tyvm for the quick answer ! i'll make some 1 pound cut shellac at school and apply it over my project with a rag. it should work. Then i'll spray lacquer on top. I must say, having watched all these videos of yours are making me a much better woodworking students. My teachers are amazed of how much i know already ! :)
I really appreciate how precise you are with your words, it's a long video, but there's no dead air or down time, no stuttering and overuse of the word "um" or "uh" and no fiddling with your camera. Basically, ain't no fuckin around. All your video's are well planned, well scripted, edited, and it's obvious you know your shit, or you've at least researched it to the point where you appear to know your shit. And you're easy on the ears. Mad props, could watch/listen to your videos all day without throwing a shoe at the my laptop. Thanks.
The most empirical discussion of finishes that I've ever stumbled upon. Clear, concise, and authoritative, thank you!. The sad reality of today is access to materials. I've done Japanning, French polishing, boiled linseed, raw linseed, tung, and when I worked in a hybrid Nantucket/Shaker style of basketry, used to make my own shellac from flake. Hard to find good wood, and hard to find good raw finishing materials today.. Sad...
This is a very helpful video. I've been searching high and low for a webpage or video that would actually explain the relative advantages and disadvantages of finishing wood with oil versus varnish. Finally, this video does that perfectly!
hi marc, for me, this is most informative video you have made. like alot of other people, im in the category of " being able to make nice wood projects that look good, but adding a finish is where it all goes wrong ". i blame manufacturers for this. they process products that tell you their item is what you need, but upon use, looks utterly horrible. in the end, its a personal thing, as well as experience. you have to find a finish that works for you by trying all of them out lol :)
@RenataDoes I would sand with 220 to knock down the brush strokes and smooth the surface. For a topcoat, you can use any topcoat you like. One of the easiest to apply is a wiping varnish. Minwax makes one that works well. The key is you use a cotton rag to apply it instead of a brush, so no brush strokes and not runs or sags.
a last response from Marc after a raiding night is just awesome ! :) thanks again, merci encore ! I'll do some research on the sealer they make us use before the pre-cat and make some tests ! if i have anything interesting to mention i'll make sure i do ! Guillaume from Québec.
Thanks man.. Yup I'm watching this in 2019 lol.. AND ITS SUPER HELPFUL!!! Aslo, watching the throwback version of the wood whisperer is also pretty cool lol
Whoohoo! finally someone who knows a little about what they are talking about. Thanks. This confirms my notions that I'll be combining pure tung oil and pure gum spirits of turp with spar varnish to get what I need for my purposes. Confirmation can be critical in these days. Cheers.
No doubt this sounds awesome. Thanks again .. I am pissed because missed WIA in Pasadena. Driving back West on Wednesday. Thank you for working so hard on a Sunday evening. Now you are forcing me to join the guild ... :)
THANK YOU I am happy to have found your site. The way your present all this information make so much sense for me I can keep it in my brain. Really interesting videos. you are just great.
@ak99372 Thanks for the kind words. If you can't sand or strip the color out, the only thing I can think of would be to use bleach to neutralize the color. This may or may not work, but at least its worth a shot.
I loved this video. Great work with the subject and amazing job fielding the Q & A. I have been trying to gain more knowledge of finishes and have watched many other videos on this subject and found yours top notch. I will look forward to more great wood working tips from u in the future. Thank you for shareing your knowledge the way you do.
Yes that's correct. The wax will prevent the oil from absorbing. So what you do depends on the severity of the scratch. Worse case scenario, you can scrape and wipe off the wax with mineral spirits. Sand to repair the scratch, then reapply oil and wax.
You might find some variation in the terminology, but in my mind, a stain is a generic term for any coloring agent, be it dye or pigment or a mixture of the two. And while I haven't used shellac to get a colored piano style finish, there's really no reason you couldn't. But you might want to go with a pigment instead of a dye, unless you really do want to see the wood grain.
Spray poly would be fine. If you have some dewaxed shellac, that could work too but try to apply via HVLP if you can. If the stain is sensitive, even rubbing on shellac could pull up the stain.
Shellac is a great choice. If you can, spray it. If you wipe it on the surface, you might end up with lots of streaks due to uneven absorption. So a nice even spray is a good way to seal the surface quickly prior to adding your topcoat of poly. And if you can believe it, I do use water-based finish on MDF. Since I spray, the coats are very light and don't absorb deeply. After the first coat or two, the surface is pretty much sealed and you're just building a finish at that point.
I like how you bring up the reality of varnish finishes appearing "plastic-y" in this video. One thing that's worked for me before when I want a visible film (especially with a high gloss so you can see yourself in the finish when you look in it) but still want some grain to come through clearly, I apply the first coat really lightly so the grain still is apparently coming through, and then I apply the rest normally (i.e. medium-light thickness). Awesome Zelda shirt, too! Best games ever! :)
I'd go with Teak Oil. It's essentially a Danish Oil formulated for outdoor use. I'll be using that on an outdoor table I am hopefully going to complete in the next few weeks.
great advice and that makes sense. thank you... I do not have a way to spray but I will experiment now that I know what the right process is. Thank you! I would suggest a MDF finishing episode, I love the way red and brown stains look on MGF, I am able to create a vintage warehouse look.
I know folks who do and it seems to work well for them. If you're concerned, maybe try pure tung oil. No chemical driers and it's an oil that does actually dry, eventually.
salad bowl finish already contains mineral spirits. We are just adding a little more. I always suggest folks try it out for themselves on a test board. Live with it for a while and see what you think before committing a bunch of boards to it. But it has never let me down and make for a much nicer user experience in the long run.
For the most part, tung oil is an intense finish all on its own, imo. My favorite part about it is the fact that you can apply as many coats as heart desires and will eventually take on a crazy shine. I find that it is really durable and is easily repaired if scuffed or scratched.
depends on what the item is and what you do with it, as well as what you want it to look like. Oils don't offer a whole lot of protection so re-application usually is necessary at some point. But small decorative items may never "need" a touch up.
@Strykercom1 yeah probably not a bad idea to give it a little washcoat of dewaxed shellac. Lightly sand the surface with 320, wipe off the dust, and then start with your topcoats of varnish or wiping varnish.
I think that's a decent way to go. I really like to think of the varnish as something that seals the deep grain. From that point on, you can pretty much maintain the board using more traditional materials and methods. So a butcher block oil or wax would be a good choice.
Honestly I haven't used Tru Oil. But you should be able to replicate just about any oil-based finish using poly, pure oil, or danish oil and the many possible combinations. In my mind, straight danish oil is a nice compromise of that "close to the wood" look with some added protection from varnish. That sounds like it might be a good fit for you.
Any polyurethane will do. And a typical oil/varnish blend would be 1/3 varnish, 1/3 linseed oil, and 1/3 mineral spirits. I would make a similar mixture, but add a little less varnish to the mix.
I haven't used TruOil so I don't know for sure if it's an oil finish or some variation of a varnish. That's what determines how you can approach it. If it's an oil, then you can't simply coat over the poly. If you are unsatisfied with the finish you currently have and you are sure that it can't be recovered, then stripping is probably your best bet so that you can start over.
This can be a complex topic and requires a little understanding of chemistry, but put very briefly, a varnish is typically a resin, with oil and thinner. Once applied the thinner evaporates and the resin/oil cures via oxidation. Lacquers usually consist of a different resin (typically nitrocellulose) in a solvent. Once applied, the finish cures by evaporation.
Yes it is a film. I would definitely thin with mineral spirits and you might just follow the instructions on the can. And the only reason to worry about checking and warping is if the wood is still wet. That would be a concern no matter what finish you use.
A regular stain might just pull up some of the color from the gel stain. And if the gel stain partially sealed the surface, the regular stain might have trouble curing. Have you tried simply using another coat of gel stain? Sometimes these things just require some experimentation since results vary widely depending on so many factors. Once you get the color, I think any varnish would do. Whatever you are comfortable applying.
@rockonku Well the best finish is the one that you can apply properly and effectively. There are many finishes that will work for stairs. I do beileve Arm R Seal would be a decent choice, although most coating for flooring are made with a higher amount of solids, so that they stand up to the constant wear and tear. I yes you can use Arm-R-Seal, but I might also take a look at some specific flooring products.
tung oil takes longer than three days to fully cure. So I would either wait longer, or hit it with some dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat. From there you should have no problem with your pre-cat lacquer. Good luck and hope to see you in the Guild some day!
Great VLOG! Very informative... distracted by the paneling missing under the window on your left the viewers right LOL... Great stuff thank you for the information.
I do like General Finishes Arm R Seal for a dining table. Nice and durable and easy to apply. As far as sheen goes, that's all personal preference. If you like shiny, go gloss. If you like matte, go Satin. Or a nice compromise is semi-gloss. I'm a semi-gloss man myself. Danish oil will give you a much more "natural" looking finish without a high gloss. But it won't be as protective as a varnish such as Arm R Seal.
From what I understand, it's just an oil varnish blend, much like Danish oil. Only it contains some UV inhibitors to make it a little better suited for outdoor use. To clean the items, I'd scrape/sand them. But with 18, you might consider some sort of pressure washing. And there's no reason you can't use teak oil again if you like the way it looks. Perhaps dilute it with mineral spirits for easier application.
Depends on the sealer. Some are just an unnecessary step since the first coat of any film forming finish is effectively a "sealer". When you're dealing with things like cat. finishes, sometimes is really is better to go with their sealer, although using shellac isn't really going to hurt anything. Shellac is more like the workhorse sealer of the shop. But if they sell a sealer for your pre-cat topcoat, you are probably even better off using that. product.
@Strykercom1 you can usually pour off the clear solution and leave the waxy stuff in the bottom. There will still be some wax in it but that's probably good enough.
Something I learned at one of the woodworking shows: At a party, people put a beer bottle on top of horizontal surfaces. They never put the bottle on the side of the table leg. Gravity won't let you. So coat the horizontal surface with varnish, but leave the legs/sides/insides with shellac or oil etc. It makes the legs look great, yet the top surface is durable against the idjit that puts a beer bottle on your table.
I would probably ask around in a few forums to see what folks recommend. Most musical instruments are finished with lacquer or shellac. And keep in mind that oil finishes also have trouble curing over a natural oily wood like Padauk. So I would forget about the oils and consider shellac or lacquer.
@Strykercom1 depends on the species. But in most cases you'll probably be fine if its just a clear coat. but if its a blotch prone wood species, you can do the shellac coat but just leave the pure oil out of the top coat.
Well, that's a big topic for a RU-vid discussion. :) My best tip would to exercise caution. Most veneers are VERY thin so it won't take much to sand through it.
I honestly know nothing of finishes and fiberglass. But I do know anything with raw oil in it needs to absorb into something, otherwise it turns into a sticky mess. So if the fiberglass isn't permeable, it probably isn't a good idea. Also, naturally oily woods don't take oil finishes well either. So in both cases, a mix like that probably isn't what you're looking for. Perhaps a film finish would be a better option.
it's certainly possible if you rub hard enough. Best to test it on a piece of scrap first. But if you need to, you can spray a light coat of rattle can poly and then switch back to Arm R Seal for the subsequent coats.
Well, there aren't many (if any) finishes that will stand up to routine water exposure without eventually requiring maintenance. But I might start by looking at things used in the boating industry, such as Epifanes.
if you are going for a high polish, you aren't going to get there using oils. You would want to do a pore fill and then follow up with a film finish. Lacquer and shellac both polish up nicely.
Either one: pre-mixed or make your own. I like the General Finishes Water-Based dyes myself. Birch is a nice wood, but is notoriously difficult to stain evenly. might not matter though with the dark color you are going for. If you want to email me, we can get a little deeper into the process.
What do you mean by "clear hardener"? Are you talking about something like a polyurethane? If so, yes. The finishes are compatible. Just give the pure tung oil a few days to cure.
I have been refinishing gunstocks for 20 years with Birchwood Casey Tru Oil. Hand rubbing is best. Use very thin coats. I love the way it looks. I also use their Stock Sheen and Gunstock Wax in that order afterwards.
If you give it plenty of cure time, you should be OK. If you're in a rush, give it a week to cure and then give it a light coat of dewaxed shellac. Then proceed with your topcoat.
Today is the first day I've seen you.....and my question is...WHERE HAVE U BEEN ALL MY LIFE :D I have learned more from you in 17 minutes than any other do it yourself internet teacher....If my husband says yes,...will u please be my second husband :D.....can u sense my gratitude :D so many smiley icons I am utilizing...but I actually am smiling! tytyty
I used CPES on antique wooden boats with a syringe on Mahogany and or Teak, solid and plywood. The best trick is to start the topcoat (Helmsman) while the CPES was just tacky and this actually glued the topcoat to the repair work. I finished it with 10 coats of Helmsman Spar Varnish with a light sand in between coats. Spectacular on Grand Banks Trawlers
Completing a mission-style dining table; Greene & Greene Robinson House table. Used quarter-sawn white-oak and have been debating the various options for final finish, in particular for the table-top. Tung-oil is on the list, as are poly coatings. Durability, and stain/moisture resistance obviously top the list, but I don't want to loose the authentic look this table deserves. Thanks!
@Strykercom1 I wouldn't. The shellac can seal the wood preventing the oil from curing properly. If you want to pre-seal with shellac, I would just use varnish and not an oil/varnish blend.
Well I don't mess with paint very often so I'm a little hesitant to say one way or the other. But most film-forming finishes can be coated over one another. But keep in mind once you seal the surface with the enamel, you'll want to stop using the oil part of the mixture. Switch to a thinned varnish alone. The oil relies on absorption to cure and wherever you have paint, the oil will remain sticky.
Learned something great at 31:00 about "witness lines". Couldn't understand why I couldnt get a perfect match to repair a console finish after HOURS of trying. Ended up refinishing the whole top.
If you're going for something fairly natural-looking, I'd say stick with the Danish Oil. 2-3 coats will give the surface a small amount of sheen with some protection. As for the purpleheart, it should look good with the Danish oil as well. But ultimately, purpleheart is going to do what it's going to do, no matter what finish you apply. So be prepared for it to get less bright as it ages. Still beautiful, but not quite what it looks like when newly finished.
If the oil-based finish is fully cured, you should be able to topcoat with a lacquer, but if you are going with a lacquer I'd skip the oil just to keep things simple. Which minwax finish are you specifically referring to?
It doesn't. It's a completely different product made with different thinners and it cures by evaporation as opposed to oxidation. Lots of different varieties of lacquer too. It's worth a quick web search to learn some of the details.
Never used the stuff but it appears to be primarily just a wax product. I don't get the impression there's any varnish in there. Just a liquid wax. I would guess if used alone, it would only provide a very small amount of protection, but probably looks great initially.
If the oil is cured, you are most likely safe to add a coat of varnish/poly. You certainly could have made an oil/varnish blend and used that from the beginning. Or better yet, cut the oil out all together and just go with varnish. In most cases, pre-coating woods with oils prior to applying an oil-based poly does nothing more than add time and work. I always suggest testing on scraps to see if you can tell the difference with and without oil applied first.
Not after you apply wax. The only way to apply more finish to the surface is to completely strip off any wax that might be on the suface. Wax will cause all kinds of problems for pretty much any finish.
That can be a tricky finish to replicate by hand. I would start by using a base color of dye to give a nice dark background, then hit it with General Finishes Java Gel stain. That will get you pretty darn close.
No experience myself. But as long as the surface is fully cured, you can coat it with just about everything. Give it a few weeks just to be certain. If you sand lightly and you get little boogers on your sandpaper, it isn't ready.
Thanks for your video. After watching this I mixed my helmsman poly with linseed oil as the poly cant seem to stand up to the outdoor elements on my previous projects. I will see how the mix does.
Yeah but you might play with the ratio depending on your observations and how much maintenance you want to perform in the future. 1/3 each is a good start.
Waterlox is a very high quality and expensive varnish. Good product. But on a floor I'd be looking to save some money due to the quantity. I might consult a flooring expert.
Marc, I am just starting out in woodworking and have watched all of your videos. A lot of great info in them. My first projects is going to be a combo table saw/router portable work station. I planned on using some hardwoods as trim and drawer/door fronts. My issue is I want the natural look of the wood but also need the protection and smooth sliding for the top. What would you recommend. I will also be making a assembly/out feed table combo also. Again thank you for any assistance's.
