2016 Kenjutsu/HEMA Blade Interaction Comparison

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On the weekend of the third of September, Sword to Sword Houston had the pleasure of training with the San Antonio School of Kenjutsu. Here's a short clip where two instructors from the respective schools compare and contrast blade on blade actions.
For more information:
swordtosword.us
saschoolofken.com/
For informational purposes only. Train safe!

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4 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 167

@TheApocalypticKnight 8 лет назад

Funny how the western guy is showing the Katana to the Longsword asian guy and vice versa.

@schwertamschwert6981 8 лет назад

The irony of our 20-year long chosen interests did not escape us, especially since we had multiple Asians present and they had none. Greener grass, other side of fences, something something.

@TudorFencing 8 лет назад

lol- I was thinking the same thing and was going to comment until I saw your post.

@ChamorruWarrior 7 лет назад

The modern age is a weird time haha

@justins2454 7 лет назад

not a one iv studied katana frome the age of 14 and id take a katana over a long sword any day i like long sword but iv stood on evin footing with my hema friends in spareing and done quite well my tactics are a little different but the only real disadvantage iv seen is that katana are a bit shorter but just got a trainer that was 3 inches longer iv not had to much trouble with binding because it becomes grappling real quick jujitsu helps lol but i never trained kendo it has alot of bad habits

@guitarlearnerish 7 лет назад

welp same as how the western guy love asian swordsmanship. some of us in asia do love HEMA & wanna practice it...too bad no HEMA club at my place

@RandomAllen 7 лет назад

No offense to the Katana guys but the never EVER use your edge to parry thing is bullshit and has always been bullshit. It was bullshit when John Clements said it, it's bullshit when they said it. Plenty of Kenjutsu schools, if you look up almost any reputable Kenjutsu ryu, you will see edge parries. You may try to avoid it and your style may not have much of it, if parrying with the edge can save your life, you do it! Making this restriction that you never do it in any circumstance is utter nonsense. A knick in your sword can get fixed, a stab through your body or a cut into your head, especially back then almost certainly can not.

@hoanglinhle4468 4 года назад

I don't know about that guy Kenjutsu school but as Kendo practitioner, i have done enough kirikaeshi and kata to confirm this: - Edge parrying is the only way to parry the coming strike. Other way, the blade will break. - Katana have 3 layers for 2 reason: maintain the edge, keep the blade to not be completely break. Katana don't have the flexibility like English long sword, so any strike from a rear make cause damage for the sword. Any parrying should be done at the strongest point of the blade, aka the edge.

@matthewpham9525 3 года назад

@@hoanglinhle4468 The strongest point of a single edged sword is the lower quarter of the blunt edge. Of course, this is rarely achievable in combat, so the lower quarter of the sharp edge is the next best thing.

@kronos1794 3 года назад

Option A) Preserve this tool that can be replaced Option B) Preserve the tool at the cost of my life I'm so conflicted

@TudorFencing 8 лет назад

Did you all ever spar with one another?

@charliewhite578 6 лет назад

There is a lot of arguing in the comments so let me put it to you all bluntly. Yoh may or may not block with the edge in kenjutsu, and thats because from the sengoku, all the way up to the bakumatsu there were thousands of kenjutsu schools. Next i would like to discuss people talking about the katana as an inferior weapon. Is it better than the longsword? No. Is the longsword better than the katana? No. They had a completely different evolutionary path from each other. The two edge thing which is always brought up is rather interesting because in fact, there are albeit rare double edged japanese swords as well, some of which are straight. Ask any questions you want.

@jedi77palmer 4 года назад

I think you'll find Japanese swords stopped evolving, whereas European sword technology was continuously experimenting and evolving throughout the history of sword development

@jedi77palmer 4 года назад

Longswords stopped being used in Europe by the late 1500s as other improved designs had come about. No such thing happened in Japan. No changes no innovations.

@chopstick1671 4 года назад

WingChun I’d like to add that they didn’t stop using them in the Renaissance, they were actually still used quite a lot; it is that at a certain point, when the needs changed, they began favouring other styles of swords, like the rapier for example.

@jedi77palmer 4 года назад

@@chopstick1671 rapier was much more of a civilian weapon used for duels rather than a military one used in battles. Of course there are always exceptions to every rule but the vast majority was as stated

@chopstick1671 4 года назад

@@jedi77palmer There is actually a great vague area when it comes to that. Longswords where ofcourse used in both battles and duels. But there are sources leading us to believe that Rapiers were actually used in battles just as much as in civilian use. I think Shadiversity made a video on Rapiers in which he addresses that, but I'm not entirely sure.

@degiguess 3 года назад

This is really cool but also the Kenjutsu guy going into a full lecture on swords to a room full of people that all know swords instead of just explaining "we block with the sides since the edge is brittle" is kinda cringe

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

the kenjutsu expert is full of crap, that or he studies something from later periods that were less for battle and more for artistic style. real kenjutsu has edge to edge contact, and there are also binds and disarms like in hema, also the tsuba when you know how to make the modifications to how you block actually provides perfectly fine protection, remember curved blades, when they dont bind they will glance off and off to the side with many blocks and others catch the weak of the enemies blade on the tsuba. also only bad swords were brittle, good smiths tempered the blades slightly afterwards to remove said brittleness and katana are generally less sharp then european swords due to niku, it means meat, basically it refers to having a appleseed shaped edge, the purpose of this is to reinforce the edge though it makes it less sharp, and it has a side effect of having less drag in the cut, basically its better at cutting flesh and bone then a blade with similar edge thickness but other styles of grinds. japanese swords that are still sharp after decades or centuries either didnt see use or unlike what is done with most antiques they are repolished and resharpened, this is a common thing in japanese swords, priceless antiques get polished. they dont hold an edge as long as he claims and hes basically repeating the same bs that many so called experts spew without actually doing any proper research. the edges can be anywhere from 50s-to 70 hrc with the spine being anywhere from 20's into the 30 and 40s hrc. its a wide swing. however monotempered blades, katana blades, that are japanese made and antique also exist. also hard medium of soft steel can be used on the sides and the spine and core, there are a number of lamination methods all developed to combat bending. oh and also on bad swords it doesnt matter if you use the flat or the spine they still snap, there was a man who fought with katana back in the days of the samurai who wrote a book i guess, at least thats the form i read it in translated anyways he documents a number of swords being used to strike with the mune or block and they snapped. this was in relation to research he did about certain hamon types being more likely to cause blades to snap. another point is that i almost bought an antique katana from the time around sekigahara that belonged to a kenjutsu school that trained with lives blades for the higher level students and did live blade sparring and duels and there was edge damage all over the blade, cuts going right through the hamon and all sorts or nicks and chips, because the blade was being used there it was never polished to remove these hence why they remain unlike in many katana and those that have damage like this are rarely sold. this one survived over 2 decades of use in this school edge on edge before it snapped. so there goes his edge on edge arguement for the kenjutsu side and his durability argument on the reasoning. not trying to sound rude but he really doesnt seem to know what he is talking about, id personally love to know what ryu he practices and if it is kenjutsu or iai that happens to have some kenjutsu within the school.

@saber2802 7 лет назад

Got any proof?

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

***** where would you like me to start?

@saber2802 7 лет назад

bmxriderforlife1234 with the Sengoku period I suppose

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

***** smartass.

@saber2802 7 лет назад

bmxriderforlife1234 how about a historical text? Anything teallu6

@somefuckstolemynick 6 лет назад

"They will hold their edge forever" Yeah, well, if you never use them and take proper care of them, bladed things tend to keep their edge.

@grant9908 6 лет назад

Fredrik Wahlgren I was thinking the same thing. What a throwaway thing to say.

@charliewhite578 6 лет назад

There are japanese swords that are still in usable condition from over a thousand years ago that were 100% used.

@sullir9397 4 года назад

charlie white for a thousand years? Lmao. I’m only laughing because those particular blades that survived weren’t used much if at all. A sword in a collection will survival for very long time, but only because it was protected. Any steel object will last if it’s kept away from abuse and cared for correctly. The Amakuni design is the thing I’ve been most critical of Japanese swords. It never evolved.

@hoanglinhle4468 4 года назад

@@charliewhite578 Hello, i have practice kendo for 4 years, just got permission to own practice sword. I want to fix your sentence. Japanese sword or Katana in this case are just a piece of iron, it is not magical light saber. You use it to cut soft things like human or practice target and also proper care for it, it will last thousand years. If you use it to fight, cut other sword, cut armor or other hard targets, the blade will break can not be repaired. The reason katana last longer than other weapons is because it was a weapon for high class officers. Those officers used katana as accessory and un-armor duel like modern high rank military officers use their pistol. They don't use katana as a main weapon on battle field so the katana was less likely to be damaged compare to other weapon.

@rafhalimaxd 4 года назад

@@hoanglinhle4468 Lmao what does kendo have to do with a practice sword?

@vedymin1 7 лет назад

The antiques he's talking about almost never saw much of combat, no weapon will hold the edge forever, it will dull itself with any strike, regardless if it is on the body or on another sword. I will not concern myself with the edge of a disposable tool that exists only to protect me, not the other way around. You can always resharpen or just replace the sword after it has done its job, period. The longsword is overall a better all around universal weapon, longer reach with comparable weight, much more durable two edges and a springy blade that won't take a set easily, better thrusting, cuts good enough to kill with, better guard and pommel, both of which can be used to attack armoured opponents. Of course much if this depends on the type of the sword, some cut even better than katanas, but at the expense of something else.

@XiahouDun1225 6 лет назад

A Katana's edge is generally comparable to tool steel, which is steel that has been cooled very quickly, and is in turn made to be very hard. Tool steel is, by the way, the kind of steel you find in steel files. It is able to grind down other metals, and the many edges of the file are kind of meant to not dull. Now it's not perfect, and you shouldn't make an entire sword out of tool steel, as it is very brittle. This is why the rest of the blade is cooled much more slowly, the same way European blades are tempered, which produces a softer, and thicker, also important, support for the edge, so that if it does get damaged, it chips, instead of snaps or shatters, as tool steel is want to do.

@charliewhite578 6 лет назад

Thats not true at all. In fact the vast majority of antiques were in fact used. A lot of the amazing quality swords were not, but it is fact that the majority of nihonto that were made were not of amazing quality, and a lot of these still exist. How we know that a lot of these swords were used, is actually from how much white steel is left on the edge. Every polish removes a certain amount of it and the less of this steel that there is, typically the higher the possibility that it was used. As for the longsword being an objectively better weapon. Well, why compare them? They were used very differently and developed differently. Typically the sword was not a battlefield weapon on japan, at least not the uchigatana. The tachi however was a much more battlefield oriented sword with a longer more curved blade.

@charliewhite578 6 лет назад

Not to mention the spiritual aspect of the sword to the samurai. That was the primary reason the blades stayed very similar throughout history.

@magtegi2 5 лет назад

yeah reach is king even a couple of inches can life or death

@derekburge5294 4 года назад

Little known fact: the proper translation for kenjutsu is, "the extensive bill of skills required to kill someone with a sword when your iron supply is both limited and low quality."

@matthewpham9525 4 года назад

Japan’s lack of iron only became a problem during modernization, when they needed to quickly build large amounts of trains, rails, tools, weapons, etc. Their supply was perfectly fine before that.

@neutrino78x 4 года назад

Burge, like most "hema" people, you probably voted for Trump.

@derekburge5294 4 года назад

@@neutrino78x Nope. Not sure how it's relevant, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump or Clinton.

@neutrino78x 4 года назад

@@derekburge5294 In other words a Trump supporter. Most of the "HEMA" types are the same as most of the "UFC" types...racists. Who do they identify as the master of Jujitsu? A white guy. Who do they identify as the master of Muay Thai? A white guy. Basically no fighting system is effective unless a white person endorses it.

@derekburge5294 4 года назад

@@neutrino78x Holy fuck, dude, slow *down.* 1. I'm not a Trump supporter. 2. The poor quality of iron in Japan isn't a commentary of race or some ridiculous notion of a martial system being superior to another. My attempt at humor is centrally about the quality of the metal and how much work the Japanese had to put in to compensate for it: the folding and techniques in kendo specifically about not breaking your bloody sword. I don't know what assholes you've run into, but man, I'm not in that category so chill.

@blacknode 7 лет назад

I love those kind of technique exchange.

@TheMorbidHobo 6 лет назад

"Obviously you guys have a double-sided blade" No, not always, not even usually. "We have a single very sharp edge" As does HEMA, and ones with 2 very sharp edges. Japanese swords are no sharper than European swords and vis versa. "Flexablyity shit" Yes, swords are supposed to flex. European swords do it, japanese swords do it, most swords do it.

@eagle162 6 лет назад

XiahouDun1225 I recommend checking out these articles. gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2018/02/iron-and-steel-technology-in-japanese.html?m=1 gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2018/04/iron-and-steel-technology-in-japanese.html?m=1

@XiahouDun1225 6 лет назад

+Kevin Gonzalez Oof you missed the most relevant part of the post, the edge is tool steel. This happens with any kind of iron, be it sand or billet. The thing with tool steel is that it is extremely hard, it's able to keep an edge for basically 5evers. The problem is that rather than dulling, there is an increased risk of it shattering after an impact, this was the reason the rest of a katana's blade was made of softer steel, and much thicker, in order to absorb and spread that force, so that rather than shattering outright, the edge would simply chip. So you have a small amount of damage, as opposed to half a sword. And well...Some people might prefer a bit of serration to their blades. And before you ask, chipped has a different aesthetic to purposeful serrations.

@eagle162 6 лет назад

XiahouDun1225 I shared those articles to debunk the whole low-quality iron thing that is often said, though kind of wish the article mentions the niku which is often forgot about.

@XiahouDun1225 6 лет назад

Kevin Gonzalez Dude the article said the iron sand was the most common kind of iron used for sword making in Japan. Just because higher quality ores could be obtained, doesn't mean that they were readily available.

@eagle162 6 лет назад

XiahouDun1225 yeah I know it also says refined iron sand was probably fine in quality and in the Chugoku region it was known to be top quality, as well to quote: although the mainstream type, it wasn't used as much as people might think compared to the other sources.

@Ianmar1 Год назад

Did anyone else see the guy in the back with the kensen of his shinai pressed firmly into his foot?

@mattmanbrownbro 8 лет назад

Oh nice, I didn't know y'all ran a channel. This subject matter is very interesting, also. I'm hoping for more on the topic. Greetings from Karnes county, Texas.

@schwertamschwert6981 8 лет назад

We're starting slowly but surely. Please subscribe for upcoming vids!

@captainhellenic 7 лет назад

no .... evenwith a katana you can block with the edge. the gunome pattern of hamon was popular just for that reason.

@7dayspking 7 лет назад

What's discussed here is the bind...not static blocking with the edge.

@captainhellenic 7 лет назад

That seems incorrect

@7dayspking 7 лет назад

captainhellenic What seems incorrect?

@captainhellenic 7 лет назад

It seems that is what they're talking about and they did do static blocking with the edge, and yes there are acceptions, but to say to never ever block statically with the edge is false. It's a good video. That's just my input.

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

kenjutsu has lots of binds and edge on edge block and lots of blade contact in general. also sorry but no they are clearly talking about any sort of edge on edge contact.

@thefourthcrow5627 6 лет назад

Did he just give a lecture to a fellow swordsman about blade anatomy? or was there an audience I missed; NEVER MIND...I KNOW HES FULL OF CRAP NOW.... "i'm fighting the sword" ... No. No accomplished swordsman I've ever known...has said "fight the sword"

@XiahouDun1225 6 лет назад

Are you being purposefully dense?

@vileplumbious9134 7 лет назад

Holy hecc I actually get lessons from there

@hedgetwentyfour2708 8 лет назад

Interesting discussion, glad to be your 99th sub :) keep up the intriguing content. Incidentally, where did you get the nylon katana?

@i_love_crpg 6 лет назад

Just run up on the guy who explained with the katana with a katana, see how he naturally reacts, then we’ll see if what he says is fucking action.

@stefaniusmustermann6130 5 лет назад

You ALWAYS block edge on edge with a katana... Everything else will break your blade. The mune and the shinogi are too soft to absorb an impact

@stefaniusmustermann6130 4 года назад

Bez Nervoze your comment? Yes

@stefaniusmustermann6130 4 года назад

Bez Nervoze It doesn't bend... it pretty much breaks... Many koryu I know (and the one I practice in japan) block edge on edge. The flat is simply not made for being struck. You can use the back to "parry". But parrying and blocking are not the same thing

@kimonowolf 3 года назад

That-s not true, shinogi is actually the thickest part of the blade. In most schools, you try to avoid blade on blade contact, but the teacher was also wrong in that it does actualy exist, it's just not common. In my style (which is a 400 years old koryu), edge on edge contact doesn't exist in a single long sword or short sword kata, but it does exist in three two sword kata. In some other traditional schools I saw, it comes up in certain kata, but it's still way less common than the other one.

@jeromeamblard6811 6 лет назад

no centering principes.. :(

@vltraviolence7640 2 года назад

Wait so the white guy is teaching kenjutsu and the asian dude is teaching hema?

@rav3840 7 лет назад

What cool katanas. What are they made of?

@RandomAllen 7 лет назад

I'm guessing those are synthetic katanas made by either Black Fencer or Purple Heart Armory. They are made of a hard, but flexible plastic that is a lot heavier and hits much harder than you think it would.

@succducc9886 5 лет назад

Either plastic or nylon.

@myblacksunshine1 5 лет назад

what is the school of kenjutsu

@kokovas 3 года назад

the influence of Rurouni Kenshin and Naruto animes in western culture hehe.

@flightdancer 4 года назад

good !

@mayckonwolf 6 лет назад

If you slap so many times this can damage serious your katana,the best way for me is counter without use much stress and impact.

@CarlosSanchez-my7zg 6 лет назад

Shinobi? For the sides? Seriously.

@charliewhite578 6 лет назад

Shinogi

@magtegi2 5 лет назад

2:04 made me cringe the AMAZING NIPPON STEEL BRUH

@-blank-4766 5 лет назад

cockeroach Why? Your'e just being disrespectful to the teachings unlike the Longsword practictioner. Who is actually learning, and exchanging knowledge with another practitioner.

@OskoreiMick 7 лет назад

kenjutsu guy is full off crap and does not know what he is talking about... to much Iai and kendo i think

@Shawshankdude2005 7 лет назад

How is he full of crap? He sounds like he's presenting perfectly logical points to me, and he's using real terminology absolutely. Also Dakao is in complete agreement with his discussion, sounds like you're the one who's full of crap.

@OskoreiMick 7 лет назад

firstly saying you never block with the edge is wrong. you can block with the sides and back of the blade but these are weak and will bend your sword. blocking with the edge allows you to stop the other sword from finishing its cut and it also allows you to know where their sword is (the only time you would block with the back or sides is if you are attempting to shed the other blade). blocking an incoming cut with the back or sides means you are blocking with the most structurally weak part of the sword and also being a softer metal it will be cut into and damaged alot more then the edge would giving the sword a weak spot meaning that it will break easier when delivering a cut. secondly he does not seem to have any concept of timing when demonstrating his technique. he leads with his body and produces his hand well before the sword. this means during most of the cut he is open for attack. if he followed the basic rules of timing he would produce the sword towards his target well before him moves his body and would do so in such a way that his hand and arms would not be exposed to the counter cut. also his follow up form the bind is pointless, at that range the sword is pretty much useless and that is where you go in for the grapple and also draw the tanto/dagger. when in that close the sword is not useful etc etc...

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

true, everything he said is wrong, katana are actually less sharp on average then european swords, edge of edge blocking is done all the time as well as binds and disarms like in hema, the tsuba when used properly actually provides perfectly fine protection. oh yeah katana edges arent brittle and can range widely in hardness like in the 50 hrc's into the 70's with 20-30 or 40 in the spine. also the sides werent always soft steel but could be hard steel same with the spine medium steel was also used as well as iron. the core could also be hard steel or medium steel. my guess is if he does do kenjutsu he either has a dumb and bad sensei or practices a ryu from the later edo period thats classified as kobudo and focuses more on artistic style and some dueling then it does on the older real combative aspects. also i almost bought an antique sword that belonged to a famous kenjutsu school in japan from around the time of sekigahara that was used for training and literally had edge damage all the way through the hamon and was used till it snapped in half. i also own a few nihonto, also hes using the most basic of terms anyone can learn within a few minutes. i bet he also doesnt know that certain hamon types are more likely to cause swords to break unless the smith is very skilled.

@bmxriderforlife1234 7 лет назад

+DanRonin go take a google search for enmei ryu the one miyamoto musashi studied or search on youtube for the samurai headhunters documentary and youll see a grandmaster of a ryu dating from samurai times with unbroken lineage teaching a class full of students to block with the edge.

@OskoreiMick 7 лет назад

cheers mate, havent seen this doco, watching it now. Tanaka is bloody good and some seom really good stuff, i just wish that i was able to see some of the stuff that he doesnt show the tv crews or westerners. i bet he has alot of info on how the weapons are really used. and yeah mate i agree with you 100%