1973 Allis Chalmers 16mm film used at the Las Vegas dealers meeting showing the new 7030 tractor and how it compares to the John Deere 4430, and International Farmall 1066.
Neat video, at times I feel like I'm watching a silent picture though. Each manufacturer has advantages/disadvantages. I drove a 7030 quite a few years ago doing different tasks, pretty good tractor in it's own right.
Those JD cabs were a good decade ahead of their time, these Allis cabs sucked. I spent weeks nine on our Allis 8550, which was a beast of a machine, a bit light compared to Steiger, so traction say pulling the DMI 12 furrow there was a good deal of spin. 12 bottom plow is not fun, 1 word, headlands
I help my buddy a lot driving his 4755. Except for the 15 speed Power Shift I still prefer the 7000 series. Just as quiet and more leg room and room for a kid to sit just to the left of the seat where they can fall asleep. Still room for a lunch box, tools and a log chain if needed.
AC designed a lot of good into that series of tractors, and they held up well over the years. I had a chuckle over the front weights. Goig back to the 20 series, I don't think anyone ever worried about weights on a JD. The engines didn't lug hard enough to need them. The older Deere engines had power, like they were rated for, there was no lie there- but once you hit that limit they lugged and quickly just lost rpm and power. Compared to an old Case, or these AC's, pretty sure there was never really a need to adjust the front weights on a JD, you just put one or two one if you really thought you needed them and left it at that, because the JD was either going to pull the load or it wasn't. I think that changed a bit in the 40 series, especially the bigger ones. But in the early 70's unless you had a tractor you stuck an aftermarket turbo on, the JD hardly needed weights. The rest, eh a mixed bag. Like everything from the 60's and 70's, each manufacturer had pros and cons and while AC had some innovations, they had a some flaws too, but same for IH, Case, JD, White etc. A lot of it came down to dealer service and who was in your area, and who would work on finance with you. JD set up finance options way before anyone else, and became a dominate force that way starting in the early 60's, regardless of the tractor's merits. When things got tight going into the 80's, they all basically merged or folded, or cut corners or otherwise to get through those few years of terrible economy. JD was able to lean on it's international market to get through. IH couldn't overcome the problems and merged with Case/David Brown. AC couldn't overcome, and eventually AGCO, which absorbed DOZENS of companies over the next decade, sucked up AC too(and White, and more others then I could count off here) Ford managed to distribute enough money around to keep it's AG dept. running, and actually became a big player going into the 90's, especially after the NH merger. Nowdays, everything is international sourced for international markets and none of the companies have a true identity, no one should be loyal to a paint color based on past reputation at this point, but more so for what they offer now. People should be looking at features and cost of ownership more then a nameplate.
Other than one mis-spent spring with an AC tractor I didn't deal to much with them. Like I said in another reply I wasn't to impressed. Fast forward 40 years and I live in North Central Iowa, talking to friends at church who farm they tell me the better dealer here in town was the AC guy, a lot of them used AC equipment. One such admits that there were issues but "keep an eye on the harmonic balancer when they de-laminate you break the crank and don't run it against the governor stop" He also claims to have "adjust his tractors by turning up the fuel screw and backing off on the RPMs'. He's still running a few AC tractors but he admits they started parking some green ones in the barn about 10 years ago. As far as the dealer ship all three are gone the where the AC dealer was is the corporate offices for a truck body and crane manufacturer, the IH dealer is an independent repair shop that is occasionally open and I'm not sure where the Deere dealer was I suspect it's where they build garbage trucks now or maybe where the grain equipment dealer is
@@fk4515 Backing off the rpm only applies to the 7080 and 7580 tractors. That is two models. Once that is done they are reliable again. Allis 7000 series IMO had the best for their time, rear ends and transmissions including both the Power Shift and the Power Director. I've worked on both Deere and AC spending time as a mechanic in an Allis shop and as a partsman at a CaseIH shop. At mechanics school we set a Power Shift unit from each an Allis and a Deere and there was just no comparison in heft. Allis 7000 series were heavier in every way than the Deere 30 series. IH .... well, they have great engines with the 400 series engine but until the Magnum came along I'd look for almost any other tractor to farm with other than the big Molines which were terrible.
Your kidding about weights on a 4430 right? You put a 6 bottom plow on it and just try it! Anything other than sand and your in trouble even with a full rack plowing alfalfa the front end would float quite often! You must’ve not driven them much!
@@FarmerTed Nah, we just gave up using Deeres for tillage work because they sucked at it. We rented a 4430 for two harvest seasons, both because our 4020 was in the shop with transmission and hydraulic issues. Once for a fall tillage, once. Basically, the 4020 would have a slightly easier time doing work our David Brown 1200 could do but used more then double the diesel. The 4430 was a comfortable nice tractor to run for PTO work like the chopper, we used it on the haybine(overkill) a couple times. Then we got it to do tillage because my Dad liked it enough he was thinking about buying one, and we found out it burned fuel like mad doing heavy pulling even on just our spring tooth drag and was barely better then our heavily weighted 1030 on the plow. Maybe somebody futzed with the fuel settings, maybe it needed more weight on the drive wheels, but it was dissapointing to say the least. Some years later we tried a MFWD 40 series tractor, was somwhere around 90 horse, and that tractor did a nice job with pretty much anything we asked of it. I forget the model of that one but we used it twice, the second time I think Dad offered to buy it from the dealer but they wanted too much $$. Maybe it was our soil type or whatever, but around here everyone used Case or IH to do tillage and bought JD to use for chore tractors, with a few Olivers mixed in(and then Whites). In the 70's AC had a solid representation too, but our local dealer folded up by the late 70's and a lot of guys just ran their AC's into the ground(lots of 185's around us that way) because they couldn't use them for key work any more because a failure meant shipping the thing to a private shop or a dealer 110 miles away. Anyway, we didn't own a 4430 for 20 years or anything, but we got to compare it to quite a few of it's competitors that we tried over the years. Back then you had enough competition you could pick a tractor for it's strengths to do certain work and pick a different one to do chores or harvest. We used the 4430 to run the chopper and stuck our 1030 on the blower and ran wagons with a David Brown 1200, and/or the 4020. And the 4430 did a nice job there.
davenhla, We were lucky to be in an area that had many good dealers in the 70’s our neighbors on one side were strictly IH, we were mostly JD and my mother’s family were die hard Ford. My best friends family were all Case. I was lucky to grow up and drive them all. They all have pluses, but for our ground with sand in the river bottoms to clay and black ground around our home place a properly weighted 4430 beat them all. Case/MM had good motors but A/c usually out and too heavy for quicksand ground. IH were my second favorite but T/A on the 1086/1586 usually needed work every few years of heavy tillage. The fords were okay but never held up and rebuild required block removal. I’ve never been around AC tractors so I’ve got only what others say to go by, but in the 70’s I’d put those 30 series JD up against anything and resale today would help prove my point. Until we got the first JD 8400 it was my favorite. Although we had a 4650 mfwd for 25 years that was a great tractor but cumbersome.
Used ih and still am using ih but when he took the side sheet of the AC versus the ih got me thinking the AC looks to be better in almost every way compared to ih
As a guy who grew up on a Deere farm (mostly 30-50 series) and who then rebelled and bought an IH 1486 and 5088, I've always been impressed with A-C's designers... That low mount fuel tank and reversible PTO are pretty much standards today, and the cabs on the A-C 8000s were a solid 10 years ahead of everything else (I can't speak to the 7000s other than I feel they look weird). But, I've read that around this time management decided to start milking depreciation on their machine tooling rather than keep it current. I suspect that's the root of the... Inconsistent... Reputation later A-Cs had for reliability. A shame really, I have my favorite color, and it isn't orange, but it's clear to me they employed some people with some good ideas
@@joshbergellin5096 And it's a feature on my two red horses that I'm keen to remind my brother of every time his 4450 throws a hissy fit getting the snap ring back in when we need to swap shafts. But, for whatever reason, the industry never cottoned on to the merits of the IH system, and I will credit AC with vastly exceeding the JD system of the 10-50 series, and credit to later Deere's for at least not wasting so much oil and pretty much cribbing AC's notes
Hi. Beautiful video. Greatings from Hungary, east Europe. We don't have Allis Chalmers tractors here. Many years we used only Russian tractors, what was cheap, simple, easy to fix, with cheap parts. There was two kind of main tractor, one of them was 50, the other one was 80 hp. Present days the rich farmers has JD as well, yes definitelly they are amazing UFO-s. But what is the situation in USA? There are many kind of tractors there. Which is the best brand there? Can somebody give me answer please?
There's really only 3 big brands and their branches off of that. Its pretty much, John deere, case/newholland, and agco. They are all about the same quality, its really just personal preference
Perplexing to me too. Must have been a 70's thing like orange counter tops and burnt orange kitchen appliances and shag carpet living rooms (all things I grew up with). The combination of orange and maroon is something that must grow on you because it's not an immediate eye catcher by any means. IMO the black belly Allis tractors were the best looking tractors of the 1970's. Duals, stadium lights, front suitcase weights and the air stack all shining is a sight to behold. Only outdone by the 88 series IH in 1981-82.
Air conditioning was an option so removing the windows was a good alternative. Dad, back in 1978, bought a new Allis cab when Allis was selling off old inventory to make room for the new Accousta II cab and he put it on his old 190XT with no A.C.. We removed the windows and door nearly every summer while round baking hay.
Some good points they have but their just not enough eye candy to them. He didn't mention that the gearshift is in the middle of the floor between your legs.
MXU125....... no, the gear shift lever is in front of your legs. In front and out of the way. The only time it would be in the way is if you left it in gear, reverse, third or fifth and attempted to get out of the cab while in one of those gears. And only a stupid person would get out while in gear. I have a 7050 and have been using it as my main tractor for over 20 years and it's been a great tractor. My brother has a 7030 and it's also been a great tractor. We wouldn't give them up.
@@fordbossss More convenient but fewer speed choices. All depends on what you are using it for. In pure tillage I'd take the Power Director but for pulling a grain cart or wagons on the road I'd take the Power Shift. The Black Belly models moved the manual gear shift to the side console but that means more maintenance. A few farmers switched the side console shift for the floor shift just to avoid the aggravation. But then there is the IH shifting nightmare. I sold a lot of parts for those IHs when I worked at a CaseIH dealership and they are not nice to work on either.
Remember they were the "discount tractor" as in they would release a model a few years behind, try to sell it, then fire sale it. IIRC at the time they had even less market share than AC
@@SilverGleaner yes from pulling all the broken a.c. tractors home ahahahah they still have a few a.c. tractors around here and they are still working there is 2 for sale at the dealer with 8k hours they look rough but still run good
You still see old International's and John Deere's from this era working in the field. Don't see very many if any of these tractors. They must have been turned to scrap.
No dealers means no support and tractor value falls. It like a snow ball effect. Value falls below what it costs to repair so tractor gets scrapped instead. Fewer tractors means fewer parts sold and parts get discontinued so more tractors are scrapped and the value continues to fall. There are still some in my area being used but not many just like in my area you don't see 30 series Deere or even 40, 50, 55 and 60 series. All I ever see are the new style Deere 7800 or 8400 and whatever Deere sells today. Same can be said for IH. I can't tell you the last time I saw a 66 or 86 series and there were never very many 88 series. Even boxcar Magnums are getting rare to be seen. Maybe as stalk chopping or auger runners but not much else. MX's are everywhere though.
Air filters still had a wingnut. Sight glasses stain over the years. The batteries, nice idea. Removing the glass, why then did you buy a cab? The weights, Deere had suitcase weights in 1971 but you could use the front and rear weights off of your 4020 you traded in, thus saving you money. I never liked the Allis cab, hard to see out of with those huge front corners. IH cabs were even worse in those years. Rattled terribly, no glass in the door bottom and that stacked PTO idea was horrible. The Deere oil bath system was not handy either. The curved door on the Deere wouldn't stay latched after 10 years or so. Even this guy slammed the Allis door hard like all the others I ever got into. Opening a window made no difference. Compared to what everyone was coming from, these tractors definitely increased production with greater comfort and safety.
thegreenerthemeaner The sight glasses could be unscrewed and washed, or replaced. The windows could be removed because alot of farmers didn't buy Air Conditioning with the cabs. The rear windows were removed because back in the day choppers didn't have electric controls to adjust the spouts like today, alot of rear cab windows were busted by leaving the window in, they'd go threw a ditch and bang end of window.
RJ 1999 Chopper controls! I remember one year the corn didn't grow for nothing, few ears and 4 ft stalks. We chopped it to feed cattle. I was 14 and we dug a pit silo. My first time running a dozer, an HD 11 that the exhaust manifold said Buda Diesel on it. I also remember the neighbor with an early 8000 Ford and rattle enclosure cab with heat only, pulling the chopper. We all helped each other chop, haul pack etc. We set trucks up with false end gates that didn't have hoists. Yup, had to take the window out to run the spout controls on an old IH chopper. Most of the newer ones then had hydraulic controlled spouts and required expensive splitter valves or triple hydraulics, something not real common at the time on any tractor but the big 4x4s. How has your year been?
thegreenerthemeaner Late very wet spring, wet summer, hot humid, another year in paradise! Lol Beautiful this week beans are turning, but we need heat and time to finish the corn. And you? Living the life of Riley?
RJ 1999 Decent spring after all the monsoons got thru, then dry. Corn is starting to come out in places, beans starting to turn. Need some rain for the Alfalfa and the giant cracks in the soil. Of course fuel prices are climbing due to hurricanes. A few guys actually took delivery on what they could hold on fuel just before Harvey hit but several distributors had to call and cancel undelivered contracts. That left some angry words in the air (not me). One fellow around here has 11,000 acres and uses over 3000 gallons of fuel per day. I remember hand pumping gas to a Gleaner F with the Allis engine. My arm still hurts when I think about that.
you needed removable glass so when your A/C or event he alternator crapped out you didn't die in the sweat box, if I remember they used Prestolite alternators not very durable or easy to find.
Even the noise from the commercial had to be turned down. Theses old tractors wore you out and beat you to death. John Deere figured out operator comfort and was the only tractor company to survive the big fall.
How many 7030s are left ?? 0 how many 4430s are left almost 1/× of what was sold !! We used a 7030 for awhile and they didnt have enough removable panels !! Lol
My dad bought a 7030 brand new within the first year the turbo went out and the air conditioning quit twice and he bought a new gleaner combine close to the same time period bent a main shaft in it and he asked the dealership to fix it they said take a gas pipe and bend it straight!! WOW and then the damn door fell off it cus the hinge was a plastic strip!! He traded the 7030 for a 4430 and the combine for a 6600 Needless to say it's been nothing but green eversince!
You still see a lot of these older Allis-Chalmers tractors still working in the field when my parents were farming they had a d-17 d21 2:10 7060 70 80 for w220 they all were great machines my favourite was the d21 temple in Detroit thank you
@@lukeeversgerd7846 Sounds like some real bad luck or quite a tall tale. How come our 7030 and 7050 have thousands of hours on them and neither have had the turbo replaced? Air conditioning? Back then nearly every brand used the same AC Delco A6 compressor. What door used a plastic strip for a hinge? None that I know of. You're just talking out your ass.
The side sheets on the Deere and IH don’t come off as easily because they weren’t made to be worked on all the time. I was never an Allis fan but I really love both Deere and IH
Yea those engine cover blow out ff in high winds. Not the best design, but sure exposes most everything. Guy on commercial said “crud in the oil”, yea that’s the right word. Oh yea, and he said bat-rie
We have never lost a side sheet. There are rubber bumpers we have replaced that give the side sheets something to tighten up against and the bottom rubber bumper toward the front is adjustable to make the side sheet fit tighter if need be.
I grew up with a 1954 WD-45. Unstoppable in its day. I learned to drive when I was 8 Years old. My uncle picked me up by the seat of my pants, threw me in the seat and told me not to drive it into the pond, and turn the key off when I go to the house.
The neighbors bought a 7020 ac luckily my brother bought a 4240 john deere. Iam still using the 4240 the Allis Chalmers is long gone. Its motor blew up. If anyone is noticing the 4240 still bringing 20 thousand plus at resale. Sorry but ya was fooled if you picked an AC over a deere!! Just cold hard factual truth!
you COULD wipe off the deck of the IH before checking th ehyd oil- itls not that hard. The early A-C's are hard to ge ton if your around 5'2" truset me the black series may be easier.
Definitely some good features and good ideas but where are those tractors today? The test of time proves the value of a product. Watch the prices of all those at a farm auction and see which ones fetch the high $$
Randy Robinson...... That must be why IH shoes pictures of hydro tractors pulling a plow in their advertising. Not a great transmission by any stretch.
starting off the film...were already 1 minute and 14 seconds in, and the guy doesn't care to tell what model it is, but instead starts off the bat with telling the new features, and literally takes off a side panel....................notice there were only two latches.....what about hinges on the upper portion of that panel, cause a panel is easy to loose if your a careless farmer, I'm not
@@J-1410 The 88 series had some much needed transmission updates and they really never took off...... would I own one? I would love to own a 50/52/5488..... right after I get my hands on an Allis 8050 or 8070. Sharp looking.... the best looking IH ever put out. Way better looking than the box cars that replaced them..... not better than a Magnum mechanically though.
@@SilverGleaner We have 3 5088s. No plans on ever getting rid of them. All year long they're doing something from feeding to raking to planting to buzzing back and forth with the grain vac. Much needed updates...well it was a completely new design that was to become the "New Farmall" at FPS 1986, but one rich oil company, one ugly Case hood and some Case cab interior changes later, you have the magnum. We haven't really had any issues with our 88s, aside from a couple of broken wires with the Sentry. I've never heard of any mechanical issues with them... I'd like to try an 8050/8070, just to see what they were like. After the 7000 series from AC, their tractors just weren't popular around here, but then again IHC had a 90% marketshare here with the 06-88 series.
@@J-1410 way back when the Magnums came out most people thought they were updated Case tractors. I didn't know they were updated 88 series until I started working at the CaseIh dealer back in 1998.
International wasted too much time with that worthless 560, deers New generation put them all to shame. The Allis WC and WD we're good tractors for their time when deer was still playing with the two bangers. Farmall was far ahead of them until they kept at 60 series.
Dan caszatt ok, as shown in the video a 2 speed pto shaft that was the easiest to switch from 540 to 1000, a radiator that was sucking clean dust free air from the front of the tractor, rather than John Deere pulling dusty air from the front wheels into the radiator. A far more fuel efficient engines than John Deere, and fuel capacity that didn't leave you stranded after 8 hrs of operation. A tractor whose weight distribution didn't change as the day wore on. A transmission that was bullet proof Vs Deeres synchro or quad range, which if shifted wrong knocked off a snap ring requiring the whole transmission to be tore down to repair. A tractor where any major component failed could be repaired without removing the cab, where John Deere the cab had to come off for almost every event other than engine failure. A tractor that wasn't loaded down with specialty tools so many repairs could be done yourself and not brought back to a dealer. A design that used standard sizes for bearing and seals rather than John Deere oddball demensions they used so no seals or bearings could be bought at a bearing supply house if the dealer didn't have them. A transmission and rear end that was pressure lubed with filtered and cooled oil rather than splash lubed like John Deere, a crankshaft that was super hardened so it never needed to be turned with proper maintenance (Mercedes Benz was the only other mfg to do this). A seat that you could put your legs under if you chose, to change position after a long day. A drawbar that was double the size. A hub design that allowed the tires to be slid on the axle, that 40 yrs later still works, unlike the John Deere, Draft sensing that wasn't prone to leaks, precleaned on the air intake to extend filter life and on the 7080 a muffler that sucked the dirt from the incoming air. A tractor whose mfg didn't have to lie about its weight , because it was built heavy enough to be honest about. I'm sure there's more but that's what I can think of at the top of my head.
Really, I never saw him roll a tool box over to spend an hour unbolting the hood and then ask someone to help him lift the hood off..... did you? How about the dual dry PTO vs the oil spill PTO switch for the Deere? The Allis has a quieter cab than the Deere.... that says something. Pressure and flow compensated hydraulics that took Deere another 20 years to come out with. How about refueling the Allis vs the Deere? You think the Deere is better in that area? Did you see how much heavier the Allis 3-point hitch is? How about the fact that changing the wheel width is far easier on the Allis? You ever had to split a Deere and then split an Allis in a shop? There is no comparison which is easier to work on or which has the heavier rear end. How about the simple task of changing the engine oil? And the fact that the Allis has inverted filters so you never have to run a dry oil filter waiting for it to fill while running before you have oil pressure?
@@LoganC1988 um no. 4430 had better clutch , hyd,shifting,front end, placement of control's, and a far superior cab. Only thing is the 10 started better
