@@FallicIdol Aye.. The Bohemian Rhapsody polka is a joy to behold. I was never a massive fan of Queen anyway, without actively disliking them like I do a few bands over the years. So me consdiering the polka by far the better version of the song isn't a surprise.
People seem to have forgotten that WeirdAl was pretty polarising back in the day, like it was 50-50 if someone thought he was a genius or an idiot (assuming they'd even heard about him)
@@yeepy7171 So wait.. Not everyone watches his film 'UHF' on at least a yearly basis? To this day I can't hear the animal name badger without saying out loud "We don't need no steenking badgers!"
I think the reason why WiiS360 (I can't remember where that acronym comes from but I like it) doesn't feel retro is because gaming really hasn't moved that much further from it and the tropes established then continue to permiate gaming nowadays. I remember having this debate on reddit since that was the generation i quite literally grew up with (I was born in 2005 and had a Wii and 360 until the mid-to-late 2010s because by parents hated video games), and I realised that, while some things like military shooters, piss filters, QTEs and motion controls are starting to feel pretty 'retro' nowadays, but they're not something you can really bring back in the same way as pixel art or chiptunes (or people really miss). And yeah, even as a teenager, I really appreciate how straightforward retro games are. No overlong cutscenes, no confusing mechanics, no stupid tutorials, no subscription models or microtransactions and they're so easy to emulate and just jump in. And I agree with point 2 as well, the early 3d era is facinating and I love how experimental developers got
They aren't retro as the term retro denotes more than something being old. The 8th console generation was the beginning of dev team bloat and budget bloat, which signifies the end of the AA studio. As such, it will never be retro and honestly neither will the 7th console generation either.
If you do squats daily your knees wont creak as much...but sadly it is. My coworker's kid (around 12) saw my 3DS and was like "woah that's a cool retro console" I said "Its not retro I bought it brand new it cant be that old just yet" He shook his head and said "I'm sorry sir"
I gotta disagree with the fighting game thing. I think in terms of SNES/Genesis fighting games its difficult to find games that really challenge the SF2/Fatal Fury paradigm, but the era of the PS1/Saturn/Dreamcast had some absolutely insane concepts, many which have completely transformed the way FGs play today. And at least as many were experiments which never really went anywhere, even if they could have. Games like Astra Superstars, Battle Tycoon, Gowcaizer, the Marvel series, Psychic Force, Metamoqester, Slap Happy Rhythm Busters, I could go on… I love fighting games even though I’m not an FGC guy, I just love the way the simple formula ends up feeling entirely different from game to game.
top 1 most underrated thing in retro gaming? early home computer games it's always just consoles everywhere, I can't go into a retro game store and pick up a copy of The Dig for the macintosh really seems like the retro community as a whole just doesn't care at all about games for home computers
I feel the same way about arcade games! There are literally thousands and retro gamers really only seem to care about the mega hits (donkey kong, defender, joust, pac-man, galaga, etc.) and the ones that were ported to the NES (contra, jackal, gradius, etc.)
@@zdavisgenki243 arcade games are super cool too, I used to have an Armor Attack cabinet, one of those vector graphics games, but unfortunately I could never get it working, it would have been pretty cool, but yeah, it's always seemed odd to me that everyone is focused on primarily retro consoles I totally understand just not having the space for arcade stuff, but it definitely deserves to be preserved and enjoyed just as much
yea i find that perspective so strange i feel like rpg's are one of the most popular genre's of classic games, despite them being some of the least accessible.
@@richardhunter9779 collectibles are ruled by demand not supply. There are expensive common games and cheap rare games. the demand is my whole point though, they're not underrated, they'll well known and highly sought after. I'm not sure backlogs matter, i have no expectations to ever replay every SNES, PSX & PSP RPG, but i collected them all.
Best thing about retro sport games is that things weren't settled yet so every company had to figure out some kind of gimmick to stand out. As a result every game was at least worth a look. Super Soccer, Super Goal, Tony Meola, Sensible Soccer, ISS, FIFA, even Megaman Soccer. They were all a different experience, despite being based around the same sport.
Ever heard of Pro Yakyū: Family Stadium? It was Madden before Madden, but for Baseball. It was the original yearly release sports series and it was very samey. Also stop pretending to be someone else Dr Wily, we know it's you.
I feel like you're really into Japanese game design, thats why you gravitate towards the 90s and jrpgs specifically. As time as gone on, the Japanese game development has not been near as big as they have in the past.
as a fighting game FREAK, i can tell you that fighting games have extremely changed mechanically over the years. in street fighter 2, combos were only kind of on purpose, there was literally no input buffer, throws were literally not escapable, etc. as someone who’s also an rpg lover, i would even go as far as to say there are enough huge shifts between each fighting game that it is nearly as wide as the rpg genre.
Fighting games are kinda like metal lol. If you're into metal there's like a bajillion subgenres that are like miles apart, but if you're not into it there's only like a sorta approachable outer crust and a wide ocean of screaming dudes
@@kameoosama LOL TRUE. i got lucky and grew up listening to the super best friend cast so like. fighting game shit was getting pumped directly into my brain all the time
Sega CD doesn't have security software so you can just burn discs and play them in any Sega CD console. No need to spend $1200 on a copy of snatcher. 👍
That's facts on RPGs. I think a big part of RPGs is that it was either centered on PCs which has little coverage in retro spaces unless you are talking late 90s or Japanese game culture which is hard to do research on. Like I don't know how much misconceptions have been stated in JRPGs by random people such as Chrono Trigger being the first game with multiple endings, which is just incorrect. Which brings me to another issue with retro gaming culture which is the overreliance on nostalgia which makes games outside Japan hold more weight than ones released inside it despite the huge number of influential and amazing games that haven't left the shore. Dragon Quest V is barely acknowledged as a masterpiece, despite the fact that it is one of the best RPGs on the Super Famicom, because it was not released in the west. It's so frustrating to see stuff like that just completely ignored, which is why I'm thankful for people like RndStranger who really bring that context to a western audience. And as far as sports games tho, I don't really understand the appeal, but then again I never was into professional sports. I personally would rather just play them in real life, as playing them is just a lot of fun.
Nostalgia is genuinely something that bothers me the most about Retro Gaming, and the fact that a lot of Retro Gamers/Gamers seem to have this attitude that gaming is just terrible now and gaming was better "In X year", usually and always something they played and remember as a child or hold in such high regard + rose tinted glasses that you can't trust their opinion on it at all because they're too biased on the subject. I've played so many trash ass games back in the day that it wasn't even funny, most of the games were barely average if that. Sure there was a ton of great games, but, they all are steeped in legitimately issues that modern games have solved. The point is, I've been playing games for quite some time. My first game I truly remember was the original Windows release of Doom. I've played through every generation there has been since that point in time. I also play a lot of retro PC games and have looked at them from a non-biased point of view. The Majority of them are insanely clunky, obtuse, outright waste your time, legitimately can be unfair, and they all have some issue that can be anywhere from minor to major. I play a lot of dRPGs, and I know *barely* anybody plays dRPGs/FPS Dungeon Crawlers. I can still find a ton of games in the modern era that I have enjoyed that have come out in the past five years. With many more to come on the way, and many more have even been released recently. Some of them range from modernized to busting out the gridpaper to draw map levels of old school. How is it that these people manage to never find *anything* they enjoy in modern gaming?
@@ProfMarkQ I'm a 21st Century Boy, so I literally just play the games to see how fun they are, and the ones I've played have held up pretty well. I just feel that a lot of retro gamers are closed minded and only want to play games from their childhood, and not explore what the retro world has to offer. I feel like I am pretty resilient to "clunkiness" as I found Final Fantasy I on NES quite playable, and I love the controls of Castlevania games. Also what are some retro PC games that have and haven't aged well. I want to get into that retro space but the amount of games both influential and well regarded seems is overwhelming as I just see a bunch of PC models that update, have different games, and ports of existing games. I do want to play Ultima 3/4 and Wizardry, but are those not fun anymore?
@@thomasffrench3639 as someone who's played the trinity of PC RPGs of Ultima/wizardry/might and magic, Ultima and might and magic surprisingly hold up well. Wizardry does not. You know the old phrase "games before Nintendo are like silent films"? Well, retro PC games take that to the 9th degree. Mechanics and longevity were secondary to pushing hardware. Ultima 1 to 3 are like cave painting while 4 and 5 are cave paintings trying to tell the epic of Gilgamesh. 6 and 7 hold up extremely well of course. Same with the majority of might and magic games. Wizardry is a chore and could never finish one from before 7. I don't care how influencial they are, I don't care how much of an orgasm they gave Yuji horii and Sakaguchi. They are boring and painful to play nowadays. The oldest I would suggest to go with wizardry is 6.
@@dugonman8360 Interestingly, Wizardry is well loved in Japan, it seems that the ones people hate are Wizardry 6-8. I personally was planning on only playing Wizardry 1 then just skipping to Wizardry 6. I know you say it does not hold up well, but I still am interested in it. And I don't know if silent films sounds as bad as you think it does. All of the silent films I've seen I really enjoyed, so that does not sound bad. I heard that Ultima 1 and 2 have aged so much worse. Is there any other old PC games that are fun that aren't RPGs, or are RPGs the only somewhat enjoyable early PC games?
@@thomasffrench3639 oh, I definitely suggest giving Ultima, wizardry and might and magic a shot. They are three of the most influencial PC games ever made and I hold them up there with dragon quest, final fantasy and phantasy star. It's just, to me, the first five wizardry games are like trying to decipher binary with a compass. Mind you, the silent film analogy is not saying any of those movies were bad. Not at all, but it's definitely harder for someone nowadays to watch Metropolis over King Kong. It's obviously enjoyable but you need to put expectations in order. As for retro PC games that aren't RPGs, my knowledge of stuff from the 80s is pretty crappy but almost all the classics from the 90s are definitely worth a shot! Especially those old point and click games like Sam and Max, day of the tentacle, full throttle, anything by Lucas arts.
#2 regarding early 3D didn't age well, I feel when people say this, they're talking about games that were shooting for realistic graphics. I feel like stylized retro 3D is very popular
You’re so right. You can’t look at Xenogears and tell me early 3D looks like shit. There’s so much style. Heck early 3D horror games provide a certain type of horror that can’t be replicated with modern graphics.
It obviously depends on the game, but people be acting like Joe and Mac is a better game than Resident Evil 2, because "2D ages better than 3D". I say good game design ages better than bad design, and a lot of those early 3D games had good design even with their limited controllers.
The last 4 or 5 years I’ve been getting reacquainted with the 32 bit era and I am blown away by the amount of cool stuff done in that era. I used to just not be into 3d games, but now that I’ve dug pretty deep (specifically in the Saturn and Ps1 library) I have totally turned that opinion around. I really appreciate the kind of effort and experimentation that went into those games, and how things will never be that unique ever again by virtue of the limitations not necessary to work around like those times.
I think the most underrated and not talked thing in a retro gaming community is PC games. For some strange reason most youtubers are full on consoles only when in reality there are even more awesome DOS and Windows98 games than on all consoles combined. And more often than not console games was also either originated on PC or was ported to it. And the world of trully great PC exclusives or better-than-console-versions is enormous
That's so true. ADG yt channel has been going years doing dos games and he covered about 500 shareware games from a free cd he had of I think 1000. But ful reviews of dos games. He can be obsessive and release videos about stats he can't see and spends ages figuring out how the game is wrong. Those are boring but the reviews are cool. He's doing C64 now. But I told him that thing is garbage and it is.
I’ve notice the same thing. So many channels seem to skip over them. Maybe it’s because they’re hard to set up but it still feels like a missed opportunity
Retro is not just a certain age difference imo, it's when the game design (or the audiovisuals) of the game(s) has gone out of fashion at some point and then returned Anyway, great list!
Well said. 7th gen will never be “retro” until there is another massive shift in the industry like going from 2D to 3D. 7th gen was the start of the trends we still see today. Very little has actually changed.
The 3-D pad for the Saturn was not utilized much. I’m happy to see you show it off. One of my favorite games on the Saturn is Kights into Dreams which in the US was released with the 3D pad. But very few games after that supported it and it was more like an afterthought. Some games could use it but didn’t need it exclusively.
I've been playing the saturn a bunch this week............ Honestly I think I prefer the boring non 3d controller. Maybe mine just has a bad d-pad or something though.
@@JasonGravesPoserYeah I do too, it's much easier to hold. But Saturn was such a great console, sad to see it fall so hard. Dreamcast was in the same boat.
24:38 Fun fact: they did, in fact, bother to make it a full game. It's called Sonic Adventure. The thing you can play in Sonic Jam here is basically its Sega Saturn prototype.
i didn't know there was people who don't admit to listening to minecraft music, c148 is a highly respected musician know and beloved by many millions of people. i feel like there joke is going over my head here.
Y'know, I've always wanted a Sports RPG. You'd start as a kid playing on your school team, doing real life social things, like in Persona. As you progress and eventually become a Pro, you have to decide how you want to interact with major decisions off the field, possibly getting involved in scandals, or shaping your brand image as a celebrity. At the end you either play to win the World Series/Superbowl/Whatever, or maybe become a coach or the owner of a team. But your character's life is a big part of the narrative from beginning to end.
I know there is a soccer series on ps4 that's an rpg. There are several sports RPGs in Japan. The Mario Golf games and Hot Shots Golf games are mostly rpgs too, as in building a character's stats. I believe there are a few on the PC Engine as well. The genre exists to a certain degree.
It's so hard for me to see RPGs as "underrated" considering the SNES & PSX's whole reputations are centered around those, but i guess for other consoles you might be right. My slam-dunk most underrated thing in retrogaming is arcade games...that didn't get console ports and weren't licensed games. If you dig into the depths of MAME, you will find SO much more creative and aesthetically daring stuff than consoles had overall; over time i've come to realize that the arcade scene was that era's equivalent to indie games, since there was no Nintendo Seal of Quality process and anybody could shit anything out into a game center as long as they had hardware to program onto. Look up Nitro Ball as an example of what i'm talking about, or Gaiapolis as a fascinating case of making the RPG model work in the arcade. Also the X-Men arcade beatemup is ass and Metamorphic Force is a strictly better version of the same game. There's tons of shit like this out there that none of the retrotubers talk about at all!
Lol there's so much i could say about these (not disagreeing, just interesting stuff to dig into there) but the RPG thing makes me so mad lol. Like I've been into jRPGs since Dragon Warrior I and pretty much rank consoles entirely by what the quality RPGs were for it, and then I'll see a Nintendo RU-vidr say the latest Direct was "awful" when it has like 5 really good RPG announcements, I have to swear off that channel for awhile. (This goes double if they have a bunch of pokemon-focused content)
I'd say sports games are the country music of games. They're also actually the same shit over and over, unlike the fighting game genre as a whole. RPGs are kind of underrated by some people, I guess, but Final Fantasy games helped win console wars in the 90's. There was a saying I don't hear as much anymore: "Read the fucking manual." In the early 2000's especially there were kids just getting into older games that didn't realize that some manuals are practically mandatory for older games. There wasn't enough memory in most games to include tutorials or even the story, so it all had to go in the manual.
Games from the 6th and 7th gen are at rock bottom? God i cant wait to see how expensive Fire Emblem Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn gets in the future LMFAO.
If it’s fair to boil down and write off the entire fighting genre as Street Fighter 2 clones with better graphics, why do sports get a free pass? Why is it okay for EA to barf out the same game every year if nothing significant changes but the roster? Can’t they update the rosters instead of exploiting the consumer and give their developers enough time for there to be a reason for a new version?
Killer Instinct was the ending revolution for fighting games IMO on 2D Killer Instinct on arcade and on SNES dominated every other fighter... people who know , know. Mortal Kombat was clumsy and clunky, Street Fighter fun but not as technical (some clunky moves too) ... KI was precise and swift
A lot of early 3D is ugly now but some of it has charm. I still appreciate the look of the original Virtua Fighter. One may get the idea the creators were trying to turn the Money for Nothing music video into a game but it at the time it was the first time polygonal humans were playable in a game and they really got the animation right on their first try. Oh, and I loved that 10th Anniversary mode on VF4 Evolution because those simple graphics are so appealing.
As a long time fighting game player I think it's kinda similar to sports games in the way it's stuck to its rules. There are "fighting" games that break the mold but then a big portion of the competitive scene just doesn't recognize it as a fighting game at all
Top sports games? Retro to me!!! DreamCast NFL 2K , NFL 2K1, NFL 2K2. Pinnacle of controls and fun!> Cuz i am a QB runner style of player. + a great Running Back and I do the running n fake pass to run... and run!! So I love Tecmo Super Bowl (NES). Which is better than even the SNES TSB1. TSB2 & TSB3 on SNES beat the Genesis versions. Tecmo Bowl is horrendous, no player and team concordance. NBA Jam Tournament Edition! So fun! NHL 94, NHL 96, NHL 97, NHL 98 are still fun on SNES, 1995 i never played. NHL 99 and 2000 on PC were fun but archaic, 2001 and 2002 not bad. 2003 changed too much and began the "modern era" of Electronic Arts / EA Sports.
I think the debate about the 360/PS3 generation being retro comes down to the diminishing returns of every generation. At a glance the average person would be hard pressed to tell which was which if you compared a screenshot from a AAA PS3 game and a modern one. There’d be no question if you compared an NES screenshot to PS3. I’d even argue that there’s been a bigger leap graphically and gameplay wise between PS2 to PS3 than there’s been in the last 15-20 years.
the hard reality I've faced when recently fired up some ps3 giants was that their gameplay did not aged well. the controls and camera movement in most action games were horrible by todays standards. so it's not only looks but also feels
retro isn't an automatic age thing. retro games are built different. hte PS3/360 era of games are basically the same games as you get today. DLC, HD, Online, etc. games are simply built different. 360 era is just old modern games. they are not retro. Agreed with it being the last truly collectable era of games though, Switch is the only console today that has a healthy collecting scene.
I love booting up old FIFAs just looking at the squad lists. And I know Football Manager is just the spreadsheet game, but it was so much less complicated 10 years ago. You can fire an old one up and there's still a community patching the squads every 6 months
Man the "pixel art has aged better than 3D games" is so annoying in retro discourse because it assumes that there's no 16 bit games that look like crap or early 3D games that look good. It is all in how it's used. Not to mention that it is nice to play a game with different controls, as I think that a lot of early 3D stuff is still fun to play today. It's like any generation, it has amazing and not so amazing games, I don't think that early 3D games need to be specifically called out on it. "But tank controls," No!, most cameras today control like shit, just because it was slightly worse in the 90s doesn't make these games unplayable messes. Also find it funny that people will say that they don't like sprite based games, then these same people will say "graphics don't matter" like they didn't shit talk PS1 or N64 games visuals just before.
@@Chelaxim The only ones I can think of have aged well, and although I believe you I would appreciate some examples, even if just to use it as an example.
#4 - I agree, but also, you need to play more TurboGrafx CD. If you don't have a CD unit or a Duo, you've got less than half of the TG16/PCE library, as there are actually more games for the add-on than the base machine. That thing is fucking great, and only gets better as more stuff gets translated.
There's no denying that some versions of sports games are better than others. NHL '94 is one of my favorite hockey games (NHL '99 on N64 and NHL2K on Dreamcast are both up there as well). To this day, my favorite version of Madden is John Madden Football on the 3DO (what I like to erroneously call "Madden '94"). It combines great 2D graphics with the simplicity that got lost in the later Madden games.
FMV games ARE cool. I mean, they're not necessarily good, in fact they're not USUALLY good, but that's what makes them so cool. As you said, they're a relic of their time. Aside from a few games here and there, nobody even bothers to make such games anymore. And watching FMV on something like the Sega CD or 3DO is totally different than watching modern FMV, which just looks exactly the same as any high-def video on anything.
I've been watching your content since jump. It's been great watching you evolve and find your voice in this overcrowded space. All I can say is keep it up. Your work is gold and your ability to reflect on yourself and the industry is a breath of fresh air. Don't stop being YOU. Keep up the great work.
I totally skipped the 360/PS3 generation, partially because I was still happy playing my PS2, and partially because every time I'd go to play my friend's PS3 later on, there were always updates required which took like an hour to accomplish. For me, the experience of picking up a game and playing was being ruined, and this was also when the focus had started shifting massively towards online multiplayer content, which I was never interested in. Having said all that, the 360/PS3 generation had some amazing games, a lot of which I missed out on the first time around. The hardware was also pretty awesome as well. While it's usually pretty easy to tell a 360 game from an original Xbox game (as good as a lot of those games looked), it's often pretty hard to tell the difference between a PS3 game and the remastered version on PS4. Or rather, even if you can tell a difference, it's not a huge difference, it's usually just higher resolution and higher quality assets, but it's stuff that largely doesn't impact the gameplay or improve the experience that much. The nice thing about these consoles is that, despite their complexity, a ton of great work has been done in emulating them. In particular, it's interesting to note that 360 emulation is still better than original Xbox emulation which kind of blows my mind given the hardware differences). I'm pretty sure this can be chalked up to the use of hypervisors within the OSes of these consoles, which provides further abstraction of the hardware from the game software. In fact, I play more 360 and PS3 games today than I play my PS4 (I have no desire to buy a PS5 and my only interest in the Xbox Series X is as a compact PC). We had large, open worlds and cinematic experiences on the Xbox and PS2, but the 360 and PS3 was when those kinds of experiences were really perfected. I don't always like playing those types of games, but when I do, I can mostly get my fill from those consoles. Or, if I want to play something newer (like RDR2), then I can just use my PC. (Incidentally, that's another aspect in favor of the 360 and PS3: PC gaming support wasn't quite great back then, so often games from that era are more easily played today using emulation rather than actually running the PC version.) The variety of the gaming library also saw a peak of sorts during this generation. While remakes and ports exist, there will still plenty of original IPs and new games within existing IPs rather than the glut of remakes that became standard with newer consoles. I can't say that the 360/PS3 generation is my favorite generation of gaming, because it's not, not by a long shot, but it was definitely a golden age of sorts in a LOT of ways.
7:38 -- Regarding RPGs: I can tell you that as somebody who was prime age for Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat in 1992-93 (12-13 years old), they were certainly the *hot* ticket for a few years and me and my friends and family played the hell out of them. Part of the joy was before the internet and only learning about the special moves through gaming magazines and word-of-mouth. Between those things and playing them at arcades, there was a certain social thing going on at the time that just couldn't happen at any other time in quite the same way. However...Playing fighting games now has made me realize that they have aged horribly and whenever I revisit Street Fighter II or MK I am bored out of my mind. It's like chewing gum that loses its flavor within a few minutes. Meanwhile...RPGs are the genre that keep GIVING, as I find myself drawn more into story-based games with immersive music and visuals and that require more time to process and understand. They were perhaps my least-favorite genre as a kid, but my favorite as an adult. (I do admit to still loving a good side-scrolling brawler, if only for the social aspect of having a good co-op game of Streets of Rage 1 or 2.)
My long-standing hot take was that 90s Mortal Kombat was always kinda bad gameplay-wise but was really popular with people who weren't hardcore into fighting games due to fatalities being a really good gimmick that anybody could pull off with some practice. Street Fighter II Tubo/Super Turbo is still kinda fun but it feels so unforgiving now. Fighters from the Late 90s/early 2000s though mostly hold up to me, like I still love the SNK games from that era and Alpha 3, Darkstalkers 3, etc.
@@AnAverageGoblin oh it's not really about speed, every input on a combo string has its own timing based on the frame data of the move you're coming off of so it all takes a lot of practice to get that down
The early 3D era is the second best era of gaming (right behind the 16-bit era). Yeah, there are a lot of warts in the games. Developers had to learn a ton about making 3D games, which were monumentally harder than the old 2D games. And yeah, there was an over-emphasis on 3D, but that also meant that the 2D games that came out during that generation were some of the best made as well. Everything was so rapidly improving. Even a machine as simple and cheap as the original Playstation was capable of some REALLY amazing things later in its life. And yeah, sometimes the controls sucked. But it's possible to get over it. For example, I get tired of people who complain about how unplayable Tomb Raider is. I mean, if it was really that unplayable, then it wouldn't have spawned an entire franchise. "Yeah, but gamers back then were more forgiving because it was ground-breaking back then." Okay, well it was still obviously playable enough for the majority of the game's audience. In fact, I'd even argue that part of the experience of the game was learning its controls. It certainly offers a different experience compared to any modern cookie cutter game. The PS2 era is IMO the third best era of games, and that's because again the leap in graphics and gameplay was still so large. But as awesome as it was, nothing can ever really match the crazy and wonderful experience of early 3D games.
The unique controller situation, in regards to emulation, frustrates the hell out of me. Example: try playing Mario Sunshine with an Xbox One controller. Sure, you can map everything out, but nothing beats the original Gamecube controller because it has analog triggers that have a digital click mechanism. This is something I didn't realize about the Gamecube controller until YEARS after the system was dead. I even owned and played that system with many games and I never noticed the clicking function until I went to play Mario Sunshine via emulation and the controls were driving me crazy. I ended up buying a brand new Gamecube controller just to be able to play that game properly. Same with trying to map out the N64 buttons to an Xbox controller. Screw that. To a much smaller extent, even playing some original Xbox games with its black and white buttons doesn't quite feel right (it's a bit like trying to map the Saturn buttons to a controller with 4 face buttons). I ended up buying a Retro Fighters Hunter gamepad because I was tired of trying to play original Xbox games with a modern controller. I just want the experience of the original game on the original hardware, including the original controller! (Which, by the way, Nintendo needs to make more of those NSO N64 controllers, because they're awesome.) This isn't a complaint about the uniqueness of the original controllers, but an indictment of the gaming experience when every controller is reduced down to being the same exact thing. While I love the layout of modern controllers and it exists in the basic form for good reason, it's not good enough to cover all retro games. There isn't, and there never was, one single controller that could provide the best experience for all games. That's part of the charm of retro gaming, and honestly I miss the period of gaming where companies were actually trying to be innovative rather than just sticking to a formula.
I never played RPGs back in the day. I remember a friend of mine turning on FFIII on SNES when I was at his house and I just didn't get it. I didn't have the mindset to enjoy and appreciate an RPG at that age. Decades later, they're one of my favorite things to play on SNES. Opening up to these games is like opening up to an entire different system library; all of these awesome games exist and while a lot of them have similar elements, they differ in so many ways. It kind of blows me away how much creativity there was back then and how much stuff actually got localized.
Never was into sport video games, with a couple exceptions back in the day: Baseball Simulator 1.000 for SNES and Stanley Cup Hockey. Tried to like NBA Jam but never really clicked with me in the end.
I grew up with Sports games AND other stuff. I also never understood the hate those games got. I knew multiple people with the 32X and absolutely nobody CD lol but and yeah the CD is underrated. And yes, the PS1 and Saturn are GREAT. Early 3D titles had to have a lot of personality thrown at them. Once the PS4 generation rolled around all the personality was basically gone. Oh and Weird Al rules. Never met someone who didn't think so. You troll.
I hate sports games due to very personalized reasons. But I've played a solid share of them. Not just for the sake of trying. But I honor and respect your thesis on it. IF YOU MUST KNOW HOWEVER. ITS SPACESHIP SHOOTERS THAT ARE MOST UNDERATED. NOT GUNS. SPACE CRAFTS....😎 R-Type, Gradius, Return Of The Space Invaders, Gate Of Thunder, Lords Of Thunder.
I found RPGs to be most sought after and applauded classic games, also most expensive since in demand. So probably overated I grew up in same gen, old school ps1 Turn Based RPG worlds are amazing to me but I hate turn based without monster collecting with a passion. That's why I love FF7 Remake series. The OG game every fight felt the same once you fought that enemy once.
I do like some old sports games. I like them considerably better than modern or semi-modern ones as games. Blades of Steel is fun. NHL 96 is super fun because it is not a great simulation (but a fun game). NBA Jam is seriously fun for everyone, sports fans or not.
Since you really like sports games I wanna recommend a hidden gem if there ever was one on consoles. Dusty Diamond's All Star Softball for the NES. I don't generally like sports games and I don't care about baseball, but I've had a blast with this game since the early 90s. The strongest aspect of the game is how much fun it is experimenting with everyone, cause all 60 characters bring something to the table, some of it being VERY hidden.
I think there's a weird mix of factors with RPGs being the "country music" of retro gaming, right? A lot of people who are _not that into retro gaming_ still play these games, and I think that's one interesting contributing factor. I love RPGs and I love weeb stuff but there is 100% a bias for being like a "western gamer" in the retro gaming scene A lot of retro gamers love brutally hard western games or some lean more towards simply going after rare stuff, no matter how bad it is. The TRUE retro gamer isn't the guy playing Shin Megami Tensei, Metal Storm, and Hagane... It's the guy who plays the shitty games that suck ass heh I'm not getting any retro gaming credit for playing Final Fantasy 6. Everyone loves Final Fantasy 6 lol
Then you look at how much some of these games sold ,just like with country music, you realize there are people who won't admit they're fans. Garth Brooks is the 20th best-selling musical act of all time.
@@tictacterminator you got me there as I have not played the portable Vanias due to DS ones being locked on that particular, and I never saw a sale on the Advance collection so I haven’t played those either. I was referring to Rondo of Blood
Great list as was the last one. Well, I didn't get to leave an angry comment because you addressed my concern of "original hardware" by saying you enjoy "original controllers"... I don't agree in most cases but in many cases, yes, original controllers or at least comparable ones are under-rated. It's why the Hori dogbone controller for GameCube is so expensive: those of us who enjoy the Game Boy Player on GCN need a comfortable controller. Or I can play my ROMs on a PC, lol. BUT... I don't put my GameCube on an upscaler: I bought a $10 Enhanced Definition TV (like 480i) so... fuck it. I have a project of putting the custom scaling software after putting a card reader into my Game Cube but then the GBA remakes of Phantasy Star came out with better enhancements on Switch so the audio and screen ratio are much better so no longer need that, haha.
Sega CD superior to Turbografx? Now there is a scorcher of a hot take. I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer Ys or Lunar. Honestly I don't think I can make that call. Turbo CD does a have a few of my all timers (the Ys series especially this version of IV and Dracula X) but those didn't actually come to the US, so Sega CD would still win in America, right? Honestly this sounds like a big enough topic for a full video.
Antique cars need to be 25 years old. Gaming is half as old overall as motor vehicles; therefore, split the difference and we get Retro qualifying as 13 years & older. CHANGE MY MIND!
Man, I still play retro sports games, especially baseball and golf (for me). Last year, I realized that I have NEVER played a 3d baseball game until I picked up the Sega ST-V arcade cart for Final Arch. Even a straight forward sports game like that is fun.
Agree on many things. But PS3 just works? Nah, not ALWAYS. Once I rented a Star Wars Force Unleashed game (1 or 2) and it had to do an update on the console to play... crashed during a Vader force pushing a wall and never re-started. Returned it and explaind the case if others happened to have the same problem wit hthat game... some games have no servers anymore and are thus "dead discs" or "a game menu experience" only. Like how you can still enjoy the extras in the menu of a DVD or a frickin DVD menu when they are made well. I say L buy "dead games" if you enjoy the physical item. It can also be fun to "look at" on a shelf to many gamers. We are free to decide! Power to the gamers!
Living in massachusetts i feel your pain with syracuse football never winning a title. BUT atleast youve got syracuse basketball!! Which has always been pretty top tier in my lifetime. Especially in 2003 with melo. Im a Boston College fan and they never win shit except Hockey where as my actual hometown of Lowell Massachusetts has a pretty good Hockey team that plays in the same division as BC so Im not so much of a BC hockey fan.
12 minutes in and I agree with a lot. Good points... we are similar in retro and love sports. I've played every Madden, super mega baseball... but also have finished FF10, new Prince of persia.. amount others. Imma follow and check you out bro
Your first point was that the PS3, Xbox360, and Wii are retro consoles. Your second point was that retro consoles had unique controllers. You also listed pack-in content and unique ports as emblematic of retro games. Ummmm...
I also don't mind emulation but really like having a controller like the original. I wanted to do original controllers but didn't like buying adapters, so a good quality USB or Bluetooth controller is how I play. Also, I could be wrong g, but I think the NES and game gear versions of Jurassic park are also different (I'd guess gameboy, too). I miss those crazy versions and instruction manuals too.
Yeah, I was also an eclectic player of video games as a kid. I rented any and every genre. I was happy to play Final Fantasy one day and then Madden the next. Like you, the idea of drawing some line where this is for nerds and this is for jocks just didn't exist for me. Though I did prefer the sports games with some fantastical element, like Baseball Simulator 1.000 or Bill Laimbeer's Combat Basketball
Would have never expected you to be a Syracuse fan. I remember in my organic chem class, my professor mentioned he used to be a professor at Syracuse University, but quit because of the football players he'd get in his freshman chemistry class. According to him, they were dumber than rocks and would fail every exam. But because they're so respected as athletes, the higher ups at the school pressured my professor to change their grades to maintain their GPA. I guess thats Syracuse. They have 0 academic integrity, but at least they can play football 🤷♂️
I can't really imagine the 360/PS3 going retro because gaming hasn't changed since those consoles were introduced. The 360 pretty much invented modern gaming, the hardware just keeps getting better but it's the same and as long as there's no overhaul to how we experience these games then I can't really see them within the same conversation as the GameCube, Xbox, Genesis or whatever. Also yeah I agree that FFVIIR just blows. I think if that game didn't already of a following based on the name alone it'd be dead in the water which happened to Rebirth when that came out like a month ago.
Controllers need one improvement: hall effect analog sticks, more precise and durable than potentiometer-based sticks. But the only console maker that used the obviously superior tech was Sega. The others didn't care, if it starts drifting, suckers will buy a replacement anyway! Good thing those superior sticks are getting common on the PC side.
Your #3 is an intriguing point. One IP can have many different games across the platforms. I'll have to disagree with your #2 though. Those old cameras,yeeeesh.
Disagree on the RPG point tbh. They are some of the highest valued, sought after and collectible titles on almost every system. That wouldn't exist if there isn't a high demand. I'd argue they were ignored more in the 360/PS3 generation more than the older stuff.
I actually just purchased and refunded the first FF7 remake. Choose not fun as the reason too. Yeah the graphics seemed cool but there is no need to pad out that game. I also despised the new battle system. Holy shit, is it shitty.
A good music analogy for retro sports gaming might be heavy metal. It's divisive; decidedly not for most retro gamers, but those who are into it are very into it.
Pretty new subscriber and loving your content. You make good points, have good takes. Most things have been said to death, but you really do have something unique. Keep on.
just found your channel but thank you for shouting out old sports games. i swear every gaming youtube channel is like ew useless sports game i was bullied as a high schooler by the jock!!! when games like mvp baseball and nfl 2k5 fucking kick ass
No. I am in your sub-genre of human. I like all the fun games of all types - especially old Sports games. I would argue that they become overly complicated and too simulationy
I don't think it's true that you only get a license with physical media now. I've heard it might be true for certain games on Xbox, but not on Switch or Playstation.
You say people don’t care about old RPGs and old sports games and yet old RPGs are often super expensive whereas old sports games are always sold at shovelware prices
Honestly after some of the game store delistings I always get physical for game I really care about. Especially if it is a licensed property {Cowabunga collection).
Mentioning manuals reminded me of the time when I played Divine Divinity, first game from Larian studios, few years ago. I refused to read anything "online" about the game, rather I found the old manual in pdf form somewhere and enjoyed referring to that.
I have an Xbox 360 system link network where we can play multiplayer in case of the apocalypse and six dollars a copy I can afford to buy four of each game
I miss when companies at least tried to respect the player's intelligence. overly-long hallways explaining things and tutorials, yellow tape, all of it make newer games boring and unfun. as well as most things coming out looking the same with the same camera the same "haha look we're trying to be funny" writing that isn't genuine at all
It feels like a majority of games are designed today are done so by a dollar/hours of entertainment ratio. So much padding exist so that every game has to be THE game they spend the entire month(s) playing to completion. I don't get that same feeling playing retro games even if that was more of the limitation of the cartridge size rather than a conscious choice.
