forgot to mention within the stability section: ftip grip is just a more unstable style in general, and the light weight + strange weight distribution within your hand + inability to engage palm contact makes it much harder to use in games that stress stability far more than other aiming skills, like tacfps. this is for similar reasons as to why top players can use absurdly low sens and minimal wrist/ftip engagement within those games. not inviable in all likelihood, but more difficult to be consistent with for sure.
my friend told me about gunfire reborn like a year ago and i had the exact opposite reaction cuz i thought it was a smaller game lol, I saw this guy and was like "YOU KNOW THIS GAME EXISTS???"
I definitely agree with you in that the HSK Pro shape is so good for pure fingertip grip. Much better than the M2K. The way to get more arm involved is lowering your sensitivity a bit. Supposedly G-Wolves will come out with a HSK Pro 8K with USB-C and even a slightly bigger HSK Pro, which would be interesting.
For me, this mouse is incredibly comfortable with my 19x10 cm hands. I use a fingertip grip with my fingers on M1 and M2 overhanging, and I highly recommend trying it. No full-size mouse lets you use this grip it like this without turning into a claw grip, and that’s where the true strength of fingertip mice lies.
Another problem that people have is they extend their ring and pinky (and keep it that way) and don't use the full ROM at all and while it's still defined as "fingertip grip", they aren't using the full advantage of fingertip grip then they complain that mice like the HSK Pro/M2K are "too small".
i recently swapped to the xtrfy mz1 and after full palm gripping my whole life, this mouse required me to swap grip to a more claw/fingertip grip, and my biggest issue was despite the mouse being smaller, the lack of range of motion in the fingers like you explained hurt me in games where i tended to use my finger more. like in osu. in osu, i use my arm, wrist, and fingers, for various lengths of adjustments and i found myself struggling with more micro stuff and id end up essentially cupping my mouse in my hand. these mice seem like it could be a neat middle ground for me, and could solve my issue. once again thank you for the nice, chill, and informative video
@@Sellid1 I can't palm grip my MZ1 like I could say a Razer Viper. I need the hump in the middle for me to palm grip, and on the MZ1 it's at the back. It naturally makes me claw or hybrid claw/ftip.
Thank you for making this video, Ive tried finger tip on a x2 mini and it felt so different that I was discouraged to get past the learning curve. Flicking I had no problem adjusting to but it was the tracking that noticeably worse then my usual claw grip. I'll try for now with my x2 mini but might spring for the Keychron M4 :D
Have you tried the ULX Small? I've found that I was able to reach a happy medium of stability and micro agility even in tacfps. I do have an OP1 for reference and it is noticeably more stable, however I do think my microadjustments (hard to tell in game, but definitely in isolated aim trainer tasks) are worse with claw style mice. Really interesting thoughts btw, I feel like I've gone through a lot of the same trains of thought/doubts/conclusions being a relatively niche ftip user in a tacfps game. Good to know I'm not crazy or alone for experiencing some of these quirks.
When I found this video I thought you had copied june 😭 That funny realisation aside, these styles of reviews where you use the product actively as a backdrop to the review and do live commentary over are very satisfying. You’re also the reason I’ve recently purchased Gunfire Reborn so thanks for that, been loving the game. Keep up the good work, and don’t be afraid to do you 👍
Hsk was such a nice experience. I later switched to the zerømouse, for the real pinky support but I still miss the low button height. Nowadays I play the OP1 8k, the quality of the clicks and the stability is so great it obliterated the Ftip mice outta the way. I can still Ftip the OP1 but then I lose the low button height. Your vid is kinda making me want to buy an HSK again tho
i’ve been using mine for a year and it actually completely solved my RSI because of how light it is and finger tip grip stopped me using my wrist to flick as much, i also use mouse accel to speed up flicks so i don’t do wide flicks with my wrist anymore, overall i’d recommend this mouse to anybody with wrist problems who is interested in a finger tip grip mouse, I love mine so much, never going back! also they just released a new 8k hz version with a different shape and even lighter, so maybe try that :)
@@pinguefied I think wide mize are the way to go. They are more comfortable to grip - for sideways micro adjustment you move your wrist anyway. I expect the htx mini to be perfect for knuckle claw grp - esp with short fingers.
I bought the hsk+ because I have pretty small hands (16.9 x 9.5cm) and play left handed and there weren't really many options of small mice that I could use left handed. The only issue i've had with it is the fact that I can't do any grip that allows fast clicking. I can't really play gridshot anymore because of it. I recently also wanted to try out Beat Aim but while playing it I noticed that not being able to grip the mouse in a more stable grip that allows playing high bpm with a single shoot keybind really held me back from playing certain songs.
for me the most important factor is comfort, if the mouse cannot be held naturally in a comfortable way for me you will end up playing worse and worse. then there are a lot of factors, the game, the sensitivity, the size of your hand, the size of the mouse etcetc. me as far as I'm concerned, there are times when I flick where I can't release the tension in my hands and I can't find a solution to the problem of stability. If someone finds it natural and comfortable to use a small mouse with a fingertip grip, in my opinion with allanement they can overtake all downsizes with training. i try for 2 weeks the M3K and i dont it comfortable (my hand size: 18.5x9cm) so i back to my MZ1 but i ordered op1 8k so im waiting to get that lol
Alright, I use this exact mouse and love it, but I was about to give up on it a month ago until I completely changed my grip on it. The LARGEST PROBLEM BY FAR with finger tip grip (for me) is that the sensor is constantly rotating while moving the mouse around. This was horrible in osu. The rotation of the mouse changed constantly and it made it absolutely impossible to get consistent with it. Even if it's slight, it might be +10% one moment and -5% the next moment. Awful. The next biggest problem is that as I did lots of vertical movements, like vertical jumps, my fingers would crawl their way up the mouse until they were off the mouse and my grip was ruined. No amount of grip tape would fix this problem. I fixed both of these problems by placing my index+middle+ring fingers in front of the mouse (very edge of the buttons) and shoving the back of it into the outside of my palm (into my pinky kind of). I still get a lot of freedom of movement, but it's restricted enough that it can't rotate and my fingers can't crawl off the mouse. I nearly look like I'm palming it, but it has much more stability and freedom than a normal palm grip mouse. It looks dumb but this is now the best aiming experience I've ever had.
sometimes when i use the scrollwheel on this mouse i move the mouse instead of getting the wheel to rotate, i feel like lighter clicks and scroll wheel would do this mouse very well. The force you need to grip it with feels like it's just a little bit higher than what i would naturally want to use.
I have exactly the same style of ftip as you, but my hands are 20x11,5, so i can ftip every mice. For some time i was maining x2h medium with ftip and it was fun. So for me most ftip mice are just too narrow or short in height. I ordered M5 to test, because it's the only big enough ftip mice for me. I'm also interested in HT-S2 and i also ordered Scyrox V8. For my hands it's really difficult to find the exact shape that would be the most stable in aim AND comfortable.
My current mouse is a Lamzu Atlantis mini and its one of the smallest ive used, but I feel like I could go smaller. I dont see many smaller mice that arent fingertip so I was thinking about trying one out, specifically the HTR because of the hump maybe allowing for a cope knuckle claw if fingertip wasnt for me. Watching this has made me think I should just go all or nothing, especially for the price because im unlikely to buy a HSK if the HTR doesnt feel right, and the HTR might be a bad first impression of fingertip mice because it seems fairly bulky. Id like to see some type of review/first impressions of the HTR from you but I might have bought a HSK by then lol.
I use the keychron m4 and i heavily agree with the arm engagement being more difficult especially in scenarios where you would transition from wrist to arm or arm to wrist often and when i use the beastxmini its easier (I use glass skates on both as well with fingertip) but this overall has helped me become better overall cus with the beastxmini my micros cant get close without using a larger cm/360
After I got mine HSK Pro nothing compare to it, I will get new mouse from time to time use it for few hours and always go back to HSK Pro. I am still trying to get HTR but HSK is my main gaming mouse and will be for many more days, months, years.
agreed, that was the one thing i feel like i forgot to talk about. in games where stability matters more than everything else, fingertip mice are much harder to justify for the same reasons pros can get away with absurdly low sens and minimal wrist/finger engagement
watched the first bit of this at work and was like "damn i might need to get a fingertip mouse". so now i'm back and taking notes trying to figure out what to get :P side question: i'm sure you've heard of the ragnok before - have you / do you know anyone who's actually used it and not just bought it as a reviewer gimmick?
hahaha that's rly cool :D it seems like you would completely forgo any ability to make fine motions with your fingers using that mouse, i don't really see it being viable
boardzy has big hands and is also kinda an elitist nerd (I know hes joking 99% of the time but it does seem like he still thinks his opinion is paramount.)
Now they are going to release an 18 gram mouse, 8khz polling rate, 3950hs, it will be similar to the shape of the hsk pro 4k(we guess) and they are going to call it hsk pro 8k or some shit like that, the absolute god tier.
@@pinguefied Yeah xd, that's the worst part, I have to buy a 350mah or 500mah battery to make it more optimal, although it weighs about 3-5 grams more.
@@Sellid1 sadly it feels like only the weird companies are willing to take such big risks on shape :( there are more ftip mice entering the market but they're all much bigger than the hsk pro
I wish the Cooler Master MM720 was wireless. It is a good middle ground for claw and fingertip grip. If you have big hands it is so good for fingertip.
I tried using a foot pedal as ads LOL i had to return it cuz it was broken, otherwise i probably wouldve kept using it, it was stupid fun to use for heavy in tf2, foot pedal to rev minigun and spacebar to fire
I used to personally use a lot smaller mice and fingertip grip a long time ago with the steelseries kinzu (I know still not a true fingertip mouse) but nowadays use the deathadder V3 pro. Probably would be interesting to experiment back but the small form factor gets a bit uncomfortable for tact fps which I moved to from TF2 a long time ago. Do you recommend any mouse to ease into before going full mouse without any way of palm contact? Great discussion btw.
sadly did the mods quite a while ago. had one with diy base cuts, battery swap, switch swap, and some painting. second one that i kept has the same except a base swap i got off etsy and no aesthetic mods.
I ENJOYED this video, take my sub. Btw. Q: Are you planning to try the HTR? I have one and it's kinda interesting. A bit bigger, also somewhat ergonomic. Idk if I prefer it over the HSK Pro.
@@pinguefied I have the HTR not pro. The shape is bigger definitely. Makes more sense to me since my hands are big. The shape though has the weird 'V'-shape like the M2K so if you don't like that this might not be for you.
@@pinguefied It's an amazing mouse and tbf I haven't given it enough of a chance. I do feel like more of that 'pen' style aiming on my HSK Pro though. Excited to hear your thoughts. Speaking of pen, I do own the Titan-1. I would be up for letting you try it out if you want since it's honestly just sitting on my shelf atm. sadly. I don't have enough spare time and my main game is PUBG where I need wireless and sidebutton. HMU if interested.
with the keychron m4 wouldnt the higher sensor position kinda be ideal for someone who wants a fingertip because of the extra ROM of the fingertips or is it that its too exaggerative
@@FriesVL it doesn't bother some people at all and you can get used to it, but it added a feeling of strangeness and unintuitiveness i found difficult like with a different x/y sens at least it's something that always affects you and feels consistent, just different. but having the sensor move faster than i expect to based on how much wrist movement is involved is trickier, especially when i have used so many mice but for sure, if it sounds like a good thing to you can likely get totally used to it and never run into issues
What are your thoughts on different types of mouse gripping like me for example, I have this “weird” form of holding and clicking on the mouse by using the third muscle in my fingers and I’m not sure if it’s less efficient than a regular form of mouse gripping methods
Does wrist pain/uncomfortability tend to go away the longer you finger tip? Because I really want to like fingertip grip. When I tried it on the OP1 it felt freeing as hell! It just hurt my wrists or made them a bit sore. So I am curious if this improves with time or not since the OP1 is such an insane shape for fingertip grip for me. Otherwise, might see about putting the OP1 8K PCB + Cable into the GPX shell somehow XD. Good vids as always 👍
yeah it did for me! even without my dumb mods, getting used to the hsk pro made the vast majority of my pain go away. still a bit harder to have long sessions in stuff like kovaaks but in normal gameplay it's not a problem for me at all
can you still comfortably rest your pinky on mice like that? im using the viper v2 pro and my pinky naturally rests perpendicularly to just under the power/dpi button on the bottom of the mouse, jw if thats too low to be using mice like these
i think any cm will do, but the role they play will be different based on what sens you use. - if you use something really low, your fingers will be more in charge of micros and other fine adjustments. - really high and you'll be doing most of the aiming with your fingers. - medium sens and they can be involved with every mouse movement to different degrees.
I have pretty big hands, even my hyperx pulsefire haste feels quite small and I usually only use my fingers to hold and control it so I feel like a fingertip mouse would just feel odd for me
i hope you can help me understand why the htr feels so clunky to me once you try it, to me it feels like i lose ALL the precision the hsk gives me but i keep the instability so its just horrible to play with. i THINK it might be the button height but i cant rlly put it into words
@@pinguefied naw, i havent found any applications for it it. might use it on the hsk bc i wanted it wider so i put griptape on and now there is just a hole from my pinky...
@@Juji-w4s i haven't tried one yet but it's quite similar to the hsk plus, which i think is a very safe entry point into ftip mice. on sale it's a nice option!
literally bought an hsk (wired sadly) today because some people from the mouse only osu community told me my extreme fingertip grip is stupid and i should just switch to fingertip mice
@@pinguefiedthanks for the reply. for me the fingertip grip is a grip so much potential still inepressed due to lack of experience from players, however, in my experience it lacks comfort. With my hands 18.5x9cm I found uncomfortable all the ftipgrip mice I tried (zerømouse, m4 pro and zaunkoenig m3k) in some I simply had to force the mouse to stay between my hands (m3k and m4 pro) others I was afraid of breaking them (zerømouse), I am at the conclusion that the mobility that the fingers of your hands grant you and the precision of the polpastes are super precise as well as fast, but they lack stability, which can be trained, but the lack of comfort and naturalness for me make it unjustifiable. This experiment taught me a few things that I want to report: there is no one grip better than the other but it depends in the first place on comfort and naturella, and yes I am I can implement the characteristics of all that you positive in the personal grip (in fact I use a strange combo of claw and fgtip grip with a mz1 while I wait for the OP1 8k to arrive lol) so my advice to those who are undecided is don't think too much about it, find something comfortable and practice and sooner or later you will find your endgame lol
