20 Seconds to Save It: How an Impulsive Pilot Caused a Fatal Crash Revised 

Sorry. He didnt deserve to die. The FAA and Atlas need to explain how he was flying when he would "push buttons" when under a stressful work load.

@@afdkj it only relates to a low pay requirement. Airlines can find competent black pilots in the U.S. as well, if they want greater diversity in their workforce, but that comes at a higher price tag.

@@afdkj Amen!!

Everytime he skipped flying under the hood because he said Dats Racissst!

The Athletic Dept. ignorant statement,, I see a fool liberal here

"on my instruments like a hawk" you said a mouthful there, good job

Yup, that weird feeling like going completely in a different direction as like completely sideways at 150 knots forward.

On youtube I am an expert in every subject

Ha, you could however have an interest in aviation and know what he's talking about regardless of official flying ability.

Try Flight Simulator 2020 and watch some tutorial videos, I've heard that counts :-P

Hahahaha yep

" Ah, yes, of _course_ (

The NTSB is one of the last places you'll see facts over feelings.

@@redcat9436 why do you say that?

Stefan van Loon He’s watched too many movies

@@alexanderzerka8477 He means feelings over facts.

@@737driver He meant feelings over facts.

Well said.

I guess you're being funny. He needed a visual aide like a revoked license.

@@edsupinski7039 Yeah ,i hope he's ironic cause the "some sort of visual aid to tell him what the plane's actual pitch was" is the big colorful instrument in front of FO's nose, the Attitude indicator with the artificial horizon, as we all know.

FFS! Exactly! I can still hear the advice "Trust your instruments!"

Does the cockpit window count?

Or at least trust your artificial horizon over all other instruments in IFR. Too many incidents have happened where the pilots assumed that the failure of one of their instruments meant _all of them_ failed.

Peppy Hare!

you can't do that. he is 'special'. Get it ???

@@dks13827 So, you're saying he had "the right stuff"...

You can't fire basketball-americans nowadays, no matter what the reason is. I had to say basketball-americans because this platform automatically censors any comment that includes the word describing a specific color. Here's a hint: it's not blue pink or green.

Academia and government trip over each other to hire people, just like him. Soon the airlines plan on the same.

Amazon was booming during Covid...don't think pilot's were being laid off. On the contrary, probably they were in desperate need of more of them. Maybe for that reason the Airline just took a chance on him, who knows ?

I don't think it was an accident. He followed a very unusual series of steps you would almost have to plan out. Suicide by airliner.

​@@xxxxxxxxxxxx_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The evidence presented strongly points to either suicide or severely irrational psychotic behavior. But I don't think anyone else is willing to agree to that. They just want to say poor skills and poor screening of those poor skills, because it's more fun to say.

@@Bill_Woo Yeah I am quite puzzled at the absence of this discussion. Even the timing was perfect. Some might think closer to the ground would be better, because less reaction time from Captain. However Captain would be hyper-focused during landing and most liked would prevent deviations. This was perfect time - right when flaps would be expected, so aircraft pitching would not alert the Captain, and also when Captain was distracted on the radio.

and I'll add to this. Has anyone ever seen another pilot, student, private, or a pro accidentally negative G the airplane? We have all seen an accidental unloading, maybe to a little less than 1 g (like 7/8ths G or so), but to keep pushing into the negative G range by accident?

If you see that (apart from aerobatic flights), you're dead within seconds. But there are several recent similar cases with serious nose-down crashes after go-arounds. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flydubai_Flight_981 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan_Airlines_Flight_363 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armavia_Flight_967 In all these cases, the pilot flying became partically incapacitated by stress factors after the go-around. We sit here, looking at thsi horrible nose dive developing, however the PF did not have the same mental picture as us, possibly not scanning his instruments, or scanning, but unable to comprehend what they show. They all died without knowing what killed them, even if the AI is right in front of them.

That may be true, but the question is, how do you prevent that person from being in that seat at that time? In this case, the system almost worked as intended right up until it didn't work at all.

@@afdkj Again here you are expunging something you have no proof to back up. Just because he was black does not mean he was a diversity hire.

@@afdkj Well clearly I must be, so please prove me wrong. Please tell me where amongst the 71 documents and 2279 pages of the NTSB docket that you claim to have read, I can find where it states the FO was a diversity hire?

Or in *_ANYTHING with wings,_* that flies, for that matter!

@@jeffreyjones7529 Racists have to be dickheads. They always have to cry that somebody else is doing better than themselves. I have seen that "diversity hire" BS on the NTSB video as well. The pilot's name was not even mentioned in this video so they are bouncing around the videos spouting their garbage that there cannot even be evidence for. Do companies have that as the reason a person is hired? If it is not stated in the company file, I don't know why it would be, they are just regurgitating garbage they believe. Perhaps the authors of those intentionally false statements are so incompetent themselves that is the excuse they use to attack people.

That was way funnier than it should have been.

Jules Aska: I'm MCAS

Looking forward to randomly stalling out at full speed in MFS2020.

Look at me. I’m the MCAS now.

@@deadeyeduncan5022 Stall has nothing to do with speed alone. It’s a matter of AoA.

Incompetence exists everywhere. If people knew the stories I have, both first and second hand about commercial aviation, many of them would never want to fly again. My cousin who's a nurse says the same about medicine. It's amazing we all fare as well as we do through this chaotic world.

@@jacobshaw808 very well said, unfortunately. The proportion of truly competent doctors/pilots/lawyers etc. is the same as the proportion of competent contractors/plumbers/barbers etc.... i.e. probably ~25-50%. A sobering thought, and a sad reflection of the rapidly falling standards for "high-skill" professions.

lol

underated xD

yep he was

Imagine him piloting a 737 MAX. That thing would be a giant lawn dart.

you beat me to the joke, by a month

I’ve overheard a couple phone conversations (one half anyway) of inquires about whoever was applying for a job somewhere. They were told that Jon Doe was always late, no show, alcoholic, complete moron, good at x type work but not x, or is lying about experience. Myself and another employee told our boss don’t hire x full time and send him out by himself because he wasn’t ready for it. He did it anyway. Later x was fired because he couldn’t do his job correctly and had caused all kinds of maintenance issues on the aircraft. Luckily no one was killed, but you cannot expect someone to be successful if you set them up for failure. Telling the boss “I told you so” isn’t popular either.

You canʻt do in the states (at least some) either and thatʻs part of the issue here.

Maybe, just maybe, privacy should take a backseat when it comes to choosing a pilot that's not going to crash a plane and kill a bunch of people potentially. Same deal with the Germanwings pilot who committed suicide and took over 100 people down with him. Because of health information privacy restrictions, his doctor couldn't tell the airline that he was not fit to fly. Even during the investigation, they withheld any relevant information from authorities, again due to the same privacy restrictions, even though the pilot and over 100 people were already dead. I do think privacy is essential in most cases, but I think these scenarios highlight the fact that it can be problematic and lead to fatalities.

In the area of USA where I live, the code phrase is to ask “Would person X be eligible for rehire?” “No, he would not be eligible for rehire.”

OS 77 Code word Whiskey Delta?

A lot of people seem to get 'mercy passed' as you describe in various professions where there can be critical incidents and a certain level of aptitude is required... I know for my job, at our academy there were a few people who were downright dangerous yet eventually passed... basic things such as inability to communicate coherently over a radio in a stressful situation or safely handle a firearm on a range, yet they get passed for compassionate reasons as they've just spent months training at an academy. All well and good until it all hits the fan

He was black. I see this happening on a regular basis.

ATP FLYING ACADEMY is sending them out by the truck load! Just wait!

@@avfan967 not true

That one still boils my blood, guy kept pulling up without thinking it through. The other one was Colgan flight 3407 where the guy ignored the stick shaker two or three times that he was stalling but he kept pulling up. Piloting is a human skill and too many humans, quite frankly, suck at it.

447 had iced up instrument sensors that were giving them bad data.

@@colin-nekritz Iced up instrument sensors on 447. Not an excuse but there was something. Unlike this one

Everyone is forgetting Atlas is not just a cargo airline.

I'm not a pilot, but long time interested in the aviation industry. My understanding, is that for a stable aircraft design, i.e. a passenger plane, it will recover from a stall by itself, (if you let go of the yoke). Some will say that this plane was too low to the ground to do that, but pushing full nose down is hardly likely to have improved the situation from the plane righting itself.

@@axelBr1 I can't understand the overreaction even if the plane did stall. The first thing I'd do (and I'm not a pilot, I'm just flexing my intuition) would be to doublecheck that stalling sensation in the first place. With just a little training, all you need to do is to glance the airspeed indicator, that would be my first check from what I understand, then look at the artificial horizon to recalibrate my senses. In just two seconds I would, and I'm a complete noob and not even a car driver (though I know how to drive), regain confidence and full control over my flight profile. So the question is who was this guy and how the hell he got into that cockpit? Is the industry letting just about anyone? That's not nice. I get so angry sometimes. This incapacity to understand what's going on with the plane reminded me of that Russian major flying a transcontinental line, and letting his son inadvertently partially deactivate the cruising autopilot while everybody was asleep. It's a violation of basic rules, sure, but what killed me was that this guy, admittedly a top pilot with decades of flight experience, had all the time in the world, yet didn't possess any intuition regarding the electronic systems. The autopilot had three independent parts, one of which got deactivated by accident, and the full-auto was the main mode of flight at the moment. Once the plane began to roll slightly, my first reaction would be to check the system -- and clearly observe that one of the three indicators in a row was turned off, after which I would simply turn off the system in its entirety and back on -- sadly this procedure would save all 300 passengers from a horrible death of which they were perfectly aware, tumbled upside down until the very last moment the plane smashed into the mountain in the midst of nowhere in a pitch black night. Though, to be frank, whoever retrofitted such a plane with this system should've made it clear with a sound indicator that the autopilot was partially disengaged. Who needs such a silent feature anyway? Manual roll override should either disengage the full-auto completely, or at least demand some sort of attention to cater to the old-school pilots who seemingly don't really understand the basic operating logic behind any such hardware. Well at least this clown didn't kill 300 people...

@@milanstevic8424 RU-vid has been recommending a lot of similar videos, the common theme of these accidents is that people act instinctively but that is not correct. One video was about stalls during go arounds and how the pilot, if surprised by needing to go around, yanks back on the yoke, (to make the plane go up), when in fact increasing power (and then speed) is what makes the plane go up. And a lot of crashes are due to the pilot focussing on a small detail rather than flying the plane. (I saw 1 video about a pilot who was trying to re-engage the auto pilot when the plane was at a 55 degree bank angle.) And then there is the Air France flight that crashed off Brazil and apparently as the plane was descending towards the sea the co-pilot was saying that the plane was stalling and yanking back on the control column.

@@milanstevic8424 Yeah, instinctual reactions are often wrong. There is in fact, some element of training to get you to NOT spontaneously react to things, take some time to truly assess what's happening, and then make a calmer, better judgement. I do in fact both drive a car and have flown a plane and I can tell you that it's not that similar. In a car, fast reactions can save you, because the difference between safety and colliding with something can be less than a second, especially if you're careless with procedures like safe following distances and the like (which many drivers are because they fail to see how dangerous what they're doing is) In a plane, it's very rare that you'll be in a situation where reacting in a split second will matter, and if your instincts are wrong, you'll do more harm than good anyway. Plus, since you seem to lack practical experience with things, you underestimate the panic reaction to strange sensations, especially when you know in the back of your mind that a mistake could get you killed. My first experience with stall training for instance... Regular stalls aren't that bad. But we soon followed that up with an accelerated stall with wing drop. This is when only one wing loses lift. In the span of about a second the aircraft suddenly rolled 90 degrees to the left, and feeling the sudden lurch, the sensation of falling, and the sudden roll to the side was pretty distrurbing. The instructor demonstrated it, did the recovery, reminded me how the recovery worked... But even though I knew it was coming... When he did it a second time, where I was supposed to recover the plane, I panicked and did the recovery before he'd even finished stalling the aircraft. On the plus side, what I did in my panic was correct recovery procedure. On the downside, the panic reaction is unhelpful and potentially dangerous. And plus, because I pre-empted it, we had to do it a third time... Point is, don't underestimate your own reaction to something that if you screw it up badly enough can kill you. It's easy to say you'll just calmly notice and react appropriately. But what that tells me is you've never actually properly been in a life-or death scenario. OK, so the odds of me dying by screwing up stall recovery during pilot training with a competent instructor present to take over if it really goes wrong are low. But they aren't zero. There genuinely IS a risk of death here, and that DOES influence your reactions. It's easy to say you can do it right, but that's meaningless if you've never been confronted with it for real...

Wow. I'm stressed just reading your account. I believe you about needing a nap afterwards!

That's about how my first time flying single pilot IFR went! I was flying a Bonanza with tip tanks that give it a notoriously good roll rate. Maybe 1 minute into IMC, and I'm looking at the left wing for possible traces of icing. Back at the instruments, I had entered a 10 degree right handed bank. I corrected it, leveled off at my planned step climb altitude, and flew it another 850 miles to the destination; culminating in the most beautiful circle-to-land procedure of my life.

@@noonedude101 you know I'm a VFR student pilot, I want to go to IFR, but all of sudden being VFR doesn't sound too bad.

@@mikhailhunter5277 It was really not bad or difficult. It was just a little different than being under the hood, and took a few minutes of getting used to. I find IFR flying to be way easier than VFR flying. No airspace to worry about, not nearly as much traffic to worry about, defined procedures as opposed to vague techniques. Once it clicks, its so much easier than VFR!

It’s what killed JFK Jr, John Denver, Kobe Bryant, etc. etc. Pilots who never learned IFR until it was too late. Good thing you did.

Check out blancolirio

"There could be" What's with you people using It / it's in place of there / there's? It's not interchangeable. It stops making sense.

@@Connection-Lost made sense to me

You got that right.

He was using something in that general area. Wasn't the seat of his pants and it certainly wasnt his brain.

Trouble is that recovery from unusual attitudes during instrument training isn't the same as real life. Firstly, there isn't any stress, because you know you can't die, because you know you've got an instructor sitting next to you. (Yes I do know that instructors do kill people, but I've always had the feeling that *my* instructor wasn't about to kill *me*, and it's that feeling that counts.) Secondly, you know it's a game. For example, I heard no change to engine note and felt no acceleration in any direction. So I knew he must have put us into a spiral dive. So when I opened my eyes all I had to do was take half a second sussing out whether it was to the right or to the left. Or, the time when he had as going really quite fast, but with a high pitch angle - trying to fool me into reducing power because of the high speed, but I added power because of the rapidly *decreasing* speed, again after watching the dials for half a second.

This. For real. How did this dude with allegedly raging case of Dunning-Kruger KEEP a license? That is the actual issue this crash points at. Not HRʻs failings. Not piloting skills because literally avoidable by donʻt freak out and you wonʻt die, an appropriate personality for a pilot. Why do licenses work this way so that these failures arenʻt reported and shared even though they were supposed to be in some form already since the Colgan accident.

Airline flying is the SAFEST mode of transportation. No room for PC.

CRJ: Check this out. 15 years ago I was employed as a DC-10 captain (I'm retired now, thank God). I had a grossly incompetent 1st officer on a cargo flight from Dubai to Ostend, Belgium. This person had an extremely poor training history & it was a well known fact that she was very weak. 30 minutes out of OST she started her approach briefing for Brussels, not Ostend. It's worth noting that this was in her 3rd year of employment, so it's not like she just got off of IOE. I had to call "BS" on her twice before she realized that she was briefing the wrong approach at the wrong airport. She had to audacity to try & blame this on the company for not properly organizing their approach plates (WTF!?). I brought this up with the DO & he basically blew it off. No way in hell was this girl going to be retrained or terminated & it was common knowledge that if a captain was paired with her he was going to be single pilot the entire bid period. She failed captain upgrade twice & eventually moved on.

The famous "glass ceiling" :D

Was this FO a minority?

I tell you why they're anxious to get more diversity in hiring. It's because people like you do everything they can to keep minorities out of the industry, including badmouthing them just because of who they are.

@@ImpactWench diversity for the sake of diversity has no business in an industry where the lack of talent or merit translates directly to death toll.

On Avweb, I wrote a blog about this. A couple of people posted on the impact of privacy and diversity laws on the hiring, firing and reference process. One of the posters was sued as a result of this. I didn't address the diversity issue in the video or the blog not because of PC considerations, but because doing so would require facts not in evidence. Having said this, I'm not naive enough to believe diversity considerations have no conceivable role here. Maybe so, maybe not. In the end, for whatever reasons, the captain performed poorly with a first officer who was impulsive and minimally qualified. And in case you're not aware of it, the family of the deceased first officer sue Atlas and Amazon, claiming negligence for lack of training.

A/P and A/T were both engaged the whole way down. Even when pulled back, the A/T would still just command the thrust back to max as soon as the pilot lets go of the levers as it is trying to establish the 2,000 FPM climb in GA mode.

That is a training failure. One of the first events in a situation like this is to disengage the A/T and A/P . It is intuitive to controlling the a/c. Ask any pilot of these aircraft and look at the SOP's. The captain should have taken control and disengaged the A/T and A/P as his first command upon pulling back on the yoke.

Skip Wood couldn’t agree more.

Love it.

Salvador Rodriguez COD my friend, is serious business!

Exactly !!! It's way more likely that the Capt hit the GA. Yes, the Capt would have, at least, felt the opposite force, and yes, he would have said something. No, the yokes won't separate - technically you'd get a split elevator if both pushed in the opposite direction.

@@WeTubeIn90210 Per Juan's report on the details of the 767 elevator system, you can sheer the left and right yoke interconnect for the elevator that gives you the split elevator but now they're disconnected and it took over 50lbs of force to do it. See ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PQLT9GLDYt0.html about half way through.

@@jlorenz55 Concur and Agree. I'm looking at the Flight Control Systems now and the "Column Override" will shear causing the split elevator. I'll have to check out that link - thanks. You know, this further cements my opinion that the two pilots WERE NOT fighting over the controls. If you sit through the 4hr NTSB briefing, they make reference that the airplane showing a slight roll due to the Capt pulling the yoke in the opposite direction (one elevator up/one down). That's a completely false statement, IMHO. Finding that Column Override (sheared or intact) would've been a priority - they must have found it. The airplane rolling would've been backed-up with this evidence. I'd even open the possibility that the Capt is flying the airplane, at this point. This would explain why there wasn't a change of controls (I would’ve grabbed the controls as well) and it sheds light on his silence (he's busy fighting for his life). Of note: the data recorder only records the Captain's control collum not the FO's

@@WeTubeIn90210 Thanks for the reply, I enjoy the discussion

Be that as it may, your forgetting that Homer Simpson sitting next to him was the PIC, which means he's ultimately responsible for the flight.

@@jeffreyjones7529 Jar Jar and Homer in the cockpit: A perfectly terrifying metaphor in real life.

@@james_chatman Yes it is, terrifying and sad. I don't believe either of those men intended that outcome, and of course the poor third soul that had no control of his fate at that moment.

@Homo Quantum Sapiens While I can't disagree with his incompetence and lack of aptitude, my main point of even responding the OPs stereotyping comment by referring to him as "Jar Jar" was to point out that his stupidity was not alone in the cockpit. Could the PIC have averted this, we'll never know. Maybe another case of too much complacency on top of the lack of aptitude.

@Homo Quantum Sapiens Yes, there are! Tons of them. Luckily there are very few of them on *US Carriers* as they are very diligent in ferreting out these types. Nothing can be 100% foolproof, and in some rare occasions, someone does slip through the cracks.However, if you go to places like Asia, the middle east, and other 3rd world places, you will find TONS of these types! The training, skills, aptitudes of these so called "pilots" in these places, is terrifyingly poor, and if you pay close attention, you will notice that most of these "accidents" or "crashes" occur in that part of the world! Lion Air, Ethiopian 737 Max .....and the list goes on and on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they will blame Boeing and so on. But anyone with a brain the size of a pea, can tell, after carefully scrutinizing those incidents, that, while Boeing was at fault as well, those flights did not have to end up crashing. They were certainly recoverable, if only the pilots were *_COMPETENT!!_* Has anyone asked the question, how come not A SINGLE 737 Max crashed in the United States, even though it had been operating for SIGNIFICANTLY longer there, and had carried millions more passengers?? Think!! This is exactly why I will never let myself or my family ever step foot on one of these airlines in these 3rd rate places (good example that comes to mind: Pakistan Airlines with its 260 some odd pilots with fake licenses). www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/06/26/30-of-pakistani-pilots-have-fake-licenses-infographic/#6ab1a5601674

I've never flown in, much less piloted a plane. But some of these situations seem so black & white to me. You have TONS of info staring at you available to help you keep the plane airborne. Wings level? Check! Attitude "level"? Check! Speed appropriate? Check! Altitude appropriate? Check! Seems to me those 4 thing should let you keep the aircraft airborne till it runs out of fuel. All the other stuff is for taking off or landing. I know there are things like flaps & pedals that help make it easier to fly. But once you've reached an altitude that allows AP to take over, as long as you know "where you are", then keeping an eye on the above 4 things SHOULD keep you from an unexpected landing. YMMV. Don't take any wooden nickels. Dry between your toes. Etc, Etc...

it's a little more complicated than that ... remember AirFrance that crashed in the south atlantic ...

jamc666 Also, remember procedures. Their procedure said set power at 84% and 3-5° nose up to get the proper speed.

@@cmdmd ... as if virtual horizon never failed ...

jamc666 It is extremely rare. There are back ups. Plus, often, spatial disorientation is what kills often.

@tie oneon My dad says there were 3 types of student pilot. The ones who seemed to get it easily. They had an almost intuitive sense of how to make the plane do what they want. There is the student who doesn't have any natural ability but with enough work they can become good pilots. Then there are the students who, no matter how much they practice or how hard they work, they simply lack the ability to control the airplane safely. The first kind are pretty rare, as are the 3rd, the middle is by far the most common/ And intelligence seems to have nothing to do with it. You can have someone who is dumb as a post, but he is in the first group. Another guy might have 3 PhD's and is a leading expert in some scientific field, but he is in the 3rd group. It would be heart breaking to have the desire, but not the ability. I wonder how many have the ability but lack the desire?

True, but the incidents stemming from the former are vastly more common than from the latter, which is why pilots are told to rely on their instruments.

@@h8GW Well that and even with failure of an attitude indicator on a PFD, if they're scanning, a pilot should notice they're diving from increasing airspeed, decreasing altitude, a negative reading VSI, possibly wind noise, engine, etc. Keeping the backup AH in their scan would also be an instant tip-off. I've had an AH fail on me IRL, (steam gauge though), and you can still fly a plane in IMC with compass, airspeed, altimeter and turn coordinator. It sucks, and 2/10 would not recommend, but for these professionals it doesn't feel like "one instrument doesn't work" is a valid excuse for controlled flight into terrrain.

It is discussed at 9:45

@@AVweb I apologize for not acknowledging this was covered. However I stand by my comment as to why the power was not reduced once the a/c was in a dive as the two 737 max a/c were, as well. This is energy management. After many years of PIC in integrated automated a/c, click, click (autopilot, auto throttle off) solved many issues until sorted out. Has current training, common sense changed that? Paul, that could be a deep dive article for you. I love you, man.

Captain also didn't have a stellar training record

No surprise there, Brad. Many weak pilots are carried by their crew. When multiple weak crewmembers are are paired then the all the holes in the cheese line up and disaster occurs.

Diversity hire, it sounds like. Or else, if not a diversity hire, a company whose hiring practices are beyond negligent.

Piloting is weird that way. You have to get in planes and fly them with complete strangers

People like this have always existed. You just get 20 minute long RU-vid videos about all the ways they fucked up these days. Not long ago the only way you would have heard about this is if you actually got a physical report and read through it yourself. Go back a bit further and no one would have even known what happened. Now that high quality cameras are cheap, planet-wide distribution is free, advertising on the videos is easy to access, and the market for niche things like this exists (again due to the global nature of the internet) there's now access and motivation to content like this. Which is great, because this video would have *never* in a million years have been ran on any television network, they would have just said it's too boring.

the only difference is that homer simpson somehow pulls it off every time

@@woohooman-fl9vq Ha ha! There are a few Homers in the industry. Fortunately, very few.

@@lost4468yt In the past you also had a lot less buttons that could overwhelm people. Its much easier to understand something physical, like a sailing ship, compared to the cockpit of an aircraft, with a million buttons. I feel like it does take a bit of a specific mindset to deal with all that shit; some people just arent equipped for that. Doesnt even mean those people arent qualified for other, important jobs where they take responsibility. The bizarre thing is that they actually put him into a cockpit with his history.

Atlas is known for having some of the most extensive 76 training in the industry and many have been booted from training for far less. What wasn't mentioned in this report was how the FO threatened to sue for discrimination if he was let go. Many times.

@@postulify BINGO! thats what i wanted to hear EFFFFFF that noise for REAL...... surprised the pilots did "persuade" him to move on

@@postulify Please advise your source for this. Since you and several others want to lean on a racist explanation, I hope you can factually back this up.

@@afdkj I do work in a corporate environment and have for the last 20+ years. I am also a manager with direct reports and the irony to your racist statement is that a Hispanic woman on my team is the strongest member of my team. I have also worked at a business for ten years prior to that, that did not hire a single non-white person despite receiving applications from numerous people of color. What's funny to me about your argument, if you want to call it that as it hardly is, is that there would never have been affirmative action, if people like you weren't actively avoiding hiring minorities in the first place. You claim you want the right person for the job, but historically you wanted the white person for the job, regardless of who was better qualified.

@@afdkj And I'll ask the same of you as I did to OP. Where is your proof he was a diversity hire? If you know anything about the rigors of becoming an ATP, you would know that this is highly unlikely and it's based on your experience, qualifications and licensing. Was he a great pilot, clearly not given his history and circumstances, but one could easily say the same regarding the PIC as he was ultimately responsible for the FOs actions.

Just, there's a wide range of aviation experience on this thread - not sure how much of these operations you're familiar with. But, 20s and 6000' is a lot of time to react. In fact, that Capt had over 40s to respond, yet if you believe the NTSB report you wouldn't realize that even when the other guy is talking on the radios they are still tracking along with every aspect of that aircraft's flight path - it's not like one has to turn away to make a radio call.

@ihategoogle We are trying to discuss flying the a/c and you still want to go into the HR department. Another time, please.

It you read the docket, they are both poor pilots with weak records. If C is passing than the FO is a D- pilot and the CA was barely hitting C-. Both had been retrained during their time at Atlas because they didnʻt make it through the first round of training in some portion. To be honest, I question putting people with such weak records together to crew but that sounds like some of these carriers might not fly if they were that demanding.

Kim, most company dispatchers are told by their Operations Department who the weak pilots are and are instructed not to schedule them together. This has been an issue since the 50's.

Look at the instrument panel at all times and the artificial horizon,do not accelerate when within a cloud bank or decelerate to avoid somatogravic illusions

Penile girth?