@@johnkayoss5422 Daniel's not pretending to do Hasbara, in fact, his video ends up being harshly critical with Israel and its policies (considered genocide or mass slaughter as a way to describe them). Even in the late beginning he talks about "silly revenge games" that IDF was doing in the West Bank instead of being alert in the Gaza Strip. The most he can do is a sort of accidental Hasbara because misaimed sources (NYT Mass Rape) and because he's explaining the Hasbara side in the video, but that's not the entire point.
@@davidlahozgil that he is pretending to not be Hasbara is the point. He mentions the exodus of Jews from Iraq, without mentioning the well documented fact that it was Zionists bombing the synagogues and other Jewish gathering places that led to this. He has admitted he was aware of this, but made the choice to leave it out. He mentions the closure of European countries to Jewish refugees, without mentioning this was done due specifically to the Zionist lobbies preventing it. He mentions the Balfour declaration without mentioning that Balfour gave this to Lord Rothschild of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in exchange for Rothschild and his Zionist allies crashing the Austro-Hungarian Economy during WWI, creating the mass trauma on the population that was blamed on "the Jews", leading to the rise in power of the ideological twins of the Zionists, who openly allied with the Zionists throughout WWII, With Irgun proposing a formal alliance in Beirut at the height of the Holocaust. He made no effort to distinguish between "Jew" and "Zionist". He deliberately erased the arguments of anti-Zionist Jews along with their existance. He did not mention the Mass Hannibal order on Oct 7 that had already been reported in the Hebrew edition of Ynet, and mocked me for pointing this out to him. He claims that Arab citizens of JSIL (which is no more "Israel" than ISIL was "the caliphate") have equal rights, which is factually false, as the Law of Return and 60+ laws based on it, as well as the Nation-State Law exist. When this was pointed out to him, he falsely claimed the Nation-State Law had been overturned. Rather than respond in a rational manner when his factual inaccuracies that expose his work as Hasbara are pointed out, he reacts with obscenities and "your mama" jokes. It is precisely because he lacks the intellectual integrity to admit that he is Hasbara, of the type known as a "limited hangout", that I feel the need to point out to those whose ignorance he strives to maintain as to what he is. Please feel free to make a rational argument that anything I have said is in any way less than accurate and precise
Almost every day I refresh my podcast app hoping for another What Is Politics episode - today is the day!! I'm so appreciative of all the time and effort you put into this work. I have learned so much. Thank you!
I discovered your channel because of your critique of the DofE and it got me hooked on other videos. Your clarity and capability to explain and articulate very complex issues and terminology is really astonishing. Thank you so much for all the work
"“national” conflicts are often an illusion which mask more substantial class conflicts", here in México people tend to forget pretty quickly about this, it´s even worst when the US is involved
"National" conflicts are a PART of class conflict. A class conflict of the imperial core exploiting the global south. Most leftist liberation movements (including nominally anarchist ones) take on a nationalist character as, first and foremost, a pragmatic galvanizing force to deal with the more immediate oppression of colonialism over the broad, long term international class struggle.
No they are not. Struggle against colonialism always takes precedent over internal or international class struggle. The oppression of imperialism and colonial subjugation is a far more immediate concern. This is why most left wing liberation movements (even nominally anarchist ones) take on a nationalist character.
and then the leaders of the nationalist movement magically always warp their actions toward their own class aims, at the expense of the people that they’re liberating. See Zimbabwe for a very clear example one of a zillion. Or the USSR, or anything anytime anywhere.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69just so you understand, this rationale is functionally the same as openly supporting colonialism and/or imperialism. "We shouldnt support imperfect national liberation movements because they will inevitably turn against the class interests of their own people" is functionally indistinguishable from supporting imperialism because colonized people arent civilized enough for self determination.
Hands down the best, most balanced, and detailed take on the conflict I have heard or seen. You are an incredibly clear thinker and presenter, don’t stop what you’re doing!
@@khubza8999 Hamas is a party of Billionaires who steal UN Aid and care nothing about the refugees their war creates who they say are the UN's problem.
Very informative. I am not a strict materialist, but this channel is probaby the best on the platform at delivering a knowledgable and non-dogmatic materialist perspective. Great work.
I can't believe the amount of work that went into this video!! thanks for making such a clear overview of the conflict, it helps a lot to get a better understanding of what's been going on, without all the propaganda :S looking forward to part two !!
thank you! it’s nice to get recognition for the amount of work this stuff takes - this one was especially brutal to put together! hey, i think you bought a zoom recorder from me this summer! you make good music and videos as well! i guess it takes someone who makes videos to understand how much goes into it!
Hi Daniel, I just subscribed on Patreon. I wanted to say how much I appreciate your dedication to not only justice for working people (vis a vis being a lawyer for tenants and educator here) but also providing a balanced and rigorous interrogation of history. I love how your approach focuses not so much on large groups of people whose values are at odds but on the decisions of specific elites and how they shape the common narratives below. Not just in this video but across your work. It is a vital perspective to have in politics and one that, sadly, I do not see echoed much elsewhere on the internet or in reality. Please keep up the good work!
thank you i really appreciate that and also the support! the next ep on this subject will blow your mind i think, and everyone’s and i’ll get a lot of flak but worth it…
I'm glad you made this. Extremely worth watching. Truly nothing worth objecting to because this was actual unbiased coverage, plus understanding of both sides. Need this to be seen by more.
I was so excited to see What is Politics in my feed this morning. Its such a joy to explore these topics with you. You do such a good job of getting us to think about important things at the core of politics and empower us to make a more thoughtful political impact. Thank you for tackling such difficult issues with such honesty.
I cannot express how much I'm looking forward to the next episode of this! Since Oct 7 and the ensuing war in Gaza, I've been trying my best to do my own independent research into the history - where the narratives agree, disagree and what might be missing from the story. I've been trying to find stuff on land acquisition and have been fascincated by the Arab revolt of '36, but, as I'm sure you've found, there is very little in the way of actual analysis of that period. This video was everything I was looking for and I don't doubt that the next episode will be just as good! Thank you so much for all your hard work!
thanks! most of this will be gone into depth next time, but this time, when i get the bibliography up, i’ll put a few sources on land acquisition, the ones i showed in this episode in the graphics
Even running at 2 hours this is one of the best and shortest video I watched explaining the history of this conflict. It’s not exhaustive but it puts the history into a much better picture, complete with opinions from both sides including from the elites, political groups and general population alike
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 it probably will! It’s because of how different everything about your content is from most bs on this platform that I watch it, and it’s not just full of analysis I could find elsewhere or figure out by myself without taking years of research. As someone who plans to organize in the future it’s really really satisfying to find concise videos like this that change your whole perspective on all the moving pieces in our world bc I really dont wanna spend years of my time not organizing if someone else already put in the work with intent of informing people like me so we dont contribute to these political mistakes in the future. It’s definitely the sort of content I hopefully wont forget and would watch a couple of times again in the future as a reminder of what not to do and not to fully unquestioningly support
As an Israeli I must say this is one of the most well informed and clear videos I have seen over the recent months. I agree that things have never looked worse but we must still strive towards a brighter future 🇮🇱❤🇵🇸
what kinda future, do israelis really believe they can live together and accept palestinians, cuz for me a one state (secular, democratic,equal rights) solution is the best, but both should be ready to give up their fantasy scenarios.
@@oussamarofaik8545 that sounds amazing but it would never work without changing the deep state. Even if both sides were singing kumbaya, nothing will systematically change
I always get so excited when I see you release a new video I also love that you have so many comments and so many likes already Great work is always my friend
This was so damn good. I can’t believe I watched it AFTER this Reddit post I made saying many of these same things. It is so frustrating to see such important developments in this history omitted from the general discourse about it. By far the best introduction to the topic I have seen. One thing I noticed is that you said you had difficulty finding decent books discussing the land purchases of the early Zionist movement. My main source for that had been “Palestine and the Palestinians” by Farsoun and Zacharia. I haven’t read the sources you cite so maybe they’re even better, but it’s another source to add to the list where data is presented and some basics are covered. Studying the Tanzimat also helped me a lot, which I assume will make its way into your later and more focused videos on that piece of the history.
i haven’t read that i will check it out thanks - i have a zillion sources on land purchases, but they’re all written for academics - found very little popular writing besides dowty and some passing mentions in other books. it used to almost never get mentioned, now it seems to be mentoned more but never examined in depth as a source of the conflict. and yes tanzimat is a big part of it
@@cheezburger2000 youtube hates links but it’s from two weeks ago and it’s called “How should we think about nationalism that isn’t Zionism?” - posted to the JewsofConscience subreddit.
Really excited for the next episode, great work as always. I will admit as one of those pro-Palestine college leftists you mentioned I do indeed find the both-sides rhetoric at the beginning of the video challenging as I believe the responsibility in the situation overwhelmingly falls on Israeli elites who have been involved in ethnic cleansing and discrimination from the beginning and increasingly so now. That being said I understand that as part of how you chose to present this series and I’m interested to see where you go with the rest of the series. However a different and more encompassing analysis of Israel/Palestine is sorely needed in today’s left and I am thankful you are doing that. As an aforementioned college leftist I am irked by my local pro-Palestine leftists and organizations, many of whom get their perspectives almost entirely from Hamas and aligned channels. They seem unwilling to consider any possibility of wrongdoing by Hamas on October 7th and either say it never happened (“most civilians were actually killed by Israel”) or if it did its their fault (“settlers ≠ civilians”). While I absolutely abhor the Israeli state and as an anarchist think it should be destroyed, a leftist analysis that only takes the Palestinian perspective into account to me feels like poor solidarity. At this point, the biggest group of Israeli Jews are from non-European countries despite simplistic characterizations of Israelis as Europeans with dual citizenship (in fact, I’ve heard only about 10% of Israelis have dual citizenship), and as you mentioned many Jews came to Israel fleeing antisemitic persecution. Does that mean Israel has a right to exist as an ethnostate and carry out ethnic cleansing? Absolutely not. However, it does mean that leftist proposals for justice must go beyond blindly supporting Palestinian resistance organizations like Hamas. Its simply untenable for leftist organizations to say that the needs of 7 million Jews living in Israel are either beyond our concern since they are privileged settlers or openly say they should pack up and leave. Any proposed solution must clearly state that the needs and rights of all residents between the river and the sea will be respected and uphold the Palestinian right of return. Furthermore, many of those who most ardently support Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups either won’t stand in solidarity with those oppressed by Hamas’s allies (mainly Iranians and Syrians) or outright tar them as western-backed traitors. Syria’s Assad regime has actually killed many Palestinian refugees, but to many Hamas supporters the Assad regime is unquestionable as a funder of Hamas. If our solidarity with Palestine means that we must ignore or silence the voices of all others whose suffering is inconvenient to Hamas, then we’re clearly doing solidarity wrong. Anyways, mostly I’m venting because all these narratives are things I’ve seen across the internet since October 7th. I believe we desperately need strong non-campist narratives which support Palestinian liberation. And I thank you for continuing to create nuanced media that looks beyond nationalist rhetoric!
this is super interesting - my friend who’s super involved in pro-palestine activism in europe tells me that most of the activists have zero awareness of any of the history whatsoever, and have all these laughably misinformed ideas of how we got here, if they even know at all - which is one reason why I did the ABC’s instead of jumping straight into the more interesting story about how the conflict started, and who was responsible for it. I didn’t realize people were just swallowing hamas pronouncements whole, which is almost hilarious, but i realize one should never underestimate the childishness and naitivité of students… the idea that educated students would think it makes sense to deport the 3rd and 4th and 5th generation of israelis is so insane to me - like where does that end? should the berbers (who are like 40-60% of the maghreb countries - no one even knows because the government falsely counts them as “arabs” even if you have whole regions where arabic is a 2nd language, and villages where no one even speaks arabic) or the south saharans seek to deport the arabs back to saudi arabia? total insanity. all those students themselves would end up back in england or wherever they came from before taking over the USA… even if it was WWII going on i would still want to explain the point of view of the germans because don’t we need to know what we’re dealing with? but in the case of israel it’s so much more interesting - germany, south africa etc, didn’t have very coherent moral justifications for what they were doing - just “we’re better, we came here first, we brought the blacks here” or whatever thin excuses. in israel you have a very compelling narrative, an also even if you were to assume the early zionists were all 100% factory made colonialists, you have the WWII refugees, and all the arab world refugees, who were 75% of country by the 60s all together, plus basically anyone who went to school since 1948 (i.e. 100% of the current population) who learned nothing about colonial attitudes and justifications, and learned that they gained the country by pure immigration and then by beating off a genocidal war in 1948 - you can’t just ignore that, it’s a huge factor in why this keeps going on, and why the current generation have turned into total racist genocidal maniacs, while thinking they aren’t. and when we look at what happened on the arab side in 1880s-1948 it really explodes the whole nationalist narrative on that side as well. i wish i could have made these episodes all at once, because it sucks to have people wait another 5 months before they understand where i’m going with this… maybe i’ll talk about it more in the QnA episode i’ll be putting out soon. this whole thing also illustrates what recipe for disaster states are…
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 I guess I’ll clarify what I’m saying about student activists, I’m just pointing out the worst of them (who happen to be more involved in a lot of the organizations organizing protests etc)… I see a lot of these narratives online, and the people I know in pro-Palestine student activism are either the sort I’m talking about or generally pro-Palestine but without a deeper ideology/perspective. I see no one challenging the more harmful narratives from the left. It seems to be either hardliners or people who stick to current news + the basics without a deeper analysis
And no one seems to ever think the deportation thing through, its more lots of one-off online statements that Israelis should just pack up and leave which makes no sense. People who go more in-depth often point to Algeria as a precedent of what should happen, but clearly there are far more Israeli Jews than French settlers + Jews in Algeria at that time and it’d be a horrible catastrophe if there were millions of Jewish refugees from Israel. But few on the left seem interested in considering an Israeli Jewish perspective at all since they’re painted as privileged settlers who overwhelmingly hate Palestinians (and unfortunately recent polls do show how widespread hateful thinking is in Israel as you go into)
@@paco.effective.dreamer yeah, doing a “there are two narratives” video like this is a bit rough when the majority in israel now have lost their minds and just sound like fascists - like no one wants to hear the fascist narrative of WWII … but i think it’s important for pro palestine activists to understand the israeli perspective, if only just to be more effective at what they’re doing, but also because i think it makes justice more likely, and also because things aren’t caricatures, there’s a lot to understand about any situation in life when you want to go in and change something, you need to know what you’re dealing with, for moral reasons and for basic competence. for the deportation thing - the idea that people don’t belong somewhere is just wrong to me. people belong wherever they are. if you’re occupying a stolen house, then sure, be forced out of the house and have the house given back to the rightful owner, but to leave a country entirely is just nonsense. especially in israel where so few peopel have any idea that they stole anything. maybe the exception is the settlers, who moved there on purpose in order to take land away from the arabs, but even they can leave on their own if they don’t like living in a democracy. i don’t know enough about algeria, but suspect deportation wasn’t a good thing there either. one algerian guy on here was sayingthat was a mistake.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 to clarify, my understanding from reading about Algeria was that it was less a literal policy of deportation than increasing hostility and violence that led to most people leaving (and the French colonists could have more secure and comfortable lives back in France). That also involved a policy which only gave citizenship rights to Muslims, so Jews also left en masse (+ hostility they faced since they were given a higher class status by the French). But yeah I’d always advocate for a just solution that doesn’t entrench ethnic or nationalist divisions if at all possible
This was harder for me to watch as someone with adhd and on the spectrum combined with the length of this video. I’m gonna have to listen to this in chunks, but the work you’ve done here is so important and a light for those who are intellectually and morally curious. Expect my continuous financial support long term.
Am so glad I got your video in my recommendation While I don't agree with all points and views you share you gave a refreshing middle ground unbiased view of the conflict I instantly subscribed
everyone is biased, but i do think that if you want to fix something, it’s important to understand what motivates people on both sides, and why they think and act the way they do
I'm so happy you dropped another video, I can tell from the quality of your videos that they must take a lot of effort and I was a bit worried for your health. Thank you for making another one on this issue, your well researched but accessible explanations are very appreciated. Sending love from Nigeria.
thank you! they do, and your concern and good wishes are much appreciated. very cool that I have some viewers in nigeria. currently hard at work on the next one on this same subject…
Mostly commenting for thr algorithm and cuz everything else's been said in some other comment here, but thank you for the extraordinary work and the extraordinary production that came out of it
yup, started it on oct 7th after i was 2/3 of the way through a video on intersectionality, thinking it would be an EZ episode to make and instead it took me 4.5 months and it’s only the 1st part of 3…!
On the YT channel: The Balfour Project watch Dr Ralph Wilde’s webinar on how Britain broke international law to prevent Palestinian Independence. All the other neighboring countries were given independence after the defeat of the Ottoman Turks after WW1. The British plan for Palestine was to give the land to Russian and European Zionist Jews with preferential immigration policies (Jews only) and forced land exchange to favor the Zionist Jews over the Palestinians. We would not have anything like all the endless wars in the Middle East nor the genocide in Gaza without this interference by Great Britain.
i didnt yet listen to this one, nor did i finish listening to all the podcast episodes yet, but i just wanted to thank you for what you are doing.. been looking through the bibliographies of some of your episodes and i didn’t even realise such a wealth of information was available to us. i feel like a child on Christmas day. ive shared this podcast with any friend i thought would be interested and plan on continuing to do so. thank you! all of this is still blowing my mind.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 As someone who collects action figures and comic books, I appreciate your taste. Also wanted to say thank you because I started going to protests in my community and getting involved with non-profits from watching your videos. I tell all my friends and family who will listen about your early human history and how it relates to modern hierarchies stuff, I find it so fascinating. You’re making a real difference with this education!
@@Noobslayar to find out that someone started getting involved with politics and activism because of my show is the best possible think i could hear! thank you so much!
Amongst all the propaganda and misinformation, I must say that this video is a breath of fresh air. Even if there are points of yours that I'm not entirely sure about (though I'm currently in the process of reading more about things since all of this is so new to me), I greatly appreciate that you've taken the time to acknowledge the humanity of both the Israelis and the Palestinians. So many people think that acknowledging the humanity of one group means that you're denying the humanity of the other, but you've made it very clear that that's not at all how we should look at this case, which is something I wish more people took time to do. Wishing you well. This video is A LOT of info in just 2 hours but it gives me a lot to think about and read over, so I appreciate how much effort and care you put into it!
hi thanks - i think the next video on this will be the really enlightening one, but thought that first, people need to understand what’s in the minds of both israelis and palestinians and have some of the basic events in their minds before they can process how the conflict actually started
this one took me 4.5 month of hell to do, and it’s only the first part of three, so i kind of never want to do another historical conflict video ever, but i very much appreciate the sentiment, and hopefully will do more - it’s interesting to compare this to south africa, which I will do next time
@@khosrowanushirwan7591 that’s complicated to answer because there are many different definitions of that word, but i believe that forms of dominance of some people over other should be eliminated, so landlord tenant, owner employee etc should not exist, but i also think markets are ok so long as they don’t create classes of owners and people dependent on the owned property. property should be owned by those who depend on it. i’ll talk more about it in future episode. it’s sort of a 19th century idea of socialism before bolshevism and european social democracy took over the meaning of socialism. and btw, when i said i don’t want to cover more conflict, i will still be covering this conflict - the episode i’m working on now goes into depth about the origins of the conflict.
I love your channel, I will pay you money as soon as I have some to spare! you deserve to be paid for this incredible work, these videos should be airing on public tv
It's taken me many months to be emotionally ready to watch this batch of videos; oddly enough, considering I don't have any direct personal stake in either side of the conflict (by which I mean, no loved ones endangered or otherwise personally affected by it). I follow a lot of leftist writers, podcasters, pundits, and video creators, and this channel is one of my absolute favorites, because you provide perspectives I find educational, and information I just don't hear anywhere else. Your videos on the prelude to the Russian Revolution touched on aspects of that story I'd never heard mentioned anywhere else. This video, also, highlight aspects of the history of Palestine and Israel I've never come across in all the educational leftist material I've engaged with before. Furthermore, like all the best educators, you prompted me to rethink some of my initial assumptions. As someone who's dedicated to supporting oppressed peoples everywhere, I take a heavily pro-Palestinian position, though not pro-Hamas, I hasten to add. However, it seems that despite my best efforts not to get suckered by nationalist mythmaking, I have bought into several pieces of the Palestinian Nationalist story without realizing over the years. I shall have to come back to this video sometime, probably more than once, to help myself unlearn those bits of the mythology and get myself to internalize a more accurate understanding of the history. Go figure, when we're looking at real history, even in situations where there are incredibly clear-cut oppressor groups and oppressed groups, you still can't boil things down to a simplistic "good guys versus bad guys" narrative. Real life is always more messy and complex than that, it turns out. Thank you for all the educational work you do. These videos are so helpful.
Seeing a new video from this channel is always such a good surprise! This whole podcast really helped me see through the narrow view of current and local politics and understand politics at a more fundamental level, which has helped me in all sorts of surprising ways. If I ever have the money to give support to creators, you're at the top of my list.
It's *_Extremely Simple_* . The solution is however "complex" because no one will tackle "Voldemort" head on. 1) Land given away from an organization that never had the right to give it away. 2) UN conventions on annexation of land during war ignored, no repercussions for ethnic cleansing. 3) Ongoing occupation, extra-judicial killings and imprisonments and dejure+defacto apartheid. I'm not even addressing the current crimes against humanity which would have absolutely isolated and sanctioned any other country but "Voldemort". (Even the mention of certain buzzwords gets some us deleted/shadow banned)
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Sorry, it wasn't a dig at your content. Just a statement of facts for people that have bought into the narrative that this is "complex". You do great work. I've subbed. Cheers.
@@Emanon... For solutions to be "complex" doesn't mean harm has mutually been done to both sides. The end of slavery was complex, the end of Apartheid was too (heck, we are still dealing with the circumstances of both) even the de-nazzification of Germany was complex. even if you think Israel is literally star wars Empire level of evil (which I would dissagree but it doesn't matter) at the end of the day most of the Israeli people are just common people and therefore the solution is complex because it has to be one the ensure the least harm to both palestinians and israelis .
@@kupeart3746 Common people can be misinformed or even willfully approve of the horror their country is committing, as long as they're beneficiaries or afraid to lose everything if they speak up. History has shown this over and over again. Here's an apt analogy, since you brought it up yourself: The Empire destroyed Alderaan because it supported the rebels - and to punish the people collectively. Rebels, who in all accounts would be considered terrorists by the Empire. What sequence of events does that remind you of? With regards to complexity, it means that to achieve true peace, the road is long and hard. But it starts with a measure of justice for the harm that has been done. Can we at least agree that Palestinians have suffered far greater, and for far longer, than Israelis? And that they also deserve a right to exist? Yes? Now go tell that to the Israeli government and the majority of Israelis that are consenting to the horror we are witnessing right now.
I am a Muslim ,and i think that when religon and nationalism meet it becomes very dangerous and i can see that on both sides ..I am against hamas horrific attack on inoccent israeli but i am also against the occopation and the killing and abuse of the inoccent Palestinians ..I think its a never ending cycle good ppl from both side can stand up and just end this cycle ..both sides need leaders that would work for peace and both sides need to abandon hate and radicaliztion ..i m all for two state solution or one state solution and equal rights for all (maybe a secular state instead of a religious state )Both parties deserve peace security and a good future.
What kind of Muslim would say that lsraeI is innocent when they've attacked our brothers and sisters in the past before October? What kind of Muslim says they would favor a secular state over a religious one? You are clearly misguided and you are saying everything that a liberal would.
I agree with the one state model and agree with it being a secular state. Israel’s current model would work best, but they’d have to bring a separate Sharia court in for Muslims with such a large population (like how they did with the Rabbinate) but I think that has a chance to get messy. You’re one of the few Muslims that acknowledge what Hamas did was horrific and evil tbh. I mostly see the entire thing dismissed or praised by Muslims. I hope for a one state solution that Palestinians have a large say in forming and for reparations to all those that have suffered from this violence
@@emmettdonkeydoodle6230 yes u r right israel current Model is good only they have to give the Palestinian's same rights and citizenship as Israeli maybe they can rename the country as palestine Israel so both parties are happy 😊...The sharia law is only implemented when 99 percent ppl all Muslims otherwise Muslims are highly incouraged in islam to respect and obey the law of the land (if they have full religious and human rights in that land )..I and my family think that these militant groups should not stay in power coz it's a threat to democracy and usually they are dictators and they have nothing good to offer ...There should be judicial and political system in a country but again it's only possible when a country is free only then they can make their judicial and political system .
there is also the faction of "Commenders for the security of Israel" that argue for a formation of a palestinian state for security reason rather than a peace treaty. They argue that withdrawing from the settlements and recognizing Palestine as a state even if its without any treaty will eventually improve Israeli security because its much easier to secure borders than to secure occupied territories. They also say that for peace to be possible, there first need to be an entity to sign peace with, and not the other way around. Also, as an Israeli with a pro Israel leaning world view, even though Im not aligned to everything you said in this video, I thank you for doing the research and bringing an historically informed video on this subject, it is rare to find actually good faith speakers either on the Israeli side nor in the Palestinian one.
the commanders for the security of israel never explain exactly what their 2 states look like - that’s been the whole issue this whole time - for a long time there was agreement on 2 states, but the dispute was what they will consist of, so it’s a big omission. and thank you - you probably know everything in this episode already, the next one is when you’ll see something very different to what we hear on either side
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Thats pretty much middle school history class, but still, our version is pretty basic and white washed and the arabs/regional history are not taught at all when its not in relation to historical wars. As for the commanders, I think they go for the camp David with a little bit of land swaps approach (something like the Geneva imitative) . Before the war I used to be a fan of the federal one state (without gaza) but I think 1 state will be a real mess unfortunately (in a dream scenario I would prefer it)
I do disagree with the narrative. The conflict is not two sided. I am Palestinian and lived under the apartheid ocupation and experienced the injustice and brutally of it. Further more my family experience . For example my father village near the city of lid was demolished and the inhabitants of it either forced to flee or died like many villages in western Palestine Just to make room for colonizers. So that narrative of both sides are equally guilty is not true, while it is true that some Palestinian committed crimes that is only a drop in the bucket. I also want to note the the rape allegation most likely is completely fabricated as noted by isreali press and the fact that isreal couldn't produce evidence. And if you want to view real allegation of rape look at the UN and major human rights organizations reports of rape and torture in isreal prisons. If you want to speak from a humanity perspective please try to see Palestinian as humans first, look at the facts not omitted.
maybe i didn’t explain clearly enough, but i’m not at all saying both sides are equal, or equally guilty. i’m saying both sides have a version of history which mix truth and myths, that justifies their cause and denigrates the cause of the other one, and i’m explaining these versions while presenting the basic uncontested events of the conflict, leaving out the more contentious or controversial events that would surprise people. Before challenging anyone’s view, I’m presenting the view of both sides. next time is when i will go over what actually happened, and then we will see where the guilt and responsibility lie for this. some of it will be just as you are saying above, and some of it will probably surprise you. i would have preferred to do it all at once, and this was my initial plan, but it was just too long, so i’m doing it this way. for the rape, it seems that the mass systematic rape was fake, but from what i saw there were still some real ones, which is to be expected - just as it’s to be expected from the israelis, ive seen the accusations of prisoner abuse etc, i posted some of it in the video, but i found out about the faked NYT article after i posted it. one thing i should have mentioned was the civilian massacres in 1948 by the hagannah forces, deir yassin, etc, because it’s not contentious but i will discuss it next time
Thank you, so much for all this information. You’ve caused me to question and resolve some of my own misunderstandings! Easily one of the best RU-vid channels out here.
Phew! This was a challenging one to get through just because of the subject matter, but absolutely worth it. I am blown away by your level of detail here, no wonder it took so long and still has more story left to tell! Super looking forward to Part 2, your deconstruction of power dynamics is the reason I love your stuff and is what has inspired me to action in my local community. Side note, I didn't realize you had a monthly Ko-Fi, I'll be switching from Patreon to monthly contributions!
thanks so much - i need to advertize better about the monthly option, cause doing videos like this that take 4 months totally bankrupts me each time! glad you appreciated it and if it motivates you to be active that’s the most amazing thing i can hear about what im doing! thank you!
Even though I’m not entirely convinced by the both-sidesism of the approach thus far, I have to recognize the incredible amount of work you’ve done on this subject. I’m interested to see where you go with this….
I just can't wrap my head around punishing the entirety of Palestinian population over who they voted.. Should not this same judgement be cast to those here in America? Who voted for Bush Sr? Even if it was your parents who voted for him? How come no one ever says that is okay to apply to ANY other set of human beings... Just Palestinians. The Ukrainians get taught how to make molotovs, but Palestinians? They should be happy to just be alive..
somehow missed this comment 5 months ago! it’s kind of worse than that even - only 45% of palestinians voted for hamas in 2006. half that vote was an anti corruption vote. they had 18% support left in gaza on october 6th 2023… half of the population of gaza were toddlers when hamas was elected. but in the israeli imagination, 100% of palestinians either support hamas and the objectives of hamas and are responsible for oct 7 on some level. it’s insane.
holy fuck this is amazing. i’m doing TONS of research on this, and i really appreciate resources like this. thank you for doing this. it’s taken me 9 months to read a handful of books and to feel like i can explain it and write about it, so i can imagine how much work you put in here.
this is genuinally the best video i've seen about this, coming from a jew. you've put all what i've wanted to say into words. the way i've saw the other side is through reframing words, exactly what you said. praying for peace one day. thank you for really understanding and for all your research, its so so refreshing
I'll admit this was a difficult watch. I appreciate that you're trying to present a simplified account of events so people cam better grasp the overall history, but it's akin to listening to liberal media narratives of the history - completely whitewashing the real material and class dynamics at play. I get that you're saving that for the next video, but personally I didn’t feel like this approach was a good one given that we're in the middle of a propaganda war (on top of the actual onslaught in Gaza). Also, I'm a little surprised that you personally wouldn't call what's happening a genocide. This is as textbook as it gets.
@@harrypmayYou're an idiot. Don't fucking both sides a conflict in which the majority of the deaths are on one side. The definition of genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." Even the whitewashed facts of this video are evidence of genocide based on the Israeli governments actions and their stated objectives (to drive Palestinian out of Gaza and the west bank). Which would be, in addition to "the deliberate killing of a large number of people," be a destruction of "a nation or group" specifically the Palestinian nation and thus a literal dictionary definition genocide.
Thank you. Using archaeology and anthropology to precisely reveal the history of Arabs and Jews and Palestine is very helpful. I think I understand the main argument you make about two competing nationalism producing conflict and violence. FIRST POINT Nationalism is poison. Still, the context of nation states and the assumptions about them and international cooperation means that talking about nations and nationality must go on. Indigenous people and others are bound by the nation state framework and the incumbent assumptions about property, especially when sorting out legalities and rights. National liberation struggles informed by class analysis are superior and better equipped. I think in the context of colonial history and its outcomes as they manifest today, and the facts of monopoly capitalism reaching to grab, plunder and subjugate abroad, must be acknowledged. So, I do believe that national liberation struggles for liberation from direct occupation and the strangleholds of transnational corporations and the local ruling class that enables and profits by them must be supported. Their shackles have to be lifted before class struggle can advance further. I think there are historical cases of national liberation struggle and class war happening simultaneously and succeeding....SECOND POINT Perhaps you should review what happened in Israel on Oct. 7. Evidence is emerging to debunk the claim of systematic rape by Hamas. (Though rape is often systematic weaponry in war arsenals, and incidences of rape in the course of armed battle.) See Aaron Mate's articles and today's videos by Democracy Now!. Also, evidence is emerging suggesting that the panicking Israeli military fired on everybody, such as a public statement by an Israeli general and clips of Israeli military videos and analysis of published photos of the aftermath (Max Blumenthal's articles). Then there is the much understated reality that there is a Palestinian armed resistance front of 12 factions, with Hamas being the biggest and acting as the representative. Furthermore, the main events of that day are the successful attacks and takeovers of at least 5 Israeli military installations, though the media and L and R commentators seem to refer to the attack on the Nova dance party and Kibutzim as the main and only event. We have yet to know what exactly happened that day, though resistence fights certainly attacked some people and kidnapped others there (took hostages might not be the most precise term). About the argument that Hamas is using the Palestinian people (allowing the genocide to happen) to carry out its war is questionable. Israeli forces and settlers have been regularly assaulting the Palestinian residents in Gaza and the West Bank all the time for decades. That deplorable conditions and systematic violence would foster violent responses after engaging in largely non-violent resistance, including acts of terrorism, is credible. Secondly, could Israel's response of launching genocidal assaults be predicted? Hard to say--though their efforts to push away Palestinians are clearly recognized. Third, it would be difficult to disengage from a long-planned commitment once started. Videos sent from the Palestinian fighters also show where and how they are fighting, and they demonstrate that the fighting is generally not in populated areas and that it is only directly against the Israeli army. Fifth, the strategy of hoping to trade prisoners for hostages is supportable, and who could guess how far Israel would let things go without trying to get back more hostages? Well, that's a lot for now. Thanks again.
i realize there’s a lot of fake stories out there on both sides, and i’m not above falling for them - but did you see the gopro footage from the hamas fighters? i generally never watch videos of people getting killed, but i forced myself before making this, and they’re shooting up homes on kibbutzes and throwing grenades inside of civilian bomb shelters, shooting into toilet stalls at the rave, shooting at civilian cars … the idea that they were mostly fighting in unpopulated areas just isn’t true, they were trying to kill civilians 100%. and they definitely took over military installations and there was a lot of fighting there, which the media tends to ignore because it’s such a total shame to israel that rando home made commandos could literally take control of part of the country for several days. for the rape stuff, i realize that the big NYT story is fake, but from what i could tell there were still some credible stories of rape and torture, mutilation, burning people to death even if it wasn’t systematic. i would be really surprised if that didn’t happen, that’s what angry people with guns do everywhere. for the nationalism stuff, i think it will become very clear next time why i went with this angle. i really wish i could have made this all into one episode, but there was just no way
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 I know the guerrilla fighters committed atrocities on Oct 7, but as to their precise identity as Hamas, the extent and the number of victims they are responsible for, that is questioned. I hadn't seen /heard of those images. I have just watched a few presented by the Grayzone and Intifada which show the guerrillas in tunnels awaiting Israeli soldiers to appear at the entries or stepping out to launch at vehicles and individuals. Allegedly, there are videos being circulated which are tagged as Hamas fighting but which may be old images of other people fighting or Israeli forces. Could be H fighters are lashing out especially given the emotionality in responding to atrocities of the other side. Circle of violence. I do not condone Hamas or support it. I just understand the circumstances of the Palestinians and see some justification for resistance, even armed resistance. Wrongdoings bound to happen. This was found by the Truth and Reconciliation investigation into the Korean war, where N. Korean fighters were found to be responsible for some violations. Also, we could note wrongdoings committed by the anti-fascist resisters of WW2. In assessing, must consider the power imbalance, like the regular armies, more powerful states, situation of subjugation of the dominant over the dominated....
@@barbarawaldern1794 the stuff i saw is clearly hamas go pro videos, there’s teams, they’re speaking to eachother about how to proceed, and they’re in residential neighbouhoods, and throwing grenades into peoples’ home bomb shelters. I have no reason to doubt any of that is real sure you can consider the power imbalance and sympathize with lashing out, and also understand their ignorance of who they’re dealing with, but murdering civilians is just evil. they could have taken over the military installations and fought soldiers like they did without shooting up kibbutzes. even if all you care about is palestine they’re not doing themselves any favours that way. i don’t think you should judge the oppressed groups the same way you do the dominant groups, but sometimes the oppressed groups take over, and their behaviour in revolt is a good indicator what they’ll be like in power.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Anyway, I think the dichotomy of this fanatical nationalist/ religious entity v another is an idealization where context and relations between the "sides" are not considered and a false construction when the overall context is ignored. Like so many others, you are fixated on those incidents on Oct. 7 at the Kibutzim and Nova dance party. As many knowledgeable voices including Palestinians, Oct. 7 did not happen in a vacuum. Let's say some people from another town move into yours. They start occupying some houses. They are bullies. They start pushing people out and taking their property, denying them access to services and basic rights. This happens over a few years. A group of them storm your house one day and assault your family/ housemates, killing a couple. They start taking or destroying your stuff, too. So, you fight back, and kill an invader. You're not used to doing that and you fight dirty. How is that situation generally seen? The occupants being invaded are generally seen as defending themselves. Same re a someone who's been abused by her/his domestic partner for a long time; one day she snaps, or even she plots to kill her adversary--The case is seen as self-defense and the victim is not convicted. We have the situation of a population being subjugated and tormented, deprived, expropriated, policed ridiculously every day--of course, there are reactions, outbursts and some are violent, despite the efforts to protest peacefully, rally international support and so on. The are the occupied victims and seen as defending themselves. That is why law recognizes armed resistance. Do not fall into criminalizing dissenters and stereotyping them as terrorists. That is what all the fascists and imperialists are saying and it is dangerous propaganda. The mass responses around the world are extremely important for this reason. One does not have to support everything that resisters do and say to generally support resistance against occupation, discrimination and genocide.
@@barbarawaldern1794 you are wasting so much space writing all of this irrelevant stuff … go back to the beginning of the video where i explain that what i’m doing in this episode is explaining what either side thinks so that we can understand their motivations and behaviour, not so that i can say both sides are equal. im sorry getting fed up with this stuff, you guys seem like you lack basic reading comprehension, and you’re not even reading, it;s a video..
Always a blessing when you upload... What do you think of Ilan Pappé? I think from what i have seen, he seems to be very accurate, honest and not as biased (leninism) and polarizing as Norm Finkelstein for example.
i actually prefer finkelstein! he’s hilarious! i haven’t read pappé for a long time, and he’s interesting, but i got turned off once when i saw him speak because he was saying that as a historian he should be an active first and the cause is more important than the truth … like not as in he should make stuff up, but i wasnt impressed with that
I appreciate his analysis of the decades long conflict but he still is very reactionary and a rapid transphobe in his other positions. Bolstering him too much risks alienating other allies imo
@@johnwright7916 i don’t think someone needs to have the right opinions on every issue to have valuable insights into the issue where they’re an expert - but also i’m not bolstering him here, i’m giving him as an example of how someone with the pro palestine POV/narrative interprets oct 7 vs the other writer i showed with the israel POV
@johnwright7916 ahh you are referring to finkelstein, thought you meant Pappé. Pappe is incredible imo he literally studied his stuff in the archives in Israel, he was on the sources. "The ethnic cleansing of the people of palestine "and the "10 myths about Israel " are just two of his great books! I came across him in October, he was on the majority report with Sam seder. Highly recommended to watch that.
I’m now just more than the half of the video. I would comment to say it shows you worked a lot for it. It helps me to understand the POV of the other side, and like always, what you explain is perfectly clear and precise. We need more content creators like you :)
The one thing I hate(?) about your channel is that you've made me extremely skeptical about absolutely everything that I read or listen to, including your content! Your series of videos analysing Graeber's book got me to reflect a lot about how no intellectual/scholar, even the ones you really admire, can be 100% trusted. I never liked Graeber as an anarchist; rather, he always came off to me as something between a radlib and socdem - he literally joined the UK's Labour Party a couple of years before his death despite eventually being expelled for being too much of a Corbynite. Despite all this, I've really fallen in love with anthropology because of Graeber, but your videos have been extremely useful in putting me on the right path. Also, reading the comments from haters on your videos is one of my favourite past times 😂.
haha thanks, yeah it’s hard being so skeptical - especially with something like this, every sentence i say i have to look it up, and then it still miss a few
Epic! In the truest sense of the word. A labor of love. The analysis makes it possible to believe the conflict is resolvable, not intractable. It video helps us to understand why, specifically, people believe it is unsolvable and why that is false.
thanks - im not even sure why you feel that way at this point given that i didn’t even get to the stuff about who started it, and what the compromises are that come out of that yet!
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 No doubt, sounds like the next episode will be really revealing in those senses. Maybe what I am reacting to is the way you laid out *what is behind* the extreme polarized thinking represented by Netanyahu and his lunatic cabinet on one side & extremist Hamas on the other side. in the sense, the video serves to demystify the conflict and the hideous point to which it has sunk. Somehow identifying that background gives me hope that it can be overcome, that it is not some ancient, mysterious, unsolvable riddle.
A hard watch tbh, as someone who didn't feel at all like listening to an Israeli side, hearing 'both sides' again and again hurt my ears haha. Specially frustrating when knowing that the second part intends to deconstruct(?) this sides in the first place. I sympathize with the narrative of zionism as a settler colonial project from the get go. But yhea, looking at the narrative I heard, in retrospective i can see that earlier period when an actual "conflict" existed being glossed over, and the interests of the palestinian nationalist side being obscured or just taken for granted. I'm confused by the aside on the word genocide. I think a political conception of genocide should prioritize identifying it and acting on it way before it's obvious than the majority of a population is definitely going to die or be displaced. And afaik no group has literally wanted nor attempted to have every single drop of blood of a given ethnicity to go cold. This is not to say that the legal definition as it is can't be dumb, as an example some argue Gringoland's blockades fit the bill and while i agree those are ridiculously inhuman I agree the word starts to be stretched into meaninglessness. Looking forward for next vid. I wonder where it will eventually land, i don't think people are that stupid nor braiwashed, from palestinians siding with (or tacitly consenting to) nationalism, to zionist doing the same for their colonial state. Those narratives need at least a bit of truth, to somewhat align to the interests of the people, in order to be effective. I mean, #1 trick on the settler book is that the people living in stolen land won't have their interests ever aligning with something like land back or right to return, they're in to the neck. I'm not expecting a (long) response or anything, dear reader may have a better thing to do with their time than educating a non politically active armchair. Have a good day.
i wanted to do it all in one episode, present the narratives, the ABCs and then show what actually happened - but as you can see this one ended up being 2h15m and took me five months to do, and almost bankrupted me, and i dont get paid until it’s released so i had to do it this way or else end up on the street! for genocide, i think these terms need to be precise and be close to popular understanding or else it ends up being hyperinflated cancel kid type rhetoric that no one takes seriously. this is very clearly a mass murder, mass slaughter, evil, senseless, intent of ethnic cleansing, killing of civilians on an enormous scale - but i don’t see that they’re trying to exterminate the population as a whole. i wouldn’t put it past them morally, but i don’t think that’s what they’re doing at the moment… it doesn’t need to be genocide for it to be a an inexcusible mass atrocity people should mobilize to stop immediately.
I'm sorry about your struggles dude, whatever changes you intend to make to go more sustainable (if any, you look veru stubborn haha) I'm in. Sadly i ran out of people to promote your work to, not like there were a lot to begin with. Also this video covered a lot anx i can still appreciate your work, it's just the nature of the topic causing strong reactions despite all the disclaimers. I was stressed even before clicking.
Thank so much for this video, I wish I could like it multiple times! Literally everything I see online with regard to IL-PS is a kind of binary cartoon defending the one side while totally vilifying the other, and everyone seems to have such moral clarity with regard to what is going on at all times, on either side.
it’s funny because when i made this, it was supposed to just be a 20m intro to the *real* episode where i get into what actually happened and how much each narrative is true or false, and what they both leave out - and then when it turned out to be this long i thought it’d be boring to everyone because it’s standard “israelis think x and palestinians think y” stuff that you’d learn in any university 101 course when i went to school - but i didn’t realize how completely echo chambered is today and how most people have only ever heard one side or the other such that they don’t even know that there’s another perspective on it.
I don’t take issue with the factual content of this video, but it strikes me as a bit of a dodge to halfway imply that basically every non-class-based in-group’s self-justifying narrative is roughly equal in terms of factual and ethical content because they all contain distortions and elisions. If the point of the vid is more to persuade hardcore Israel boosters and Western “read Settlers!” teens to reconsider their understanding of the conflict, I get the rhetorical choice, but given universal class consciousness has failed again and again to transcend ethnic, national, and other chauvinisms, it’s a little pat to argue that the conflict would seem different if it were analyzed with a frame that does not overlap much with the cognitive content of what people actually thought they were doing in the moment they were doing it. If we’re actually moving toward a post-class world, there is value in this kind of analysis, but if we’re moving toward a world of fortress politics around a deteriorating climate, we’re going to have to sift through a lot of bullshit and make rough, dirty determinations about which class-based social formations ultimately have superior claims to being wronged or being in the wrong in conflicts over land and resources. Also, fwiw, settlers from North American nation states were not blind to the fact that they were displacing people, yet they did it anyway. They weren’t even necessarily blind to the fact they were serving elite interests, yet they perceived themselves as ultimately benefiting from that social order and so did it anyway. I’m not sure how much of a difference the counterfactual of Zionist settlers being aware of unethical land acquisition practices by Zionist firms would actually make.
ack no no no, you’re missing the point. i’m not saying the two narratives are equal in any way, except that they’re both relatively equally coherent and make sense. the point is to understand the two narratives so that we know what’s motivating peoples’ behaviour. one might be 100% accurate and the other 0% or the reverse, or anywhere in between. Next time is when i’ll look at what really happened and who’s to blame for what. I’m just avoiding taking positions (aside from what’s happening today) because i’d like everyone to get these basic ABCs regardless of their position, and to be interested in seeing the next part. As for people being blind to what they’re doing, you’ll see next time how that works, and who was blind and who wasn’t and how that affected what happened, and where we are today.
12:13 - "and once we put some class analysis back into the story, *and by class I don't mean capitalists or proletarians I mean a more fundamental type of class meaning: the class of people who make decisions versus the class who has to suffer the consequences of those decisions,* once we do that then the conflict which at first glance is seemingly all about identity politics becomes a conflict about something very different. Instead of a story about Jews and Arabas fighting each other, *the story becomes one about Jews elites and Arabs elites competing to see who gets to be the administrative elite of a new state. Using identity politics (i.e., nationalism) to portray themselves as representatives of their respective identity groups while they're actually needlessly putting their own population in harm's way, lying to them, exploiting them and generating conflict where there could have been peace and cooperation had it been left up to the majorities of the people on both sides."*
Why do you assume someone who says "read settlers" is a teen? Im in my thirties and I just recently read it and I think its insightful. I also happen to be a white guy. I understand t has problems.
Thank you so much for your work and effort! It is so important to hear a balanced and (as neutral as possible) voice about conflicts like this. I added you on patreon now, it's not much that I can give cause I am not earning much myself but when more and more just give a few dollars, I hope that soon, your income represents how important and amazing the work is that you do!
thank you! my take on this isn’t neutral at all, but for this episode i just wanted to set the stage so that people know what’s motivating the actors on either side. i get into what actually happened in the subsequent “brainstorm” episode i released a few days ago, and will cover it in detail in the scripted version a few months from now
Excellent work. I think your audience doesn't see how you're trying to make your way into this subject in a way that hopefully can speak to a broader viewership. That said, the perspective laid out in this video begs for the context that's coming in Part II (as you've probably noticed from the passionate comments) so, filled with self-loathing for being that guy, any timetable for that one dropping? Not in the sense you should feel pressured from it, but hopefully in a sense of pride that comes with knowing someone feels a lot of excitement and anticipation for your perspective and insights and wants to share them in their complete form with others.
i started with the intent of making it all one episode, but it just was too damned long - realstically it wont be out for several months - it took me 4 months to make this and it almost bankrupted me and the rush to finish before march 1 while dealing with a dozen legal emergencies for clients has totally burnt me out - so before i do part 2 of this, im doing a QnA about this episode, and then finishing the intersectionality episode i was 2/3 of the way through when oct 7 happened.
Good on you mate, always consider your videos to be the best on RU-vid when it comes to explaining left wing politics, politics in general actually. Take it easy, and thanks.
@@richardfinlayson1524 right?? everyone keeps telling me to monetize the channel, but fuck it and fuck all those ads! it’s like a joke watching videos that want to abolish capitalism with 50 fucking ads in it interrupting you and making you run across the kitchen when youre doing dished to turn off the fucking ads…
22:33 ok, just to be clear, there is going to be a part in the video where you clarify that Israel never actually offered the Palestinians a full state, RIGHT!?
Amazing effort. I'm only 52 minutes in but you've mentioned many things that aren't mentioned elsewhere. However I do feel like there's a glaring omission at this stage. You kind of treat the zionists' immigrating to palestine as just that: "immigration". Which would be innocent enough, but it was much worse than that. A very essential part of the conflict is that the zionists, from the very start, planned to invade Palestine and colonize it, against the will of the Arab society that had lived there continuously for almost 2000 years. Theodor Herzl literally tried to recruit the German Kaiser to help colonize it, and bribe the Ottoman Sultan in person in exchange for a colonial charter, the draft of which makes clear they we going to set up their own government and law enforcement. When that fell apart they lobbied Britain to help colonize the land, appealing to Christian Zionist sentiment, and succeeded in having prominent Jewish Zionists guarantee british support for taking over palestine. This then led to a program of massive "over-migration" where the existing arab society saw their land being flooded by a group of people who fully expected to start a country there. As Jabotinsky eventually explained in his "iron Wall" essay, this was going to predictably provoke the local population into a fight to defend their entire way of life. This would have played out the same almost anywhere else in the world. In this light, arab nationalism seemed more a matter of survival in the face of European colonialism. EDIT: You mention the 1939 white paper a few minutes later, but it's crucial to note that the proposal was for representative democracy with both Jews and Arabs sharing in a representative government. This should have been good for the zionists. But since they had planned to take the whole land over from the start this sent them into an explosion of terrorist violence that drove the british out. This is also a key part of the story I had no idea about but was shocked to learn: Peace could have come in 1939, but the Zionists launched a terrorist campaign instead to take over the whole land by force.
why are you siding with a colonizer in any way? it seems immoral and racist to me. i didn’t watch the whole video because i am not interested in the israeli perspective. being a settler is inherently immoral. i would probably reflect on your own subconscious racism. most countries are asking for a ceasefire and creating a video that is in anyway sympathetic to the israeli occupation is violent.
I wonder how come there seems to be so little overlap between your audience and those of so-called Breadtube channels. I've seen the creator of Andrewism in the comments here, but not a lot of mingling otherwise. So many viewers of other leftist channels seem to be unaware of you, despite the frankly insane quality you crank out every single time. Anyways, another banger, keep 'em coming!
thank you! and not sure why - andrewism is because he recommended one or two of my episodes and he comments on my stuff sometimes - maybe it’s the style or positions or something? breadtube can be very bubblethink and petty gossipy - but let people know about it if you can!
@@DjinnandTonik True. I just watched another video and saw Anark and LuckyBlackCat in the comments as well. However, I don't feel like these videos come across as pushy or gratuitous about anarchism, at least not to the audience of the more popular "Breadtube" channels (ironically a term with explicitly anarchist origins). Of course, they will probably never be super popular with the tankies.
I think Daniel might come across as a class reductionist to many leftish liberals. Which seems ridiculous to me. Or they just don't like the video aesthetics (which are somewhat unusual).
I am about halfway through and will continue watching later. I just have one major issue so far. At 1:02:00ish you say that there were orders to evacuate by Arab leaders to advance Arab war aims, but the book you put up by Benny Morris says "Many... left as a result of orders or advice from Arab military commanders and officials. Fears for their safety rather than a grand strategy of evacuation underlay these steps." So, your statement is only true if by war aim you mean safety of the Palestinians. But this not what Zionists mean when they say that Palestinians left at the behest of Arab leaders, they say it to mean that it was so the Arab militaries could attack more strongly which, based on the sources I read and the one you put in the screen at that time, just isn't true. Also, I'd recommend reading Ilan Pappé, he is another new Israeli historian, and he has criticized Morris in the past for not using Arabic sources (since he can't read Arabic) which basically means Morris is missing one sides voice in all of his work. I know it is a bit if a nitpick but it is a point I recently read up about after arguing with some family about it. Overall though I am impressed so far, you've covered a lot of the history in such a short time. Looking forward to finishing the video tomorrow and hearing your analysis in the next video!
i don’t think that contradicts what i said though? “fears for their safety rather than a grand strategy of evacuation” - they didn’t want to kill a bunch of arab civilians so they asked them to move so they could fight more effectively .. no? what’s a “grand strategy of evacuation” anyhow? maybe it wasn’t clear the way i said it but arab armies telling arabs to evacuate was a thing, but it wasn’t a major cause of flight - most of the flight was people afraid of being in a war zone and expulsion by israeli soldiers. i was vague about it here because again, im not trying to challenge the narratives in a big way here. and sure morris doesn’t read arabic, and he’s got other flaws, but as far as i know morris’ book is still the main book on this subject, most detailed etc. you see people on all sides referencing it. and it’s not friendly at all to the previous zionist narrative - later he came out and said the zionist forces were doing ethnic cleansing but they should have done more! his turn really reflect israelis’ turn in general to the right at that time.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Oh, I interpreted it as fear for their safety because Israeli forces were destroying villages, but I could see how it could be interpreted either way now. And yeah, I agree that based on what I've read you got the big picture right, like I said it was a bit of a nitpick, though now I see it was even more of a minor thing. Yeah, Morris' book is longer than Pappe's, but Pappe doesn't describe the Nakba as a "justified ethnic cleansing", so I chose to read his book. Maybe that was a mistake, and I will read it eventually.
@@andrewlipnick8131 a lot of morris’ book is pretty borring, just detailing this unit went to this area and fought and this many people were killed, or more interesting this unit went and cleared out this village. and at the time he wrote the first edition, he wasn’t saying it was good, he was in part writing it to convince israelis to support Olso, that they had caused some of the problems and needed to compromise - but by the second edition it was after oslo failed, and he and most of israelis blamed the palestinians, and he then declared they should have cleared out more villages etc. which always strikes me as insane, because you have very little terrorist activity from the arabs in israel. you have more crime and poverty related problems, but very rare that someone joins hamas or PLO militant factions and carries out any militant operations etc. pappe i might agree with a lot more politically but dont trust him to cover different sides of an issue, he’s always going to present whatever agrees with his goals, and ignore whatever contradicts his position.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 oh, well then maybe I won't read it, sounds pretty dull and not super important for the bigger picture. Though I do think I need to read more from people I disagree with. Thanks for the detailed responses btw!
@@andrewlipnick8131 it’s still worth reading, because it’s not all like that, but you can skip through lots of it so it’s not as daunting as it seems in terms of length
Palestine is from the river to the sea. Palestine is not the west bank only or Gazza only. Also, the egyptian leadership and the Jordanian leaderhsip are enemies for Egyptians and Jordanians, especially the Jordanian state elite.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69I don't know if you have ever come across the youtuber @LonerBox but he also likes to talk about this conflict from a left-wing perspective and goes over a lot of the history on his live streams.
I've noticed a serious flaw in your reasoning, half an hour in. The Arab perspective is not, generally, that "Jews left 3000 years ago", that is silly. The Arab perspective is that a Jew, historically, is a practitioner of a religion. This is also the Orthodox Jewish idea. The European Christians decided that "Jew" was an ethnicity, codified this in the Nuremberg Laws, and then gave the land away to a bunch of Atheists who called themselves "Jews". I'd highly reccomend listening to Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro, Dovid Weiss, and others, on how Zionism is the absolute antithesis on Judaism. I'd also reccomend Arab Jewish historian Avi Schlaim. Many of the Palestinians can trace their ancestry back to the Jew who converted to Islam or Christianity. Likewise, the Ashkenazi (European Jews) are descended from converts to Judaism. There are also Sephardi, Mizrahi, Kaifeng, Beta Israel, etc - all of which are distinct Jewish cultures, with their own genetics, languages, food, customs, dress, etc, as "Jew" refers to a religion. Zionism was started by Atheists, who retrofitted a perversion of Judaism around it. The Antisemitism that happened in Europe did not happen in the Muslim world. This is precisely because the Muslim world did not allow Usury full stop, whereas the Christian world granted Jews a monopoly on Usury. I haven't gotten this far yet, but I suspect you fail to mention that the Balfour Declaration was offered to Lord Rothschild in exchange for Lord Rothschild and his allies pulling their money out of the Austro-Hungarian economy, in the middle of WWI. I'll let you work out the implications of that.
Also see historian Schlomo Sand's work The Invention of the Jewish People. The Jews were not expelled after the Bar Kochba revolt, the Palestinian population was eliminated. Roman's never exiled rebellious populations, they killed them. Judaism was an evangelical religion prior to Bar Kochba, and had communities of local converts throughout the Roman and Persian empires. The communities of converts remained loyal to Rome during Bar Kochba, and it is from those communities of converts that Judaism survived in the Roman Empire.
Also, with the Law of Return, and the 60+ laws based on it, affecting every facet of life, and the Nation-State law, it is absurd to claim that Arab Israelis have equal rights. Israel is an Apartheid State even within its 67 borders.
the nation state law got overturned by the supreme court - and sorry, you’ll hear people argue all the time on the palestinian side that just because they jews were a state here 3000 years ago doesn’t give them the right to come back and push the arabs out, as well as the argument about jews being a religion not a nation. the 2nd argument is more popular in west bank and gaza the first one among diaspora educated palestinians. a lot of the other stuff you’re saying is full of shit, but not interesting enough to argue about - for example, lots of genetic studies show middle eastern origins of jewish populations across the world with some exceptions, notably the falasha were converts, but not the majority of ashkenazim.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 haaretz reported that mitochrondrial DNA tests (Judaism being matrilineal) done by Johns Hopkins University shows Ashkenazi are descended from 2 women originating in the Caucasus region. DNA tests are illegal in Israel. But go ahead and call others full of shit, when they specifically point to their sources.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 also, note you glossed over the Law of Return. But, hey, you also repeat the debunked mass rape claim, and negate to mention Oct 7th's civilian casualties were mainly caused by a Mass Hannibal by the IDF, as has been reported in Israeli media. You also claim that there is a controversy over Gaza's occupied status, despite the 2004 ICJ finding that it is definitely occupied under international law. You neglect to mention also, that T.E. Lawrence was sent to the Arab lands by the British during WWI to promise the Arabs self determination if they revolted against the Ottomans, at the same time they were promising Rothschild the Balfour devlaration in exchange for crashing the Austro-Hungarian Empire. As Wilde made clear to the ICJ a couple days ago, there has never been a legal or moral basis for Israel's existence. Everything it has ever done is illegal. I'd also reccomend the book Holocaust Victims Accuse. Available on Torah Jews website. It was the Zionist lobby that caused doors to close in other countries for Jewish refugees.
ill be doing QnA videos now after each episode so i can do stuff that doesn’t take 4 months, so it shouldnt be too long! and then i was already 2/3 of the way through another episode when oct 7th happened and i switchd to this, so there will be stuff coming
maybe in a week or two, im totally burnt out rn and have a huge backlog of emergency legal work. and the transcript i might need help with, i wrote a script and then kept adding and adding parts and theyre all in diffrent files…
Question: Do you believe violent indigenous resistance against american settlers was morally justified a full 250+ years after first contact and 100+ years after the US was founded? Another question: Was the indigenous narrative of resistance against encroaching settlers stealing land and genociding their people equally as valid and worth consideration as the settler desire to escape chaos and oppression from europe and spread civilization in a savage new world?
For the first question, you need to be more specific. What kind of violent resistance? Against whom specifically? Make it analogous to israel/palestine. Violence against military or corporate forces taking your land? Sure. Violence against a civilian who is knowingly taking your land. Probably. Violence against a civilian living on land that was stolen 200 years ago, but who had nothing to do with that theft, and doesn’t know about it, even tough they currently benefit from it? Absolutely not. For the second question - i don’t even understand it. I’m not saying the narratives are equally valid. I’m saying that we want to understand them, and test them out so that we can determine what is and isn’t valid. We have both of these narratives floating around that people geniunely believe. I’m articulating them, so the audience can understand why there is so much vehement debate, and next time we’ll be finding out what’s real or not.
You keep saying "they dont know". They do know. The kids and grandkids of european settlers knew in the 1850s, and israelis know now. Thats why they continued to stay. They're not ignorant of the history. They understand it. They understand the material benefits. They are active participants in a continuous settler colonial state even tho they weren't literally on the frontier killing or displacing indians/palestinians. They may not *call* it settler colonialism or think its *bad*, but to plead ignorance is absurd and is borderline apologia for the continued expansion of the state of israel. If the nazis successfully colonized poland, would polish resistance 75 years later be illegitimate? If russia colonizes crimea and eastern ukraine over the next 75 years, would western ukrainian attacks on the descendants of russian colonizers no longer be legitimate? If china colonizes xinjiang over the next 75 years, would uyghur attacks on han chinese in xinjiang be illegitimate as well? This line of thinking leads to some pretty dark places. Colonization is no longer a terrible crime, but is only bad in its initial phases. After that, have at it!
@PinkoJack so what I get from this is that you’ve clearly never met one single israeli in your life, and you’ve probably never met a jew in your life either. They do not fucking know. Generations of people did not know. Go watch even videos with interview of former zionists, like Miko Peled or Ofer Cassif - they grew up with israeli propaganda, had no clue about the actual history, until they learned it later on their own and became anti zionist activists. You are the exact sort of ignoramus who needs to be watching this video, yet your ignorance is loaded with arrogance, and serious moral retardation, so it might as well being a donkey watching the video… If you think it’s legitimate to go and kill the grandchildren of nazis or of whoever else whose grandparents did something bad, then i’m sorry, you’re a fucking moron, who might as well be a nazi yourself or a chimpanzee. ooga ooga, kill the other tribe, ooga ooga. if your grandfather did a crime, do you deserve to die for it? what kind of fucking idiocy is that? And colonialism is bad as long as it’s going on for, as long as people are being dispossessed and killed. You can’t blame people for what their parents or grandparents did, everyone who’s alive deserves to live in equality and freedom. you don’t get to equality and freedom by going and doing mindless murders of people because they’re from the same tribe as someone else who did something bad. What makes you different than a “price tag” settler in the west bank? it’s the exact same mentality, except you’ve deluded yourself into thinking you’re a leftist, when you’re actually a right wing lunatic. Also, by your “logic” the berbers in north africa, and the christians in jerusalem, should all be doing violent resistance against arab civilians because their ancestors did settler colonialism there in 700AD…
@@PinkoJackI’m not Israeli, but Jewish. For most of my life I supported Israel. Every time I saw any footage, or talk of Israeli war crimes, genocide, apartheid etc. I would usually be under the belief that the footage was either exaggerated, left parts out, or doesn’t reflect most of Israel. I would mentally justify how Israel has the moral high ground. Since I had already had that conclusion since before I knew what a Palestinian was. It was easier. Even though most of the time, I sympathized with Palestinians upon seeing footage of the brutality of the situation. But I couldn’t admit to myself that Israel was in the wrong.
36:36 The modern map of Palestine looks quite different today, wouldn't you agree? In fact, critical thought of the competing nationalism of that time could lead to a logical conclusion: One set of nationalists wanted to colonize a land. Telling those of like ethnicity from other lands who also had no legitimate claim to that land That they had historical ties to it, or that their nationalist religious book (torah) granted them divine right. That the inhabitants of that land were 'less than,' and deserved to live under their boot The other nationalists wanted to resist that colonization I draw the attention of the 1948 map once more Seems one side could be characterized as 'right wing' and one could be characterized as 'left wing' Have I missed anything so far? So far, you have but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and watch the rest I do enjoy your videos
you seem to be missing the whole point of this video - it’s to explain what people on either side think and what their narratives are so we can know what motivates them, and then we will dissect them next time and see what is and isnt true
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 I haven't watched the rest of vid yet. The israeli narrative is simple: Palestinians are human animals that don't deserve the land our ancestors abandoned over 2000 years ago, so we will take it. Even if it means bathing it in their blood. Not exaggerating, they've come out and said this themselves. The 1948 map proves that the Palestinian narrative has been dictated by the israeli one. They are being ethnically cleansed. The world is turning a blind eye, even condemning them for daring to resist. So far, it seems like an academic's "both sides" to people who think 'left' and 'right' can stand in the place of 'right' and 'wrong.' This isn't an attack. I realize you would have a different perspective than some lily-white more on from the American deep south. Put in the same context, it seems like blaming the natives for the colonization of the Americas.
There is no peace under colonialism and occupation, it is never the fault of Palestinians it is 100% the fault of the west and Israel, and yes both ppl’s are paying the price.
It is sad that you didn't bring up Arabs Revolt, it's alliance with the Entente, and the Entente betrayal towards Arabs after the Ottoman Empires got defeated.
yes that’s important history, and very interesting, but I tried to just limit it to what people need to know to get the basic understanding of what’s happening today - like i also skipped the 1973 war, and the occupation of south lebanon, or the massacres in golan heights in 1967 even if these are very important events - and still it’s 2hrs long! and honestly am not super familar with it, maybe i should have learned more
it’s funny because it really is a very basic ABC you’d learn in a 101 non-woke university course. i was really unhappy that what was supposed to be a 10-20 minute intro turned into the whole episode, but a friend who does palestine activism told me that even in the movement, no one knows anything about anything, and that people need to know the basics, so there you go. i think it’s the only video i’ve even done, where you can probably find most of the information easily elsewhere. but maybe not these days?
I do think the main inter-jewish opposition to zionism of the pre-israel period should at least be mentioned, even though an in-depth detailed explanation is not the focus of the video and would bloat it a lot: "the bund"/jewish labour bund, which was much more socialist then the "socialist" strands of zionism
I’m would love to see your episode on collective identity, especially since it is a force that is getting stronger and stronger in society (in a negative way).
yeah, in this age where everyone has a flag for every sexual tendency and every micro variation of anarchism or whatever other political micro ideology - and flags are historically largely for rallying people into battle… the psychology and evolution of collective identity is really fascinating and has huge implications for politics and it’s something people just take for granted and don’t think about.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69what if for fun you used a movie like dune to illustrate these talking points? FD signifier does this and I know you're not him but you could use his signified b sides as a template where we're getting more videos but you're not putting a ton of editing and production quality just talking over some media.
@@yosh6278 he doesn’t get copyright strikes for that? i’d have to chec that out as i havent seen his stuff, but it feels like another layer of work, to make the analogies etc?
1:35:50 I'm not seeing the promised link to the evidence. Would you mind either replying with it here, or, better yet, in the description? Are the show notes different from the description?
