1951 C-124 disappearance 

I apologize for the audio issues.

My father, Captain Robert K Kampert was on that plane. Thank you for doing this.

Just for fun, Walker Air Force Base was previously known as Roswell Army Airfield. Yes, THAT Roswell.

I worked on C124 aircraft in the late 60s as a flightline aircraft mechanic in the NH ANG. The old girl kept you busy with maintenance but she could still get the job done, although I was happy when we transitioned to the C130

My father flew a C-124 into Saigon during the Vietnam War. He was in the Air Force Reserves and these flights were part of his monthly reserve duty. Our parents never told us that our father was flying into a war zone. I first learned about the flights when I found a newspaper account from 1967. At the time the article was written, I was eight-years old. Around that time, the Reserve held an event for the public and I was able to walk through the plane my dad flew. It was huge! I had no idea that the type of plane he flew was unreliable.

I used to live in Maine. My dad helped load that plane. He has now passed away. But what he and other men always thought was one of the onboard heaters caught on fire , because the heaters were made of magnesium. Ring a bell ? Ricky Nelson's DC+3 had the same thing happen. Hair spray caught fire and ignited the magnesium heater. Good job on the history friend. And God Bless those lost souls and their families.🙏🇺🇸

Even history covered over by continued secrecy deserves to be remembered.

The sad fact is that then as now, a large aircraft can disappear over water without a trace. We assume that our military is always knowledgeable about such incidents but the truth is they simply don't know everything and when something like this happens they are at a loss as to the explanation or how to deal with the public.

Dad was stationed at Altus AFB from about 1954 till January 1962. I recall seeing an occasional C-54 departing and noticing how SLOW it flew. Dad was a boom operator on the KC-97 and later the Kc-135.

The ending credits with the names and music was very well done.

My brother-in-law, Who a retired USAF officer, flew C-124s in the mid 50s time frame. He and his Wife are in their mid 90s and are metally active. He has told me about thrilling stories like, loosing an engine just after taking off from islands in the Pacific. I am a retired USAF E8 First Sergeant. I will ask him did hear hear about the disapperance of this C-124.

As I mentioned in another comment, I personally worked on Lockheed C-130 Hercules aircraft in the US Navy and then the US Coast Guard. With that experience, it SOMEWHAT AMAZES ME that aircraft like the C-124, and the C-54 and C-47 earlier during the Berlin Airlift, were able to HAUL all the stuff they hauled while being powered by radial {reciprocating} engines. One of the IMPRESSIVE THINGS about the C-130 Hercules in the 1950s was the improved power-to-weight ratio afforded by turboprops {gas turbine engines driving propellers}.

I remember C-124s (Old Shaky) coming over our school in Memphis coming from the Memphis airport. . The Tennessee Air Guard wing, that I eventually joined, lost a C-124 in 1972. That plane had a long career...The C-124 had a bit part in the old comedy, "Weekend Warriors"...

Such an enduring mystery. I have watched the episode 3 or 4 times, but every time, it becomes even more mysterious.

Love your RU-vid videos. This one just sounds like ytou are recording your voice from the back of the room. Great video by the way. Bravo Zulu from New Zealand!

As usual, an excellent story. I'd like to point out one slight visual error; at 1:02 into the video, there is an image of a C-123 Provider, a much smaller twin-engine cargo plane that did not enter USAF service until 1956.

My dad was career AF too. He retired after 26 years of active duty in 1972. (as CMSG) His duty assignments with AFRTS were: 1949-50 Roswell AFB ( I was born in Boston) 1951-54 Loring AFB {kindergarten), (Lived in Presque Isle) 1955-1957 Ramey AFB (1st to 3rd grade) 1958-1961 Offutt AFB (4th to 6th) 1962-1965 Loring AFB (7th to 9th) Kennedy Assassination 1965 -1966 Clark AFB (10th plus) 1967-1968/69 Andrews AFB (11th to 12th) One of the assignments was to Ramey AFB (Puerto Rico) 1956/ 57/ 58, a Strategic Air Command (SAC). At that time he worked as a TV engineer with the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service (AFRTS). There were times when B-52s from Loring AFB (Maine) deployed to Ramey AFB on various missions and had some spare time. I think this was before Chrome Dome was actually in full operation. There were also times when B-36s and C-124s rotated through the base. We did have one bad accident that I recall from that time. Our house looked out over the start of the runway and hanger area. One of the B-52s moved to its position at the start of the runway and began to accelerate. We could hear it reach take-of speed and then lift off, followed by a large explosion. The crash happened right over an empty playground and melted the steel swing sets and slides. The crew were all lost and remain in our memories. Regards

My dad was assigned to the 509th three years after this incident. Information is super compartmentalized in these strategic units. The average airman or technician has no idea what's going on, big picture. I feel bad for those guys who probably never knew what was happening or why.

Something is wrong with the audio. Like we're hearing it from a microphone too far from the speaker.

509th Special Weapons Bomber Group was the FIRST bomb unit assigned as a nuclear force. That's why they were in the middle of New Mexico where the nuclear bombs were. This story has many of the earmarks of a Soviet assassination. The flares deployed might well have been from a Soviet submarine looking for whatever it could find after such a hit.

Their service is much appreciated. my condolences to the family. I hope they can learn the truth they deserve.

Awesome! The article you are referencing in the Pampa News was written by me. I am still in contact with Walter peterson’s daughter, Marilyn and I still have access to all the the documents I referenced if you are interested in ever following this story up. Thanks for sharing!!

Dead people don't shoot flares, but what someone thought was a flare may not have been one.

this plane had a collapsable fire pole at the flight deck. One day the pin was pulled to test the two-section escape pole. With no warning, it struck and instantly killed a young airman working below in the head.Poles were then removed from all planes.

Thanks THG. I've never heard of a C-124 and I'm familiar with a LOT of aircraft. Outstanding presentation as always. Another one saved to playlist.

The Soviet intercept theory strikes me as being preposterous for a host of reasons, not the least of which is the impossibility of arranging a controlled crash in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean in the middle of the night. An accident is a much more plausible theory. During this same time period my Dad was aboard a C-124 in Alaska. He was a young Air Force B-29 engine mechanic heading home on leave when one of the massive Pratt & Whitney R4360 radial engines caught fire. Dad quickly donned his parachute in anticipation of a bailout over the rugged terrain, but an old master sergeant told him to settle down and let the crew handle it. Sure enough, the pilot was able to smother the flames and they continued on to their destination using the power of the remaining three engines. Dad was always wary of Globemasters after than (not that the B-29 was any safer or reliable). Whatever the cause of their demise, may God grant them eternal peace.

Old Shakey was its' nickname. Our local ANG flew them for several years..

Nice documentary, during the late 50s or early 60s a globe master over eastern quebec or Labrador caught fire and everyone bailed out , after the fire extinguished itself it bellylanded in the tundra . My father was on a flight north with the minister of transport when a call came over the radio by a pilot that discovered the plane .I have never been able to find any information on this incident

RIP. Prayers for them, their families, their friends

The hymn at the end hits me right in the heart. Thought are with the crew’s family. Having lost a loved one in a C-130 crash I can tell you that there is honesty issues were the USAF was involved. With the incident (my loved one was in) the AF told families one thing. Later the Senate Intelligence investigations showed a completely different story. We were told the crash sight was in deep water that was un accessible. The reality was the crash was sitting in shallow water and interfering with local boat traffic. They claimed that all 14 crew members remains had been recover though not all identified. When in reality only 4 of the 14 we’re ever recovered. The AF did there own investigation of the incident and did not get a second opinion done by another branch or agency. The likelihood that some of the crew made it off the plane still haunts my family. It leave me cold to think they might have even been captured and later died in enemy hands. It is a truly haunting feeling to not get answers. You are not forgotten.

Sounds like the inspiration for Clive Cussler's novel "Vixen 03".

Please fix the audio asap.😢

The ocean is a big, unforgiving place. Not an attractive plane

Hey Lance, better check your microphone batteries. Audio was a bit muddy on this one, but what’s important is your content as always is great!

In the military, whenever there is an incident, there is a coverup.

I lost a friend on a C 124, the problem with the aircraft was that it had the glide ratio of a house-brick and without two engines became impossible to fly. This meant if there was a catastrophic engine failure that took out the adjacent engine, the aircraft would auger-in immediately.

If this was a Broken Arrow incident I can see it being kept secret at the time, but why still keep that secret over 70 years later, when the US has admitted to many other such incidents?

509th they dropped the atom bombs on Japan. Finished it's career at Pease AFB flying F111B, still nuclear armed. Life in the North Atlantic in the water in winter was measured in minutes.

The audio is from 1951

My first friend ever used to live in Guam and the Azores in the 1980s, when his step-dad fixed KC10's. They eventually got transferred here, to the base next to Shreveport LA that this Globemaster stopped at, called Barksdale AFB, and he lived behind me. He's gone now. Passed away some years ago from a brain bleed from MMA. I hadn't seen him in a long time at that point. A decade or more.

A possible bomb reminds me of United Airlines flight 23, victim of a bomb. On the night of 9/30/33, over Chesterton Indiana, the plane exploded and killed all aboard, 3 crew and 4 passengers. It remains today an unsolved crime. The FBI was unable to develop a suspect or even a motive. This event needs to be remembered as the first documented bombing of a passenger airliner.

In the 1960s, a number of C-124s dumped into the Pacific. It seemed engine bushings wore out too soon. The Army called it the Crashmaster.

I appreciate your tribute at the end of the video to the men who perished on that flight

In 1959, a Globemaster crashed here IN SHREVEPORT, LA after takeoff with atomic weapons on board. They had the area protected by men with automatic rifles and ended up burying the wreckage where it landed. They kept it a secret for over 50 years after that. You can read all about it. Happened in Louisiana in 1959.

What happened to the 1951 missing C-124 "distress notes" and where were they found?

Another intriguing story to tell would be the Kinross Incident on Nov 23rd 1953 over Lake Superior.

History Guy, thanks for a balanced treatment of this incident. While the disappearance seems mysterious due to the presence of the Brigadier General and the association with the nuclear unit, the reality is that accidents and even disappearances over the oceans were much more common in the pre-GPS/SATCOM days, particularly given the comparative unreliability of piston engines, greater susceptibility to weather when flying at lower altitudes, etc. Even *if* the reports of the crew evacuating the C-124 and boarding life boats are accurate (and I appreciate that you did additional research and didn't accept this claim at face value), it's entirely plausible that they could have gotten swamped etc. prior to rescue arriving...without need Soviets as an explanation.

There's a file in Washington that details exactly what happened. You are just not in the 'Big Club'.

Suggest get the records of the passengers. Their job descriptions might give a clue.

49-0258 - C-124A is on static display at the Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover Air Force Base near Dover, Delaware. Talking to an ex-crew chief who was a docent during an open cockpit day. He was of the view that most Globemaster losses - including the one you mention in this video (and there were MANY). The thing simply shook itself to pieces. Oh they were lost in different phases of flight which meant there were different reasons given - but basically it was a huge, slow box with 4 vibrating engines and vibration won out - more often than not.

Thank you Mr History Guy! What about the History that’s best forgotten?

Wow! Just wow! How many more years (decades?) until the documents are declassified.

My best guess is that they were carrying atomic bomb components and something went wrong...The so called "demon core" (the pit of an atomic bomb) had already killed two people. The possibility that one or more crewmen took the plane to the USSR is kind of farfetched, but maybe not impossible.

Please re-record the audio when a mike fails. I expect that from this channel.

With respect, those high value crew members knew what they were signing up for when they shook that clammy alien hand.

MH-370 Aviation and conspiracy theories old and new. A vast ocean is usually a common denominator to them. Over land? Can’t think of one.

If you haven't done it already, how about the story of the tragic death of Roberto Clemente and his attempt to fly supplies to the Caribbean in an old cargo plane in a hurricane, resulting in his death?

My mother (RIP) told me a bizarre story about a friend of hers. She said that she was engaged to an Airman assigned to the 509th Bomb Wing in Roswell. He cancelled a date with her, and told her he was assigned to a mission that he could say nothing about. He told her not to worry and he would see her in a week or so. This was around 1950 or so. He told her he loves her and see her soon. That was the last time she ever heard from her fiance ever again. She begged for information from the Air Force, whoever she could talk to, even the Governor of New Mexico at the time. Anything to tell her what happened to her fiance. She later married, had a family and a normal life. She died in 2017. But sadly? She died never knowing what happened to her fiance. They wouldn't even tell her the flight existed. Many thought he just dumped her and moved on with his life but.......They wouldn't even confirm that he was a pilot, that he even was assigned to the 509th. Nothing. As someone who was also assigned to the 509th Bomb Wing in the 90s, there are "stories" about aircraft who just disappear and are not only ever found, but are often denied to have even existed. The Air Force doesn't like it's personnel to mention some of these "incidences" and basically "shut up and do what you have been ordered to do". But for all those brave men and women who have given their lives and never were either found, or never identified, thank you for all you have done. And thank you to the content creator for giving these brave men the mention they deserve!!

Lots of twists and turns on this one

Great vid and history. More airmen were shot down and taken to Soviet Russia than we could ever know - mostly from recon missions, but this possibility for the C-124 must be considered.

I can’t really hear this one. Can you please redo the narration/audio. This one is especially interesting to me, as my dad was a C-124 mechanic at Travis, during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

It was a bit of a shock to hear the words "Barksdale Air Force Base" as I was driving past the flightline on Barksdale Air Force Base.

The simplest and most common reason a plane goes totally missing, especially back in those times when aircraft weren’t as reliable as we have today in 2023; Is this the most likely. A total breakup, engine malfunction, weather, or something not extraordinary.

😔😢🤔God Bless those lost in a tumultuous time. Cold War indeed.

The name though spelt Ruslip is pronounced Rye -Slip. The base was a non flying base and US AF headquarters in England from 1949 till 1972. the base is near RAF Northolt, now the UK major stratigic C3 establishmnet.

Excellent video, as always, History Dude! My guess would be that 1) they were actually carrying a nuke and the Air Force knows exactly what happened to the plane but isn't saying, or 2) they were carrying a nuke that exploded, obliterating any big piece of wreckage. In any event, it's doubtful that the plane would make a controlled ditching without notifying at least one of the relay ships along the way. Lots of stuff happened back in the days before flight data recorders, cockpit voice recorders, and the technology to track and locate aircraft crossing the oceans. Sometimes, things happen that we'll just never know the details of. Sad.

I read that the C-124 was used to transfer Thor rockets to Europe. As a kid, I remember when the air force retired the planes. Thanks!

Too many questions without answers on this one... As an aside. I grew up in the 50's and 60's living quite adjacent to Santa Monica Airport, the 'home' location of Douglas Aircraft, its plant situated on the north side of the airport property. The airport would see occasional 'visits' by a C-124. I remember one crash-landing on the runway when it was too low on the approach and left main landing gear hit the embankment on the east end of the airport property, snapping the gear off.

Yep, Douglas through and through.

Please make an episode about the history of analytical testing equipment used in Pharma and enviro testing. history of HPLC, ion exchange, PCR etc etc coupled with manufacturing of pharma pills. Thank you

I have long wondered about that metal from a US bomb found among the debris. It could very well be the true mission of the B-29 "SAR" aircraft was actually to destroy all floating debris from the ditching. "Valise" rhymes with "police."

What Air Force rank is ‘Bbr’ that is listed next to two of the names?

I wild guess is they were shot down by mistake and a massive coverup since. Those were tricky times internationally.

There are a couple of interesting flight engineer's accounts of operating the C-124 in Graham White's book on the Pratt&Whitney R-4360, which powered it...

This flight is still classified so to speak . What happened to this flight was not a crash . The plane went to Russia . It was a never return mission . The U>s> government ( Republican Party ) sold Russians Nuclear systems . It was to go on into Russia . The Crew members never knew it until it was to late . The aircraft was intercepted by 6 Russian migs and excourted to Russia . So what happened to the crew . Russia did their will to them . They ether was killed right their and then or was sent to a work camp to die working . Not before they spill the beans . So how do I knw this !!!!! Government history . What our government was doing at the time . The start just after WW2 with Germany . Russia could have taken all of Europe . It would make sense if they did . But the BIG Deal all governments made with Russia and this included with the Nuclear Bombs that was droped on Japan . Russia wanted that and europe wanted to be free from Russia . This is also why our government had to get rid of MacArthur . MacArthur wanted to get Russia also . He wanted us to drop Nuclear bumbs on Russia . He knew Russia government are bad group of people . The people of Russia was so brain washed that their is no possable hope for them ether . But Russia had one good thing and that was oils Natural gas and a vast amount of land to cover . It would be a real world war not like it was taking Germany from Hitler .

Semper Fidelis for your support and Respect for our fallen members of the military ooorah Lance Bravo Zulu

Most annoying audio, gradually declining audio suddenly interrupted by edited loud insertes

That's a lot of brass on that flight. Something doesn't add up.

@TheHistoryGuyChannel >>> ANOTHER interesting USAF aircraft you could cover, if you have not done so already, is the _"Douglas C-133 Cargomaster."_ I worked around Lockheed C-130 Hercules aircraft in both the USN and USCG. Having ONLY seen _photographs_ of Cargomasters, especially in the pre-internet days, I thought they were some kind of MODIFIED Hercules. Several years ago I first visited the US Air Force's AIR MOBILITY COMMAND MUSEUM at Dover AFB, and got to see a Cargomaster in person for the first time. The C-133 Cargomaster is BIGGER than a C-130 Hercules! The Cargomaster was actually the forerunner of the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, and AFAIK the C-133 was the LARGEST turboprop ever operated by the USAF.

Love your show, sound quality is very lacking recently. Thanks

,,, the '29, had plenty range, helpful when you are searching the North Atlantic. ,,, there was a C-124 on the flight line at Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls TX, in 1965 .

Going by the Soviet theory, shooting the plane down with a missile would be pointless and that leaves two other possibilities; the first being the aircraft being sabotaged on US soil to go down after a certain number of hours flying. That way soviet ships or subs could be waiting. The second being the plane being deliberately brought down by a soviet agent(s) on board the aircraft.

The airplane at 1:38 is a C-130...

Sound is off when you're off screen 😊

Thank you for their names. They are people's ancestors. The not knowing is the worst. The human mind is a trove of imagination. Many scary, and awful things can be dreamed up. I believe they were taken prisoner by the Russian sub. It's truly sad.

So sad

What an eerie story. I liked that you listed the names. I didn’t go back and review, but it seemed to me the ratio of officers and enlisted men seemed heavy on the officer side. If that is true it seems very unusual to me, but I can’t imagine what it portends. Listing the names calls to mind Woody Guthrie’s song, Reuben James, where he asks “what was their names? Tell me. What was their names? Did you have a friend on the Good Rueben James? One line says a Nazi U Boat “laid the Reuben James on the cold ocean floor.” That song gives me shivers and tears. We weren’t even in the war yet, but we were providing escort service to Atlantic convoys. I believe the Reuben James was the first American war ship sunk. Those gutsy little destroyers from the Atlantic to the Pacific, were always ready and able. On a different note. After WWII some guys bought surplus planes and started up 2 plane companies in England. One was I believe BOAC. I think the planes were called Comets and maybe were early jets. The Comets had bad luck, lots of crashes. I’ve seen two documentaries on it. One crashed in the Mediterranean I believe, but it was observed and wreckage and bodies found. One was making a flight in S. America and disappeared over the Andes. Never found. No wreckage found. Big mystery for like 50 years. And then some ranchers or farmhands found a big chunk of wreckage that appeared to be an engine. They didn’t make much of it, but gradually word got to officials who sent men up to see and it was an engine. They recognized what kind, I don’t remember all details, and copied numbers and it was identified as from the missing plane. So the UK sent search parties and eventually the fuselage was found. Remains were in and around it. They thought it had crashed way up in the ice and snow line and probably caused an avalanche, which totally buried the plane which was why no one spotted it from the air. The engine had probably been moving down some every year due to weight and snow melt. There had been like 12 passengers, pilot and copilot and 1 or 2 stewardesses. I don’t think they found all the bodies, but identified those they did. The documentary interviewed three women whose uncle had been on it, I think. They didn’t remember him that well, but remembered how upset their mother and grandmother had been at never knowing. I would love it if you could do a segment about the Comets and this one in particular. Thank you. Have you ever covered the Lady Be Good? Another fascinating mystery solved after years. Love your shows! ❤ P.S. NEVER fly over the Andes. Go by mule or on foot. Or sail around Cape Horn to get to the west coast. It might take longer, but you won’t be a 50 year mystery, probably. I guess you could fall in a crevasse, so be careful, especially of the mule. Humans should assume responsibility for any animals they take into dangerous situations. The armed forces are very Need to Know on what they risk dogs for; although, truth be told, most people wouldn’t care. I care. 10 MILLION horses were shipped to Europe for WWI and 10 million horse died. Army administration, wanting to recoup their purchase price had them butchered, obviously not the ones who died in early years, but enough. The meat was shipped back to North America and that was the start of commercial canned dog food.

Nothing new here. On 2 separate deployments we had some things happen we were told did not happen. We talked about them in our berthing compartment and that was the extent of it. Nothing was ever entered into the ships log regarding the events.

Mr History Guy (Lance?) I’m going to watch this later (of course!) but just remembered something that I wanted to tell you. We’ve noticed due to your oft subject matter you say “bombardment” a lot. Whenever we hear that we yell back “Bombardment!!” Like when the P.E. Teacher in The Simpsons throws balls at the kids in dodgeball!😅 Really enjoy your channel. Silly fact: when I was in the 8th grade I received the DAR award for best grades in history!😂

Pronunciation helper here Ruislip is pronounced like rice-slip. Great video as usual.

I wonder if more could be done with who the passengers were. God’s mercy upon them

You’ve fallen into one of our many pronunciation traps! Ruislip is pronounced Rye-slip!

It’s so sad we can’t believe a word our government provides in all cases.

Time the detonation of an incendiary bomb, without the force to destroy the plane but enough to force ditching in the sea, at a prearranged location? That alone doesn't seem plausible then there'd have to be rendezvous with a Russian ship or ships undetected while a search is underway. That would have had to have been one seriously stealthy precision operation by the Russians

I can't help but wonder if this crash had anything to do with Operation Hurricane, or the upcoming Project Emily?

@1:33 that is an early model C-130 Hercules in the fly-by.

I believe the aircraft at 1:35 is a C-130.

Riminds me of the Swedish DC-3 that crashd about the same time in the balltic sea

You showed TWO different aircraft. Which one was the C54?

SHREVEPORT! WOOOO! THAT'S MY CITY!