Hi Tom, I was part of the 1st wind farm project - Craig Fatha - and we are in our 3rd year. Year 2 saw massive returns due to the price of energy shooting up. So far, we've nearly recouped 2/3rds of our investment which is great. You'll find Oct-Mar being the months with the most wind and returns so worth bearing that in mind going forward.
Thanks that is helpful to hear, I think the Craig Fatha project does have some more meaningful savings than Kirk Hill but hearing that Oct - March will be higher generation is positive!
I’m an investor in DW and WB with ripple. My main reason for investing is that it allows me to support renewables in a direct way. It allows me to sort of offset some emissions and feel like I’m doing everything I can. The payback is important and welcome but I see it as a small bonus, rather than a big lucrative scheme. I do have solar on my roof which does the heavy lifting in terms of keeping the bills down.
Just checked for out investment in the Kirk Hill site, the estimated annual investment divide by our lump sump investment equates to an 7.3% interest rate. Certainly not a get rich scheme but it's perfectly acceptable if it holds out around this long term.
Yeah on paper, if it performs as estimated, it is a bit better than my experience so far, and would payback or break even in year 13 for us (not considering what else the investment would provide if invested elsewhere) It is a long term gain, and having cheaper bills for the next couple of decades is definitely a positive!
Interesting, thanks Tom. It will be interesting to track this over the winter and for a year ore more to see how generation increases and what difference that makes.
I am also a member of Kirk Hill and you have to be very careful as the 3.2p/kWh is currently very low for 2 reasons. 1 is that this year (up until Jan) the Co-op is currently raising a cash buffer as the co-op is brand new and has no cash and the co-op is paying off additional building expenses which were higher than expected. The second is that the rate we secured for 2024 was very low compared to "normal years" and come Jan 2025, we expect this rate to increase significantly (maybe even 50-75% increase) which will bring the payback to within normal expected ranges (est. 10-15 years) as per share offer.
Hello Tom, fantastic timing for this video. I was considering Ripple in the past, however because nobody could actually show me any real numbers, I dropped the idea. Seeing your video now, I can say that Ripple numbers are well, Ripple numbers aka marketing fluff... Ripple is still on my agenda, but I might completely rethink the strategy... Very useful video, thank you.
Pleased it is helpful, I think I am still supportive of ripple as a concept. The savings aren't significant, but it is great to help support new renewable energy, and see some return on that. What are you thinking in terms of your strategy? If there is another wind project I may well buy a small amount to keep growing our portfolio, get to 65-70% of our energy use (maybe). When it comes out of the bank as £30 per month, it feels manageable!
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle My initial idea was to cover 120% of my use by Rippple project ONLY for the kWh savings. While I see there are savings to be made, I no longer believe you'll even achieve real ROI with Ripple. I think even Ripple themselves changed the wording on their website to make people aware that investing in community generation is not really a financial investment, it more akin to "doing the right thing" from the environmental angle... I see that, and I am considering settling in for savings in CO2 more than anything else. Having few pence cheaper electricity will be just added bonus I think....
Hi Tom. I'm a member of Kirk Hill. The relatively low price per kWh at the moment is due to finances regarding the initial first few months operation and funds required for it to 'get established and stand on its own two feet (or eight turbine towers!). The rate will improve after January 2025. I'm very happy with my membership of the co-op and look at it long term.
Great to see some actual results and thanks for sharing. I've thought about investing in Ripple before but I've prioritised investing in an EV and solar and currently investing in an ASHP. These feel like more direct investments and with a shorter turnaround time. I still like the idea of Ripple to compliment summer solar generation and I also like that it's easy to take with you when moving house. But the long lead time to see returns and those figures don't seem to add up to me - appreciate that I'm benefiting from your experience there.
Thank you, a very useful review of your personal experience. I've come just one click away from investing in Ripple a couple of times but held back. I was hesitant because energy forecasts were predicting a glut of cheap energy from renewables and Ripple only made sense based on increasing prices. We have saved more with our free hours of energy from Octopus than you have from your investment so far,
Tom like yourself I have invested in Kirk Hill, Derrill and Whitelaw, but sufficient to cover 120% of my usage, about 55% from Kirk Hill. The summer months from a meteorological perspective are in general much less windy than autumn, winter and spring, although for obvious reasons the wind strength across the U.K. varies from year to year. I think you can only really judge Ripple over a much longer term. It is primarily not a financial investment but more of an insurance against rising electricity prices, and no one knows where they will go in the future,( up or down). It is also important to remember that the return you are getting on Ripple is essentially the wholesale price of electricity not the retail price. My personal view is that community owned renewable energy projects should be encouraged by the Government and incentivised accordingly. Meanwhile I will be watching my own dashboard over the next year or so with interest.
I invested £3500 in Kirk Hill 120% of usage and is projecting to pay back 6500 over twenty five years. Please that I get wind paying for my winter energy and my solar paying for my summer needs...result ☀️ 💨
I invested more in Kirkhill than yourself Tom, I knew that it would never cover our electrical needs, the whole ethos was that it would offset any increasing bills, however I have been somewhat disappointed in what my expectation was. The carbon and electrical offset is great but this was never intended to be an investment that would ‘make’ people money. But as I said I have been a little disappointed but like you I’ll be more interested in 12-18 months time.
Yeah my hope is that the winter will have more consistent generation. Interestingly, it looks like the Whitelaw Brae scheme will have better savings, and not quite got to the bottom of why that is (I havent looked in detail to be honest!) I am still pleased I have made the 'investment', even if it isn't lucrative savings... hope you are too!
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I am because it was about offsetting and not to make money, it was also ‘to do a bit for the greater good’, I did have a little downer on them because it took a lot longer to get up and running, in fact I’d say almost a year later than was originally scheduled, but to be fair to Ripple that wasn’t all their fault, Network trying to keep up with demand of all the new projects. Looking back and knowing what I know now I’d have done things slightly differently, but hey hindsight is a wonderful thing, still like seeing a credit on our bill and watching the turbine simulation turning online 🤣
Having invested in Graig Fatha we have had lower financial results this year, yes it has been disappointing, but over two and a half years the results have meant we have already had over 50% of our investment back in savings. Winter / Spring has been more windy at least in South Wales where our turbine is situated. So hopefully things will noticeably improve. It is also helpful in beginning to understand the cost of generation in comparison to transmission, standing charges, tax etc
I'm putting money into whitelaw brae. Contrary to most posts i found your results more positive. Ripple are a small firm doing something new. It is understandable that they will learn and optimise with time. Taking into account the time of year the output seems on track. Financially, who knows? We need much more renewable generation, which fluctuates. More and more often wholesale prices will go below zero - encouraged storage. But there will also be times, particularly during the winter when solar isn't available that prices will be high due to extended periods of less wind but people still needing to heat their homes.
For a heat pump for your own home a cost benefit analysis is borderline useful. For this investment though it is. The numbers are truly horrible which is a pity but not that surprising.
Hi Tom, Thanks for the video. I have invested £2300 in Kirk Hill and this is expected to generate 4200 kWh/annum to add to our 4200 kWh/annum we generate with our solar panels (no battery). Our total energy use is about 8750kWh/annum so these two make us sort of neutral . Our electricity import is currently 6300 kWh so Ripple is about 67% of this. Savings so far £40 so £10/month ish. Our net electricity bill is after export credits is currently £76/month. Import includes the house,(1550kWh) 7kW ASHP (2500 kWh) , EV charging (1950kWh), DHW Eddi (300kWh). Yes savings a little low atm but have offset 2/3 of my remaining imports and saved about 13% on my net electricity bill. PS how do you get the Octopus energy data to display in Ripple ?
Thanks for the summary Philip - you are a bit further down the path than me! Great stuff to have 67% of your electricity import covered by Ripple! On the front page of the dashboard, under the generation overview, I can toggle 'show energy usage', is that available for you? Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Just checked and I don't have that toggle. I am with Octopus and getting the savings credited to my account. Looks like an API missing or something. I use Home Assistant so maybe I can combine the data there. Looks like some tweaking somewhere :-) Update : Just found out that although Ripple had my account number I needed to enter the Octopus API into the Ripple settings under integrations. Might be useful adding this to your notes for information. My data from June - October shows I have imported 1402kWh + self consumed 888 kWh = 2290 kWh used. Solar Export was 1151 kWh + Ripple Generation 1269 kWh = 2420 kWh so net 1018 kWh in "credit". Happy with that. Keep the videos coming .
Thanks Tom, I thought this would be a good idea at first but after looking in to it I decided not to go through with it. However if prices increase then it will definitely help!
That sounds sensible, although I guess including the positive impact of more renewable energy in your thoughts is also good. It doesn't seem like a great financial decision, but with the potential wider impact, it makes more sense!
I looked into this concept and got very intrigued until i ask about how much percentage would be buying of the estimated production and unfortunately i didnt get an answer, so the next phone call i got the answer was the offer ad been closed, without an estimated cap percentage, just said to me how long is a peace of string. I still think its a great concept tho and have invested in a home wind turbine and solar setup and winter hasnt come yet, in cornwall it adverages out to 29mph+ for a solid month, good luck and hope at the end you get a return.
Am i correct in calculating the return is looking like 5% of your investment? If so, possibly better than a building society? Although with a building society, you still have your capital, not sure if that is true with these projects?
Hi William - I’m afraid you’re getting into the dark arts for me in thinking about return on investment…! But I think it’s a good comparison with a savings account etc I don’t think I can sell my share of the ripple Coop easily so not really keeping my capital…. Although I am definitely not the person to get financial understanding from!!
I'm confused about how it works - do you get paid as a proportion of what the turbine generates, or do you get a fixed amount off every kWh you use? If you had a battery and bought all your power at the 6 or 8p/kWh off-peak rate, would you still get 3p off each unit? I think it's worth mentioning that Ripple say repeatedly: "ownership should never be seen as a financial investment". Rather than looking at the ROI, it's probably better to look at it in terms of how much carbon emission you prevented, especially when many offsetting schemes are just scams.
Hi Robin, it took me a while to get my head around too. The payment is saving on every kWh your portion of the wind turbine generates, i.e. the wind turbine generates some electricity, it is sold to the grid for 6p per kWh, there are costs associated with running the wind farm, let's say 2p per kWh, so members get 4p per kWh as a saving on electricity bills... if the turbine generated 1000 kWh in a day, and my membership was 1% of the turbine, that would be 10 kWh * 4p per kWh, i.e. 40p savings. Savings are delivered monthly based on generation, rather than based on your usage. Completely agree it shouldn't be seen as a financial investment, or at least purely that, it is a lifestyle choice to help support the low carbon transition, as well as getting some savings in the long term! Thanks for engaging with the video Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Thanks, that's actually fairly simple now you've explained it. You get a share of the profit from the turbine, and it's not really linked to your energy use, except to limit the size of share you can buy.
Interesting, thanks for sharing..I didn't realise you got a dashboard with it too. Though other videos I watched last year said similar, the returns aren't great. I'm not sure what the average lifespan of a turbine is tbh but how long do ripple knock money off your bills for? If you put enough in to get 100% back (say £5k)then over a lifetime that would be a steal!
What do you estimate yor rate of return is for your £2000+ investment in % terms, would one be better investing in a green energy etf? Haven't researched those yet but if the rate of return is much less than 3% the Building society looks safer and more predictable ok there is no greeness feeling.
That is a question I do not know the answer to, one for Ripple to answer I guess...! Although I would question the desire to go off grid, the grid is a fantastic resource that gives us a lot of flexibility and minimises what we would need to do as individuals. To go off grid, we would need a huge amount of resource (batteries, PV, turbine etc...?) to power a home, where we can share that resource with others when we are on the grid... Tom
Very true, although installation cost for a solar panel would be a bit higher than £150. Particularly if on a roof with scaffolding, plus the inverter, and electrical installation to domestic system.... so £640 for 343 watts isn't that bad....
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle good point. I suppose that unlike solar it is also 343 watts of constant generation, though it looks like you can't realise the full value of that in terms of bill offset. Wish the government allowed us to fully benefit from remote generation - that would be game changing.
Would a comparable investment be to buy shares in wind turbine/solar funds using an ISA wrapper? Are they out there, or is it just companies? £2k in shares would offer a faster return, more risk and be more liquid. Would it feel as good though?
I am sure there are financial products out there that would have more investment income, and some that will specifically invest in renewables, i have invested very small amounts in things like Bristol Energy Coop and Abundance Investment in the past…. But absolutely, the ripple cooperative has a feel good factor of joining thousands of others in supporting renewables, understanding exactly your contribution to a new turbine, and seeing savings on your bills, feels very different to interest on an ISA!
I am hoping that we will see more generation in the winter, you're probably right that investing in your own system would be more impactful, although maybe more costly...? There are definitely benefits to Ripple in terms of taking it with you if you move, no disruption at home.... but it is not a perfect scheme!
I was thinking of investing but was old that pay back would take 15 years which means that solar and batteries pay back sooner. But one can invest as you say less money than a solar system would cost.
Hoping that winter generation will be higher. I had not clocked a late payment though - some discussion on the community forum on this with people expecting it in the next couple of days... I guess we get it when we get it!
The only way these investments will work is if electricity prices rise in the future. Which is the exact opposite of what the green agenda says, it says electricity will come down in price with more renewables. So it's either A lie and more renewables increases prices. Or Your investment will take many more than the estimated 20yrs to pay itself back.
Hi Robert, schrodingers electricity price, going up because of renewables, and coming down because of renewables...! The brown agenda wants you to rely on fossil fuels from dodgy regimes so they can keep making billions from you each year... I am happy to have some uncertainty on electricity costs if we can get rid of the filth in the energy system!
@@Robert-cu9bmFrance invested in nuclear a long time ago, whereas we are only just transitioning to wind and solar plus storage. So at present costs are expectedly higher. So, is France now building more nuclear or going to solar / wind? (I don’t know)
