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1979 Eastbourne F (PT 2) - Chris Evert d. Martina Navratilova 

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The longest match in the history of their rivalry, the finals of 1979 Eastbourne - the tuneup for Wimbledon - went to 7-5 5-7 13-11 in favor of Chrissie. Most surprisingly, they never met at the tournament again after this match.

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Комментарии : 82   
@eastfiftyseven
@eastfiftyseven 3 года назад
What a superb match - the wooden racquets required much more play, craft, variety… was a better game then.
@bierbaron6666
@bierbaron6666 11 лет назад
The amount of forehand passes and winners from Evert is extraordinary in this match. She played so many unique and marvelous angled winners either on the run or from a position which would make it impossible to hit such shots for almost any other player in the history of tennis. But the most remarkable thing in this match is the mental strength and stamina of Chrissie. Martina was the fitter player but cracked at the end due to Everts steely courage which gave her an extra boost of energy
@stevebbuk
@stevebbuk 2 года назад
Such a shame she couldn't replicate the form when she faced Martina in a final at Wimbledon.
@amb817
@amb817 9 лет назад
What an incredible match. It's unbelievable how Chris was able to hit winners past Martina at net. It almost resembles the passing shots of today. Chris was a bit ahead of her time especially doing that with wooden rackets and with such finesse and precision
@stewartshreenan8256
@stewartshreenan8256 Год назад
What a match;; Great play by both players.
@BTURNER1961
@BTURNER1961 9 лет назад
The real secrets to Evert superb grass game lie in her uncanny anticipation, impeccable footwork and early stroke preparation and keen sense of balance. The first two ensure she gets to a hell of a lot of approaches and volleys. the third and fourth ensures she will be able to handle bad low bounces and be able to disguise which of three options she has once she is in position. If you get there just a fraction later, at least one of options is effectively gone, and without that early set-up, you can' t confound the volleyer as well about your intentions. Evert employs the fundamentals of the sport flawlessly almost every time she hits a ball.
@stevenjukes8208
@stevenjukes8208 9 лет назад
+Brian Turner As I said about part 1. Ladies grass court tennis at it's best. Chris v Martina. John Barrett a master of knowledge & admiration. I wonderful June afternoon by the seaside. How lucky we were :))
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
A career is not about the way it goes only during the best times. It is the whole, start to finish. In that regard, Chris is the greatest ever. She never had a lapse, never had a weak period until the very end, and then she departed before there were too many losses. Martina took years to become as dominant as she became. She was throughout her career nowhere nearly as consistent a performer until after 1983. This is how I see it. Yes, Martina was the more dominant of the two in the mid-latter years of their rivalry and Chris acknowledges this, but Chris is also a very gracious person, very willing to give credit where it is due. Martina and Chris are the two greatest women players of all time, and they happened to come along at the same time. ONLY Martina could catch up with, and then dominate Chris for 13 consecutive matches. And their rivalry is the greatest in all of sport. It will not likely happen again. But spare a thought for Monica (who's sound effects continue to reverberate and destroy the game) and Steffi. Both had the potential to be as consistent as Chris and Martina, but the stabbing ended that possibility.
@mbblover
@mbblover 10 лет назад
good intelligent post.. i would add from 1985 to 89.. they were pretty evenly matched, while martina had the head to head edge in those years, it was close (i.e. 3-2 for a given year for example) and in actuality in my opinion really mattered on what surface they were playing on..... indoor/grass went martina's way, clay evert's way and hardcourt could go either way... i think some need to really look into the head to head more closely instead of focusing on the eventual number.... what hurts evert of course is the 13 matches in a row losing streak that CANNOT be ignored... however, one can put that into a bit of context too. evert playing with a wood racket, taking time to get to used to the graphite and increasing her own physical strength, speed and conditioning etcetera..
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
mbblover So true. It's a shame Martina avoided certain surfaces, whereas I do not have the sense Chris particularly avoided Martina. I think for a period of time there was uncertainty, dread, the change you note, more forced than chosen, necessary if she was to keep up, since she also had to physically catch up. But she did catch up. Her tennis was brilliant in the last years, even some of her most brilliant stuff in matches she may have not won, but many she did. I'm just so impressed with Chris's incredible front-to-back consistency. When she was losing those 13 and 9 in a row streaks to Martina, she was hardly losing to anyone else. It's just something we will never see again. I don't think. Because they were so inspiring we may have seen it, but then Seles was stabbed.
@mbblover
@mbblover 10 лет назад
***** from 1973 to their last match in 1988 they played 34 times on martina's favorite surface indoor carpet.. only 10 times on evert's best surface clay.. that is a pretty big advantage/disadvantage to both of them... martina won 23-11 on indoors, evert 7-3 on clay... like i said i still believe in the last years of their rivarly they were pretty much dead even depending on the surface it would be who won...
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
mbblover Yes, this is the important point and thank you for the supporting stats. One had the sense Martina played clay when Chris was not entered... Chris played every grass court tournament she could. And Nicklas makes my point for me and adds to yours, slightly inadvertently, which is that except for clay, where they played relatively few matches, Martina dominated... Dominated may not be the right word, won the balance... The 13 consecutive were the only mental lapses for Evert and only against Martina so consistently. Martina was particularly brutal, it was a new thing a new aggressiveness. Haughtiness, arrogance. It was unnerving and there were times I had the sense Evert just didn't care to compete against such unprofessional behavior. Martina was the first really obnoxiously self-congratulatory player. She had a real way of dismissing Chris's best shots, even cheering Evert's errors. It's all there, it happened, you can't say it didn't. I lived that rivalry, I loved them both, but found it hard to support Navratilova when she was so self-supportive and, really, unsportsmanlike to my way of thinking at the time. To be sure, times have shifted and gamesmanship is promoted by the very players who took advantage of it, now as "respected" announcers. Relatively speaking, Martina was not so bad. And late in their career things did become more respectful. And the sport and the rivalry benefitted. Had they played an even number of matches on clay as other surfaces, we would likely see a much more even rivalry overall, in fact, likely, Evert would have won more Grand Slams (she did not play the French or the Australian very often early in her career) and more matches in their rivalry. Probably. It's splitting hairs and for me the razor's edge is Evert's consistency in all aspects. The greatest Professional this great sport has seen since Open Tennis.
@mbblover
@mbblover 10 лет назад
i know about the actual head to head number totals, however, are you taking into account. what SURFACES the matches were played on? that is one of my points in saying they were pretty "evenly matched" during this time period.. they didn't play once in 89.. based on the internet i see that the played 18 times NOT 19? and the head to head number was 11 to 7 in martina's favor... HOWEVER, and this is my argument when you analyze on what surface they played on. the numbers are 'different" what i mean is on hard court in those years? 3-2 in evert's favor, on clay thru those years? 4-1 in evert's favor. on indoor carpet? 5-0 in martina's favor. on grass? 3-0 in martina's favor..so basically like i posted in my argument it depended on the surface they played. clay and hardcourt (the slower surfaces) evert usually came out ahead and on the faster surfaces (indoor carpet and grass) martina won..
@MARKBPHARM
@MARKBPHARM 10 лет назад
Chris was probably the best exponent of the game using a small wooden racquet strung with gut. Had rules been introduced to mandate the size and construction of racquets, I suspect Chris would have edged Martina out on H2H despite Martina's improvement in fitness. It was astonishing that Chris still won Slams using that wooden racquet when the rest had gone to the larger graphite racquets. The new racquets were great for all of us club players, but perhaps not so good for the professionals where the emphasis is too much on strength and athleticism and not enough on being a tennis player using strategy and tactics.
@Ariamaluum
@Ariamaluum 10 лет назад
Tony Trabert, Vic Braden, and Jack Kramer that she a serve that was capable of being just as good as Serena's but she refused to bend her knees and was content to rally. But they will tell you had she had that serve, Martina would have only won once against Chris. Another thing, Nancy Lieberman really wanted to train Chris but Chris rejected her so she went to Martina. It was Nancy that gave Martina the psychological edge of beating Chris. Chris use to take advantage of Martina's good nature and American abundance to win matches. Nancy wiped that out. But had Chris used the serve, it wouldn't have mattered.
@jonathankieranwriter
@jonathankieranwriter 7 лет назад
Mark Bpharm ... All true, or mostly so. For sheer purity of shot, preparation and execution off the ground, no one comes close to Chris. That being said, she held out far too long (and perhaps far too stubbornly or warily) with the wood racquet. She should have switched to a graphite model (or had Wilson make one for her) immediately after the 1982 season, when Martina put the writing on the wall at the year-end championships in New Jersey, snuffing Chris out 4-6 6-2 6-1. If Evert had possessed the foresight to switch at that time, I do not believe she would have fallen into that terrible, confidence-draining 2-year vortex against Martina. Not by any "shake of the stick." So, Evert was indeed the best woman to ever wield a woodie, but the delayed transition to a new model was a huge miscalculation on her part. It cost her. Big time.
@rawtennis5902
@rawtennis5902 5 лет назад
@@Ariamaluum I notice too not much shoulder rotation, opened up too son. But, wow, great footwork and precision.
@shihlin1
@shihlin1 11 лет назад
This match should be the "Crown in the Jewel" in their rivalry, not the 85 French final. Both players are so evenly matched here and Chris debunks critics about her inability to play on grass. Martina's body language is cocky and full of swagger, but Chris is not the least bit intimidated. Chris later said this match took so much out of her emotionally that she was unable to beat Martina just two weeks later in the Wimbledon final when they met again. Physically both have never looked better
@yussepig6629
@yussepig6629 3 года назад
If it wasn’t for Martina, Chris would have won 10 Wimbledon’s and be considered best grass court player ever. Go figure that!
@rayjones5684
@rayjones5684 2 года назад
@@yussepig6629 Facts
@sauravmukerji6242
@sauravmukerji6242 5 лет назад
Evert is greatest ever female tennis player
@johniii8147
@johniii8147 10 лет назад
I still miss their matches all these years later. We'll never have a rivalry like this again.
@neil663
@neil663 11 лет назад
great champions both of them thank you
@bierbaron6666
@bierbaron6666 11 лет назад
That match is so unreal!!Impossible how Evert picked up speed when she was on the way to use her running forehand not only to stay in the point but the hit the ultimate winner. At first the one at 03:02 where she really punished the ball down the line.Then the one at 5:29 where she really showed how fast she can be if she really has to. Just an amazing blazer down the sideline! the last one at 10:40 seems unreal to me: She was completely out of position and was able to hit an angled winner
@markwhitman72
@markwhitman72 7 лет назад
Everyone always says how great the current players like Serena are today but really Evert did much more amazing things with her wooden racquet and so did Martina! I've always thought Serena would have been dissed if she had to play in this era but Chrissie and Martina always give her props.
@FlabbyTitmuss
@FlabbyTitmuss 5 лет назад
An incredible match. Evert's precision is phenomenal. I actually prefer to watch Evert on a quicker surface.
@kosta88816
@kosta88816 4 года назад
I Love Watching Matches Were Chris Won 🙏
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 11 лет назад
THANK YOU for that gem! I've seen bits and pieces. Great commentary, great conclusion. Really wonderful that you posted it. Great.
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
I think the rivalry was more even than you like to admit, but the point to which you responded remains valid: A career is not a rivalry or just how you do in the slams. It's how you do in all aspects, on court against anyone else, including your rivals. Beginning to end, the consistency is with Chris, I think.
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
I think that sums it up well, except that there was a Lieberman effect... It was noticeable. Martina admits she was "trained" to "hate" Chris. It showed on court, Chris felt it, the fans felt it, and the hostility followed her. it took years for martina to live it down. There was a cost in crowd support for the path Martina chose. It was only for a time. The bookends are the more important matches I think, where each showed dominance. To deny that is deny Martina's own take on it. But to be sure, 80 times, incredible. And to be so even overall, despite long patches by either player. Chris had a way of gaining control of rivals after losses, dominating them in the end (Austin, maybe one could even say Seles) but yes Martina had some amazing later years as well. They were the two best. I think there is little doubt about that. Looking back, their matches were more absorbing than anything you see today. It was summer after summer of weekends of Chris and Martina. A dependable billing for the most part. A thrilling one, for the most part. Something we will simply not likely see again. Not saying it won't happen. I hope we as a species, and tennis, endure long enough to see two truly greats come along at the same time and spend their careers in incredible rivalry. Not least of all because it will stir the memories of these two Greatest. Martina was the greatest Champion. Chris was the greatest Rival to that Champion. Martina was the greatest grass court player in history. Chris was the greatest clay court player in history. (Rafa, maybe..) Chris was the greatest player, the most consistent. And I make that statement in terms of both men and women, because of all of them, for the duration of her career, the only fair measurement, the only non-subjective way of measuring, is winning percentage. Chris was the greatest player of all time. Up against the greatest Championship Player of all time, Martina, who was the better of the two in their individual rivalry. One could quite easily make the very same comparisons between Federer and Nadal. And also, I think, when you really look at it, the level of parity is that these are the two greatest shot-makers in women's tennis history. Each with their own particular and opposing strengths. Aggression at the net vs pinpoint accuracy. It was just the brilliant best rivalry. Always missed, and thankfully relived with RU-vid and brilliant fans like you.
@shihlin1
@shihlin1 8 лет назад
Tennis historian Bud Collins called this match and the same final a yr earlier their greatest matches. Martina had more than one match point here and Chris saved them all. Their 1978 Eastbourne final has also been posted where Chris had a match point in that one and Martina came back to win it. This 1979 final is probably even better than the 1978 final. Check it out.
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
Every time Martina hits a superb shot, you hear Chris say, "Yeah." Every time Chris his a superb shot, Martina purses her lips and shakes her head, as though it was not such a great shot. Sportsmanship vs Gamesmanship. I prefer the former every time, and am convinced that in any REAL consideration of greatest ever, we have to consider the total package and the ONLY real measure is winning percentage. Evert was the greatest ever.
@BTURNER1961
@BTURNER1961 10 лет назад
I think you misinterpret it. Often Martina is thinking about how she got herself into a predicament before that winner was hit. She is thinking about what she may have done wrong in the point, whether it was a short approach, or poor serve, or not putting enough on her volley or misreading Evert's stroke. Martina grew to react very differently as time went on, making sure to commend the shots of opponents. It is also true that the way this match was originally shot/ edited for tV will impact this impression let alone how it was again edited by whoever put it here. if the camera is not filming Martina's reaction consistently point after point, we cannot know what you think you know.
@MrMahlerman
@MrMahlerman 10 лет назад
Brian Turner we cannot know what you think you know. ... Your words.
@BTURNER1961
@BTURNER1961 9 лет назад
+MrMahlerman Actually I got the 'words' from the famous 30/30 documentary with Evert and Martina talking about this very issue. Martina said that was what was often going on in her head after an opponent hit a winner.
@JMLCK78
@JMLCK78 7 лет назад
That's hardly "Gamesmanship"
@MrPernell27
@MrPernell27 7 лет назад
MrMahlerman BULLSHIT. MARTINA SAYS " TOO GOOD" QUIT OFTEN WHEN HER OPPONENTS HIT GOOD SHOTS. YOU DON;'T HAVE TO APPLAUD EVERY SHOT YOUR OPPONENT HITS. MARTINA, STEFFI AND SERENA ARE THE GREATEST EVER! CHRISSIE IS THE ONE WHO LOST HER H2H WITH MARTINA. FACTS VS BULLSHIT YOU DUMBASS!!
@tomschmitz261
@tomschmitz261 Год назад
I think Evert liked the grass at eastbourne alot more than wimbledon... this court seemed to have a more true higher bounce like a hard court that helped evert?
@eastfiftyseven
@eastfiftyseven Год назад
Only discovered this match on RU-vid but I think it’s my favorite of theirs. And brings into clear view that Martina’s fitness improvement was probably less responsible for the edge she subsequently gained over Chris than was the advent of bigger , graphite racquet adding the power to serve and volley and forehand alike
@michaeljohnson5365
@michaeljohnson5365 3 года назад
The large trees that are behind the stand got cut down in 1987
@preciousjey
@preciousjey 4 года назад
The court looks like a combo of Wimbeldon and US Open.
@tomogden9503
@tomogden9503 8 лет назад
The sheer joy of every single shot… Sensational.
@Pdjohnners
@Pdjohnners 11 лет назад
Thank you sooooooo much. Ive always wanted to see the conclusion to this classic. Thank you
@sk8412c
@sk8412c 11 лет назад
Great quality and clarity!!! Great!
@lenwelch2195
@lenwelch2195 4 года назад
Down 4-2 evert hits lines on 3 service returns of martina
@michaelschwab9806
@michaelschwab9806 Год назад
Besides this being a "great" final between 2 champions,and future HOFs..All I can say is,there will "never" be another rivalry in women's tennis that will ever come close to this! (On a side note) at all grass tournaments,all players are "required" to play "only" with wooden racquets!
@BTURNER1961
@BTURNER1961 11 лет назад
Great stuff. Martina was already strong and quick both in reflex and about the court, but she still was suspect in her stamina. You can see her more breathless after longer rallies than Evert, who's stamina was never in question until very late in her career. Martina was almost never to have that problem by the end of '82. I think Evert ended up with three more victories over Martina on grass, for the rest of her career.
@tenniscollector
@tenniscollector 11 лет назад
Do you happen to have the 1978 Eastbourne final - a three setter won by Martina?
@moboutmen
@moboutmen 29 дней назад
Pushing 70. I still have a Chrissy Crush.
@CJJAK37
@CJJAK37 6 лет назад
Amazing quality
@giorgiocambi4495
@giorgiocambi4495 2 месяца назад
I'm crazy for Chris
@maestrodimente
@maestrodimente 11 лет назад
Love it! :-)
@QPRTokyo
@QPRTokyo 2 года назад
No advertising. 😺
@lenwelch2195
@lenwelch2195 4 года назад
This is the last match where Chris plays Martina that she is not uptight . Her nerves held her back along with Martina’s surge to greatness . The next tournament Martina plays number one tennis then falls away to 2081 Amelia island and hits rock bottom losing 7-0,6-0. Meeting Lieberman who whips her into shape. ChriS anticipationpated her ride and knew of Martina got into great shape that she ( herself) would be number 2 . The 79 w final Chris was serving 4-6. Down after being down 6-2 in identical sets . VHRIS CAPITULATED IN WHICH LOSING 6-3,7-2 was not an option but losing 6-4 seemed logical instead of believing she should win like she does here’s. Not until 84 open did she feel like she lost a match she should’ve won , that stung and propelled her to beat her 5 days later in straight sets then the 85&86 French bs Martina , I’m my opinion vhris plsued her best here and in the last 2 sets of 86 French then 85 French , then Austin won on 80 open , then Luton defeating Graf for last time in 86 then her last official tournament win beating seles in 89 open
@thierrybonnet8979
@thierrybonnet8979 4 года назад
Lesbienne raisonnable? Martina!
@jamesc7019
@jamesc7019 3 года назад
Great match. Martinas game improved so much with graphite racquets. Evert was superior with wooden.
@leolight5369
@leolight5369 9 лет назад
Not surprising that they never met again. Evert almost never played Eastbourne in the '80s
@mbblover
@mbblover 10 лет назад
interesting the 2 eastbourne matches in 78 and 79 between the two.. in 78, martina won after being down 4-2 in the 3rd set 9-7, she would repeat the same thing 2 weeks later at wimbledon down 4-2 in the 3rd set and winning 7-5. in 79, evert would win this match 13-11 but 2 weeks later lost routinely 6-4, 6-4 to martina....
@mbblover
@mbblover 8 лет назад
Pascoe Braun when it's due of course, i am... how about turning that back on to you, giving evert credit?..
@BTURNER1961
@BTURNER1961 11 лет назад
Aren't they supposed to get tired and slow down around 7-7 in the third?
@fjosephgonzales6870
@fjosephgonzales6870 6 лет назад
Didn't Chrissie skip this tournament a lot later in her career, to concentrate on Wimbledon? Maybe that's a big reason why they never played at Eastbourne again after this terrific match.
@lenwelch2195
@lenwelch2195 7 месяцев назад
Chrissie beat mrtina in 79 eastborne final then lost to Martina in W final, a year later at crossly grass tourney before W Chris beat Goolagong only to lose to Goolagong in W final in 79 macaw , Bergen tourney just before 79 open Chris beat Tracy down 4-6 4-2 and won 4-6, 6-4, 6-2 then lost to Tracy 6-4;6-3 in open final. She was down 5-2 in second set and while Tracy served at 5-3 15-40 Chris dumped an easy second serve from Tracy in to bottom of the net steering the ball. . Eventually worn down ,e tally feeding balls right into Tracy’s strike zone without realizing it. She then lost 5 matches playing same way. Trying to outsteady Tracy feeding her a ball hit deep right to her . Tracy hardly had to move. A year later at 80 open down 4-0 playing same way she decided to mix up the pace and discovered Tracy didn’t move well up and back . Chris was unpredictable and Tracy was reacting to Chris’s shots so Chris had the pace setting and won 16;of the last 20 games. Tracy never threatened Chris for year end ranking again . Often tracynlostbefore having to meet Chris in slams . Shriver beat Tracy at W in 81 QF , king beat Tracy in QF at W in 82 Hana beat Tracy at French and open before Hana lost to Chris. Last match Chris won 6-0,6-0 and Tracy’s body wouldn’t allow her to beat the very two top players. By then Chris had improved and improved 100 percent from 83 open to 84 open finally giving Martina competition . She lost 13 times in a row to Martina in all of 83 ,84 but 85 Chris won twice . Florida slims final and French open . She was 7-11 till Chris retired in 89 but their last match was played at end of 88 , 43-37 for Martina. Chris even said “ Martina’s best was better than my best” if evert says it it must be true. She’s honest.
@lucledieu5632
@lucledieu5632 10 лет назад
dommage que les commentaires soit pas en français
@Paglia444
@Paglia444 9 лет назад
Is that Mrs. Austin sitting beside John Lloyd?
@shihlin1
@shihlin1 8 лет назад
Yes, and Tracy shows up sitting next to her mom at 10:50.
@FLE22P
@FLE22P 8 лет назад
The Martina of the 80`s would have simply demolished this 1979 version. In this match, she rarely went to the net and played with much less confidence/arrogance of the later Martina. And wtf is on Chris`s left arm? That said, these are my all time favorite players...classy, smart and sooo talented 1
@jeffreyturner7678
@jeffreyturner7678 6 лет назад
am I the only one that wants to keep picking off that red scab on Chrissie's right arm during the match?
@jasonbrooks6562
@jasonbrooks6562 6 лет назад
Evert had the mobilty of the statue of liberty.
@tonyalder
@tonyalder 4 года назад
Evert was one of the best movers on a tennis court great foot work
@HunterBidenCocaineBag
@HunterBidenCocaineBag 8 лет назад
Evert's consistency on the court is unmatched--by anyone. Another aspect where Chris is way more consistent than Navratilova is brand loyalty. Chris was Wilson racket (and Ellesse clothing, and Converse shoes)...never wavering. Martina was Yonex rackets---until she used a painted over Graf Dunlop in violation of her Yonex contract in 1987 and some of 1988, which I never understood why she did that. For me, it was very strange. Regardless, both these ladies will always be in the conversation of greatest ever, and this match is evidence why.
@misina211
@misina211 7 лет назад
She didn't violate her Yonex contract, she had their permission to do that. She was at her wits end trying to figure out how to compete against the new #1 Graf, so she psyched herself into thinking that perhaps using Graf's racquet would help her out. She only used the stealth Dunlop racquet with the Yonex logo on the strings for one or two tournaments before switching back to her Yonex. I believe this experiment prompted Yonex to produce a racquet closer in specs to the Dunlop Max200G that Steffi used.
@binkyxz3
@binkyxz3 5 лет назад
Martina is playing with a Bancroft racket here.
@stephenmeitai7622
@stephenmeitai7622 Год назад
They played like practicing. Very slow moving and slow hitting balls. Today's players will easily bt both 6-0,6-0
@GregTanner-rc2vj
@GregTanner-rc2vj Год назад
Either you never played tennis or you are an idiot. Nobody seems to know or remember how playing with these rackets. Today's players would make 100 errors and have no clue about strategy. I say a champion will be a champion in any era.
@HunterBidenCocaineBag
@HunterBidenCocaineBag 10 лет назад
What is that on Chrissie's left arm? I've never noticed it until this match. Interesting to see Tracy there watching. I think it was obvious who she was rooting for.
@saltire21
@saltire21 10 лет назад
believe it or not ,i remember it was a transfer type tattoo,of a black heart.there was also a matching one on her leg,the significance had something to do with her then ,very recent hubby,john lloyd,,cant remember what it was though.For the life of me ,i dont know how i remember reading that in the paper 35 years ago,it just stuck
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