In the late 60's the guy that owned the local Gulf station had a 64 Catalina with a 421, 4 speed and it was quite fast for a big car. It came off the line better than the smaller muscle cars and had more torque.
Our church took a road trip back in 1965 and we drove our own vehicles, I think there were 4 or 5 cars going on that trip, I was 2nd in line and had to follow a middle aged family man who had a new '65 Bonneville with the 421 and a 4 spd. I had a '60 Chevy Impala with a factory 4 bbl carb 283, dual exhausts and 3 on the tree. by the time we reached the end of the trip my Chevy's tongue was hanging out just trying to stay up with that 421. Seems like the 421 was just crusing effortlessly along but Lordy, he could have left us in the dust anytime he chose if he wanted to.
I saw Hayden Proffitt drive the two Mickey Thompson 421 Catalinas in wild "Race what you brung" races in NC near Charlotte, in the early 60's (likely 1962). The 2 cars polished off the field of locals and ran some very low ET's for the day. Everyone was burning Nitro. Some of the local cars also ran very fast, just not fast enough. For a guy who only knew racers by the NHRA rule book, I was astounded.
In fact the 421 super duty might be the baddest engine ever put into ANY muscle car of that era. Saw a bone stock 421sd crank out 488 horsepower on a dyno....BONE STOCK!!! That is on the level of the Chrysler 426 Hemi, Ford R-CODE 427, and Chevy L88 and ZL1 427s. Those in my opinion, are the TOP TIER muscle car engines of that era
None of these engines were good at all for everyday street use, but if you were buying a car just to bring straight to the drag strip then nothing tops these. Can't leave out the 413 and 426 Max Wedge Chrysler engines either. Man were they fast
SD 421’s were a great engine in in a heavy Catalina but could not overcome the Mopar weight advantage you get with either a 413/426 Max Wedge in a 62 or 63 Savoy or Dart.
I don't know what you call it. But a friend of mine back in the day had a 65 GTO with a 389 his dad bored and stroked to a 421 2-4bbl..... Had a cam that would sit and play Van Halen Hot for teacher. Would burn 3.90 posi through all 4 gears as fast as a chainsaw would rev to top end... Granted that was just with something like a 60 series wide oval tire. But still it was a well tuned machine. Didn't overheat and was a good street mannered car... If you call an engine screaming at people through the gears mannered...
A standard '63 Catalina weighed in at between 3600 and 3800lbs, about the same as a 69 GTO. A lightened S.D, Catalina was about 100 to 200lbs lighter and a "Swiss Cheese" Catalina was 200lbs lighter than that. The cars were physically large but weren't nearly as heavy as people assume. If this Catalina was a real S.D. or an accurate clone then it was at least 100 to 200lbs lighter than the GTO and since the goat had hideaway lights I'm assuming it wasn't the lightest one out there.
@@johntempest267 Have you ever seen the 421 S.D. vs 409 dual quad shoot out on RU-vid? The engines were built as close to production as possible. The 421 even had a blueprint Mekellar #10 cam. The 421, rated at 405hp, made an actual 488hp. Of course it had headers and no accessories. All that with only 2.02/1.62 valves. Now that's a heck of an engine!
@@1967davethewave I think I remember seeing that showdown. If I remember correctly, it didn't end well for the bowtie. The claim 70 HP over the Ram air IV was only a wild guestimation, what say you?
@@johntempest267 I truly don't know. The Ram Air IV had some definite advantages with better heads but the 421 was a race engine with no regards for street manors. I'd say you are probably pretty close with your guesstimate. I know I love both of them but the 421 is often over shadowed by race Hemi's, cammer Fords and even the 409. Even though it was the baddest thing at the track in '62/'63!
We had a 63 SD 421 Catalina. I had no idea it was a hot rod although I do know it was very fast for a family car. I was very young and bought it from an elder who had it sitting in a garage.
Memories are what they are, but highly doubt that your had one of the insanely small number of true Super Duty cars made in 63. You had a 421...ok, but SD was a RACE ENGINE you would have known, trust me.
One of the quickest Pontiacs from that era was a 1968 Firebird with a Ram Air 2...those engines produced around 440 horsepower but advertised far less.
The Ram Air II actually dyno'd around 350 horsepower or so, no way a stocker put out anywhere near 440.. The Ram Air IV actually put out a little more than 400 hp, though. STILL nowhere near 440.
Bob Silver, my brother had a RAII 68 Firebird. That car was freakin amazing. He added headers, better intake and holley carb and 3.91 rear gears. I was with him when he took out many of the "heavy hitters" from 'back in the day'. He set that car up to come out of the hole and VERY few caught him by the end of the predetermined 'spot' which was about a 1/4 mile. That car pulled like a freight train and many accused him of running a 428 or 455. Awww the memories......
They did. That is, in Jim Wanger's Car and Driver test car, a '65 Goat. Also, as I understand it, Royal Pontiac would put on in as one of the engine choices for the Bobcat.
@@bobthbldr3 I did look it up and from what I found you are correct. Infact the Catalina has five or six hundred pounds on the Goat. Of course I'm sure that can vary a little depending on how either car came equipped.
I am guessing the '63 has a 4.56 or lower rear gear ? and the '69 has a 3.73 ? . The '63 left harder and with it's weight , it would love a serious gear . I dig them both but I would rather have the '63 , I love the older ones the most . My Mom had a '63 Catalina 4 door with a 389 , and my bro had a '62 2 door Catalina , I loved them both .
Ram Air IV had two rear ratios available, 3.91 or 4.30 with 4.11 being available dealer installed. The GTO probably weighed in between 3600 and 3800lbs while a Catalina coupe, especially if it was a real or cloned S.D. would only weigh in at around 3300 to 3500lbs. It might have been physically larger but there was more metal put in the GTO to stiffen up the structure.
I prefer videos that clearly post the ET's, I'm guessing they were both in the 12's. I had a RA IV 400 in a '80 Trans Am with a 4 speed and 3:73 gears back in the 90's. My best ET was a 12:72
Great video..I seem to remember from my youth..a 64 Bonneville with a 421 and 3 2bbl carbs called a 2+2..did they make such a car?? or do I have it wrong..Thanks ..Dave .......Dual exhaust also...Automatic with shift on column also bucket seats...
@@dansmusic5749 Hi Dan,,Thanks ,,this was definetly a Bonneville ..it was a 64..I loved all the 61-64 GMs so im sure i have the year right..Thanks again..Dave
@@DHgtr1 What makes you think it was a Bonneville? Bonnevilles had the long wheelbase. I have never heard of such a car. I don't need to be right, just curious. You do know, of course, the 2+2 had an upgraded interior?
@@dansmusic5749 Hi Dan..im sure it was a Bonneville..a 64..tho it may b 63...it had interior like a Gran Prix..but the shift was on the column tho it had bucket seats and console..it was the only one I ever saw Thanks ..Dave
I actually was a Part Time Pontiac Car salesman in 1964 while I went to college. The 2+2 was not a Bonneville, but was a deluxe trim package for the Catalina. The 421 tri power engine was an option on any big body Pontiac. The big Indians ran quite well, and the public bought the cars.
Another thing depending on what gears the judge came with my dads has 433s ordered special package out the hole it will jump you two car before you realize what happened
The Catalonia weight about the same as the GTO. It seems odd, because the Catalonia is bigger, but most of the weight on a car body is in the corners. Down the center of the body, and in the middle, there isn't a lot of weight. The Catalonia was a post car, and a stripped down model
@@kevinmanning4880 dont recall that the Ram V being a production motor , what I do know is the 421SD 🏁 will tear up a Ram IV. I think you would agree 👍
They were available. Royal Pontiac ran a Super Duty with them. Most didn't because I think they were actually a little heavier than steel wheels and standard brake drums. They were pretty expensive and didn't have any advantage. They only came in one size which I think was 14 by 6 inches.
It's my understanding that the 8 lug and the Super Duty 421 went hand in hand. Also the 8 lug was part of the 2+2 package. The 8 lugs were supposed to provide more braking area by using the entire inside of the wheel hub for the braking surface. Please Correct me if I have it wrong.
