As long as the vehicle is stock and mechanically unmodified, I see no reason they can deny the claim for driving the car at an RPM and speed the vehicle was factory equipped to achieve. I'd fight this to death.
Just because it's 'factory equipped' to be at certain RPMs and speeds, doesn't mean it's meant to be driven in certain ways, at those two things... He's SoL, as he should be. Looking for pity on RU-vid from stupid people is all he has left.
Toyota does not cover any damages if the car has been broken on a track. Especially if the videos were uploaded to RU-vid or if google photos can find your car on a racetrack. It's important to read the warranty policy before if your car is still under warranty.
@@deniscdyck No, unless you are a vindictive prick. A reasonable person would conclude that, since this video shows reasonable, non-aggressive driving, that this was more likely a manufacturing defect, especially given that the car was a 2022. You must be a real joy to be around, to think otherwise.
honestly, for a stock car at 19k, I would've been so deep in disbelief that I would keep going a little just confirm I wasn't F'ing hallucinating. This is BS on Toyota's part.
@@xwewillberememberedx yes but no. A lot can happen in 19k miles not to mention we have no idea how this dude treats this car and how often he services it. Edit Judging by how he keeps on driving when something is clearly wrong I'm starting to think it's just neglect, negligence and poor servicing.
900BRZ did an amazing scientific video about this phenomenon a couple days ago. His testing found that the FA24’s oil pressure drops when doing lateral G right turns. This, combined with your numerous right turns on this track seems likely to be the cause of your engine failure. ESPECIALLY when your engine starting rattling on that high speed right turn. I would take a look at 900BRZ’s video and see for yourself. I hope Toyota/Subaru fix this issue for you guys.
It's likely the cause of this failure, though probably has occurred over time as the engine didn't seem to be too stressed at the moment when it failed.
Yeah came here just to say this. Here's a link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4Jk5WTWoqt4.html There was a toyota GR cup mechanic in the comment section of that video who said that some Toyota engineers were also not aware of this problem. I wonder what sort of support we can expect from them now that we know what's happening. If there are aftermarket parts that somehow fix this, would installing them void the warranty?
then they need to either issue a TSB about it that can be covered under warranty OR issue a recall as having an engine lock up because you went around a curve too fast should not be something someone should have to worry about nowadays
@@myacidninjatheamazing1025This has been a thing with Subaru engines going on 20 years now. There will be no tsb or recall. Welcome to the Subaru experience.
The track models of the GR86 use the motor from the GR Corolla not the Subaru boxer. Track proven ... with a Toyota motor that they don't sell on the production versions.
Brotherhood, man, we gotta keep this mindset in a messed up world. Appreciate the comment, even though I'm not the driver or involved in the space, but as lovers of cars, we gotta look out for each other and keep up the love.
@reck0n3r I'm a bit surprised to see how much negativity their is towards the driver. This happened very early on in the event, either the 1st or 2nd session. Each session lasted 4-5 laps (20 mins)with the 1st 2 laps having a standing white flag( this meant no speeding or passing during the 1st 2 laps). Additionally we were running in the novice group which had pre-designated passing zones and the track was being run in the CW direction (not the norm), almost everyone including the advanced drivers haven't driven that way before. For the 1st 2 sessions everyone was driving in a similar manner as they were still getting comfortable with the track.
I am planing of getting a BRZ myself, but seeing all these evidences about this issue pushes me off. I hope they’ll own up and figure this one out soon. The platform is so good to miss, yet the quality of their sealant is horseshit.
Brzs are horse shit in general. Im a sports car mechanic in oregon where subarus are EXTREMELY popular, most subaru sales in america I believe. Brzs/frs/gt86 are some of the most common of the shit boxes. ALWAYS in the shop and ALWAY the same problems as the last. Its insane how many ive seen come through our shop even compared to wrx’s, theyre about the same
@tommycarrera3875 yeah those boxers and subarus in general are inferior to regular weak inline 4s. Seems like ppl in Washington/Oregon only buy them cause of all the steep hills/offroad n rainy weather capabilities with AWD n since they are relatively cheap.
possibly didnt hear it with the helmet/headset on or did and was trying to get back to pits. if he did notice he was probably finding the end of a straight to pull off on or somewhere safe. id rather grenade an engine than stop in an unsafe place
Because he's on a race track and at the point the rod knock was audible, it was already too late. The best you can do is try to make it to the pit or stop on a straight stretch.
@@ryanlittleton5615 Yup, this literally happens all the time to bone stock WRXs when dudes try to track them. Optimally boxer engines should be dry sump (like Porsche does), but a baffled oil pan also helps a ton.
Palmer! Sorry to hear about your troubles.. Glad they finally honored the warranty. I'd be reluctant to purchase a vehicle from Toyota based on all the terrible warranty experiences I've heard.
Appreciate you sharing. It was hard to watch but glad you're safe. Toyota continues to disappoint on their support for vehicles in the GR lineup. As someone who also tracks a GR86, this continues to add to existing concerns.
Just do all the preventative oil issue maintenance (such as oil baffle plate, magnetic oil plug, oil catch can, air-oil separator, dual radiator/oil cooler) and you should be fine. It’s a lot of parts & there’s lot of companies that make them so you gotta do your own research to see which one you want to get. Also, you can run 5w30 oil instead of the standard 0w20 for extra protection. Drop the oil pan too to get rid of the excessive rtv. Some oem dealers will do that for a fee but won’t void warranty. Disclaimer tho: some (or all) of these may potentially void your warranty but I’d rather risk voiding my warranty than blowing up my engine.
@@zzoinks How is that better? That would not only devalue the car a lot but it would also be a headache to wait for them to get all the parts & fix the car (which they probably wouldn’t be able to do properly in the first place). With these mods, if anything does happen, they would have to prove that it was because of these mods that the car blew.
@@CarsOverPeople I'm in Canada, almost everything you said would void the warranty. I think I'm just going to sell my BRZ once my lease is up. Don't want to stress everytime on the track.
For a Subaru boxer engine on a track or just continuous hard driving I would recommend 5w-40 and probably a oil cooler and maybe a bigger core all-aluminium radiator. You also need to monitor your oil and coolant temps regularly. For normal driving 5w-30 would be ok and more fuel efficient, but on a race track it could thin out too much as it gets hot on a long straight then going into a hard corner it will all go to one side of the boxer engine causing oil starvation. Also need to make sure that the oil is on the full line of the dipstick, when the engine is cold. The EJ boxer engines use to come with 5w-30 as standard but 5w-40 was also mentioned as acceptable in the manual, especially for when towing something. The 0w-20 that they put in now on these newer boxers is just to meet more stringent efficiency targets. For street driving you could also use half 5w-30 and half 5w-40. If it was me though I would just use 5w-40 for all types of driving and check the level regularly. Another benefit of heavier oil is that less of it will get into the combustion chamber and burn off. Also if your engine is starting to overheat then for ffs just pull over and call a tow truck because once the aluminium engine gets over a certain temp it starts to warp. If it is awd then it should be on a flat-bed truck as well. And I would recommend people to learn how to change their own oil by watching tutorials, so you know it has been done right and use an accurate torque wrench to tighten the drain plug. It is usually a good idea to avoid the first year of a new generation model as well. If you have one then you need to also check the oil pan RTV clogging issue (there are tutorials on youtube). Also whenever you are new to a model of car, then google: 'model name' problems.
Solids points. I tell people all the time that thicker HTHS 5w30 (at the very least) is the way to go. I'd be curious to know what 5w30 he put in the vehicle because not all of them perform the same, especially when tracked.
Just saw a video yesterday, the guy was talking about oil starvation on new GR86/BRZ, I think in the video the guy talk about right corners with elevation changes being the biggest problem, since the oil pressure drops like crazy, but I am no mechanice so I could explain why or how... bummer that you hade to go through this hope your car is getting fixed real fast, so you can enjoy it
It's the oil pressure problem, it's well known sadly, they are working on it. It needs oil pan baffles badly. The oil pressure drops to 20 to 25psi especially at right turns.
Sorry to see this. Wonder if it’s worth trying to get in touch with Jalopnik or Car and Driver. Might help you put a spotlight on this and pressure Toyota to do the right thing and honor the warranty.
This barely even qualifies as track use. Ive driven harder on back roads. My track cool down laps are faster than this, not trying to be offensive. No way this motor should have any problem at this pace.
Wild that they're out here warrantying GR Corolla money-shifted engines but won't warranty yours even though you were doing less than I do on backroads. That is concerning. I'd lawyer up.
It’s a wet sump system so that kind of g-force and holding higher revs probably caused oil starvation unfortunately so the engine, which clearly had an issue to start with, couldn’t hold up.
Yup, the fix is a baffled oil pan, which if he did his research before track day he would've found the "DON'T TRACK A FA MOTOR WITHOUT A BAFFLED OIL PAN" PART
I was looking at maybe purchasing this car but this at normal driving causing a spun bearing and them telling you not covering it, immediate pass. sorry for your loss thankful for your lesson.
I was wondering why he was scared to go to 2nd. But then watching his racing line, and him repeatedly missing apex and that gorilla grip on steering wheel, I’m assuming he’s new to this and was just a bit nervous.
Yea… if you drive like this all the time no wonder your engine blew up… Imagine gunning it on 3rd gear every turn. I’d deny your claim man if you rented my car and posted this.
Toyota should really up it’s warranty game. Unless there is something significant we do not know, it should be Toyotas responsibility to fix this problem for you. Seeing stuff like this makes me question wanting a GR86. Keep us updated on the outcome
All of these comments aged like milk. All of them. The issue is not RTV, or how he did the oil change, or how he was driving. The issue is 100% on Subaru. The engine oiling system is designed in an insultingly terrible way. On right turns with high G's, as well as turns with high lateral changes in elevation, the oil sloshes away from the pickup. This is repeatable and has been tested. The oil can drop from 60 psi down as low as 24. Not nearly enough. This will kill the bearings fast. Left turns are fine. You didn't do anything wrong. Blame Subaru.
Il motore era già chiaramente fottuto al minuto 06.00. anziché fermarti, hai ben pensato di scalare e premere a fondo l'acceleratore. Ottimo lavoro campione 👍🏻
That's absolutely miserable. Just taking it easy on a warmup lap at like 3500-4000rpm the whole time and the engine just detonates like that. Sorry man.
What a tool. Engine making awful sounds and being weak. Keeps driving slow, never turns on hazards to warn others. Keeps driving till engine nukes. Still no hazards.
I know how you feel dude - devastating at the time - same happened to me in my 3RS - had the car serviced at the dealer 2 days before the track day - Porsche were a little slow to accept the claim but had a new engine installed within 4-5 weeks. Hope all is good now man
@@mineigshi Gen 1 991 GT3RS. Full dealer service. Triggered by high rpm misfire. Two of the cam lobes were trashed. Car had 43000 km at the time. I tracked the car regularly. At least monthly. If the car had only been road driven I suspect that it may not have happened until after 100000+ km. The car was driven aggressively but not abused. No launches, no over revs. Just tracking as the car was designed to do. Now have a 991.2 GT3. Much better engine. Revs more freely-more torque. Just feels better. Feels indestructible. Never ever feels like it’s straining.
Hilarious how some people advocate for Toyota…. truth it that Toyota didn’t really do much in the ~10years between the GT and GR (which in itself is a shame, 10 years and no innovation nothing) and the one thing they changed they did wrong. Good Job Toyota. You see the other cars on the Track? There were even some GTIs there which arent really track car and this guy was actually driving slow. Old M3, old Corvette etc. all driving normally but GR, nope. I feel sad for this guy.
Never knew any dealer to volunteer to fix your car under warranty. I don't see the need for a dealership anymore for the near future. It's just added markup costs to the consumer when shopping online is adequate. 🙄
It's insane to me that a car that toyota themselves markets as a performance car, where in commercials performs "performance" maneuvers; initially denied your warranty claim for "racing". That's some utter bullshit.
Take it to an independent shop or a different dealer that isn't handling the initial claim, have them pull the pan check the oil pickup for the RTV issue and isolate any other failures. Document it, reach out to Toyota USA directly, NOT through the dealer. If there is a known failure point, they'll likely update your claim.
I know this isnt the Nürburgring, but as someone used to watching Nürburgring videos with speeds up to 170MPH this feels so slow to watch. Im glad that toyota is gonna replace the engine for you!
if youre going to drive on the track with a 4 cyl boxer from subie, make sure you change the oil pickup and oil pan, along with air oil separator, but you learn the hard way.
That's not racing, That's an open track day or high-performance driver education. That is not a competition, just a safe place to learn how to push your car. There is no way the warranty will not be honored unless you did something dumb, like had no oil, or pulled a money-shift.
To anyone who is new to track driving, I recognize that different groups have different safety protocols. However, if and when your car becomes disabled on the track, when possible always pull as far off the track as possible. The gentleman in this video was not on the racing line so he was out of danger for the most part, but there was additional runoff he could have utilized. And unless you SEE fire stay in your car with your seatbelt/harness on. Sitting in your car with your seatbelt off and or getting out of your car while the track is in session is putting yourself directly into harms way.
Saw on your updates that they approved an engine replacement. MAKE SURE IT IS A COMPLETE ASSEMBLY NOT JUST A SHORTBLOCK. You ran the car for over a minute after the catastrophic event which is plenty of time for metal shavings to go from the oil pump up into the heads
Yeah he starved the engine of oil and continued to drive it potentially leaking fluids on the track and then stopping on the track on a corner at that, big brain ideas there. The issue is the driver.
@@chickenbeansoup2631 You can hear the engine struggling long before he finally stops, could’ve possibly saved the engine, but he made sure to seize it up
@@joelbellJB You're telling me the driver designed the shitty oil pickup? This man on track works for Subaru? If that's not the case then it's not his fault, no debate.
Don’t give up, fight fight fight to get that warranty honored. Show them the video, keep talking to them man, not all is lost. Weren’t even revving it hard. Sorry that happened to you
Issue is it happened on a track not normal driving conditions. Worked at a dealership for years the manufacturer Is within their right to deny the claim based off that. Only company I've seen fully back their customer on warranty claims after a driveline failure during track use has been Chrysler. Per their tech department when I had a hellcat with a obviously blown engine, slicks on the rear and signs of drag racing. Their guy said "we will 100% warrantee the engine. Chrysler advertises these cars drag racing, drifting, ect. We can not fault the customer for using their vehicle as we advertise it on our commercials." So long as it had not been tuned and it still had its stock parts it was never a issue with them
@@EnhancedTrashBin Really, wow, that's great. They should because he was on a race track but video shows his driving is normal. Would have failed on the highway. Granted he should keep the revs high on such a low torque output engine.
Two things to learn from here. 1. Best to pull over and shut the car down as soon as you hear any knocking noises from the engine bay. Leaving oil and debris on the track could kill someone. 2. If you see smoke egress the vehicle immediately. Fire is no joke. Saftey first.
Glad to see the warranty covered it! Start downshifting around them turns, while it is harder on the valvetrain, that is easier to replace than the result of loading your engine!
Surely this problem can be cured with sump mods (wings), increased capacity ,windage tray, scrapers etc How the hell do they race these things? I own one, don't track it, yet, but this should be fixable.
Also ! By the way, there's a famous issues on that gen : the RTV. The issue is that the OIL inside the RTV got stuck because there's too much "glue" (The black glue taht you apply between 2 pieces. I'm french I dont' know the name sorry). This issue is known because it's there out of factory. Maybe That RTV got clogged and no OIL was passing threw.. It might be this but not sure at all ! I'm a young 18 years old kid learning stuff about engine so yea lol :) That might be it tho.
I hate how some of these dealers turn their backs on you because you were on a track. You weren't even driving it hard, and their reason for not covering you is not because of how you were driving, but simply WHERE you were driving it when this happened.
There's a lot of cresting downhill right hand turns and one long right hand non-super elevated turn on this track. 900BRZ just did an oil pressure analysis on these engines and apparently turns like that are seeming to be a huge weak point for the oiling of the engine.
It’s such a great car. I want to get one but I refuse until they get rid of that subaru engine. I’m sorry this happened to you. These companies need to do better. 30k+ is a lot of money for most folks. This is unacceptable.
they're complicit. they're leading people towards ruined motors because they're coping with their buyers remorse. the fix costs less than 100$ to DIY and if you're a wrenchlet, around 200$ in shop time and materials cost.
It's not the pickup. It's poor oil drainage from the top of the engine back into the oil pan. It's been a Subaru problem forever. People like to find things to blame instead of theirselves is what happens. Low oil or poor oil choice for track makes a huge difference. Show up to the track with sone 0w20 that already has 5k miles on it and is halfway below the fill line.... Boom
@@nissanv6TT I have had more oil pans off than you can imagine. Almost all modern cars have silicone and other crud in their pickup tubes. People just dont know because they dont blow up their camry on the tack at the hands of an unskilled driver. Funny how this never happens to track veterans. Always some goofball with their 1st track car. I also have a 22BRZ with 15k miles of hard street and track use. They require more attention than your average car. People dont keep up with their needs then cry when it breaks.
@@boost331 and that "more attention" is fixing the pickup tube issue. You can't fix the fact that it's a piece of shit Subaru engine. It's specifically marketed as a track car with a warranty. They didn't deny the warranty for anything other than how it was driven. When OP posts the follow up that the pickup tube was clogged, I expect you back here with an apology.
If it’s brand new that’s your issue. A brand new unbroken in motor is still tight and fresh, you gotta get atleast 3k miles on it before you start pushing it
Just ordered one GR86 over the last month and only in the past 2-3 days I discover this could be an issue... I live in UK and will call again the sales division after the "welcoming call" to see what's the position on the matter. In case it's not satisfying hope not to lose the preoder deposit!
When you hear an engine death rattle, switch off to minimise the damage and get off the track, don't keep going until the car croaks. Good to hear that Toyota are going to replace the engine
Nice that Toyota decided to replace the engine, but if they don't fix the underlying problem with the engine, will they replace the engine after next track day? Or the next after that?
Yeah Toyota’s choice to put a Subaru boxer in that car was so baffling to me, even back when these were first announced way back when I thought to myself that’s not going to last. I had 3 different family members who had Subarus and all 3 of them cooked their head gaskets just doing normal daily commute driving. Toyota is normally known for their great engines like the 1JZ and 2JZ-GTE, and the ZZ2. Why didn’t they use their own engines? Do they not have confidence in them anymore? They are proven reliable. Just bizarre.
Manufacturer put too much sealant when putting the engine together. The excess in the internals of the engine comes loose and then clogs up the oil pick up tube. That's what Toyota gets for using another Manufacturers engine. Hopefully they learn their lesson.
My 21 year old 200k mile 350z would live on a track all day maybe burn half a quart through some leaky valve stem seals failing from age and certain oil overheating situation. Disappointing to see one of the best affordable chassis of this generation being a let down because of a typical Subaru motor.
I am shocked, a Toyota that broke, it almost new. I drove a Toyota, it was 22 years old, and had for 6 years. Only problem was alternator went, and front brakes replaced, Tyres.
Companies that provide warranties and insurance coverage are not in business to pay claims. Their business is to NOT pay claims by any means necessary. Any excuse they can use to deny coverage they will use. And if they don't have a good reason to deny coverage most of them will just make one up.
Sucks but wish we knew how you daily it to cause this. From the way you keep driving once you hear the problem occur raises concerns for your lack of awareness. Videos like this almost reject people from experiencing their dream car. (I daily a GR86 Premium now for a year & keep up with maintenance daily, I constantly check the oil temp & I don’t rev above 6000 RPM. Plus I don’t beat the hell out it & so far she’s been good to me.)
Toyota really losing reputation with Subaru cars, Subarus have common issues with their oil pump failure. Toyota should've used their own engine such as 2AR 2.5.
What mileage after last oil change and, was the oil level checked before the event? I might be wrong if those engines feature dry sump, but, tha failure seems to be occured after that straight pull and braking at 100 mph at 6:05 minutes mark. Seems like oil starvation! The oil pan on those engines have baffles or deflectors? Im just curious. But the thing is, right after the corner you should have pulled over!
dude, that is so shitty of them. was the track day a Toyota sponsored HPDE? i ask because i have one scheduled in a couple weeks for my 23 86 and if Toyota won't cover their product during their track event, even though it's free, it might not be worth the risk. don't give up!
Wow, you weren't even pushing it hard. Did they determine oil starvation due to RTV being sucked into and clogging the oil pick up? Scary, This is the very reason why I am not taking my free track day.
I hate to say this, but I think the car is driven at too high of rpm for too slow. The rev is up there around 5.5K avg and the speed is around 40-60mph. The blue smoke @ the end is definitely super heated oil. This again tells how important it is to have water,oil temp gauge and oil pressure gauge. stock car overheat for track use, one episode of Best Motoring (JP) did some lap runs and I think RX7 overheat first and the type R last... something like that.
Exactly at 6:13 is when you hear it rod knocking like a machine gun 🔫 I bet it was oil starvation from the excess oil pan gasket clogging up the oil pickup issue that Subaru/Toyota hasnt had a recall for yet. RIP unlucky dude.
