really her Farther which could produce some really compelling Storytelling in the Comics
I also like the origin that was introduced in the New 52 as she was the child of Zeus & her mother making her a demigoddess, rather than being sculpted from clay.
If I remember correctly there was also a storyline with her having a brother but I haven't read that one. Also, having the Amazons act as the Sirens of the Greek Mythology makes sense. Actually, in one of his labors Hercules had deal with some wild horses that would eat some humans when they would rampage, only to find out later that they were actually women who were cursed by one of the 12 gods for something.
I was never to much fond with the idea of Wonder Woman being Zeus's daughter. Personally I would have gone with Hercules since both he and Hippolyta have history, especially this would make Hera and even Ares encounter with Wonder Woman even more personal.
I prefer Barbra being able to walk plus I like both new 52 Batgirl runs and believe changing her design, giving her a more distinctive colour scheme was good idea, Purple is good colour for gordan.
She was much better and compelling as Oracle. Not to mention being Batgirl again ruined Barbara's character development as Oracle and Stephanie Brown being a succesor as Batgirl. Its regression tbh.
In the comics that followed Hal Jordan's resurrection, it was made clear that many lanterns still didn't trust him. In fact, Hal himself still claimed responsibility, and a lot of the early series after his return handled his own guilt. In particular, the Lost Lanterns, Green Lanterns who were off world and stranded when Hal went on his rampage.
Giving Wonder Woman a father made her backstory terrible. In the days where more children are growing up without fathers, she made a better superheroine if she didn't have one
She originally was (Athena) in the original story she knew nothing about men so when she goes out to "man's world" she actually learns about it. The New 52 one creates more excuses to put in feminist stories
@@GaryTurbo I always though she is grand doughtier of Ares? Who was hidden by old gods in mausoleum of her deceased mother and her Amazons (killed by Hercules). Did they seriously just turn them into rapy barbarians? Ugh.. New 52 suck 0_0
"Completely unaccountable" Nah. Maybe not as accountable as people liked back them, but Hal's character arc was all about how, although manipulated by Parallax, he had let it in and was partly on board there, so he had to redeem himself.
Jon Brewer he better not istg. There’s like 6 evil speedsters I can think of off the top of my head, just use one of them. Edward Clarris The Rival, Thawne, Zoom, Inertia, Negative Flash Meena and Godspeed
Wally got the short end of the rebirth and return. I like both Wally and Barry as the Flash, just wish they didn't get rid of him like they did and just did the New 52 as a new earth story like Earth 1 is
@@Fiiwse5676 well Wally always operate in Keystone City while Barry in Central City. Wish he would have his Flash suit from Vol.2 #50 with white iris and crimson colour with shiny metal highlights. Other than that his new suit is awesome, just to show how his KF suit was well designed, probably better than Barry's Flash costume.
@@Fiiwse5676 I think there was a debate when Wally got his own KF costume (not just a small copy of Barry's), which one is better. I still think its great since it has Wally's hair shown. While not practical, it certainly can be used by the artist to convey motions and winds by movement of the hair. While I think Barry's costume was a classic, yet feels modern, I think Wally's costume with Stylized belt and metal highlights was an improvement compared to Barry's old costume. Possibly the best.
Ok, as for the Parallax thing, people were far far more pissed off about Emerald Twilight than they were about Green Lantern Rebirth. And it wasn't even a bad retcon, as it explained the Yellow impurity, and almost no one forgave Hal for what he did, especially not himself. That was shown even in GLR. And while " the others rose to the task", no they didn't. Hal was always the most popular lantern, even after Final Night and into Morrison's run with Rainer. I don't deny it was a retcon, but I honestly haven't seen anyone hate Geoff John's Green Lantern runs, especially not Rebirth. Might just be because Hal fans cover it up, but most people agree it was good.
No you're right. Comic fans loved Green Lantern Rebirth. It's just certain "fans" hate that Hal gets more attention than everyone else, especially folks that grew up with John Stewart in the JL cartoon. So they try to frame Hal coming back as a bad thing when in reality everyone pretty much loved him coming back and the explanation that Parallax was the reason for emerald twilight.
Crisis on Infinite Earths really accomplished nothing except prolong a simple necessity - get rid of the multiverse - unnecessarily. It was the books that followed (especially John Byrne's Man of Steel and George Perez' Wonder Woman) that would iron out the DC Universe for the next twenty-five years. That's why DC had two Green Arrows and two Wonder Womans (Wonder Women?) for about 6 months until DC figured out whether they WANTED two Green Arrows and two Wonder Women. So, technically, Crisis was a failure, but it did serve a necessary purpose. Oh, and I HATED New 52/Rebirth. The one was pathetic; the other was a pathetic attempt to FIX the pathetic. It turned me off DC for almost 5 years.
Since it's a name, Wonder Womans is really the correct usage...but most seem to favor "Batmen, Supermen, Wonder Women." And while New 52 really messed things up, I thought Rebirth did miracles at bringing the old DC charm back. Flash and Teen Titans especially benefited from Rebirth.
In my opinion, the problem with "Crisis On Infinite Earths" was that they didn't go far enough. I think many of the problems were the result to trying to keep some of the old continuity despite the problems that it might create. As an example, they made it that Superman was never a Superboy but that created so many problems with the Legion of Super-Heroes (for years the Creative Teams had to keep trying fix after fix after fix) that The Creative Team ended up wiping out everything and starting all over again from scratch because they reached a point where they were spending more time fixing problems than telling stories.
@@Solitaire001 Exactly. The same for Power Girl, who had six origins over the next ten years before they finally threw up their hands in defeat and just brought back Earth 2 so she had an origin again.
DC didn't retire the JSA to a parallel Earth in the 1950's, they simply cancelled them outright because superheroes were no longer popular with readers. Earth-2 wasn't a concept to DC in 1952. What DC did under the pen of Gardner Fox in 1961, was explain in narrative the reason for the retirement of the heroes and why characters like Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman have no idea of their existence. Parallel Earths! Even so, Flash of Two Worlds was a one off story, but strong sales and favorable responses from the readers prompted the entire JSA to return.
"Here's hoping Wally West is back for good" Hahahahaha. After Heroes in Crisis and a Flash War, wally was nixed... only to be the next Doctor Manhattan/Metron. In other words... nope Wally's gone.
Across the multiverse, only two things remain constant... Superman and Lois Lane become an item, and the whole universe will get reset and the Flash is the only one who remembers any of it.
@@WhaleManMan Because she became very iconic for being a wheelchair bound superhero, a superhero who people that are disabled could look to and be inspired to do great things for themselves despite their physical disadvantage/setback, a hero that wheelchair bound fans could look to and find comfort knowing that Barbara Gordon, someone like them could be relevant and could still play a big part in saving the day, even with her non-functioning legs, with the reboot that happened, this source of comfort, or inspiration was swept away. So fans are understandably upset.
She was more iconic as Oracle rather than just another person with a bat on their chest, from a wheelchair she managed to be one of the most formidable characters in DC.
DC really screwed the pooch with the New 52. Just let characters age. Jonathan Kent and Damian Wayne exist anyway, so why couldn't they be the new Superman and Batman? In fact, they ALREADY did this with Black Canary. For that matter, Wally West's kids could take over---and if you're worried about diversity, his wife was Linda Park, and Asian-Americans are even less-well represented in comics than African-Americans. Of course, your mystical/ mythological characters don't need to age at all: Wonder Woman, Dr. Fate, Hawkman/ Hawkwoman. Ultimately, it means no one cares, because everything will just be reset in 5-10 years.
Again. That isn't problem of the New 52. There is valid reason for the reboots (Marvel has here easier as they timeline is compressed), problem is only when they are screwed like in this case. If you need reboot at least improve things, tell old stories in new way correcting mistakes and show some honesty to new characters referencing them. For example people wouldn't complain as much about Willy becoming Kid Flash again as with his complete erasure for no fucking reason 0_0
7:31 I miss clay given life by the gods Wonder Woman. And when she had actual weak points, like Batman still being a flesh and blood human (in theory), and Sups STILL have viable weaknesses (magic, the countless forms of Kryptonite, red sunlight) in spite of being the most powerful being on the planet.
Barry and Kara should have stayed dead. Barbra should have stayed in the chair. James Jr should not be a psychopath. Beast boy should be allowed to grow up. So should Raven. Kyle's backstory makes no sense without Donna and Jenny. Don't even get me started on the lack of a JSA.
Really not as hated as the video makes them out to be, more picking some mildly divisive stuff there. Like Green Lantern: Rebirth is a largely lauded title.
coz wally always had a code against killing. Most if not all flashes don't kill period. Its a big thing if they take a life. Hawkman never set those principles
Only if you like it despite knowledge about old stuff it would make comment valid. It is natural that new fans usually like new series. Failure of New 52 was that it divided fandom.
I am someone who was reading comics in early 90s BUT I really liked the New 52. Yeah, it had good and bad things but to me it was enjoyable. What I hate is that New 52, just like the Ultimate Universe in Marvel tried New things, starting from ground zero and fans hated both of these for many, many reasons. Aaaaand, Superman being with Wonder Woman is BEST storyline, no matter that Booster Gold, out of all the future characters, had to time jump to prevent them from hooking up.
@@athanasiosdemertzis8847 Outside that I disagree with you on many levels. I should point out that Marvel was at least smart enough to test radical changes in completely separate universe. It did failed, but it didn't pull everything else with it, like New 52 did.
Retconing Hal Jordan was terrible. His time as Parrallax was great storytelling. It showed how truely human a superhero could really be. I mean, who wouldn't go nuts after their hometown that you were supposed to protect was destroyed? That storyline made a DC fan to begin with. And the why they did Wally was probably even worse. Barry should've stayed dead. Wally was better than Barry in every way and he died a heroes death that they retconned to be meaningless😒
While Hal is my favorite GL I have always loved how you can write so much about the GLs like the Jedi; If Geoff Johns didn’t do such a great job bring Hal back, I would have left him dead for the sake of making so many more GL books with various other lanterns not just the earth ones
DC needs to stop the rebooting their and work with what they have. Also, Barry Allen should've stayed dead AND Bendis' run on Legion of Super-Heroes is just gonna make things worse
genuine question: did people really hate the retcon in Green Lantern: Rebirth? I wasn't aware of the comic in its time, I got into it 5 years after release, and personally I loved it
No they didn't. There was pretty much a vocal fanbase of Hal fans that pretty much lambasted DC for their portrayal of Hal in Emerald Twilight because it wasn't align with the character at all. Introducing Parallax, The Emotional Spectrum, and bringing Hal back were some of the greatest thing DC did for the Green Lantern Mythos. The only people that disliked it were probably John Stewart and Kyle Rayner fans.
@@TimTE01 Yeah because sales mean absolutely nothing in terms of quality. Green Lantern Rebirth was so well received that DC attempted to replicate it with the Flash. Emerald Twilight itself was a cop out to replace Hal Jordan and it failed hilariously because it was so far out of character for him to begin with that blaming it on a giant space insect monster made more sense than Hal going mad with power. It's funny that the Green Lantern mythos pretty much remained stagnant for most of Hal's death and his eventual resurrection was what brought the property almost all of it's following popularity. You're allowed to not be a fan but just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was bad especially if all signs pretty much say the exact opposite.
You want this all to be about me, when it is about lots of people feeling this way. Both Stories were bad. One does not make the other good by 'fixing' it. Sales don't inherently mean quality either. Is 'Avatar' really the best Film of all time?
The New 52 at DC and "Fear Itself" over at Marvel pretty much killed my efforts to keep up with comics at all. There is only so many times I can hear, "This is the worst thing ever" (Marvel) or, "This has never happened before" (DC) before it just loses all meaning.
For me, DC's original sin was Flash of Two Worlds. That's what made Crisis on Infinite Earths necessary. Crisis on Infinite Earths made Infinite Crisis and Fifty-Two necessary. Fifty-Two made Flashpoint and the New 52 necessary. New 52 made Rebirth necessary. And now we have Heroes in Crisis, with people confessing to things that happened pre-Flashpoint.
I respectfully disagree. What made "Crisis..." and the subsequent series necessary was that The Creative Teams didn't keep things clear, organized, and consistent after "The Flash Of Two Worlds." That allowed things to slip through the cracks. One of the best examples of this is Black Canary: She was an Earth-Two character who just appeared on Earth-One without explanation. Another one is Wonder Girl (Donna Troy): Originally Wonder Girl was Wonder Woman as a teenager (they used to do stories where Wonder Woman meets herself at different ages), but the writers just put her into Teen Titans as a separate character.
@@Solitaire001 But some of that was inevitable with multiple timelines. I mean, Wonder Girl is sort of a perfect example (and you'll notice Marv Wolfman didn't go off and kill *his* characters who weren't what they were "supposed to be" in the name of brand purity).
DC is known for their CRISIS series...so much so that it gave their continuity existential crises. It's the primary reason why I never bought the New 52 Series
I prefer Barbara as Batgirl,so what. After 20 years of characters being killed off and return in the most ridiculous way did nobody could make her walk again ?
I can see why people were mixed because at the time when she was first introduced around the mid-60s and kind of got push back around the 80s and then they officially retired the character with her own special series after DC decide to no longer make her back or after putting her in the Batman The Killing Joke where Joker shatter down below the waist which paralyzed her and ever since that she's become sort of a better character as Oracle so when DC side to shall we say reckon it by bringing her back as Batgirl some people were portrayed plus they were under two popular characters that were the new Batgirl in the old continuity Cassandra Cain aka the blackgirl/orphan Stephanie Brown the spoiler/Batgirl and also they technically didn't pretend like she didn't get paralyzed that still Canon it's just that she got an experimental treatment which allowed her to walk again after being paralyzed for 3 years
Heroes in Crisis isn't a retcon so much as a hated arc. By the end it just leaves you with a scrunched up brow saying wtf?! DC seemed to use it as a way to say Barry is the one true Flash so all the Wally fans can just go sit in a corner and get over it. It showed how trauma and loss can have an effect on people but still...
@@igitaq it wasnt done well. Many liked HiC because it showed heroes trauma, but in reality theyre only praising the concept, while the excecution was done poorly. Many characters was written to fit the narative, not the other way around. It felt really unnatural with characters doing stupid things or being badass for no reason (for ex, Harley defeated the trinity ON HER OWN).
Another tittle would be '10 reasons why I can't like DC no matter how I try'. Sure can read tradepaperbacks of a few good storylines but I honestly wonder how someone is able to buy any DC comic every month. Marvel is on the same situation for the past 10 years or more but DC was always like that and it is frustrating to try and be a DC fan...
The original Hawk & Dove were brothers, Don (Dove) and Hank (Hawk) Hall. During "Crisis On Infinite Earths" Don Hall died and his powers were transferred to Dawn Granger, who became the new Dove. Later, a villain named Monarch appeared and turned out to be a future version of Hank Hall who was an absolute dictator in the future and killed all of the other heroes. Monarch killed Dove and then Hawk killed Monarch. In that moment, the powers of both Hawk and Dove fused into Hank Hall and he became Monarch, and then Monarch fused with Waverider to become Extant. Later, Dove (Dawn Granger) returned to life and her sister Holly became the new Hawk. After that point, I don't know the details but apparently with The 52 Hawk & Dove returned to being Hank Hall and Dawn Granger. I'm not sure how much of the above is still in continuity.
Wally's back for good? Well, about that, Heroes in Crisis happened. As for the New 52, I really really liked most of it. I might be one of the minority here but I liked that they tried something different. I think that the New 52 from DC and the Ultimate universe from Marvel were GREAT and they should have kept them. But that's just me.
eh disagree oracle gave a new direction for her character and proved she was very much still part of the superhero community in very useful ways with her tech skills. It showed how she picked herself up after the tragic event that happened to her in the killing joke. Furthermore she was an inspiration to disabled people that you can still do wonders even with limitations. Bring her back as batgirl is a complete regression after all this and there was nothing notable or significant to her anymore. She went back to being just another bat family member who punches criminals. Like we don't have enough of those already
