10 things Media gets WRONG about Archery! 

Tolkien was many things but a skimper on the details he was not

I quite liked Jim Butcher's Codex Alera for a similar reason. The main people that use archery have wouldcrafting abilities that allow them to flex massive warbows easier than a regular human.

Another thing in this video Tolkien specifically gets right: at one point in the Battle of Helm's Deep Legolas mentions that he has to switch to "knife-work" when the orcs start swarming over the wall he's shooting from (and he runs out of arrows). Legolas carries a melee weapon!

​​@@desmondk-o7148 it was reflected in the LOTR movie with Legolas carrying two short swords on his back which was a gift from the Dunedain Rangers. In the Hobbit movie, he uses a pair of Elven Knives to kill Orcs

Legolas is also mentioned retrieving arrows after skirmishes, which is a nice touch!

"Errrr, Whiterun, we have a problem!"

They did the same thing in Star Wars Bounty Hunter, with even sillier results. I recall the poison dart gun launching enemies straight out of the map.

just to be clear i loved each and every glitch this has caused in my various playthroughs

Similar behavior occurs in Team Fortress 2 as well, and is especially noticeable with Spy's backstabs and the Huntsman, which often send even the Heavy absolutely flying.

That's not a defence, that's just an explanation for why it happens. ...and I love that it does.

Glad it was helpful! 😁

@@blumineck A compliment you totally deserve.

This man has big AuDHD energy, and if it's not a special interest delivered with full ND passion then goddamn I cannot even fathom the dedication it requires for him to know so much and be able to multitask about it so perfectly.

As as fellow AuDHD, I was thinking this exact thing. ​@@Jane-oz7pp

It was so well done, I started to think it was dubbed over until some later shots. Enough content creators struggle to get their audio clear when standing perfectly still that this level of movement with a mic is astounding.

Would not help. I know Asiatic archery consultants on movies that spent weeks working the cast only to have the director toss it all out becuase he did not like how it read.

Ouch!​@@ehisey

It sucks because directors assume we value the action over the details but a LOT of people would actually love to be able to learn from movies. I don't learn anything from watching a fantasy archer in a movie but if I saw them carry their bow in a case I'd learn how bows worked in real life AND I'd feel way more immersed because it makes more sense when you think about it for a second.

Thats just film making in general. It's honestly absurd. @@ehisey

😊😊rzsrre​@@ehisey

I would like to give more context to this story. Now I agree this is probably the origin of the trope cause the Odyssey has influenced a great deal of our modern storytelling. However It is not a user of this trope, but rather misunderstandings created it. First off Ulysses is the later Romanized version of the story. It’s a translation adapted from its original greek compilation by Homer. The Odyssey follows Odysseus (His og greek name) and most importantly to know he is a favorite of the Goddess Athena. Also the bow he fires was a gift which he had practiced with. He was also a hunter who commonly used bows quite a little. So he had the training, and experience. However the famous impossible shot does still take place after 20 years were we have very limited idea of the weapons he used and at least hasn’t used a bow in 10 years. However when he makes this shot its heavily implied it is made with the influence of Athena and her powers. So it’s explained how he can not have to shake off any rust as he’s magically enhanced. Even after he fires the bow some translations note a sigil of Athena appearing above the doorway Odysseus stands in as he kills the suitors. A representation that she is watching over him and helping him. This is just one of many times Athena helps Odysseus get advantages or helps him in his goals, or even outright saving his life during the Trojan war. Full disclosure I am not a historian or a specialist in Greek history, or the Epics im just someone who hyper fixated on them learned a bunch of history and has read multiple translations of them. So I could most definitely have some information wrong.

@@Goober440 i have to disagree : when you read the story, there is a lot of fights against indigenous people along the trip. Like... a lot. Odysseus is quite "barbaric", kills a lot of tribes just to gather food, etc... at least, till he eat all of his crew due to Circea, knowing theses porks are his crew... Plus, it"s not a good test for archery skill : it's not about accuracy, nor speed, just strengh. Only Odysseus could handle this tension, only him could draw the bow, and shoot an arrow with enough power to... shoot an arrow in a straight line trough 12 miserable meters, if the axes are separated one meter from another one. This is important : this legendary bow is absolutely crap. Mine is 41 lb strong, and i can shoot hundred meters. This one is supposedly so strong only a god-descendant can draw it, and... people can't shoot more than dozen meters with it ? Considering that odysseus is an excellent woodworker, this is NOT a bow. It's the most rough piece of junk you ever could have imagined.

@@flamandbenoit7247 ...What are you disagreeing with mob about? What does the fighting with indigenous people have to do with what they said? You didn't connect those. The point of shooting through the axe heads isn't the distance. It's entirely accuracy. With an incredibly heavy draw weight bow, if you're struggling to pull it back, you'll be wavering. Because it's easier to describe, imagine dart boards instead of holes in axe heads. If your arrow would go into the bottom of the 20 point sliver (close to the bullseve but outside it) that slight upward angle means you'll get through say 3 of the axes, but will hit the rim on the 4th or 5th. You need to be hitting a bullseye to make it all the way through. Again, doing that with a bow supposedly only Odie was strong enough to pull. Such a challenge prevents someone from winning if they draw the bow with terrible form to just send the arrow flying.

@@isaac_marcus we don't have he story of theses fights, but considering odysseus type of strategy , i can't imagine no bows implied. So, 20 years without shooting any arrow, it's a no. But yes, it was nitpicking. ---- And we said the same thing about the straight line of the test. But you're focusing on the wrong part : Any bow can do this. This is my point, not accuracy : You have a 160 lb warbow in your hands, but you can't pull it completely... the bow will still shoot. You can just lift 18kg, 41 lb, you will still draw the bow with 41 lb of force. even if it's a 160lb bow. Therefore, if nobody can draw the bow AT ALL, with ANY kind of force... it's not a bow. It's a raw, unbendable, piece of wood with an *untensionend* string attached to.. i mean... we saw the same video, a man can shoot with a ukulele ;) and a ukulele neck is not particulary bendy. Far less than a bow ! and since you can shoot an arrow with a berimbau (metal string, unshaped stick)...

@@Goober440 preemptive "edit" short version since my wording is anything but concise: in the version I read the point was that someone needed to pass a superhuman strength check in order to _attempt_ the skill check, not that the skill check required divine intervention to pass...this means a hell of a lot less than it sounds like though since "translations" tend to take extreme liberties even before you're talking about a story from an oral tradition that probably had thousands of versions before it was ever put to paper. -back to the original yammering comment: it isn't even so much a blessing of the gods thing either, at least not directly: the basic accuracy required for the shot is by no means considered impossible or even particularly difficult for a decent archer in the story instead the reason nobody can make the shot is because the required _path_ for the arrow to travel has almost zero drop: the bow in question is some "exotic" thing (from a writing-tropes standard it is a Magic Item but it's not supposed to be supernatural in-setting rather it is supposed to be something unique made with advanced techniques and materials) that was made specifically for him in an unspecified adventure-abroad prior to the story start. the bow has an *absurd* draw weight to the point where very few people can even _string_ it let alone draw it or use it effectively, the only way to make the shot in question was to actually use the bow to it's inhuman potential to get a sufficiently stiff (and thus heavy) arrow (to limit wobble I think? arrows flex a LOT in flight but I don't know if stiffness would actually reduce that since it's based on harmonic points, honestly a lot of the stuff in this section of the book read like it was poorly translated and possibly nonsense to begin with. I think the main point was that you needed to use a war arrow not a hunting arrow since both greek and roman cultures made a clear distinction between military and hunting archery) flying fast enough to have a low enough falloff to have the possibility to make the shot.

You forgot the worst part there. When they finally shoot and the guy says "fire" instead of "loose"...

This is how firearms replaced bows. Can you reload a crossbow faster than you can reload a matchlock after your arms are worn out from shooting a hundred times?

​​@@Shade01982Neither term is applicable if you're talking about historical archers. Every army had a code word or motion to direct archers to shoot. Historical armies have never said fire or loosely. The fact most archers didn't speak English probably also being a big reason.

​​@@MenacingWithVideosBoth crossbows and matchlocks are slow to reload so I doubt either one would fire more than once in a close melee fight. In a long range battle the crossbow would be better simply cause it's more accurate over longer distances. Guns like muskets were incredibly inaccurate at range which is why armies lined up close to fire.

@@MenacingWithVideos Firearms replaced bows due to ease of use. Bows take years to learn, firearms take days or weeks. For modern firearms after just few hours of training you can shoot a target 150 meters away.

I’m sorry, was that not interesting enough for you?

I’m hopeful OP means that, indeed, you are increasing the interest regarding archery by astronomical levels, David.

@blumineck I can totally respect anybody who can pull that off... Oh, and you are crazy. Loved that video.

​@@blumineck"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??" lmao

I'm 100% certain the OP was being sarky :) @@blumineck

Or magic

That’s just movie makers not wanting to show people finding or retrieving new arrows. Though showing this limitation can/should make for more interesting fights

If my Ranger in BG3 needed to restock basic arrows just to use her main weapon, I’d probably lose my shit.

@@TheEquestrianGallade BG3 uses alot of things from 5e so arrows wouldnt be that expensive, but they seem to run on a very popular house rule of only tracking special ammo. iirc 20 arrows only cost 1gp, so it would be tedius but very very doable.

@@KikinCh1kin just buy 1000 of them at the start of the game and dont worry about it, not like you have limited bag space, it not being an actual problem to overcome is probably why they didnt include that

Yeah, I'm surprised it didn't make the list. I'd probably put it on #1. I struggle to hold a 70lbs bow steady, while a skinny a$$ teenage girl smaller than my dog can draw a massive 150lb war bow and hold a casual 10 minute conversation. I tried 150. I failed. Miserably...

⁠it’s literally #4 in the video

Yeah, they do that a lot, especially when it's groups of archers. Like in Braveheart.

​@@ryanager8029 No, the problem I'm talking about isn't in the design of the character and the character's strength. It's that holding a bow fully drawn like that is very strenuous for anyone regardless of strength, so you 1. wouldn't be able to hold it for long and 2. it's just not how anyone would use a bow as your aim would get more and more shaky by the second as your arms gets tired, thus making your aim bad for no reason.

i can't remember what game it was, but there's a game where the longer you hold a drawn bow your aim gets shaky and eventually you release the arrow unintentionally

Yeah, the depiction of that in Brave was phenomenal.

I loved that slow mo so much!

Also arrows spiral

In movies, comics, etc, absolutely. I love seeing arrows spiral & warp mid-flight. In games, it's _really_ not worth the effort, even for slow-mo shots (like the ones you see in Skyrim).

That's the equivalent of a throwing axe or throwing knife sailing through the air with zero spin, it just cracks me up at this point

No, no, don't you see?! It's point number 2, the instrument doesn't flex, so all the tension comes from the string! That means you need to make it a ukulele CROSSbow! 😄

Just to point a little fact, crossbows don't use elastic strings, they are "mounted bows". The ukelele bow can be turned into an ukelele over casing crossbow but it's still fantasy archery... which by the way, make it perfect for d&d... I would use a guitar though, more kick... 😂

@@spiker.ortmann And then add an axe blade for good measure. If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!

Me too! I think that would be super interesting, especially learning why the differences occur.

Agreed. I'll enjoy immensely a video, regardless of length, or even a series of videos that digs into the topic. Especially when each style is compared to each other to see their strengths and weaknesses. Useful stuff, this video as it is in terms of writing reference. More so if there's a guideline of sorts for archery styles and cultures research topics.

Agreed!

Briefly? Make it long!

+1 to this suggestion

His attitude with archery in movies is much like mine in so much SF, when spaceships are flying like planes as if they are in atmosphere. Few shows/movies get it right. _The Expanse_ was a rare one that did.

Being experienced does not necessarily mean he's skilled. Important distinction.

​@@NemoConsequentaeAnd not showing maneuvering thrusters even if they're mentioned - Star Trek is really guilty of that. "Thrusters only in Spacedock" but then we never see the plumes of the RCS firing or even see where they are on the spaceframe. You'd need multiple thrusters the size of a Rocketdyne F-1 engine to manage a ship the size of the original NCC-1701 and yet there's no ports visible anywhere.

I think another piece of media that has been fairly good is the Ranger's Apprentice series. While the rate of fire may or may not be improbable at times (it's a book, you can't tell how fast they shoot all the time), you can go through all these tropes and find them holding up (character trains to re-gain skill, unstringing a bow, even a justification as to using a recurved bow rather than a longbow).

And the power behind the arrow is explained too while the archer is totally flabbergasted with it happening in the first place... 😁

RANGERS APPRENTICE!! It’s literally my favorite fantasy series ever. I took up archery and knife throwing because of it! I have a cloak! What’s your favorite book?

So it is like modern soldiers using their shovel when in melee.

@@schwarzerritter5724 absolutely.

Well, I suppose the maul is one theory on how the common war hammer came to be.

Also people forgot actual archers are BUILT, that makes their hammers a bit more scary.

​@bodyno3158 yeah, even though their muscles aren't built for swinging stuff so much as drawing the bow (making them likely more clumsy in close combat and comparatively weaker to their feats with a bow over a swing) I still wouldn't want some guy who is basically tossing around 100+ pounds of force daily to hit me with a hammer. Especially if you are in plated armor... it's likely gonna cave in and you are gonna hate your life lol

putting a reply so I can find this description because I love it

For those that haven't shot before, most of the (olympic) draw is done with your back, not your biceps like a normal gym lift. You can see it in the video when he has his shirt off how his back contracts a lot. Most people won't weight train that muscle group so doing something like archery takes an adjustment while you get good form. You're also "lifting" the weight of the bow with one arm, so a war bow is a lot of weight if you're not used to it.

​@@LastElf42most people don't train back? What? You high mate?

@@Krigalishnikov At least not in the way required.

​@@Krigalishnikov i assume he means most people don't train *those* movements with their back. But idk anyway bc i don't lift

@Krigalishnikov exactly, people in Gyms don't train their backs/sholders to do a strong pulling motion sideways. It's like pressing your two shoulder blades together behind you. Best equivalent would be to rip something apart right in front of your chest but without emphasis on your arm muscles. I'm shooting a 40lbs hunting bow and I'm not big at all. It mostly takes good technique and a bit of underarm strength for holding the bow and string and not letting go. In my archery club most have reverted to lower draw weights already because there's hardly any benefit from going from around 35lbs to around 50lbs. The motion just gets harder and you won't be as concentrated after half an hour or so, meaning you won't hit anything anymore.

@@DK_1983 Well, your _MONUMENTAL BIAS_ got directly in the way of the fact that this was about using Compound Bows for specific character archetypes as a way to help diversify the types of archers being portrayed in media in modern settings. Compound Bows benefit the types of characters _explicitly _*_NOT_*_ specializing in the quick & agile techniques that better suit Recurve & Composite Bows, who also have a means to use their stronger musculature to their advantage, and thus should be portrayed to emphasize that like the video stated._ The video ALSO mentioned that Olympic style *_has its purpose_* and that is explicitly NOT in allowing for agility or multiple rapid and consecutive shots, but RATHER being able to take your time to hit a precise target as accurately as possible - _something Compound Bows directly benefit by allowing the full draw to be held for longer._ Your Rogue archetype is MEANT to be remaining TOTALLY hidden from the enemy at a distance because they're more stealthy than strong, and have to be better at landing hits on specific vitals whilst keeping undetected, which is… _everything Compound Bows excel at enabling a character to do._ That type of sniping means often being forced to remain still VERY suddenly until you can choose to release your shot, and if you're at full draw - _that's easier done with a Compound Bow, _*_ESPECIALLY for the physicality of the aforementioned character archetype._* You're obsessed with sighting and releases as a weakness, but don't stop to recognize that the diversity of the Compound Bow from Recurve & Composite Bows are its strengths _because they are DIFFERENT._ This means if you have a less physically strong character, you can STILL have them specializing in archery so that they fight at range & are more removed from direct threats of melee combat, and check that box. However, them not having dexterous agility & significant upper body strength are less important than stealth & careful accuracy for them and - _that's all exactly why you _*_SHOULD_*_ have THOSE characters using a Compound Bow instead, because it accentuates the differences the weapon itself reinforces, while also allowing OTHER types of characters to use a Recurve or Composite Bow for the dodging & rapid firing archery for quick, lithe, & agile characters who EVADE enemy fire rather than AVOID enemy detection outright._ Additionally, since Compound Bows hold at a very _specific_ draw weight that isn't continually escalating the farther back you pull like Recurve or Composite, this ALSO means that you could have that character train with non-standard arrows BECAUSE Compound Bows can dial the distance for how they fire and site precision _in a completely different way, because of how you can place sights and learn distances._ Exploding arrows that weigh more as ranged ordinance make _FAR_ more sense being fired from a Compound Bow than having someone with a Recurve or Composite Bow using them, _specifically because of the mechanical ways in which they translate the transfer of energy are more beneficial for that._ This means it makes more sense to use a grenade-like explosive arrow vs. throwing it because you have the benefit of accuracy _just like soldiers who can hit the same spot with a mortar round 5 times in a row._ It's a totally different skill set for their weapon's specialization that both makes them interesting AND recognizably different to an audience because of a Compound Bow having a markedly different appearance. You made it abundantly clear you have an exceedingly narrow and _painfully elitist_ view of Recurve & Composite archery …but that's ALL focused around your niche scenarios in apocalyptic "looting, patrolling, & raiding" which is, once again, *EXACTLY why it's important to represent different types of Bows & Archery just as much as different types of firearms & combat specialists using them.* _Those types of bows benefit totally different types of characters and make stories more interesting with a greater diversity of how to portray that, rather than oversimplifying it all into this single bloated & inaccurate archetype _*_that you're just reinforcing with all your rambling._* A sniper in a ghillie suit won't be great at looting, patrolling, & raiding in an apocalypse the way someone with a semi-automatic weapon would be. They are far better suited to defend a static "fort" position or strike before anyone knows they're there and reposition before anyone can find where they were. Compound Bows have a similar benefit at a far closer range, but comparatively without any sound at that closer distance compared to using a rifle even if it's heavily suppressed. Like the video emphasized, there are COUNTLESS ways to make more interesting characters who still specialize in archery when you make use of the variety of _what actually exists_ rather than try to obsessively compare them against uneven criteria and force them into a single mold.

Green arrow sometimes uses a compound bow in his comics, i think he has a myriad of bows that do different things just like he does arrows.

​@@DK_1983you do realize it is prefectly doable to shoot a coumpound with your fingers? And that a lever bow is a sub catagory of compound bows? And finally the lever bow in the comics is relatively recent change from his long time use of a recurve and occasional wheelbow? It was I believe done to match the use of the bow in TV series, but have not checked the dates.

Compound bows are easier to draw to shoot, but a beeyuch to draw on paper. I imagine they would be a challenge to animate too.

The issue with compound bows is that because of how recent the design it (1966), you run into the problem that even a modern pistol would outperform it in any practical sense. So it'd be a pretty niche weapon, requiring far too much practise, only to be outperformed by an AK in almost all categories.

The notching vs nocking might (at least partially) be blamed on editors/spellcheckers combined with authors who aren’t super familiar w archery - when I write, google docs ALWAYS tries to change nock to notch and I have to go back and correct it. An author with less confidence in their archery knowledge might say “oh, I guess it’s notching then?”

@@skylark7921 that's a great point, I hadn't considered that possibility.

Would be interesting to have a character hold a war bow at full draw for a long period, specifically to establish how absurdly strong they are. If you wanted to highlight it, you could have other characters marvel at what the archer character is doing, or be shocked at how casually the archer character can resist that much tension without any visible strain.

@@tbotalpha8133 Absolutely! What a great idea. Would love to see that.

@@tbotalpha8133 I imagine that'd be impressive but only to those familiar with archery. To the average joe whose only familiarity with archery is through film and video games, they'd probably not be too impressed since they've already been conditioned with the assumption that drawing bows are as easy as stretching out a rubber band.

I was actually just about to come down here to defend it too lmao. The Hunters from Monster Hunter are superhumanly strong, not just capable of casually wielding a ballista as a regular bow, but also jumping off cliffs (that would leave regular people a fine red paste on the ground below) and walking away completely unharmed. Not only that, but the MH Bows are collapsible and some of their arrows (Dragon Piercer) have the ability to shoot through steel-plated behemoths, head to tail, without any loss in momentum, assisted, of course, by some ignited fuel source. They clearly have their own universal "rules". Physics works differently in their universe. That being said, the MH Bow is also relatively short range. It loses most of it's power if you step in or out of specific range. So there is, at least, *SOME* "realism" there.

Absolutely. Heck, you can even see it in their physique sometimes. I remember the first time I realized that a female hunter's thigh (singular!) was as wide as Princess Chichae. Some people don't seem to notice that Hunters in MonHun are Jojo Pillar Men levels of gargantuan beefbags that absolutely look and act like they can wield their motorcycle-sized weapons.

Also its made of absurd materials and the people are sttronger than our humans.

I was gonna say, MH makes attempts to justify the absurdity of its weapons. The justification that goes the furthest is obviously how the Hunters are beyond peak human performance. An old fan theory even speculated they might be the remnants of a super soldier program from the setting's previous civilization since they got up to some...weird shit.

@@Evnyofdeath As further example of their absurdity (and further example of their superhuman-ness): they can eat an entire 5 course meal, including a whole roast, in one sitting, as the 'buffs' system in MH:W. It's anime logic x100, and I love it.

That's cool! Jordan was really really good at adding details 😂 (for other context, his books kept getting more verbose/filled with lot of details. I reread the first few books a lot [as one of my fav books during HS], but never got past Winter's heart, where the level of etail just got too much for me and some other readers ).

Oh yes, and there's also the two rivers bows. Bows so heavy that trained solders couldn't use them.

Those books have been the reason I wince when characters are riding (through rain) with a strung bow, without anticipation of combat.

You even get interesting interactions like one culture that primarily uses shorter bows on horseback thinks the enormous Two Rivers bows (used for hunting) are ridiculous simply because they can't be used on horseback and how impractical they are unless you've been using them for years.

That's a problem in real historical weapons. The most effective objectively are simple and adornment free most of the time. Complex geometries usually don't add much. It was especially so in early cinema when video was poor quality. Keeping track of the characters is easier with extreme outfits and weapons- this also was the case for model making, 'hero scale' would scale up certain features and make items/weapons more iconic to give visual clarity to the miniature scale. Feeding off one another and the fact that before the internet the earlier representations informed the later.

That would be very cool!

@@athens202 I think so at least :D like what is a compound bow? Why do a see wheels that have little wheels on them? Stuff like that.

Aye that would be an interesting one as Im curious about other types of bow too, I know my hungarian composite horse bow is far easier to draw than my Welsh longbow, despite both being the same poundage.

@@Reignlief The Welsh or English longbow, although historically important is actually a very primitive bow. When drawn the load /draw length graph is very curved - starts off quite easy then you have to do most of the workin the last few inches before reaching your anchor point. It just feels much harder then drawing up a bow with a similar final draw weight but a flatter load curve, such as you might hope for in a flat bow or a composite horn and sinew recurve. Which is "better"? That depends! In the cooler damper climate of England and Wales most common folk would have found it very difficult to keep a composite bow dry enough so as not to disintegrate. There need be no glue in a longbow, so it's a better design for this part of the world. HTH!

​@@titheproven954Compound Bows are a modernization of recurve bows to improve accuracy and ease of use. Compound bows will nock through the center of the bow and also mount optical sights. They use a specific quick release to minimize adverse twisting or jerking on the string when shooting. All of these improve accuracy. The wheels are pullies and cams. These allow for high draw strengths and draw lengths in a more compact size and allow for the shooter to hold less of the draw weight at full draw. An 80 pound compound bow will only burden the shooter with 20 or so pounds of the draw strength at full draw. This is to decrease the effort and exhaustion while aiming, allowing for longer aiming times are overall ease of use.

Stopping, rewinding, putting RU-vid on full-screen.

You're not the only one... went from "this in interesting content" to "damn, he's hot!" in record time....

A fair amount of muscle indeed

Also a perfect example of a lithe, but strong, person. You don't have to look like the Hulk to be functionally strong. Love it.

glad I'm not the only one. I hope we're allowed to drool just a little bit

John Flanagan did a superb job of introducing archery to new readers. Telling Will to imagine he's try to get his shoulder blades to touch is a great way to focus on the correct muscles.🥰

Thank you! I’d love to, but I need a better space for it!!

​@@blumineckyeah, back garden with trees and neighbors on presumably all sides seem a somewhat ill-advised place to demonstrate that! 😂 When you _do_ figure out a setting though, I absolutely second the request!

@blumineck you hear that folks? Find him some space! 🙂

Enjoy his musculature and form then.

@@mandowarrior123 😁

No worries!

PLEASE!

I'd definitely approve of more pole archery in movies

What did you find out about the shooting grips used in North America? What technique should the actors have done in Prey?

@@MenacingWithVideos My tribe is Alaskan and with over 600 different distinct Native American cultures in the USA I doubt that the techniques apply to groups outside my own, maybe our closest cultural neighbors. Not to mention, I'm not a perfect scholar/expert so don't take this as gospel. But the stance and way they threaded the arrow into the bow is loose and almost casual. The bow was a low poundage one made of birch wood which was treated and wrapped. Multiple fingers were used to sort of, gently grip the end of the arrow and let the string like, slip from the fingers on release, often with a slight tilt to the bow- not a perfectly straight 45 degree angle sort of thing. The quiver was on a long strap and hung at the side/front of the hunter- it was also often decorated with beads and painted patterns. My tribe mostly used a bow for hunting, so I didn't find anything specifically for warfare. When Alaska was colonized even though my ancestors disliked it, what I've read so far is that the resistance was fairly "peaceful". They kinda were like "Nah, you can live here but you don't govern me." Which.. had its pros and cons. Anyhow, when you're hunting out in the woods with your dogs and a family member or two, their methods were more than enough. As far as actors in "Prey" I've never seen that before so genuinely I couldn't tell yah.

@@Sellesion I like your response. Its good that you are keeping your traditions alive. Do some of the traditional techniques from Alaska take into account that you will definitely be wearing gloves if you are hunting in the winter? Do you place all your fingers under the arrow when you draw back?

@@MenacingWithVideos thanks! But I should clarify I don't personally hunt with a bow or anything. I just wanted to learn about my tribal history- their stories should be known. As for technique, the arrow shaft before the point rests on the middle finger actually! The thumb cups the bow and the fingers are extended, which I founs surprising. I only found one source for that though, so it makes me curious how much evidence for that there is. About gloves, I didn't find any mention of gloves getting in the way. So it probably was no issue. My tribe is on the southern coast so the weather is fairly mild for a lot of the year and I bet they didn't/don't have to worry to much about having to wear gloves 100% of the time. Especially since they view January as the "time where we sing and dance". It's a time of leisure, to keep moral up during the terrible weather, and works because all the work to prepare and store food was done in prior months when food was more accessible. In modern times my Aunts and Uncles still practice this a lot- they do a lot of smoking and canning during the summer. 😋

The archery crowd were dogmatic and loud and you still get echos that archery had to be a certain way. Thankfully they got debunked and thus there's a lot less now. Only a few styles of archery deal with warbows which these olympic style archers definitely do not. In the early days they would genuinely say 100lbs is impossible- even after the mary rose finds they said the calculation of 200lbs was wrong. Then a guy trained and shoots 200lbs regularly and reliably with the old techniques depicted that the olympic style archers said was bad artwork. Hunting is again very different to target archery- depending on large or small game, requires you to track, shoot from hidden, shoot while moving, and shoot with a clear view if preferred. The 'decoration' may be more than that- tying soft things to the string to prevent reverberation is important in hunting archery, to make it quieter and not scare the prey, or if you miss at least scare it towards you instead. Colours are also useful to make your bow more visible if you put it down or so you do not get shot by your friends. Also large headresses and scary paint of dead animal hats allows you to scare off predators as well. Most things have quite reasonable explanations and the decorative part is often within the allowance of pragmatism and varies on preference. Both camouflage and high visibility are useful when hunting depending on context. I expect there are more to the traditions than you might think, perhaps rather than a clean release for example it was allowed to slip through the fingers perhaps that is quieter etc, or perhaps it is easier to keep stable when moving the bow. Experimentation to find the advantage or disadvantage is helpful.

Yeah it's like you can store up the force your arm muscles make and focus on one tiny point releasing all at once. I keep trying to think of a way to describe an arm becoming a gun but then I just start describing a bow again

BTW it is not entirely true, as demonstrated by a distant relative of archery, muscle powered (break barrel or pump) pellet guns. An arrow can definitely at least in theory pack more energy than a punch primarily because more time is used to build up the bow tension, and compound bows or, of course, crossbows (which are not really REAL bows in the sense of an archery purist) allow building up this energy even more effectively. OTOH energy is transferred to a bow in a pull motion, which limits the force to what the arms can provide - one cannot do the typical martial arts thing of putting your entire body weight into the punch. So, YMMV I guess. Based on this, I wonder if one could build a device that transfers energy and momentum from a punch or kick to an arrow or pellet, and that way exceed what bows or air rifles can do. Obviously any such device would be way less mobile. But think about it - a soccer ball, kicked, contains more energy and momentum than a bullet from an average pistol...

@@divVerent I think the problem you're going to run into there is the efficiency (or lack thereof) of the transfer method. Kicking or punching something loses energy in the moment of impact (sound and heat usually). If what you're kicking or punching is itself a transfer mechanism, then you either lose energy twice, once in hitting the mechanism, once in it hitting the projectile, or you're actually just using the impact to trigger the release of energy already stored in that mechanism (like punching a button to release a spring under pressure). There's also the question of accuracy as the thing you're kicking/punching gets smaller.

Disrespectfully agreed.

VENTI??

I want to see big archer barbarian now

​@@azechase6597 watch the Scorpion King, the Rock playing a Conan-like archer.

Do you mean John Flanagan’s Rangers Apprentice series because if so, I agree. I spent the entire of the video going “Ranger Apprentice doesn’t do this, go John”, and was hoping someone else knew the series. It is such a good series.

@@janusnightshade9848 same. the books make a point to NOT do most of these!

@@z.j.karasik9601 Exactly! John did he's research and you feel it whenever you read a passage about/involving weapons or battle.

"It doesn’t seem like it’s true" Because it actually isn't. Arrows in flight as well as bullets often create a bit of lift. Its not that a lot, so the result won't be much off from what you described. I'm just nitpicking.

@@_aullik Bullets don’t generate any lift, it’s basically impossible because they can’t generate a pressure differential strong enough to affect their flight and the slight pressure changes around a bullet are completely negated by the rifling. That’s the whole point of rifling, to make the bullet fly as straight as possible unaffected by slight changes in aero effects and potential Bernoulli effects. As for arrows, there are rare types of arrows designed to create lift and fly further but they’ve never been used because they sacrifice accuracy and power. Flying further doesn’t help at all if you can’t hit your target and have already lost all of your kinetic energy to air friction. That said, arrows do technically create “lift” but it’s not what you think. Fletching generates dynamic lift for stability as the arrow spins. It essentially creates “lift” and drag in all directions to keep the arrow more level and straight as it flies but these forces are not nearly strong enough to effect the actual weight of the arrow and extend flight at all. This means that there is a net zero lift on the arrow and it falls at the same speed as it normally would. In practice and reality a fired bullet/arrow will hit the ground at the same time as a dropped one, but understanding why/how is important too. Fighting gravity is hard.. it’s rarely done on accident and requires maximum effort or hardcore engineering to accomplish it. Because gravity is one tough bitch.

Exactly, and the acceleration is independent of weight. He says the affect will be more pronounced with heavier arrows, but it's just more "pronounced" (in terms of distance, not time) for slower arrows, and for the same archer, a heavier arrow should be slower.

I will agree with wording it as "Arrows and bullets under similar conditions are subject to the same gravitational force", but I can't agree with being so general as to say they fall at the same "speed" as though no other external forces, such as aerodynamics, are at play in the universe. One could say that it's negligible, but in a big enough system, it can make enough difference that i can't afford to be so ignorant. Since you specifically said "fire" a bullet in the original post, it's worth noting that a fired bullet spins in order to help maintain its trajectory against drag, and trajectory is measured in all 3 dimensions, including up and down. Gravity will certainly supersede in the acting forces on the bullet, but it's safe to say that a dropped bullet with no spin is not doing anything to maintain its trajectory vertically so much as the fired bullet is.

At least with rifles bullet trajectory actually starts by climbing, rather than being fired straight ahead. So with real life rifles it's almost there. For example one I used the sight was accurate at 50m and 150m, meaning bullet was at same height at 50m and 150m distances. It was still climbing higher at 50m but is falling at 150m. It takes very little time to travel that distance so pretty much same still as firing straight ahead.

For example, instead of firing more arrows or larger arrows, they could over time be able to use a form of magic to recreate this effect with a single arrow. For example: an archer readies a shot. They hold it for a few seconds while whispering something, and their bowstring and arrowhead begin to glow with a faint light. They release the arrow, and in midair, four ghostly copies split from the original arrow, causing 5 targets to be hit in the crowd of enemies they were aiming at.

In my teenage arrogance and desire to be cool when I was first learning archery....I did this exact thing! It... did not end well at all. Try explaining the really weird yet massive bruise covering half your face the next day to the school administration.

Thank you! I’m glad I can continue to entertain you 😄 Of course! I know everything is a trade off, and it’s often not the artists who choose to cut corners!

I have used a bow stringer when I was talking about bows to use for beginners, but I’m rarely talking about real-world target archery in videos!

@@blumineck Fair enough!

I think he's using at least three (and the lawn) though - definitely the black (shed?) thing at the end of the garden, the smaller target on the lawn, I *think* the tree, and then a bunch of wild shots that just went into the grass. I'd love to know what his neighbours think LOL

Or to be more accurate, small but muscular. Still fits into the archetype, but with extra accuracy

Thank you!

Yes, the short form video led me here, as well.

I shot my friend's 50lb hunting bow a few weeks back, I was having difficulty just getting it to full draw and I regularly shoot a 25lb bow. Holding a warbow at full draw for more than 5 seconds is a helluva feat of strength

Physical ability is only part of that. For example, Joe Gibbs can hold 130# at full draw for over 30 seconds straight, but he still releases within a second or two of reaching full draw because holding it back for long can damage the bow, especially with a bow that's made from natural materials and/or is high in draw weight. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mqYRQQJEji4.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nFFkf7YLwy8.html

And the better your bow is the further the arrow goes for a given drop, so you have to change how you aim as your tech progresses. It still has the trope of 'the arrow is a different material, therefore it does double the damage!' but I'm willing to take that for gameplay if the aiming mechanics work.

@@Ravaxr I mean, at least the damage scaling for the different arrows makes some modicum of sense. An arrow with a stone/flint arrowhead and actual fletching would fly better and hit harder than one that is just a sharpened stick, and the obsidian and needle arrows are made with a material is either already sharp or can easily be given a very sharp edge, so they would pierce deeper than a normal arrow.

For a hot second I thought you were saying *he* was "not much of a pole dancer" and I was like, wow, judgey 😂😂

Kyudo would be AWESOME for elves! And English/Welsh warbow draw would suit a lot of fantasy orcs very well!

Haha clearly I need to silence my pole for surprise attacks!

Surprisingly finger skin can be pretty tough once calloused.