I own a m235i xdrive and I have to completely disagree. This with a tune, coil overs, an optioned lsd, and a set of Michelin pilot sport 4s and you got yourself 90% of an m2 minus the wider track, chassis, and oil sump for track duty for 15k less. What tires are on the m235i you drove? Because that makes a huge difference in steering feel..
I recently bought a 2014 M235i as my first car. Only had 52k miles and was a great price so I figured why not? As someone who has driven their parents cars my whole life, none of which are fast, this is the perfect intro to an “enthusiast” car. Extremely capable in daily driving and seriously fast compared to an average car. Love the sound and feel of it too. Look for one of these if you’re new to BMWs and sporty cars for sure.
I bought mine a month ago too. 2014 as well, 43k miles. I’m coming from a slightly different direction as my last two cars were E60 M5 and then E92 335i. It needs a bit more power (easily fixed), and you should look into some reliability upgrades (look into the plastic OEM charge pipe to start with), but it’s a terrific little car.
BMW's M performance line is fast daily driver. it is not a "budget" M car. maybe thats poor marketing on their part but when you approach them that way, i think they're the best value BMWs
Steering on these cars can be significantly improved with M lower control arms (1.9 de camber) and poly bushings to replace the hydraulic unit on the thrust arms. BMW intentionally engineered slop into the steering and limited rear tire width to 245's. I have owned a M235 and presently daily an M240 (awesome B58 engine). Similar to your friend, my daily is an M240 and a GR86 is my fun, carving, track car. If you see a guy old enough to be your father in a Trueno Blue GR86, passing you on the track while grinning like an idiot.... That's probably me
As someone who bought a brz over m235i after trying both when shopping for wife car last, and now upgraded to m2, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say, bae zygrene. M235i felt like a heavy rwd gti.
@@SamNRacing 235 would be more refined, have a much more usable rear seat, better on highway with better power, but worse in every possible way that is related to the driving experience (dead steering, extra weight, open diff, not as focused/sharp/fun/tossable/agile etc.)
You could not be more wrong... The m235i is a incredible bargain and a incredible driver's car. You are driving a 2016 vehicle. By now the suspension needs refreshing as does the engine with a proper tune up and up keep. The m235i does earn that M badge easily. I have personally driven everything from foreign and domestic . And that m235i is a true sports car full of life full of fun.
I've driven a 2 series M-sport that was practically new, front and rear of the car are completely disconnected from each other, both bobble at their own rhythm. And the steering provides no feedback about the front end grip. Maybe it gets better without runflats, but all the bushings are soft and the steering rack is a different unit than that of the M2/3/4 (one is Thyssenkrupp, the other ZF, can't remember which is which). And the dampers are just cheap and lack any sort of sophistication. You can't even put the M2 in the same paragraph as the M235i for driving dynamics. You can finally start to work with the car and don't need to run a full kinematic simulation in your head to predict what the hell the 4 corners of the car are doing. And the M diff vectors you magically out of corners (can still feel a bit artificial, the way it chooses between optimal lock for forward thrust and optimal lock for skids, based on steering angle etc.). Not that the M2 is perfect. The suspension is not great, it's understeery without camber plates and the driving involvement falls short of most sports cars (Lotus, Porsche, Type R etc.) which is why I replaced it with an M2 CS after a year. That's IMO the best BMW can do in terms of suspension and steering calibration. The CS finally gives you confidence and clarity up to 10/10. Unfortunately the DCT is quite a bit more boring than the N55 + manual unless you are seriously pushing. So the search for the ultimate driving machine continues :)
@@grigorioschristodoulou5229 We agree to disagree.. The m235i is a bargain beast. The suspension is a proven platform on and of track. I have owned and raced just about everything this BMW is a true drivers enthusiast vehicle. The m235 was basically a prototype before the m2 was developed as bmw was fishing the market to see if the car would sell. To say it has not a m car is completely insane. It's better said the m2 would never exist without the m235i. You should research the m235i and it's components/ capabilities on and off track. Also the N54 was proven to major fuel injector failure.. Ignition failures HPFP FAILURE TURBO CHARGER ISSUES SPUN CRANKS. THEN THE REST OF MOST COMMON PROBLEMS SHARED BY ALL BMWS WASTER PUMPS COOLANT LINES PLASTIC CHARGE PIPE AND INLET. ETC ETC... overall bmw is a car for those who are capable of tuning and tooling their vehicles and who do regular maintenance. If one is not capable then do not buy one.
It’s an M performance engine. That’s what the M symbolises, fast daily nevertheless. I don’t think it should really be compared to an M2 for that reason. Good review though 👍
The guy drive on comfort mode all the video hahaha… when you turn off traction and stability control it automatically back to comfort mode :/ I believe the real M cars allow to turn off on sport, but the normals don’t.
I’ve had one a couple years and it makes a great daily focused all arounder car to go with something more spicy(in my case an S2000), Assuming you don’t need 4 doors, it gets 30+ mpg on the freeway, it has plenty of space for road trips(coming from an only S2000 garage here), it’s quiet and refined when you want it to be and the seats are great. If you find yourself on a backroad you can throw it in Sport+ to scratch the driving itch while you’re out and about. I agree it needs some mods to get the most out of the platform or a jump up the M2, but a near stock one has been a great companion to my S2000. Hoping to get the M Performance diff down the road to sort out the backend. And as you mentioned they are bargains. I bought my nearly fully loaded 2015 AT M235i ($52k sticker price) for $30k w/15k miles in 2018
Dutchie here, and a lot of people seem to sweep the price difference of these cars under the rug. Meanwhile, I just don't believe it can be shrugged off at all. You can get an M235i here for about 26 grand, but the cheapest M2 is gonna set you back a whopping 42500 - not even in the same league! So, so much more expensive.
I own a manual m235i and your review is pretty spot on. It's great as a daily and spirited drives. However it was kind of a sloppy mess when I tracked it -- still had lots of fun, but I could feel how unsettled it was when pushing it 9/10ths
@@jamielegg8553 "sloppy mess" is a little bit of an exaggeration. Note that my car is basically bone stock. The suspension isn't tight like a full M car, so you feel it flopping around when you're pushing the car super hard. An LSD isn't standard is is definitely felt when corning really quickly. The car also had some cooling problems after a few hours. None of these issues are really felt of on the street and it's really only a "mess" compared to more expensive performance cars, or dedicated track cars. This is also nitpicking an otherwise fantastic daily driver. Hope you enjoy your car!
Agreed, these are quite boring. BMW kinda lost me when they started throwing M badges on everything they make. I mean, an M-line would have made more sense.
They had too… Audi and Mercedes was throwing amg and S on all the mid model stuff and S line or whatever on base models making bmws lower stuff feel less special beside it didn’t have a special badge next to it. All marketing
Driven an over powered tuned M4, the M2 OG and competition, and daily a tuned m235i I will say that it’s not as thrilling as the M2 Competition (my favorite m car) or the M4 but it’s a great daily especially tuned. Tuning allows you to refine the characteristics to your liking and a lot can be done for comparatively little money. I prefer the full M cars on the track but for daily commutes a lightly tuned m235i with the zf8 is a great choice.
Thank you so much for this comment! I almost traded in my e92 335i for one of these today, and was hesitant to because I felt this exact same feeling, my 335i feels more solid in comparison
I had a 2017 M140i, spent thousands on it, tuning the engine, ZF8 box, major services every 7k miles, upgraded the brakes to m performance, always had pilot supersport tyres etc. I could have spent another £10,000 on an LSD, suspension and chassis mods, and it would still never be a real M car. I now have a 2016 OG M2, it is on another level ... steering, suspension, handling, ride, damping, cornering, sound, looks, it's a completely different and much better car.
I have to agree with this video in its entirety. Haven't driven the M235i specifically, but I did drive the very similar M240i several years ago, back to back with the then-new G20 M340i and F87 M2C. For context: at that point I'd been driving an E46 ZHP for about ten years, and had various M3s in the past (E46, E92). The M240i ranked last by a wide margin out of the group and on the whole I found it completely forgettable; frankly, there was nothing about it I particularly liked other than the cabin design (which it shares with the M2, obviously). Didn't buy any of them in the end, but that's another story for another day.
I had a tuned and modified M140i, great engine and gearbox, but that was all. No matter how much I could have spent on it, no amount would make it an M car. I now have an OG M2, the difference is night and day, the M2 is levels above.
The M140i/M240i is a much better base for tuning, much stronger engine and can make much more power from the same mods. The N55 doesn't respond to tuning half as much. I had a tuned M140i, and now own an OG M2.
I say 100% misnomer! I was dissapointed that BMW started diluting it's prestigious M “Motorsport” classification to sell budget daily coupes. The M235i is not “Motorsport” capable, so why give it that badge? IMO, BMW should stick to the i to signify a slightly sportier version of a commuter car like they always had. and save the M for something real.
Now we need to find you a 135i to review. Preferably DCT just to get your opinion on it as a driver’s car. Do you think a manual M235i would’ve won you over?
@@Topgear.filmer I ordered it in January 2023...and I still don't have it. It will be a year+ of waiting the way things are going. I'll let you know in a few more months!! 🤦
@@stupidmonkez I finally got the GR86 and the lightness and the balance is on another level. It just devourishes the corners and it is so much fun on canyon roads...but!!...a m235i or m240i is considerably faster on the highway for sure. Also the Toyota is not well assembled, a lot of rattles from the start, a lot of noises in the cabin. The BMW is probably a better all rounder but you forget all that when you get to the corners in the Toyota. In the end of day, absolutely no regrets. What a wonderful toy the GR86 is. 🥰🥰
Can't complain at the value for money on these M lite cars though. Significantly quicker than an E46 330 ZHP and the N55 is more reliable than the N54.
Couple of points you are reviewing a significantly older car at this point. You also seem confused about the different drive modes. DSC off is a specific mode, so you cant put it in sport mode, then turn off everything while in sport mode, DSC off sets the throttle control to being linear, like in comfort, sets the suspension to stiffest, and engages the eLSD. This is the only mode that uses the eLSD component, while not as good as an actual LSD it makes a significant difference. Secondly, an M235i which has its suspension in good working condition should not feel as sloppy as you described. I've driven both the M2 and M235i (and actually own a 235i) and while its not an M car, your review doesnt seem to be aligning with reality of what impression the F22 left on most people when new. Is the M2 a better car? Absolutely, but this review seems so odd....
You could not be more wrong.. A simple trans tune will fix whatever you believe lacks. The car has easily earned its M BADGE AND HONORS IT WELL. The m235i was basically a prototype for the m2 ..bmw used it to test the market . The car responds tremendously to tuning. I have personally owned just about everything there is other than high end exotics. Every single car has its own character....from front wheel drive All wheel drive Rear wheel drive. Turbo charged Natural aspirated Super charged Stick shift 6spd auto 8spd auto All tremendously performed well. I put no vehicle over the next as better. But I will say there are Drivers who either can drive and are very skilled . And drivers that are not who should never own a performance tuned vehicle.
Coming back to this video after your new f22 M240i xdrive video and because I just rented a manual rwd 2018 m240i - you’re so right man. I have a e90 335i rwd 6MT sport pack with the m perf power kit and exhaust and love it, and did a 24hr test drive (carmax) of the M240i thinking it could be an option next. It’s not even in the same league as my fairly regular 335i. The steering is so dead and the manual shifter is decent but worse than the e90 in directness and throw. The auto rev matching is sweet and the b58 is fast but has less character and way worse noise than the n55 e90. I think an xdrive might be better as you said - I found the limits were sort of unpredictable in this m240 as it would understeer then step out. The e90 has a far more progressive and natural ability to step out when when it too has an open diff. I didn’t believe you at first but you’re for sure on the right track. I think id just skip the 2 entirely but oh well.
You can put the m2 tune onto the m235 which gives it a lot more uptop, you can also tune the trans. I think it makes sense that from the factory its softer. Its a very good dual use car, its not a dedicated performance ride. Also with the X drive it puts the power down incredibly well and makes better use of torque
Steering on these cars can be significantly improved with M lower control arms (1.9 degrees negative camber) and poly bushings to replace the hydraulic unit on the forward thrust arms. BMW intentionally engineered slop into the steering and limited rear tire width to 245's. I have owned both an M235 and presently daily an M240 (can't say enough about the B58 engine). Like your friend, my daily is an M240 and a GR86 is my fun, canyon carving, track car. If you see a guy old enough to be your father in a Trueno Blue GR86 passing you on the track while grinning like an idiot.... That's probably me
All performance based cars sold from 2015 onwards. How many have good communicative steering feel and response? Steering that's not too heavy and not too light where you can feel the tyres. Lotus Evora's do due to having hydraulic power steering. The Alfa Guila's get good praise for it. 991.1 and 991.2 GT3's. GT4's I would presume do? Alfa 4C's don't have power steering I don't think? But most seem to be really lacking in that department, especially front engine cars. Obviously cars keep getting bigger and heavier which doesn't help.
@@Zygrene I bet everytime you drive your NSX it's an instant reminder of why older cars are so desirable and keep increasing in value. Have you ever driven any of the RWD Huracans or R8's?
Great video. I've had a 2016 M235i 6MT as my daily for 7 years now. Am thinking of upgrading to a IS500, and being that you just drove an IS500, how would you compare the 2?
Lol again same ole cookie cutter review, not every car is meant for canyon curvy roads, sure M235i steering is totally numb but other than that its best bank for bucks $25k-$30k performance car. Its fun on subruban roads.. straight line.. does decent in handling department. Useable back seats.. Where M2s are going for 40k-45k and this $25-$30k not a fair comparison.
All the F generation models have numb / vague / light steering. You need to make some modifications. The F3X chassis models will require less mods. My friend's 4 series felt great after a strut brace, front lower chassis brace and rear subframe bushing inserts. The M235i can feel great, but you would need to add M4 lower and upper control arms.
E90 3 series, E82 1 series, and E60 are all great out of the box with their hydraulic steering. They’ll be cheaper than any f-gen BMW(excluding the N20 cars with destroyed timing chain guides). They’re all brilliant, and if you’re in the US they’ll all have an I6 of some type. Biggest thing to watch out for on them is oil leaks and cooling systems. If you want reliability and decent performance, go for 25i/28i/30i models with the N52. The N54 is an awesome engine, but it can be needy. Personally, I’m not a big fan of the N55, as it’s slightly more reliable than the N54 but way more neutered in the way it performs. I would also recommend avoiding x-drive models, as it really adds unnecessary complications, weight over the front axle, and dulled steering feel. I run all seasons on a manual E90 330i in Michigan, and it does just fine!
Get a 2011+ 135i with M3 control arms and solid rear subframe bushings. If you can afford it, get the lowest mileage possible and slap on an LSD as well. I had one for years with a 7 speed DCT. Transmission and engine were tuned
M135i/M235i are ok, the M140i/M240i are much better. But, I came from a tuned and modified M140i, and I now have an OG M2. I'll say this .... the M2 is levels above any none M 1 or 2 series. I would rather daily drive it because it feels like a special occasion every time, it feels like an event. It makes me feel alive.
I have the 228i and I'm telling you it's better, why? The motor is much further back and it fells MUCH lighter on its feet because of it. The 228i incredibly well balanced car in comparison to the 240i. With the track package it's within 2 seconds of a M2 and gets 45+mpg on the highway at 65mph. It's a true hidden Gem. Just look a the reviews on RU-vid from "The smoking tire" and other viral videos.
My M140i was 455bhp/634nm, with lots of mods. I now have an OG M2, and I'll tell you this, the standard M2 fucking destroys any tuned M135i/M235i/M140i/M240i in the real world. Yes a tuned M-lite especially the B58 engine, is a missile in a straight line, but that is the only party trick they have. Around corners, over bumps, the suspension, damping, steering, cornering, of a real M car is levels above. No matter how much money you pump into an M lite, it will never be a real M car, or handle like one, I know, been there done it got the t shirt. OG M2 is an amazing machine.
