I was at this hole and saw Paige's disc fly on the 10th hole on round 4. I was just to the right of the mando, on the left side (from player's perspective). I had a front row seat. When I saw it live, at full speed, it looked like it barely went under the strap. Like by 2 inches or so. When the players approached, they were unsure. One of the lead crowd control people said something to the effect of that was four great shots. The players asked the crowd what we saw, and all the spectators I could hear were unanimous in saying it went under. The players still had not made a decision. One player said to Paige that those of us on the sideline had the best view of anyone and encouraged her to accept the crowd's perspective and to continue without a penalty. The four players discussed it, and it was clear to me that Paige wanted to get it right. It is against tournament rules to watch the video for a replay to help them make a decision (I heard this is because not all rounds are recorded and it would be an unfair advantage). Paige really sought input from the card (the other three players) and wanted to get it right. She was not advocating for herself from what I could hear. The card decided it was in, based on the crowd's perspective. The crowd was so certain about it, it was not even a conversation point until the next day, when I heard that there was controversy about it. I heard one person talking about it to someone else, saying that the video showed it go over. I asked him if he was there to see it. He said he was and he saw it go over the strap. I asked him why he did not say anything when the players asked about it. He said that he did not want to be "that guy" that went against the crowd. I was shocked that what I saw from the side varied from what actually happened as recorded in the video. It made me think about what I had recently heard (in another setting) that our mind does not actually process every split second of what our eyes see -- that it sees in beats and fills in the rest. Due to speed of the throw, my mind must have "filled in" a lie to me, making me "see" something that was not actually accurate. But what bothered me more is that this guy was too lame to speak up, because a divided crowd would have given the players a different perspective than what they had, and then there would have been more uncertainty from the players, and I don't think the ruling would have been the same. I see a lot of commentary in this thread about cheating, etc. and I have lost respect for Hokom for her judgmental attitude about it seeding the public's response. I feel sorry for Paige and for contributing to the crowd's comments that the disc went under when it turns out from video replay we were wrong. I do not believe there was any ill intent from anyone.
@@michaelconnor5230 I agree 100%. Hannah sounded silly on the live not talking about it today during the last holes. That was on everyone’s mind and I love how Sarah just laid it out in this commentary so bluntly
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
For real! It not only was obviously too high, but it was drifting far right and if it was low enough to get below the top mando, it would’ve hit the pole or missed it right.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
@@deadtigerworld I really don't think she "had to have known" if her card mates also weren't sure. I get that the stakes are high and it looked obvious from the camera angle on the other side, but I think saying she knowingly cheated is too far
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
Ian picks the dopest commentary partners! Sarah is such a professional and just knows her shit. She doesn't even need time to think about what she is seeing, it seems almost second nature to her.
Been saying this forever... Any mando should have wide enough supports/headers so it's obvious which side of the disc passed. I've played on mandos like that and there is not way something a few inches wide is going to help with noticing this. Look at Hole 7 (bamboo hole) at USDGC. No way will it be unclear if you made or missed that mando.
Let's be honest, that shot was too high and too right. In no way should there have been any question. It sucks, but should make the title illegitimate should Paige win.
@@zebsommers4464 Seriously? It was questioned and her card mates got wrong so there's that. If the 2 supports and heater were at least a foot wide it would have been more obvious in real time. Easy for use to watch the replay a few times and say "it went over and not under".
@@netposerx I'll give you that. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you that anything that can cause a penalty should be clearly visible. It just didn't seem like a close call to me. I only watched it once. Regardless, it will probably be retroactively corrected and who knows how? Cheating is cheating my friend.
@@zebsommers4464 Gotcha. But I can't believe the TD and staff could not foresee that mando being an issue. It would have been a great place to sell some ad banners too. The way it looked for worlds was awful.
I was standing there with the crowd, they were unanimous in saying that it went under the mando. There were no officials there to dispute or confirm. It was pretty crazy, because from our angle it looked like she clearly made it under. The rule is benefit to the player and the card gave her that benefit.
Here's the thing, I wish we could see that first angle of her throw for a little longer. The disc is the same color and I think it could've looked like it went through. We saw it clearly missed but we also had two angles.
@mars omg i was saying that in the video it was clear it missed, but the color of the disc is the same as the rope and could’ve looked like it went through.
True, but the flight of the disc wasn’t just too high, it was clearly fading to the right too much. If the disc was low enough to clear under the top mando, it would’ve hit the right pole or missed it to the right. She wasn’t on line in both regards.
Earlier this year at an event, I did the same thing Hailey King did on #18 after switching from a putter to a Zone from 25 feet into a raging headwind. Though my card mates did not notice it, I called a penalty on myself. I can not understand how the obvious missed mando on #10 was not called either. It is very disappointing to see professional players fail to penalize significant rule violations on the lead card of the World Championship.
When a foot fault required a rethrow with no penalty, that was the case. The rule has changed so a foot fault is now a one stroke penalty and the throw counts. Looking at the rule, it might be considered a misplay. Tomorrow I am playing at an event run by the head of the rules committee and will ask him.
@@lbh704 I was told that lining up to the disc and not the mini should have been ruled a misplay with a one shot penalty applied followed by a shot played from the correct lie.
@@EverythingBible really? Because you used to be able to do that, then it was not possible, and now it's possible again? No wonder people get confused.
@@zachkeene212 i know that. i was being funny. it was a joke. OBVIOUSLY he didn't mean she threw her soul. It was just well timed that she threw the "soul"
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
It is the responsibility of the player to play the course correctly. Before play begins, players are expected to attend the players' meeting in order to learn about any special conditions that may exist on the course, including extra holes, alternate teeing areas, alternate hole placements, out-of-bounds areas, mandatories, and drop zones. A misplay has occurred if the player has failed to complete every hole on the course correctly and in the proper order, or has played from an incorrect lie for any throw. The player has played from a lie that is not the correct lie. For example, the player has: Thrown from a lie established by a previous throw which missed a mandatory; If a misplay is discovered after the scorecard has been turned in, the player receives the penalty throws applicable to the misplay. A player who deliberately misplays the course to gain competitive advantage may be disqualified in accordance with Section 3.03 of the Competition Manual.
@@lbh704 These are the rules that should apply to the situation. The ability of the card, officials, and marshals to correctly call violations and enforce them is another matter.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
Thank the female commentator for calling out paige on the mando, its a joke and Paige should have the integrity to play it properly herself. Not world champion attitude. Cat deserved it.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
@@byuidan On IG she said she didnt know at the time but now she did and if she did know she would have played it properly. Im not sure I buy it but yeah we can give her the benefit of the doubt.
I think we have to remember that while the camera angle (and proximity) makes it very clear that she missed the mando, it might not have been very clear og the tee. You can see, just before the camera angle changes, that the disc is going to dip below the top of the mando (obviously having passed above it first) and that might have fooled them. If the rest of the card weren’t sure whether it made the mando or not, I don’t think you can really blame Paige for it. She made a nice comment about it on IG when she congratulated Catrina on her win.
I honestly think Hokom is being a bit arrogant here... She can't have known Paige could see herself miss the mando (which in hindsight she obviously didn't) and it seems like she doesn't agree that there were things the PDGA should have improved on the course prior to the event.
I'm sorry but it was painfully obvious that she missed the Mando to me. Some of you are saying that from their angle it was hard to see or that the sun was in their eyes. I don't know, I think it was obvious right out of her hand that she missed not only high but also to the right. Paige even reacted as if she missed it. She knew she missed it. Why didn't she just walk right to the drop zone?
I like Paige, but after seeing how Worlds ended, that is absolutely karma. You have to call yourself for clearly missing the mando. Losing Worlds on the last hole might have been a reminder.
I think she maybe consciously or subconsciously went out of bounds on the last throw bc of the guilt she was feeling from Mando gate. Deep down maybe her brain knew that Winning worlds with all that hate and controversy coming at her would be worse
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
I love disc golf, but there is nothing more boring than watching disc golf on a ball golf course with no trees. Bleach! So glad the last rounds will be played at the woods course. Also, I lost some respect for PP after not calling the missed mando on herself, even if nobody else saw it. A terrible day for integrity on the pro tour.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year. Mulligans has enough shape to it that the trees really do come in to play. Angle and distance control is critical. The players that are just chucking and hoping are in the bunkers and the water almost every time. With that said, I do prefer the fort, but Mulligans was a treat to watch. It was also much better for live spectating. At the fort we could see very little of the tight fairway holes. We would pretty much hide behind a tree and hope to see a disc go by, but you couldn’t see the thrower most of the time.
I haven’t watched final round coverage yet, but if Paige takes it by 1 stroke, I can’t imagine how she’s going to deal with that for the rest of her life. Sarah is bar none correct, that there shouldn’t have been any way for her to not know in the first place, but I wasn’t there, so I’ll reserve judgment. Just the thought of what that would result in if she wins it and only by a stroke.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
@@byuidan I always find myself rooting for Rick and Cat. Always happy for everyone’s win, but in my heart I always want them to win whatever tournament it may be.
There's no way you don't see that missed Mando if you're throwing the shot. It's not like it's 400ft away. I am not sure on the rules. Can they add the stroke after?
With all the foot faults I see, missing a missed mando isn't that big of a deal. Besides, all were looking into the sun and they went with the spotter with what I can tell. I've never seen a pro player call themselves on foot faults. Love Sarah Holcombe! The year she had a car wreck on the way to course, took penalties and still almost won, with a sore body and black eyes. THAT is a player to be respected.
Paige on hole 14: Shouldn't she have taken her putt from the last spot in bounds which would have been at the beginning of the sand trap? She took her putt directly behind her OB lie, but it never crossed in at that point. Gave her a much easier putt
I think Paige knew she missed. To me when she throws it sounds like she's asking for the disc to "get under it" which you're asking the disc to do if you are too high and going to miss the mando. Paige def knows better as a former world champ
Doesn't get counted because you can't use video evidence as proof. It makes for an unfair disadvantage to be at the lead card since no one else is being recorded. If her cardmates called it, yes, it should be counted. Overall, she should've had the integrity to say she made the throw from the wrong lie and take the hit.
I disagree, it sounds like Double G to me. Also if you haven’t tried his jerky, do, it is amazing. I am considering becoming a wholesaler, but I am concerned that I will lose money because I will eat so much of it lol.
"If I missed the mando I would know I missed the mando...." That is true except for the times when it is not. If Paige missed the mando by half an inch I doubt anyone would be able to confidently call that shot. Thanks to video we can see that she missed the mando but I could totally understand why in real time it wasn't clear. She was pretty close. In football, they've got 2 referees watching the uprights during field goal attempts (and they still mess up sometimes). In basketball, the hoops have nets to make it easier to determine if the ball passes through the rim. In tennis, they use Hawkeye to simulate the ball to determine whether it's in or out. IMO build courses where stuff like this is near impossible or change the rules and use referees/video replay. Otherwise tie goes to the runner.
@@MattSmith-ys2cj You can thank video for that. Home plate umpires make the wrong call on 20% of pitches and their face is 4 feet away from the ball. We can thank video for that stat.
@@MAGiiCSTiiCK not really the case here, there is nothing in between the players and the mando (you know, like the catcher who does kinda block the view of an umpire)
@@MattSmith-ys2cj Her card mates didn't see her drive go over on this "pretty wide open and looks to be easy to see" mando so they let her play like she made it. That's the correct call. If you don't like it, don't hate the player hate the game. A better designed course (like a more defined mando), referees, and video replay all help to mediate situations like this.
Gonna throw this out there - I think it may have been really difficult to tell live whether Paige's disc passed under or above the mandatory line, with the disc and the mando band both being similar colors and nobody watching out there having the benefits of two different camera angles switching at pretty much the exact moment the disc passed it. It also seems really bright with how Paige is squinting despite having the shade of her cap prior to the shot. My guess is - Paige and the others on the tee were probably unsure if it cleared or not, then spectators and/or spotter saying it looked to them like it cleared it made them tilt towards that conclusion. It's unfortunate that it was missed, but I wouldn't want to call foul play from anyone involved unless I know for sure that it was the case. Strange though, you'd think they would have someone there making official calls, with it being Worlds...
@@breathejinn8498 Real discgolf fans who have been watching the sport for many years care about the sport. You seem like you've probably just started watching/playing during the pandemic. The game was uber close so every stroke not called is important (especially in the world's). Get out there and practice!
@@deadtigerworld ok Mike, again, sorry but no. Real disc golf fans know the score was bogus but still enjoyed the coverage. Your comment was just you complaining. How Mike? Tell me how you know how long I've been playing and watching. I've been playing for 10 years and watching about 5 so your little superiority assumption is just wrong. I'm sorry you're upset and need to project your need to practice some more bud because I called you out for whining like a child instead of just enjoying the fact they brought you this coverage.
Although Paige absolutely tried cheating since her disc wasn’t that close, that set-up on the triple mando is terrible. Get a wide banner or some material that is at least a foot wide. A thin rope that’s just loosely dangling? Really PDGA?
Everyone complaining about the mando miss is seeing it from the camera's angle. From the player's angle it would be much harder to see and if you see other angles, you could understand the possible confusion. I am making no judgement on Paige's decision, she very well could have seen it for all I know. However, judging by camera angles that are different then the players' view is disingenuous, especially since her card called it in.
@@Jpgator1214 I agree. It's the world championship. If there were ever a tournament for this not to be allowed to happen, this would be it. Along with Cat getting called out of bounds yesterday. That's a minimum of 2 strokes. That is huge. Not sure why they can't get judges on this big of a tournament.
I agree. there is clearly footage from behind the tee. the edit doesn't allow us to see it from the tee/players perspective. it did look high and right though
Why not all cards? You would need about 15 locals with a rule book and a stop watch to volunteer to do it, it would be an unfair disadvantage to the top cards to have an official calling them out on things
I won't lie, I lost a bit of respect for Paige on this one. She knew by her reaction that her shot sailed right over the top of the mando. She knew it could possibly be a 2 stroke swing and took advantage of the her card mates benefit of the doubt. She knew she didn't make it. The mando is 100 feet off the T in the wide open for F sake. I am glad she choked it on the last hole because after this she did not deserve this world title.
If things were so clear, why didn't any if her 3 cardmates make the call? I think the rules at MAJORS need an adjustment. Rules enforcement shouldn't result in card drama.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
So now we have a problem. Paige needs to be DQ'ed - incorrect scorecard. Having the crowd decide is never going to further the sport. This is going to set Disc Golf back 20 years, maybe more.
Did you see it from Paige's view? In that camera angle, it was clear as a day but if other players weren't sure they have no options but continue playing without penalties. You could argue that "she must've known" but it is possible that she wasn't sure herself. Most people wouldn't penalize themselves just in case. Also you can't DQ Paige here, because you are not allowed to use video or pictures as evidence othere than misconduct.
Paige Pierce cheating on not only 10 but also where she throws her putt from on 14. Damn that sucks.. getting tired of some of these pros taking liberties... more than anything because I love the sport so much. What a shame.
I was sitting under a tree getting a snack and some shade and had a very good angle. The players were looking right into the sun, so I would like to give Paige the benefit of the doubt. I really liked Sarah not letting her off the hook.I was upset enough about the misplay but even though I like Paige it made me happy she didn’t win this year.
