(1792) Tensionless Lock (X-Rayed & Dissected) 

Well, that really gangs my sheng.

There was alot of words in that sentence that is never combined with "Chinese"

@@danisoful The actual truth is Chinese manufacturers can and do make super high quality products, but quality is expensive anywhere in the world and nobody over here wants to pay full price for high quality Chinese products which is why they send us their junk. We pay junk prices, they give us junk products.

@@lifeteen2 Yeah I know, or it depends on the product of course.

¹1

2 years on, and I can't find anyone who's picked it on camera.

Just done by machine - same as all other locks.

I think for that they will need the tension bar that the 2 of them are going to make

I like that Bill is not too proud to make a video where he says he don't know how too open it, yet.

Imagine a naughty bucket that LPL has.

I think that is picking it while you have an xray view.

Edit: I missed a detail. The outer sidebar locks the middle cylinder and the casing, preventing it from rotating freely. The flaw bellow cannot be exploited. --- This specific model have serious design flaw, that makes it possible to bypass the lock. Basically, you need a tool that resembles the key, but longer and you don't need any cuts for the sliders. You insert it into the lock, press it inward as hard as you can and rotate. You use friction to directly rotate the middle cylinder. The inner cylinder (that has all the sliders) is open on both sides, so the tool/key can pass through it fully. To increase security, you need something to close the inner cylinder on one side. The insert tool may also have small spikes, with the idea of making small holes on the middle cylinder and use them as leverage for the rotation. It would leave marks, but they won't be visible without disassembly. I've read some comments about using a drill, and my first idea was to spin the inner cylinder fast and use the friction between the inner and middle cylinders. Or rotating and pressing the inner cylinder into the middle one, sideways or in depth. Then I watched the video again and spotted that the keyway of the inner cylinder is open on both sides.

Yes, I think this is the only way to apply some tension to the wafers, but then the problem is to leave the sliders set after you find the gate. Maybe (if the sliders are magnetic) you can try placing a strong magnet opposite to the brass thing that hold the springs, to see if you can prevent the spring of the wafers to move them back after you, hopefully, set it to the gate.

Amazon? I'd like a link

@@idkidk4334 couldn't locate it on Amazon. I searched back through my past orders, and found the lock, however it shows as "currently unavailable". You could give it a try searching, it was listed as "Padlock- Atomic Key Shutter Garage door lock 2.8" high security steel 45mm safety". If you are familiar with Albert Lebel's lockpicking channel, he is who I sent mine off to.

Thanks, of course they got rid of it...

@@idkidk4334 I know, they will keep selling all the Master number 3's in the world, but won't keep something like this lock 🙄

He won't make a video until he makes special tool and can open it in 2 minutes.

You will NEVER see a video on a padlock LPL can't pick. He's too proud for that.

Bowley

LPL only makes videos of the easiest locks with the easiest bitting and only after training before recording opening it. 🎣

Yes, I would love for LPL to spend a few days is the lock dungeon with one of these and a bottle of spirits

Uuh, do you not read what you've typed? Your comment says the wrong thing.

Gangsheng sells the overall lock, but the engineering on the core is so different from the lock-body that it's doubtful they build their own cores. Therefore name recognition isn't useful here. Every single other lock they make could make Masterlock look secure.

Hmm. That's interesting

And they're only about $15 shipped.

It will probably go something like this: Master lock chief engineer and designer: we understand it, and could duplicated it. Master lock CEO, and CFO: this will give us a very secure lock Master lock chief bean counter: that core would cost us a fortune to mill. Forget it!!

@@stanfordcoffee As a beancounter, I want to point out that we don't tell the company what to do or make or how. We just say "this is what it will cost if you do this, this is the market estimate that you gave us, this is the profit or loss per unit and per line". The decision on what to do then comes from the CEO/CFO. No beancounter has ever told a company to crap on their customers, to cheapen their design, to degrade their workers. Our job is to provide accurate information. Stop blaming us for dumb, greedy, self-destructive management decisions.

They're the FRAM of locks...Remember the " Pay the man now or pay him later. " ads by FRAM? With Master Lock the ads were a bullet through the padlock. Ads are just a brainwashing technique and they work pretty good.

And using a bolt-cutter on a good steel shackle makes me glad battery powered angle grinders exist.

But the bowley can be snapped open, no?

You can't apply a twist for tension because there is no tension. Not only do all the gates need to be aligned, but the inner core has to be aligned with the middle core too.

Interesting idea, but it would only work if the sidebar spring is very strong and the slider springs are very weak. The inner sidebar has to drop into the groove faster than the 12 sliders come unaligned. Simply getting all their gates to align at the exact same second as they're all springing shut would probably be harder than just decoding the lock.

Or a ‘blanked’ key with a bunch of little leaf springs on it for each wafer. Insert key and each wafer will find its own tension

@@lemmonsinmyeyes Will find its own tension against what?

@@CristiNeagu Yeah, this is a lock where you would need to "feel" each slider and hope that you can discern some slight resistance as a gate passes the sidebar with the tiny force that is on it. And then it gets even worse because you have to somehow keep that slider in position as you tackle the others. This lock would require an intricate custom picking key that you would place bitting into as you pick each slider. Not impossible but also not practical, and adding any amount of false gates would make that method take exponentially longer.

China can make excellent things, *when they choose to and are paid to*. They can make absolute junk, and have a habit of substituting materials- I've seen 4140L steel subbed in for 1050 (which is not an acceptable substitute). However, if you specify what you want and pay for it, they can do very well. I've seen Chinese fakes of Rolexes that would fool all but the most aware collector, but I've also seen ones that wouldn't fool anyone.

@@caseydarrah Totally agree with you. For the right price you can get excellent locks from China. generally they pump out the cheap ones though that we are a ll familiar with.

The most secure method still seems to be the screw from the top, blocked by the shackle when it is locked. That way when you're able to reach the screw, you already had to open the shackle some other way.

Bolt cutters on the shackle are faster than drilling out a brass pin.

Don't worry, they're still manufacturing new locks with flaws that were discovered when your grandpa was a kid! ;-)

Locks are complicated. There will always be locks that hurt to learn about no matter how long one has been picking locks.

@MM aY I just started to pick 5 or 6 Months ago, Found some Locks that looked inpossible to me. Now I can pick there are these discpadlocks. I hated them because I dont have the right tools. After many Weeks of trying i just realised that thees Parkside(I think that was the company name) Disc Padlocks just needed a screwdriver and the whole core fell out... MASSIV DESINGN FAILURE AND SMALL BRAIN BREAD DIDNT REALISED! So, if you really want to, you will find a way. I think theres a way for every Lock. It's maybe hard or sometimes your own dumbnass (so was on me), but you will open this. Take your time and you'll get it.

BINGO

Have you posted any vids of that lock on your channel?

@@RPRosen-ki2fk No, but I hope to in the future. It was going to be one of the locks on the new challenge chest for Bill. But since he's retired, I have to find a new picker who is good enough to pick open the insanely complex locks I have in store for this new crazy challenge chest.

Also check out Yuema 750 &/or 760, nearly identical except with front/back cores instead of inner/outer cores. And the 760 has an extra feature on the bottom of the core.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9iUjxXJrUcY.html Here's a nice talk about Chinese locks. They've been innovating in secret for years. The best locks just aren't permitted to be exported or even sent outside Beijing.

@@ShadoFXPerino That was a good vid, thanks!

At 11:02 you can see that some wafers have the V-groove on different location. The sliders within the inner rectangle move the V-groove horizontally to the right location to allow the inner sidebar to "fall into" the cylinder. So a lockpicker really needs to move -- and HOLD -- all the wafers to the correct spot for all the V-grooves to line up.

@@PanduPoluan and if we assume that the keys have at the very least 4 cuts, I think we'd be looking at a minimum of 20,000 combinations, if it has 6... impossible to just guess.

You also know the wafers' gates are in different positions bc the cuts on the key aren't all the same. And yeah, a picker would need 12 hands i guess

Nope:( all you would see is the warding and the nub on the slider that the key interacts with

Yep, or why not a full blown superglue or loctite attack and simply glue the inner chamber and containing sleeve together

@@michaeledson1033 That was my first thought was well. However, the outer sidebar needs to drop in otherwise it blocks the rotation of the middle sleeve.

@@arminkeller Agreed, so much for a half-assed understanding before posting o7

Imagine if this core is put in the Abus Rock 83/80 body ... see LPL's [567] : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LUmjLLXl8Y4.html

At 10:35 you can see that the wafers are stacked practically against one another and barely any gap between the skeleton and the wafers; they have been precision machined. In addition, one needs to PULL IN the inner sidebar to give any tension. That's another difficult maneuver to do.

Na you would only need to stop the core from spinning. That would be trivial

The sliders look like SS, so I don't know that drilling the centre would actually help, even if you could keep it still. If you are going to drill, why not do what Bill did and drill out the core retention pin? If they change that to SS, then I guess a slide hammer is your best bet to avoid a very messy drilling experience. Or angle grinder, since we're going destructive anyway...

@@yetanotherstronk I agree with you. This is more a what-if-thought: "Wouldn't it be great to have that locking mechanism on your door?" Not as a padlock but as a mortise or other style of door cylinder. You are probably right about pulling the core with a Wendt Zieh-Fix or slide hammer.

You could drill out the core down through the sheer line, but it depends if the sidebars are hardened. It might be easier to pull the core out because it's only held in by a flimsy circlip. Drilling out the retaining pin would be the easiest way though. Just like bill did.

@@jutonium2169 if your willing to apply enough brute Force that entry is evident you don't bother with the lock. There are easier ways to access anything.

If so they should make all the parts stainless and non magnetic

If the lock was in a door, that would be a no-go ...

Heh, if you're going for destructive attacks, a pair of wrenches should be enough to break the shackle. Much easier as well, since you don't have to fix the inner cylinder first (or else the inner cylinder will simply turn around with the drill).

A freely rotating core would be difficult to drill though as it'll just spin around. Also driving a screw in to pull the core would be very hard.

just like a combination lock you would only get a feel on the highest two. So it would be a lot of back and forth with the specialized tool.

Yes, this seems to be the best approach imo. Decode it by feeling/listening for when the slider stops making contact with the sidebar, and decoding the lock. You could use 12 special picks.

@@curlyvideos Given the same springs arcross sliders and same spacing when they are aligned, that's the weakness. If you can find one gate and measure the spring tension on the slider there, you can measure that on the other sliders and decode the lock.

It would need a very intricate tool, basically a key that you can add bitting to like lego blocks, while still being open enough to let you pick freely enough to feel the indent. It would be a feat of engineering as much as a feat of picking.

If you're going destructive, a pair of wrenches would be enough :-)

To put it in a simpler term: Inner cylinder has a sidebar which sits flush against the outside of the cylinder unless the right key is in. Upon which the sidebar can move deeper into the inner cylinder causing a groove to appear. Outer cylinder has a sidebar which will "fall down" into the groove of the inner cylinder (only if the right key is inserted). This engages the outer cylinder with the inner cylinder. Outer cylinder is connected with the cam mechanism that disengages the big ball bearings that hold the shackle in. The two small ball-bearings-with-springs are there just to ensure that the outer sidebar will "fall into" the groove on the inner cylinder regardless of orientation.

@@PanduPoluan thank you, it was the sidebars getting me stuck it seems :)

... well, the lock itself is amazing ... the Padlock itself, maybe not so much ...