#105 

Yes, this was helpful! I found toners to be a confusing and all-over-the-place category, and this has been comforting, because I`m not the only one!

I’d love a video on the newer and more novel retinoids, particularly HPR (hydroxypinacolone retinoate) and retinyl retinoate! I know Medik8 makes a retinyl retinoate product and I’d love your thoughts on these compounds

It’s funny that you missed the protease for the sugarcane, because I think round lab’s marketing has shifted in this exact direction over time…2 years ago when I tried it, their marketing was all about their “patented HATCHING EX-07” (protease) but consumer and influencer discourse only focuses the sugarcane. I thought I was crazy, but revisiting their website they’ve completely shifted away from highlighting protease and highlight sugarcane as an exfoliant 😂

I have watched people test cleansers and a lot them on the American market are closer to 8 which is alkaline I noticed that my skin improved when I used cleansers that were 6 or 6.5 (I have oily skin - 30 years old)

I really enjoy toners/essences, but I'm with you on their role as a supporting product. I never expect my toners to dramatically change my skin. As far as product categories, it feels like most categories overlap (toner vs. essence vs. serum vs. ampule) in that marketing labeling has made the labels misleading. In that sense I feel you'll run into similar issues as what you experienced here with different categories with the exception of the core cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen steps. What might be very interesting though would be pros and cons of addressing specific goals using different product categories. For example I don't need much exfoliation and I don't like leave on products as a result, so I do 95% of my exfoliation with a powder enzyme cleanser (once or twice a week) and the remaining via wash off masks I can use if I ever feel congested. Others may want a reliable serum, or toner as you addressed in this video, while some could use an exfoliating night mask or moisturizer. There may be pros and cons to consideration on each of these routine steps (is an exfoliating moisturizer going to be effective if you apply it after a 10 step skincare routine, or will an exfoliating serum with certain ingredients be effective if you just used 4 layers of toner and are following up 4 seconds later with another product). This gives the opportunity to introduce different product categories into the discussion points while keeping the discussion high level, but also lets you steer people into the "skin goals" direction that is likely to help out. Btw I'm a recent subscriber just starting to look through the backlog of podcasts, so if this has already been done please disregard and I'm sure I'll wander across it in the coming months.

I love toners for layering my actives that I don’t like in other formats, for example, I started using a European Gluconolactone 15% toner after you guys mentioned its efficacy at acne (wich did wonder for me, better than mandeloc acid), and the only other format I could find at those levels are just creams

“Colour me shocked” 😂 you girls are adorable! And this was very helpful - thanks!

Thank you for covering this topic. I had been wondering about protease in toners as well as the new The Ordinary toner. This podcast helped me understand the ingredients.

I found this episode quite helpful! I love Victoria's reminder to shop by primary skin concern and I definitely agree toners are so confusing to the uninitiated. I appreciate Gloria being the wet blanket or as I like to call it, a healthy dose of reality 😂

Despite the viral toners like dokdo, haru haru, abib, anua etc, i find myself keep coming back to the make prem safe me relief essence toner. It's a simple toner but that is one of the few toner that actually quench my dehydrated skin. It also pairs well with my other barrier supporting products that i find my dehydration wasn't as severe as it used.

Toners are there for people who like to complicate the things they are passionate about. The gamble of finding an obscure allergy among the dozens of botanical extracts probably excites a few people too. Another excuse to buy another toner!

Hi! I have been wondering about toners so this video is very timely. I do appreciate trying to categorize toners also so the topic is more manageable to talk about. There are some very popular toners like this ones mentioned in this video that I just haven’t know how or if I should add them to my routine. Do you think that it would boost the hydration power of toners to apply them over damp skin? Or is the high amounts of water already present in toners enough so that isn’t necessary? Would it kind of be accurate to say that toners are kind of like the helpfulness of splashing water on the face? For someone with oily skin, are they any replacement for a moisturizer, or are they booster products only? Such as in a layering capacity adding water and some humectants? Maybe it’s hard to answer as the toner category is so broad. It can even include toners with actives like AHA or BHA of high amounts of plant extracts which you recommend. For the plant extract category, it sounds like even then that toners are possibly the less effective version of something such as has the science made version of the plant active ingredient instead of the active. At the end of the day, I still feel very waffled about toners. What about the toners with instructions to apply them three times like the Naturie Hatomugi toner? Why would that be necessary? I struggle to understand why wouldn’t the formulators just increase the percentage. Is it something to do with saturating the skin with water? On a related note, is there truth to the claim that water can intensify the strength of actives? Why would that be? Should splashing my face with water be a part of my routine, or should I avoid having damp skin with certain actives?

It's always interesting seeing different takes on toners so the video is appreciated. Every time I hear milky toner I keep seeing Dr. Idriss' short kind of ranting about them. I thought The Ordinary toner was also being billed as an exfoliating toner. And then you have the ilia base face milk that bills itself as an essence and light moisturizer.

So helpful. I have a moisturizing toner but honestly I never really use and the Ordinary 7% Glycolic toner for my chest and upper back which is the GOAT for body acne. I am more of a serum girlie. The Cerave Vitamin C and The Inkey List Q10 are my antioxidants for day and The Ordinary Resveratrol at night in my night cream.

What about using toner to mainly help subsequent actives penetrate better or to buffer powerful actives???

You miss talking about the Rhodes milky toner!! 😭

Very helpful!

Is there a benefit of using toner to acidify the skin such as to use salicylic acid to help vitamin c penetrate better? Does toners with alcohol have a place despite falling out of fashion, such as to strengthen the effects of AHA, BHA, vitamin c, etc? There’s a section Skincare Decoded that recommends a humectants forward moisturizer as the only moisturizer oily skin might need. Is that basically a toner, or is there a line that separates a toner from humectant forward moisturizer? Not quite sure I understand what a moisturizer is

Very Informative, I learned so much, Thank You.

By the way have you done an animal fun fact on hippos yet? They seem like a strange beast

What do you both think about the Numbuzin nr 3 toner?