This video was shot on: Blackmagic 6K Full Frame (BMCCFF6KLmount) Canon EF 50mm 1.2L Schoeps Mini CMIT DBX 286s Aputure Nova P300C Aputure 300D Mkii Aputure 60D
I bought the BMCC6K FF when it went on sale, the image quality is incredible. I think one of the reasons they sold the camera at that price is because it was able to get into the hands of so many shooters. Now I want to save up for the URSA Cine 12K.
I think they did it to relax demand of the Pyxis. Maybe they had a PILE more preorders than they anticipated or can fulfill, or maybe they ran into a production problem. Either way, putting the plastic football variant of the Pyxis on sale for half price I'm sure swayed a bunch of Pyxis customers over to the 6K FF instead.
Well, some of it is pretty easy to predict. For instance, EVERY BM release event is opened up by the announcement of 3 esoteric pieces of broadcast rack gear that nobody who works outside of an OB truck is ever going to care about. I get that that's their heritage, but it's hard to imagine the demand for that stuff is anywhere near that of the software and the cameras.
I'm retired and just shooting personal projects but I've owned the Panasonic EVA 1, Zcam E2 F6, RED Komodo, Canon C70 but sold them all and decided on Panasonic S5iiX in my senior years. I never owned BM cameras until they released the 6k FF which I purchased but sold after a few months. The IQ was better than expected but the battery life sucked (used only with v-mount) and I didn't like the audio from any mic I used so I wanted to use my MixPre 3 II but it didn't have a timecode port. All of my current lenses are L-mount except for my Irix set which are canon EF so staying in the L-mount world and ended up ordering the Pyxis because better battery and timecode port. Next project is shooting anamorphic with my set of Sirui L-mount glass. I don't know where I'd be in the Pro world where you live but it is interesting times.
I recently shot a commercial project using an Alexa 35 LF with Arri Master Primes for my A-Cam and the BMCC FF with Sigma 24-70mm photo lens as my B-cam. When I put the two shots by side and graded to match, I’m just saying the images were almost indistinguishable in quality. It just is what it is. The game has changed now and the rest of the industry has caught up to manufacturers like RED and ARRI if you’re talking strictly about image from the sensor. And what differences are there are definitely nowhere near worth the added price you’d pay for the RED. It’s just true.
@@AdamSzarmack To be clear, I still prefer the RED image over Blackmagic, but what you’re saying is true. The juice IMO is no longer worth the squeeze.
Just ordered my first camera, the BMPCC 6K Pro, for years now I have been paid to shoot music vids on iphone. I'm equally excited and terrified for this next step, hoping the learning curve isn't too big.
The learning curve isn't too steep as long as you know basic exposure principles. The biggest difference in how BM cameras operate compared to most others has to do with the ISO limitations when working with BRAW in post. Basically, you need to choose whether it will be in low or high base ISO on the day, and then in post you'll be limited to specifying ISO values only within the range you've already chosen. Thats different from R3D, where ISO in post can be modified to whatever value. You'll get the hang of it.
Just picked up a 6k pro and im getting ready to start selling my Canon cinema cameras. Just as people have flocked to Resolve, the move to these new cameras is haopening fast and it makes sense.
As a commercial cinematographer and often director, I used to run with the RED DSMC2. I saw the writing on the wall years ago and switched to Blackmagic. Now using the BMCC6KFF. I am serving clients who used to hire me with my 8K Helium. Literally no one has mentioned a thing. Not on set. Not about the deliverables. Not even at the client aquisition stage. RED or even Arri for that matter don't matter unless you are in the highest echelon of commercial space. The most common packages I see are either BM cameras, or Canon or Sony mirrorless (not even FX6 or C series, but the little mirrorless cams). The entire industry has shifted and I for one will not be left "holding the bag" as you mentioned. I will never again for the rest of my life make the stupid mistake of buying a camera north of say 5 to 10 grand. Probably will stick to lower end BM cams as the clients simply doesn't care. Oh, and there a hilarious new trend I have also noticed. I have heard on set a few young guys poking fun at "old boomer DP's" with giant cinema cameras. Nowadays simply showing up with a huge rig is literally a red flag to clients as someone who isn't in the know. It's a bit sad but also a bit refreshing depending on how you look at it. Good video mr Loud and Clear.
Tech prices can sometimes go down instead of up as reproduction of parts advance over the years. A 55" tv 10 years ago was $1200. Now you can get a 65" for $299.
As a director/DP with over 8 feature films and few awards under my belt, you told no lies brethren. Since 1995, I've owned them all. From Sony line to Red line to Panasonic line to now Blackmagic line. You are 100% correct. I got rid of my Dragon and picked up the original Ursa (the tank) and I've never looked back. Today, I own 4 BMD cameras. Ursa original, Ursa mini, Ursa mini G2 and pocket 6K. Will definitely pick up the Pyxsis. I've shot over 4 films, countlese music videos, commercials and corporate gigs with those cameras. So, shout out to you. Keep up the good work. 👍🏾💯
No matter how good iPhones get the basic user problems will still remain... most users don't understand camera moves, camera angles, setting up scenes, lighting, composition, color correction, color grading, video editing, delivery formats, audio capture, audio editing, and the list goes on. Having the best iPhone in the world means nothing for video if you don't have the skills during video capture and after video capture. I agree though, the RED future looks uncertain and I think everyone is on hold to see what happens with the Nikon acquisition. One thing most people are probably not thinking with the Pyxis, is that it will very likely be accepted by Netflix for their approved camera list. This alone will be very encouraging for young and upcoming cinematographers. The Pyxis is finally my gateway into the world of cinematography and I couldn't be more excited! My L-mount is on preorder and I'll be using it with NiSi Athena Prime lenses.
I agree with everything you said, with one big difference. While true that the layman iPhone users won't possess a skill set nearly as advanced as one of us, the tool will still give them the confidence to not hire us in the first place. Think of it as the "liquid courage" analogy. Drunks start fights with dudes bigger and tougher than themselves, but if they were sober and not under the influence of alcohol (or iPhones in this case), they'd likely make different decisions.
As someone that owns an Ursa Mini 12K, I’m skeptical on BM’s future in that space. Not that it’s going to disappear, but I’ve never had a camera that’s been shelved/side-lined more than my BM 12K; and it’s basically a V-Raptor without needing to crop for different resolutions. I have to constantly remind people that it’s a phenomenal 4K/8K camera too. And even then, that “12K” scares everyone away. Well that, and BRAW only. It kills me that BM won’t offer some sort of ProRes update to their “BRAW only” cameras. Even if the ProRes is maxed out at 4K. Just something that gives it an edge in a mostly ProRes-friendly world.
that's not the reason. People rushed for the original 12k non olpf. Whilst it was a great camera, the color science internal compression etc wasn't ready for market. there was a clear quality control issue. BM cut the price 40%, sending shivers down the spines of would be buyers. the Olpf version is certainly top 8 in cameras on the market. its certainly one of the best Cameras on the market. I agree with you on having a corporate like broadcast Codec for those who won't have time for grades. However the beauty of Braw is really the LUTs. You can literally scout locations with camera and create Luts. I create LUTs using Alexa log c3 cube. I don't need to do any real grading beyond basic brightness and contrast CC still having extreme flexibility if and when client wants variations. .
The Ursa 12K has always been a bit odd. Awesome camera, but SUPER niche. Full of potential from the color alone, but that pixel pitch of 12K on a crop sensor rightly gives a lot of people pause. It'd be interesting to know how many they sell vs the 4.6k G2.
@@loudandclearmedia yes would be good to know. they refer to that camera as their best. never been on any deep discount, on all testing charts as extremely versatile. Sadly there the world is moving from S35 and 4.6k. everyone wants a camera image that will be relevant in 5 years. its all in their minds
@@loudandclearmedia this pixel pitch concern, I googled it, I could only come up with Redusers and Phil holland discussing it. It’s a non-existent, virtual or made up concern. I happen to know the largest studios multiples of the 12k Olpf to capture plates globally for led volumes. LED volume are known to be dull, and bad for representing bright daylight projected images, the extra resolution from the 12k’s sort of help mitigate those issues. So that filming with a camera like the Alexa with less resolution blends perfectly, since the color science is similar.
I currently have 4 Blackmagic cameras and never felt I needed a full frame. That $1500 sale was too tempting to ignore and it changed by attitude about "not needing" a full frame. I often shoot in small spaces where the crop limited my lens choices. Those limits vanished on day one. After a few weeks, I also started to realize how the L mount opened a whole world of modern lenses. If nothing else, that $1500 sale gave everyone an inexpensive taste of why all their new high end models are full frame.
Right there with you brother. I shoot a LOT of interiors work (Real Estate, Hospitality, Builders) and having a full frame opens up a whole nother world of lensing. Having said that, there aren't a whole lot of native L mount wides that are also well corrected. Certainly not compared to the Sony and Canon mounts. I find myself adapting EF most often.
@@loudandclearmedia I'm not impressed by the choice of L mount lenses either. They're overpriced and uninspiring, but I've been shooting EF for ages and have about 20-30 lenses. The key difference here is when I grab a 24, it's a 24, what I was surprised by is how many other lenses are easily adapted to L vs EF. In a nutshell, you get all the EF lenses, plus all the lenses that can be adapted to EF, plus all the newer mirrorless full frame and pre-digital lenses that otherwise couldn't be adapted to EF because of the spacing. Then when you factor in the new framing and cropping options and I'm understanding why so many platforms are going full frame. The key difference, as you pointed out, is I have four Blackmagic cameras that cost me less than the price of one high end Red.
Great video! The price-performance ratio of Blackmagic is unique. The colors and highlights are very similar to Arri cameras. If they had a global shutter, they would probably be the market leader.
@@loudandclearmedia yeah but I wouldn't recommend anyone to film with autofocus. You can always see it and the whole picture looks rather digital. Especially if you film a moving object with a wide-open aperture...
@@aronisvisions it obviously depends on what your filming, but there are certainly times that autofocus works better than any focus puller ever could. Aside from that, the Canon/Sony iterations of "face only" autofocus are a fantastic way to have an unmanned B cam in motion. and they work really really well.
Well said. For me in a nutshell BM especially the BMFF are best bang for your buck. I do narrative filmmaking, everything from the p4k to bmff are an absolute perfect tool for my needs image and budget wise.
Fantastic points especially the ENG recording. You see it at sporting events for post game interviews and also on Capital Hill. As budgets for TV get cut. Looking at used Red camera I’m amazed at DMC2 prices and still wouldn’t buy The Monstro which I see on EBay for $7995. It would be nice to own as a studio camera but not needed. With Jared gone and the used DMC3 coming on the market updated media along with 6K global shutter. Safer to wait. As budgets fall concentration on look will take preferential treatment over gear used.
I appreciate your analysis and agree with your points. I would like to add two additional significant considerations regarding the future direction of Blackmagic Design (BMD): -The aggressive development of DaVinci Resolve and Blackmagic Cloud. -The public brand positioning by Apple. Similar to how RED gained a clear branding advantage in the U.S., BMD has established a public partnership with Apple. This is evident in Apple's prominent display of DaVinci Resolve in numerous iPad launches, despite it being a competitor to Final Cut. Additionally, Apple's showcase of the new 3D URSA as a Vision Pro camera underscores this collaboration. While my second point may seem superficial, I believe it significantly positions BMD for the future and will have a lasting impact.
Great point. It's perhaps worth pointing out that Apple has a track record of buying out/acquiring companies whose tech is beneficial or has been implemented into their products. Now THAT would be an interesting move, wouldn't it.
Hey, I let it fly with thumbnails these days. The only thumbnail type I refuse to use is booty girls...mostly because I know how pissed off I am when after clicking on a booty girl thumbnail it's some hairy dude talking about cameras.
I've been a Blackmagic user since getting my hands on the original BMPCC back in 2015 and have been extremely impressed with the image quality. I will support a company who is there for the people, BMD definitely excels in this regard whereas RED is purely in it for profit and don't give a damn about their customers.
I disagree about RED not being there for their customers. Let's remember that the cameras and systems RED traditionally competed against were WAY more expensive than anything RED had (remember 4K for $4K?) . Add to that, they've always been engaged with their user base. For instance, I have on a couple occasions communicated directly with Jarrod Land. Which Presidents of which other camera companies have you had the direct ear of? That's pretty darn unique, and I fear and suspect that's what RED has now lost on the other side of this Nikon deal.
Excellent job presenting "fightin' words" in a thoughtful way. I'm a long time Nikon user and curious to see what they do with Red. The only thing I disagree with in your video is that Red has "lost" the battle. In my opinion, nothing in technology is over until it's over. The competition should hopefully mean great things for creatives!
I think we're all hopeful about the future of RED...I know I am anyway. Until there is clear direction though, the uncertainty is pretty unsettling, I mean, we're not talking about $100 widgets after all.
Ehh, having owned both BM and RED, I sold the BMs due to the build quality and preferring the RED images. The Komodo changed the game for RED among working professionals. BMs have nice sensor but not nice bodies - keeps the price low. If you aren't going to abuse them or only use them for studio, they're fine, but I don't trust them to hold up if I'm shooting a doc or feature. As my career advances, I find myself wanting more from the BM cameras and not considering them for serious projects. The Pyxis is a good step forward but not quite there for my uses
All great points. I agree about the build quality of BM and suspect that's a huge reason they can be as affordable as they are. I too prefer the RED image, but honestly not by much. The BM 6K FF has a wildly better image than it has any business having for 1500 bucks...and I think that's always been true of BM cameras.
@@loudandclearmedia They absolutely punch above their weight class and I'd recommend them all day long to folks on a budget or jumping into their first proper cinema camera system. I don't think I've found an easier to grade codec than BRAW. R3D is a bit better overall, but you need to know how to extract that from it, where I felt BRAW graded easier for me
*For Me, I think the URSA Mini Pro 12K is an awesome camera. What gives me pause is the BRAW 12 Bit Codec. The RED uses what My eyes tell me is a superior 16 Bit Colour Science with a difference I can clearly see. I hope BM updates their codec from 12 to 16 Bit, then, I think there simply will be no visual difference between RedCode RAW and BRAW.*
@@markjob6354 My eyes tell me the same thing. With a stable, actively innovative California company at the helm, paying such prices for that look was tolerable. Also, I do think the BM image is frighteningly close for a camera that costs several times less. Seeing the two side by side will show the RED image superior. Aside from that though, seeing the BM image on its own just looks like a great image.
I don’t think BMD has killed Red. I think Nikon has. Because many Red owner such as myself are now hesitant to invest in additional Red cameras because, as you rightly stated, we are uncertain how long-term support will be affected. That said, it is not silly to say that a mirrorless can capture images equivalent to a Red camera. I know my Sony A9III produces an image that compares very well to my Reds. Reasons to use a dedicated cinema camera are more focused on I/O and workflow. Honestly, the BMD cameras have bad rolling shutter, which has largely kept me away from them. If you are in the market for a C6K, you are better served with a Panasonic S5IIX. It’s a much better camera, and supports thing like AF and IBIS… while ironically better supporting anamorphic shooting. FYI: You can buy a Red Monstro 8K VV for $6K on eBay… ouch.
Cameras are getting less and less market as phones progress and client tastes digress and accept phones are pro tools for commercials. I think Sony, if BM is open for acquisition, should really aim to get BM, mostly for DaVinci Resolve as a replacement to their funny lineup now and their previously successful VEGAS, and to have access to BRAW if Nikon keeps RED doing their sleazy patents against any method of compressed RAW algorithm.
@@loudandclearmedia Sadly so, just see how glorious cars were and where we're headed. We went from going to 4K then 8K to now just settle for extremely compressed vertical 1080p.🥲From anamorphic to horse-blinder vision.
BMD has not killed RED. The whole premise of your video is a misguided click bait. The Nikon requisition of RED marks a major landmark of potential growth for RED. Not death. Furthermore, RED Digital Cinema makes cinema cameras. All you talk about in this video is low to mid level commercial work. As a narrative filmmaker, I can't imagine choosing to film a serious project on a BMD camera. The value of computers and of cameras of all brands loses value rather quickly. This is not unique to RED cameras. Your entire video would mislead those who don't know better, and I consider it to be filled with misinformation and false statements. I think Blackmagic Design is a great company, but it hasn't, nor has it ever tried to kill RED.
he did say that in his video. he clearly said the same way red revolutionized the industry by a somewhat affordable camera, so too is BMD, but even more aggressively
Ummm, I am an Ursa 12k owner, & I do plan on saving up for the Ursa Cine 12k, but we have to see if most productions that would normally hire a Red Owner Operator start to make the shift in booking BMD owner Op's. I dont believe that will happen unless the Ursa Cine 12k really impresses & takes over. I also like the Canon C400 & that might be the New work horse camera taking over the Sony Fx6 spot. So, lets see what Nikon does in a couple of years by intergrading the Red tech into their cheaper cameras.
Great points, all of them. From what I've seen, owning FX9, FX6, or now Burano will probably get you the most calls as an owner operator in the commercial space, and it remains to be seen whether the C400 will move the sticks on that much. The Sony's are just workhorse cameras with great I/O, great ISO performance and usable AF. Your comment seems more centered on narrative work though, and I'm MUCH less experienced in that world. Most of what I do is B2B and the majority of that is in the real estate, developer, and hospitality world. As far as RED owner operators getting work BECAUSE they own RED...I know it happens, but I really don't think that's a big part of the commercial world unless there's some heavy VFX being spec'd in post. I do know several RED owners who rent out their kit much more often than they use it themselves, so there's that I guess. The price point to own RED means a lot fewer people are owning them vs the FX6s and C70s of the world. Having said that, I've never been a "hired gun" except for a few rare times, and the types of commercial projects, outside of real estate, that I produce are almost always at a small, local business level where the clients are not astute enough about any of this to have an opinion on which gear is being used...which is why I made the point in the video of the Pyxis being better "client facing" than say the plastic footballs. Clients largely don't know the difference, but the pyxis looks more serious. RED cameras are great for that too. My most recent project shot on RED (the KX), a few months back, in one of the shots I had the main client framed at a table with several other people as a Sommelier was presenting wines to the party. The RED control app, along with the 12G SDI feed made it possible for the client to have an IPAD "monitor" to see simultaneously as the Atomos monitor I was using on top of the camera, and she was perhaps a bit unusually impressed by that...lol. It's those dumb little things that give you street cred with average folks, and nowadays they're a lot easier and cheaper to do than ever before. That was really my main point. The cheaper tech has made RED a more fringe proposition.
As soon as you said the word “Pyxis“ (I’m sure I’m spelling that wrong), You lost all credibility. The camera looks beautiful but it sucks in every possible way. Bad Rolling shutter, horrible in low light… and that ridiculous monitor on the side. Need to go on. The Komodo X will blow it out of the water.
Champ, you sound just like a Red Komodo fan boy. Everything you said is nonsense. The camera is not even out yet, so how would you know? 2nd, Everything you mentioned is not a problem for professional DPs that are shooting high end indie films or commercials. Only RU-vid content creators and wedding shooters will say such amateur, uneducated things about a camera no one in the world have actually used in a film or commercials settings. Youmtold on yourself Komodo FAN BOY.
Spoken like someone who knows very little about the laggy sensor in the Pyxis. I just dumped two BMCC cameras because the low light performance is garbage and because for a lot of commercial work you have to transcode every take in order to deliver unedited footage-not to mention the limited frame rates and the poor rolling shutter performance. At the high end with the new 12k? It’s a huge camera requiring top shelf power delivery and it involves a brand new storage and file transfer infrastructure. What budget minded client is going to want that monster on set? Those folks will want an Alexa as those rental costs keep coming down. Where does any of this leave Red? Primarily with an uncertain user base which will be a lot more likely to lean into an RF mount C400 with triple native ISOs and an $8k price tag rather than L-mount wannabe cameras or going down the 12k rabbit hole. Nikon has its hands full with the acquisition of Red and I still struggle to understand the motivations behind the purchase, but if Red goes under it’s not very likely BM will be the one to take them there. And in the mean time I expect to see Red camera list prices dropping quite a bit as they struggle to overcome consumer uncertainty and the interruptive pricing of the C400.
@@2424rocket If BM could bring that 16-stop sensor into the $6000 range with dual CFExpress and a body design about the same size and weight as the C400 with comparable I/O and built as an 8k design with limited 12k frame rates…maybe??? they could carve out a decent sized portion of the mid-cine market. But I’m not holding my breath. I don’t think BM knows how to make cameras that don’t in some significant way look and feel like toys. Even the 12k Cine looks like something cobbled together by basement tinkerers rather than something built for high durability professional use.
