This is a trick the military has been using for a little while that Todd Hodnett and Brian Litz refined into something called Speed Drop. You can calculate your "speed drop" based on your bullet data and dial UP your turret so that between say, 200 and 650 yards, whatever your yardages distance, that's your drop in mils. For example if you see a target at 350 yards, you would HOLD 3.5 MIL. If your target was 510 yards, you would HOLD 5.1 MIL etc.
I forgot about this but yeah. Take your distance and add a decimal point to the very end of it and simply move the decimal point to the left 2 spaces and that will give you the drop in mils and how much you would need to dial up. I've got a really good one for wind calculations using a basic easy to make protractor anemometer and mirage. All you need is a transparent protractor, a 6 inch long piece of clear fishing line and a small ping pong/table tennis ball. Tie the fishing line in the bottom hole and you can either tape or glue the other end to the ball. Hold the protractor upside down to where the fishing line is even with the 90 degree mark and you have yourself a poor man's anemometer. I do the same with mirage at the target area with my scope. It works extremely well. Protractor Windspeeds: 90 degrees 0 MPH 80 degrees 8 MPH 70 degrees 12 MPH 60 Degrees 15 MPH 50 Degrees 18 MPH 40 Degrees 21 MPH 30 Degrees 26 MPH 20 Degrees 33 MPH
Thanks, I'll digest this some. I don't know anything at this point except kentucky windage out to my eyesite limit. Example I do not know "dial up to between" If you get the time and you don't mind answering let me know. Thanks,T
@thomaswall4285 the idea is that you use a ballistics calculator or data on previous engagements to figure our your trajectory to start. From there, you just adjust your zero up until your drop in MILs conveniently matches your range in yards if move the decimal over a couple of spaces. You no longer have a 100 yard zero or what have you. But you have adjusted your zero such that you don't have to calculate your drop within a given range. You just take the yardage, move your decimal to the left two places, and that is your hold over. I hope this helps.
There's 3.4 MOA per MIL. So, yes you can convert and use MOA. Just multiply the range - 2 result by 3.4 MOA, e.g. Range = 800 ~ 8-2 = 6 x 3.4 = 20.4 MOA.
Surprising how well this actually works, cause if I used that trick with my rifle I would only be off by 2.6 MOA at 800 so ~8.5" low at 800. That's not bad.
@@EvWine I personally would add a .25 MOA for every 500 yards, or portion thereof, of range to target. by the way, 2.6 MOA at 800 yards is over 16 inches.
Furthermore, if you want to set your scope up for a good 'speed drop', you can back it off 2 mils at zero and you will be on without any subtracting. ie 3mils = 300yrd etc all the way to about 700-800 yards. With a good reticle you wouldn't even have to dial. just hold over 5mils for 500yrds
This works out when the speed is about 2200 fps, which is pretty typical for 6.5 out at a couple of hundred yards. The distance is d=vt and the drop is gt^2/2 = gd^2/(2v^2), where g is gravity. The angle in radians is then gd/(2v^2), so the drop in radians is proportional to distance. A speed v of about 2200 fps gives a drop of 1/1000 radians for each 100 yards.
Being in Australia and measuring in Metres not yards, this works at a minus 2 from 200-700metres with a 0.4mil difference at 700m. Nice little quick formula.
Over 700m are you saying it’s -2 +0.4mil? So for 800 meters it would be 6.04mil is this correct. Also have you tried this formula with any other rounds?
.308 Win. has worked for me for 50 years. I do enjoy the higher muzzle velocity of the newer ammo for the .308. and the introduction of the 170+ grn ammo is good. Thanks for the video it was informative. Have a good day.
I got a 6.5 Creedmoor that I was about to take to the range just before the Thanksgiving holiday. Most of my scopes use moa adjustments but I do have one Nikko-Stirling with a FFP reticle in mils. I think I will put that on my 2016 Bergara Approach in 6.5 Creedmoor and try this "life hack" at the range. Thanks for publishing the video guys. 😄
Awesome rifle and cartridge, scope will get you started however it gets super confusing with both moa and mils. should just pick one or the other. both are good, I use moa SFP hunting and mils FFP for target.
Mark- Are we idiots??? Also Mark- Don't answer that... LOL This is a pretty cool hack that I'm gonna remember!!! Great video as always keepem coming guys...
Midway sale $399 Rem 700 ADL tactical 6.5 creedmoor. Took it straight out of the box put krg bravo stock, Jewel trigger, 4x27 razor with Arc rings. And it shoots 1/2 MOA with Hornady match 140 grains. OBVIOUSLY THAT'S SITTING DOWN AT A TABLE. But the factory barreled action is pretty darn good
Thanks guys. I just mounted my new Vortex Viper PTS gen 2 MRAD on my 6.5CM. I will definitely be giving this a try. Thank You. This could be the most valuable info I have heard to day.
Darn close to my DOPE...I can't believe I didn't notice that either. Works on meters for me not yards. Its good to 600 then it starts to grow. Super easy to remember that method, so much simpler than a range constant method 😉 👍
So I'm sitting at the Carlsbad Range in NM far from TX, and I realize I have a rifle, ammo, and no data.. Then I remember this podcast.. 440 yds, hold 2 mils .. Ping! 550, hold 3.. ping! Working 140 RDF in a 260 Rem.. Thanx!
Thanks guys. I have a Arken 6x25 optics in Mils. My problem is I don't know what is a mil. Those stadia lines are confusing to me. They are not numbered. I'm talking about the lines looking through the scope. Then there are the ones on the knobs of the scope. I'm new at this scope thing.
I have a Howa 1500 in 6.5 Creedmoor. It came with a Nikko Sterling. It wasn't a great scope, but i could hit targets. I put a Vortex diamond back tactical 6-24x50 mrad on it. It made it a way better rifle. I am definitely going to use this information. Thank you for the insight
This is called "speed drops". You can do it with any cartridge and a kestrel. However I find using the MBPR "maximum point blank range" method better for hunting.
combining both as DMR is deadly as fuck, you are in between -1,6 to -2.0 as "speed drop" with most loadouts for "close range" you use mpbr (witch is like 1,0-1,7 mrad) so its around 300m mark and BDC (as a result for speed drop) for further targets
The problem is that there so few scopes with ballistics reticles and ballistics turrets. The ancients Russian scopes like PU 3.5x22 and PSO-1 are made especially for designated weapons: mosin nagant and SVD accordingly, for specific ammo 7.62x54 and for specific weigh 9.6 gr (148 grains). And once they adjusted properly on the distance of 100 m you don't care after about ANY calculations, you just turn the turrets to needed distance from 100 m to 1300 m and shot. Simplicity is the key to success.
One more consideration for load development. arriving at not only the nod of most accuracy but one that give you the velocity for the grain bullets you shot for simple speed drop.
I'll add, kindve works with 5.56. Zero at one hundred, just dial up one mil per hundred out to 500 and it's close enough to walk it in. Ammo dependant its with in minute of man at least.
He’s using a basic formula of speed drop. You need a 6.5 or 6 creed, speed and a decent bc and between roughly 200-700 yards it works. You can use a kestrel under accuracy first and you can figure out your exact offers and not just minus 2 mills. Good work fellas. Todd hodnett’s boy figured this out with a kestrel a while back. Just look at what speed drop is
Awesome! ...so it works on a 100 yd zero and about a 2700 velocity? You mentioned drag coefficient?? I wonder if you ever made a segment on Applied Ballistic's -Ballistic Coefficient vs Hornady's Drag Coefficient?? What's the take on it? The difference on how you true between Kestrels using 4DOF vs Applied Ballistics stuff?? That would probably be a good debate between Bryan Litz and Dave Emary!!! 🙌😁
Unless your scope has 1/20 mil clicks, you are not even close. To be clear I am talking about target shooting. A game at my local range is hitting penny size target at 300 yards. It is more difficult using 1/10 mil click scope than an 1/8 moa click scope. They both have their places.
At 5k elevation I'm getting less drop than that. This will probably only work for people at lower elevation. Also Temperature changes trajectory fairly significantly.
Makes sense if you think about it… higher elevation less dense air=less drag on the cartridge… holds velocity so less time of flight so less drop due to gravity.
Well, I never thought of it this way but I shoot a 6.5 RPR all the time and 200 = .5 Mil, 300 = 1 Mil, 600 = 4 Mil. That will get me on an 8" plate every time with 140 grain bullets. Haven't got any farther than that yet.
Just checked my Strelok Pro which provides a drop sheet for every 100 yards to 800 yards. No easy thing for my MOA and my Hornady .308 Win 165 gr SST. Oh well, still a neat idea.
I can’t remember which episode I was listening to about the cost per round 6.5 creedmoor vs 308 and I think it was Ryan brought up that it was in the same bracket essentially I just wanna roast him a little because granted mil surplus vs like a hunting round so I can understand a little bit why it’s not apples to apples but in terms of overall cost and availability of ammo I strongly disagree it’s not even close 308 is staying top dog as long as nato is still sending them down range. I mean maybe that’s because I got that e-4 pay and not whatever vortex pays three dudes that like guns. I still love what you guys do very entertaining and I listen to you guys at least twice a day big fan!
You are correct. This trick is great for a rule of thumb, but to be the most accurate you would want to run the ammo you are shooting through a ballistic calculator.
The "life hack" won't work out as cleanly with MOA as it is a different angular measurement. This specific trick is designed around using MILS. If you follow this hack you would simply need to divide the MIL number by .3 to get the MOA value.
I thought this just happened to work for my two 6.5's based on my handloads but yards/200=mils and gets me very close. Ones 18" and the other is 24" shooting 120 gr and 145 gr respectively.
You can do this with a lot of calibers. Applied Ballistics' calls it “speed drop”and their Kestrel will do the math for you, or you can take the time to do it yourself: I wrote an excel sheet that I can drop in my dope, fiddle with some parameters (how accurate do I really need to be?) and it will spit out a number that works for a few hundred yards; fiddle again and I have another number that works for another couple hundred yards (range-2 works for you out to 800, then you might find range-1 works from 800 to 1100 etc). Here's their video on the subject ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DaESPfBd0PI.html
@@VortexNation They are actually very close rounds ballisticly,while the 6.5 does have a slightly higher bc than the 270 the 270 has a FPS advantage that makes up for its lower bc but there is a point at which the high bc 6.5 does go farther,flatter and straighter.
Hey brain Meier you have a good point there. When you look at the ballistics then the 6.5 creedmoor seems very close to the old 270 to me … There is a lot of sales hype… I renamed/ rechristened my 243 to “6mm ‘08 “ haha
Yeah but what about the 6 creedmoor? Not enough down range energy?? I don’t have a 6.5 and love it wish I had a range that goes out to a mile never even shot a 6
