I know he is trying to represent a WW2 US soldier, but for some reason, Ian looks more like a US backed dictator in some foreign country. All he is missing are some medals and a cigar.
Very true about the pistol skills. I see that manifest amongst many modern day soldiers and marines. In fact, I started out the same way and then came to be one one of the weirdos with a higher pistol badge than the rifle badge. That can be chalked up to me getting into pistol competitions like IDPA, USPSA and steel challenge though and me not having access to rifle ranges over 100-200 yards.
Boot camp. Dad once said, you cant hit anything with a 45 at this distance. Ge was then ordered to stand beside the target. Learned to keep his mouth shut after that
@@melc311 I'd rather have a sword than a pistol. But that may be influenced by the fact I have greater faith in my swordsmanship than my pistol skills.
the only insult that’s better than that is “If it weren’t for the Allies, Poland would be speaking German,” to which a Polish person would probably respond with “I demand an apology”
@TheT34Tank Adam said he wanted to do something else after working on nothing but MB at all times for, what was it, a decade? And Jamie always maintained he was more comfortable behind the scenes than in front of a camera. I think the show could've kept going with the build team, but the network was looking to simultaneously cut costs while constantly ramping up the spectacle and it wasn't a feasible plan.
I've lost quite a bit of respect for Adam Savage due to his big mouth on Twitter so I'm hesitant to bother with his work anymore, but it's hard to argue that anyone could replace the original duo. I saw Mythbusters Live several years ago. The show itself was a rather simple affair but it was worth it simply to listen to Jamie and Adam talk in depth about what they did for two hours. Maybe in another generation the concept might be worth reviving, but right now I think it's best to just let sleeping dogs lie.
@@herbderbler1585 After watching adam on tested is pretty obvious that jamie was the brains and adam was mostly a tv presenter on mythbusters. which makes sense jamie has a huge and varied career history and adam just made laser cut models for a living
@@zoiders The hedge rows speak German, the hills speak Chinese, the trees speak Vietnamese, the sand speaks Arabic, the mountains speak Pashton, but the rooftops speak Korean.
I also doubt that WW2 GIs use the "Jeff Cooper" double hand 'advanced method' pistol grip (as it did not exist in WW2) and likely used only their strong hand.
There's a few training videos online from that time-frame with exactly that stance - strong hand only. It would add a fair bit of time to each stage if Ian (or really anyone) had shot with that style.
They were really trained to point shoot. Good point shooting is much faster, and I train this way every chance I get. Past 25 feet accuracy drops off, but the speed. Also I don’t have the best eyes in the world and I am cross eyed dominate, so it takes me longer than average to pick up the front sight.
Ian also uses a two handed grip that wasn't taught at the time. And speaking as a totally novice shooter, I found firing full power rifles a lot easier to get on target than the 9mm I tried afterwards, so I can really visualise the advantage the carbine offers even with minimal training.
Yeah, after basic training, I bet a lot of soldiers in support roles hardly fired a round partly due to a lack of access to ranges to train on and partly due to the cost and logistical drain of all the ammunition needed for them to be training regularly. Even infantrymen probably didn't get that much range time after their MOS training except in cases where they were stationed at a base in theater for an extended period like in England waiting for D-Day.
I'm currently reading "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt.Col. John George. The only rifle training the men of his machine gun platoon got prior to shipping out for the Pacific was one morning with some basic instruction on sight alignment and trigger squeeze and fifteen rounds each.
No surprising results here. And that's taking into account that the simulations done here are relatively favorable to the 1911. In RL situations, support crews would typically engage enemies at distances where the 1911 is not even viable.
This is more a weapons system comparison rather than just the weapon. The incredibly slow times for the 1911, can in part be attributed to the ridiculously slow holster. Therefore probably making it an even more accurate comparison under pressure.
I remember my uncle that was fighting in WWII in Europe the term for Germans was Jerry or Kraut at that time.If you watch old WWII movies & documentaries you will hear that.
A LOT of what I see, is the trouble Ian is having with the "suicide flap" holster. When I was an MP at Bragg in the late 90s, we were going through a monumental equipment shift, from "military gear" to "civilian gear." Yep, back then, it was the military who looked to civilian cops for advice... Not like that today... Hasn't since 9/11... But, I digress. I was issued a suicide flap holster, in OD Green (as was the MP Duty belt configuration of the time) and we called them that for a reason... Not only did you have to fight with, and hold up the flap, the friction inside the holster during the draw, would cause the whole f'n holster to flip up, and jam everything up. Every time, throughout this video, you can see Gun Jeebus encountering these problems. When the MPs switched to "real cop" equipment, we went with Bianchi. And they actually made those flap holsters in black, I still have mine - they were sold commercially too, I didn't steal, I just bought mine before they were issued. I'm stylish like that. 😏😎 Now, they did make a thumb-break snap "conversion" which eliminated the suicide flap, and I also had that, and it was a game changer, for that holster. The Uncle Mike's Level 3 holster was THE hot item at the time, and UM's had since gone to complete shit. Only the K9s, and a few other very specialized individual MPs (like wildlife and traffic crash investigators, etc) were issued them, because the Uncle Mike's was that goddamn radical of a change from the traditional, even in the civilian police world. So, the elites of the already elite Airborne MPs got the goodies. The suicide flap holster was eliminated by 2001, replaced with *horrible* Bianchi Level II holsters, that would literally jam the Berettas in... They were downright lethal, without a doubt. Way worse than the suicide flap even... We had to jam our pistols through the holster/unholster procedure hundreds of times, sometimes having to do it by teams, peeling off shreds of plastic from the Bianchi "pinch system" - until the pinch system was effectively useless as anything more than light retention, and we relief on the snap. By that time, I was a DA Civilian cop, working at Fort Greely Alaska. I still have that holster too, because by... Urggghh... 2005-ish... We standardized on the UM Level 3. Although, I also carried with a Serpa (which became the next big thing after the UM's Level 3) - again, my personality and being the first kid on the block to have the newest toy, 😆 But, that didn't last long... Even though I still think the Serpa is a BAMF. Then, eventually - as a cop for Veterans Affairs in my career - everyone went to Safariland holsters, and Uncle Mike's, became obsolete. And uh, yeah - so there's your "Holy crap that was a long post, lesson in military holster history" way of saying, holsters make all the difference - choose wisely, choose what fits, and and choose knowing that you are 100% confident, if you ever have the need in a real world "holy f'k, oh dear!"
Well, I have none of your record, but it seemed a lot like that to me as well. I wonder how the pistol would have fared if it was laying on the barrel itself. Of course, the recoil difference matters as well.
Definitely would have been closer with a better holster and/or the pistol on the table. The point Ian's trying to make is difficult since he's a good shot with pistols, and far more practiced than most line infantry were with pistols at the time, let alone support troops. The carbine is much better for someone who can't aim with a pistol, but pretty similar for someone who can. I know from experience with my Grandfather's M1911A1 and M1 Carbine from WWII that it's far easier for a novice to get shots on target with the carbine than the pistol.
@@muster3033 Well you can look at what the U.S. is doing in the current crisis, and then look at what Angela Merkel is doing in her twin crises right now, then sit back and be self-satisfied.
One thing to consider is that I would think Ian has had far more handgun trigger time than the avg WW-II GI would have had which is bound to improve his 1911 times over what the avg GI would have done. This makes the M1 in my eyes at least even better than shown for it's intended propose.
I still think that if I had to chose any one gun to hand to an inexperienced shooter in a defensive situation it would still to this day be the M1 Carbine. Extremely simple, lightweight, fires a reasonably effective but low recoiling cartridge, and requires far less training to use effectively than most any other gun whether it be a rifle or handgun
Even if Ian is an experienced pistol shooter with better training then the avg soldier, the fact that the M1 still beats out the 1911 in his hands is a testament to how much better a M1 was.
I giggled like a girl everytime Ian said "Ah! Germans!" But yeah like everyone else your handgun skills are good, you'd shoot a handgun as good as a draftee if you shot 1 handed
This is all neat and cool but when comes the pirate version where Ian takes a blunderbuss, musket & cutlass to the challenge! Ofcourse also when he chanting sea chanties like "Leave her johnny leave her" and "WE ARE WOLVES OF THE SEAAA"
"Ahah, the blood runs cold We take our loot but don't get old Yo, yo ho Yo, yo ho All hail, the mighty He's arising from the deep With tattered sails and incredible tales we're caught in endless seas." Tattered Sails from Curse of the Vampire Coast
30 carbine Fired from a rifle : every one :it's under powered and won't penetrate a thick coat Fired from a pistol : weapon of mass destruction Tommy gun or 9 mm ars are fine too I don't get why some people hate 30 carbine that much
Because some people would rather pretend that a cartridge roughly equivalent to .357 magnum can't penetrate a winter coat than admit that grandpa missed.
They probably think of it as less than a full power battle rifle. By that standard it is not as good. For its intended role it seems great. Ian demonstrated its excellent shootability. In these scenarios the carbine would probably put shots on target better than the M1 Garand.
I mean, I'm not advocating the 1911 over the carbine, I'm just doubting that the big advantage to the carbine was how fast it could be brought to bear. I think the advantage to the M1 carbine would be apparent if the Germans surprised you at a range of 60 yards, and they had K98s.
Scott Kenny well I wasn’t saying it had to be. Was kinda making the point that bringing it over your shoulder is still gonna be faster than trying to draw from a holster.
@@alexmoore1506 yeah, I demonstrated that to a shipyard worker who thought it would be funny to make the armed guard checking his bag jump. Good thing the rifle was Condition 3.
I wonder, provided one was stationed in States, or somewhere else where 45ACP was readily available for purchase was there a hard cap to how much you could train with your pistol? (Say that I am a staff officer or clerk, but I am really concerned that I may end up shooting some krauts with my 1911, could I simply train more than what Army required of me if I was willing to sacrifice my own time and potentially pay for ammo, or was it Regulations say you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month and so you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month)?
I've always wanted to see Ian take a non shooter and test these series. Like a day shooting an M1 Garand and then a do a match compare them to a skilled Bolt action shooter and see how they compare. Or the same with a 1911 vs the m1 carbine. You know just to see how much easier it is to pick up these weapons as a "conscript"
@@taichanie Bloke in the range mede something in the line you ask for. He bring Lindybeige and have him making mad minutes with a Mauser, a Swiss bolt action rifle, a SMLE and a Garand
Umm... I always find it useful to read what I mis-typed before hitting the Comment button. Can't really make sense of "a randomer employed a man artillery."
Very cool demonstration! Anecdotally, my step dad (Wilder Stanley) from Maine was a WWII truck driver in Europe. One day on an island where he was caretaker in the 80’s I watched him fire his M1 Garand open sites, folded down, at 330 yards and hit a one gallon coffee can size target dead center. After discovering this was not luck, but his skill level I asked why he was a truck driver and not a sniper or such. His reply was that most all the young men “could shoot” in those days as it was just a life skill.
was the .30 carbine round nose or spitzer? (not that it matters for short range, but it would cause changes in velocity and accuracy problems at range)
It makes you wonder why the idea of an SBR didn't happen earlier: The biggest jump from pistol to rifle isn't in the barrel, but in the stock and handguard.
john doe he’s talking abut the concept, the philosophy of use, it’s a PDW because it’s intended to fill the roll of a PDW. Not really sure why you think a PDW has to be tied to the small projectile, high velocity concept? That’s just a more modern interpretation of how the goal would be achieved but a “PDW” is a “Personal Defence Weapon” in whatever guise that comes, not the narrow definition you think it is. Whether it was the 1st PDW is open to debate, considering guns like the Lange Pistole & stocked C96’s.
You should also keep in mind that Ian shot the pistol very accurately, while a random support troop in WW2 would probably miss quite a bit more and have to reload, making the gap between the 1911 and M1 much more evident
Also you have to consider the army standard issue holster at that time was to protect the pistol from mud and water, (remember the trench's of WW1). There was no army "Quick Draw" holster design criteria. So Ian was handicapped because he could not use a modern holster specifically designed for quick draw competition. Even so it displays how wide the gap could be with people who shot only rifle or shotguns, and only saw pistols in the movies.
The extra 2 seconds for the 1911 on the first drill were the holster rather than the weapon. The M1 carbine is a much more effective weapon no matter what you look at. It's a little more than double the capacity, it's got a round that is as effective as 7.62x39, and it's got a much longer effective range. The only time that you would prefer a pistol as a main-arm is when there's no room to maneuver anything larger. Such as in a tunnel dug by VC.
The holster is part of the weapon system. Maybe it could have been improved for faster draw, but the fact is that if you were issued a 1911 in WWII you would almost definitely be carrying it in that type of holster, and the first thing you would have to do if you met unexpected trouble would be to draw it from said holster.
Seemed that the 1911 was excessively handicapped by being in the strap holster while having the carbine easily accessible, how often would a GI have had the carbine on the seat beside him? More likely behind the seat and certainly not conveniently on a barrel within reach
I honestly don't think anyone in the german side was using stocked Lugers in WWII. that was a thing in WW1, in trench raids, and for artillery lugers almost exclusively. By WWII I don't think anyone was putting a stock on his luger anymore.
@@ramjb You might be right, I'm just going off Wikipedia, but it says that artillery lugers that were in storage during WW2 had new stocks made and were reissued to some artillery crews. A braced or stocked pistol just seems like the perfect compromise between ease of use and ease of carry to my mind, I would like to see how close it goes.
I think you'd be in a 'the worst of all worlds' situation with the stocked pistol: almost the weight and bulk of the M1, with the barrel length and round of a standard pistol.
@@jic1 The 8" barrel on the LP.08 should give the 9mm a little bit of a velocity boost but the M1 carbine will still have the advantage. Out to 100 yards the M1 is comparable to .357 Magnum. If you've never handled an M1 it's surprisingly handy. It reminds me of a Ruger 10/22.
Back in the 80's, I had a commercially made M1 Carbine. It looked great after I bought an NOS wood handguard and got rid of the stamped steel one it came with new. It didn't cycle very well, it had many fail to load problems, and failure to eject spent cartridges. It was my first rifle and it didn't cost very much. If I brought it to a gunsmith, maybe it could have been polished or something done to make it run better. But, I was young and didn't know how to fix it. It never saw much use and I gave it away to a friend.
Got a 1944 m1 carbine and love shooting it. Thank you for showing the practical difference and was enlightening :) love the channel and learn something new every time.
Yeah, I noticed that too. A southpaw trying to operate a right-handed gun is at quite the disadvantage I would imagine. Either they have to operate it right-handed, which probably feels very awkward for them, or they have some difficulties with things like the charging handle or other features being on the wrong side if they try to use it left-handed.
@@kentvesser9484 the charging handles on guns like the M1, ak, m1a, 10/22 and the like are great for lefties. Especially if they have a centered paddle type mag release (like most i listed). It allows us to keep our trigger hand on the gun and more or less keep it shouldered while charging the firearm without the need to reach around the weapon (like right handed folk have to do). Pistols on the other hand are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
It's good to see things that we all think we know tested. Whether or not the test turns out as I thought it would, I still learn something useful. I was pretty sure the carbine would prove to be a more capable self-defense weapon but I'd never actually seen that tested until now.
I think Ian makes an excellent point here when he says that he is a very good pistol shot - something almost no US troop would be. Their basic training covered rifle handling, and the M1 Carbine handling is almost identical to the Garand, so the carbine would be incomparably more familiar to the troops than a pistol. An interesting follow up would be to get an 'Average Joe' in to make these same shots, as I think that would widen the gap between the two weapons considerably more than Ian's higher skill shows.
That was really cool! Something I'd really like to see would be this same drill, run perhaps with one of your less-experienced friends. You are considerably above-average in skill level with a pistol, which most likely had a considerable effect in keeping it reasonably close. A couple of those would likely have involved a reload for a less-skilled pistol shooter, and quite a lot more misses, which the carbine is better suited to recover from with the deeper magazine. Really good demonstration, and fun to watch!
I love the way you have highlighted the "Purpose" behind weapon development. I wondered why with the M1 you would need a carbine? Your practical shooting test answered that question.
Interesting video, I worked at V-Corps in 80-90’s, a co worker was a retiree, that during WWII was an aid to General Patton, during the war he was issued the 30 carbine, was not excited about its knock down - kill power during his use of it. His name was Arthur Vess.
Ian, you missed a wonderful opportunity. If you had only changed the " "Ah, Germans!" on the last stage. Given the smaller plates I think an "Ah, Poodles!" would have been true RU-vid Gold... 😇 (And before the hate rains down, my last dog was a miniature poodle named Toby. He was the best dog I have ever had.)
As a german, my only reaction to foreigners mentioning the war in a non historical context is boredom. You see, here in Germany the constant remembrance of the war and it's horrors, albeit important, has become something close to indoctrination. It's all over the media, schools, universities, society. Born 40 years after the war? Doesn't matter, you're guilty none the less. If nations have a soul, Germany's soul is seriously crippled. And that's exactly what the lefties want. Nazis. Everywhere. Easiest way to justify their own existence.
@@vibeslide we are having a very similar problem here in the States. . . oh, you were born 130 years after slavery ended? Too bad, it's still your fault and you should be punished for it. And i dont care if your family _wasn't even in America_ untill the '80s, you are still a monster.
I'm aware of the reference, thanks folks. Guess I just wanted to rant a little over the ongoing worldwide changes in freedom of speech and as a whole. It's frustrating.
Interesting. Having had to deploy but a pistol(M9) and a carbine(M4) from the interior of a HMMWV I can tell you that for ergonomic reasons, the pistol was far more convenient. Especially after I secured a shoulder holster.
Why wouldn't it? Very accurate, reliable pistol firing bowling balls. If it wasn't a great pistol, it wouldn't be in use today by millions of people for competition, self defense and recreation well over a hundred years after its design. Its only downside is capacity, but even that issue is addressed by this thing called "reloading".
I have 5 of em. All of Inland mfg (S/Ns are below 300,000 and post-war refurbished.) Issues: 1: Magazine springs (leave a mag loaded for a time and the spring gets compressed and won't spring back). 2: Feed ramp (the tip of the bullet will stick to the feed ramp so I have polished them really well, fixing the issue). 3: I cant's stand the peep sight ( so 4 have been left with original sights, and the 5th rifle has a modified open sight [chopped the top off an aftermarket peep sight and squared up the sides]). and BTW I kept the original peep sight and it can be re-fitted to the rifle.
