This is a step by step video of our studding process for a 13B turbo engine from start to finish done the proper way on our CNC machine. Thumbs up if you like the video and subscribe for more!
First off, great video! Tons of good information. Secondly, I have a 12a at my disposal and was considering if it would be feasible to machine my own “stud kit” for it without machining the irons and housings (so basically just make studs that fit snugly into the stock holes). My main goal with this engine is to see if I can do these rotary “performance upgrades” (like studding, solid dowels, and porting) myself for cheaper instead of paying a huge amount of money for someone else to do it. So onto some other questions: Would this be useful? A waste of time? Should I just engine swap instead? Any comments are appreciated!
Outstanding machine work! CNC allows for repeatable accuracy, and produces a superior result. Just curious as to why you do not use lubricants while machining? Your cutters and end mills would last significantly longer. I suppose that would require an extra step to clean the parts after machining, and replacement end mills are built into the cost of the job. I have watched many rotary engine rebuilders on RU-vid, and I feel yours is the superior system. Curious though as what the CNC machining, and all the half inch replacement studs costs. Also would like to know what the CNC porting would cost as well. This would be ideal for high boost turbocharged 13b or 20b engine.
I was skeptical because i thought you were interpolating the holes with that track mill. But when the boring head came out i knew you were doing a quality job. Did you do any position commands so you loaded the ball screws in the same direction for each hole?
Ah....a machinist question. Great question and Not a chance with interpolating . We actually didnt show nor do we share all the steps and precautions / sets up we take but yes we go to great lengths to make sure the consistency is +/- .0005 We have seen results from many CNC shops / operators attempt this process and we see a larger percentage fail then succeed. There are so many variables which I can guess by your question and keen eye you are aware of yourself.
As someone with a CNC mill and a Drill and tap center (Brother Speedio s500x1) since you don't have flood coolant or an enclosure for it like my machine does you really should either oil your drilling ops or use an airblast coolant system. You could possibly double your speeds and feeds (so long as your spindle can handle the RPM's and torque.). Collant is especially handy when using an endmill to drill aluminum or even a twist drill to avoid gumming up the tool. In my case I would likely bore mill vs drilling the holes in the rotor housings just to avoid having to run a second boring op and make it take less than 45 seconds to do all those holes. Not all machines are the same true but yeah you need to run some sort of coolant other wise you are just pissing away money in tools from heat and wear. Nothing is worse than ruining a part when you gum up a tool and snap it. Plus coated carbide adds up over time. Also at 15:08 it looks like you may be slightly off center in your program or your work holding. You can hear it hit compared to the previous hole tap. Not so much to worry about since you are using a floating tap tool head but when you upgrade to a machine capable of rigid tapping you will need to adjust either the prog or check your fixtrue. Mightee bites or some sort of fixed positioning are your friend as they offer far better repeat-ability and a fraction of the time spent to setup the housings on the mill. Something to think about if you are doing a lot of these. Either way great job and keep it up.
pprotory I wouldn't take anything to this guy, he clearly doesn't understand cnc programming or set up his whole operation is too slow costing the customer $$$ and he can't even recommend a known quality stud kit!
WHat we are suggesting is to use our stud kit...the one you saw in the video. They are made by X-treme rotaries in Australia and the reason they are not mentioned as theirs is because they do not do mail order to the public anymore. It could be frustrating for someone to attempt to order them from the manufacturer and not be able to place an order. We have plenty avail. We brand them as REC studs....its the agreement I have with X-treme. We do not charge more based on time. If we were running the machine full time maybe that would be the case. We use the machine for JUST rotary work
We ONLY use the machine for our in house rotary work. We my no means run the machine all day long. Time is of no consequence to us or the customer as the price is based on a stud kit with machine work as a package. Price did not go up just because we dont have high speed machining capabilities. We DO have a coolant nozzle. Not sure if you missed it? I choose not to run it and Taylor tool made us some tools with coatings which can run dry for several dozen engines. I appreciate the suggestions
Yeah I could tell they were coated which is good. I saw the nozzle but with it off and being what looks like an open cabinet mill I wasn't sure if you just had it off or if it wasn't actually functional. I know now anyway that you aren't running the machine all day long but I figured if any of my suggestions led you to making that same amount of cash for less time of work than why not.
I will fabricate my own dril bit.make a jig.And im good.I can use some throw away parts to practice.And maybe on a drill press.But this dude does it right.If u have access to cnc and raw chromoly stock.But its good to pay if u do 1 or 2.but if u build alot of personal engines u do what this guy did.His work is clean.I would also experiment on "doweling"4 holes.the ones by factory dowel area.Hey my good man...Can u break sides if u squeeze alot of nitrous?
I am working on my own aluminum engine video...however we will likely never do a comparison vid between the two as alum is not common as they are an aftermarket race product
Would it be possible to build a 8 rotor NA? Ive seen that NA 6 rotor but nothing larger. I own a Chevrolet that holds the record for their longest car hood at over 6 feet long so it should fit.
Do you normally use coolant for the machining operations? I understand that coolant would make for poor viewing and that the machine isn't enclosed, but I'm sure mist coolant would increase tool life and a bunch of other things.
Interesting. I heard a bit of squeaking/chatter when the end mill did the plunge cut into the holes. Would a relief towards the back half of the end mill, sorta like a reamer, do anything to solve that chatter or is it a non critical thing because the holes still get bored out?
With the end mill it doesn't really matter since it gets bored afterwards. Boring tool has indexable inserts, if it doesn't last quite as long that's still worth not having a mess. And they are not that expensive. For tapping though, I'd want to use some sort of lubricant
Pavel Kravchuk: Funny you should mention a relief as Taylor JUST did that on the rotor housing bit. Haha . Alistair B is correct about dry cutting...however, as for the tapping, its only cast iron....not like we are trying to tap tool steel. The Kennametal tap we have is bloody sharp and saws through the cast like butter. REPLY
Yes its a blessing. We are offering a new service to where we cut the bridge port shape and allow the customer to do the runner and blending. Video will be out within a week .. Stand by
On 12:50 I noticed you clamped the intermediate plate without indicating the part, how do you know if its centered or not? What is your tolerance for the center of the hole and diameter? Also what of cnc machine are you using?
There really needs to be a complete re-design of the cylinder sections as for how they are connected and held together. Using LONG bolts is problematical regardless of accuracy of fitment. It has to become as if ONE PIECE when fully assembled so that any counter twisting forces against the cylinder bodies are cancelled out because there's no place for the forces to concentrate and cause failure in the integrity of the entire assembly. I have a few ideas on how to accomplish this. Should seem obvioyus to anyone trained in the art. ;) GodSpeed!
This all depends what type of fuel is used. The limiting factor with pump gas is the amount of boost you can run. If race gas is used along with proper tuning a 13B engine will handle well over 1000HP.
How much boost or and hp can i archive with the OEM bolts and pins? Im aiming 1 bar with a gt35r hta 86 with a atp turbo housing 1.06 t4 (3mm apex seals etc)
If the engine detonates above 300 HP the dowel area of the front or rear iron can crack. It doesnt take big HP for this to happen. If your tuning is bang on and there are no fuel system failures or ignition issues a stock engine (no studs) can take 600-700 HP but if detonation occurs at these high levels the block will crack much easier.
No bridge porting does not respond well on RX8's and because of that we do not solicit this porting however we do have a brand new CNC exhaust port that adds more power then intake porting. Video will be out within the next week. Stand by
This is interesting. Do you mean the renesis does not respond to bridge porting while the stock intakes and exhausts are being used, or are you talking about a fully built motor. I fail to see how bridge porting is not an advantage with a properl tuned intake.
Are you on the RX8Club forums? It's common knowledge there that bridgeporting a Renesis is a waste of time and money. Apparently in _can_ work; it just doesn't really add any power gains and reduces reliability. See here: www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/street-port-exhaust-port-owners-n-261399/
All of the people on these forums saying it reduces reliability have not mentioned anything about whether they are running stock apex seals or if they have had their rotors machined for rx7 seals. and as far as I can tell they're all running stock manifolds and injectors. which does not classify as a fully built motor.
cornelis jones, if and when I build my rx8 I will be building it. New Ecu, new injectors, intake manifold, exhaust system, apex seals, and what ever else I can put into it
If everything is tight, it won't let the harmonics build up and produce the shock waves that break stuff, right? I would compare the 2-piece dowel to drilling a hole at the end of a crack; the dowels act like an antenna, and the gap between them stops the frequency wave. Do rotor engines use a knock sensor?
Knock sensors are not a concern for any engines we build as 99% of engines that are being studded run stand a;lone ECU and most stand alone do not utilize a knock sensor. This has not caused problems for any of the engines we have built
