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21 Swale Keyline Comparison

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This video is one in a series that is part of an online module "Permaculture Water Design: Drought Proofing Farms" produced by Andrew Millison at Oregon State University. You can access the full video playlist here:
• Permaculture Water Des...
and access the full free online module here:
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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 19

@futurecaredesign 5 лет назад

Some things he is not mentioning here, which are important for those people first encountering these concepts: - Swales can move large amounts of runoff water from one area to another and at the same time spread it out over a landscape. This means that if you have a road, a building, a pond or other large runoff area on, or nearby, your land you can harvest that tiny river of water that runs on it and bring it to places that a keyline plow won't take it. - Keyline design can function in places where swales will fail miserably. Mainly in land where the bedrock is very close to the surface. If you infiltrate a lot of water in one area through a swale, you can cause a mudslide. - Swales can function as part of a nutrient flow system. So for instance you can have a duck pond at the top of your property, that the ducks manure in every day. If you run water into that pond, the overflow of it can be channeled into swales which will spread out the nutrients from that pond. - Swales are a tree growing system. Keyline design is often used in grazing land. Keyline design works its wonders in large scale properties that focus on grazing, or agroforestry. If they have runoff it is largely due to compaction of the soil or bare ground above the property. Gulleys are often turned into dams using keyline design. Swales work their wonder in smaller properties that are able to receive a lot of excess runoff water, they will plant that water and put it to productive use. They also shine when working with trees and nutrient flow systems like ponds or cattle yards.

@gedwardnelson 5 лет назад

Great feedback. I sent you an email about the keyline and gullies as dams. Would love to know more about that.

@josephmckenzie4744 4 года назад

Futurecare Design great response, I always a swale system could call mudslides. So in your opinion how much grade in the Keyline would be too much? Are 1-200 or 1-400 too steep? I am working on building a water level system with metric. My Idea is to use velcro on my 2 x 2 sticks so I can raise or lower my ruler to the right water level. At this time I’m waiting on my ruler to be delivered. This ruler starts at zero in the middle and the numbers go up, I have a piece of rope 10 m long hook to the bottom of my sticks so if I’m doing a swale I would hold the sticks together, move both rulers so they are on zero. So now both people can see the numbers. So if you are working on a Keyline of say 1 percent you stick could be set at 10 CM PLUS, and the other would be set at 10 CM minus. One stick stays at the starting place, Move the other stick out until your rope is tight, now the neat thing happens. All you have to do is move the stick up or down the hillside until your stick reads ZERO. Both people will have a ZERO reading. I will have to make a few videos.

@crpth1 2 года назад

In the end it all resumes to what is needed in a certain location. No big surprise really. Like the guy on the video so well mentioned this are just tools. So not creating dogmas about it, is definitely a good idea. Although a swale can also perform as a "path". The more often reality is that it's a man made barrier! I guess, it's worth mention that a land clear of "obstacles" will always be worth more than a land made into a labyrinth of small, or big, obstacles. It's rather simple. Driving a tractor on a clear tract of land or one riddled with swales and ponds... You get the picture! ;-) Being a designer myself. I can say that through proper design that issue can be minimized. But will always be present, since it's an infrastructure implementation. On my own land, of little more than an hectare. There's obvious places for both systems! Different intents, different conditions! And that's on a small piece of land! ;-)

@Picci25021973 2 года назад

The video starts with the statement "you have to be very specific", but it's not specific at all! One of the principles on which permaculture has been founded is that any part of a system has to perform different tasks. Swales do not only harvest rainwater. They slow, spread and seep water. They collect organic material, they form microclimates, they can be used to access parts of the property or to collect harvested goods, they are "tree growing systems" (as Geoff Lawton uses to say).

@beorntwit711 2 года назад

Right; these plow lines are not fulfilling the same purposes as the swales (except obviously, catching water and stopping it). E.g. where rain causes lots of erosion, I can't imagine his plow having the same slowing effect. But he does make an important point that it's easier and faster to plow up a small line than to build a swale, so if you don't need the other aspects of a swale...

@tcoxor52 Год назад

Keyline design also does not only capture water. It slows, spreads, and sinks as well. In fact, keyline design was created by Yeomans in order to effectively help move water from valleys to ridges. And a lot of keyline designed farms will implement keyline silvopasture paddocks between tree blocks. The one major advantage of keyline, as I understand it, is that because all the ripped lines and tree blocks are parallel to each other, it is easier to temporarily fence paddocks for rotational silvopasture grazing. Whereas silvopasture between swales, will often be more problematic due to very narrow or wide or heavily curved sections in areas because of the on-contour design. So, keyline makes large scale management much easier, while still providing a lot of the same benefits of slowing, spreading, and sinking water. That doesn’t mean one is necessarily better than the other, just that they should be implemented based on context and site assessment, rather than trying to force a design technique (i.e., swales) onto every situation, some where they may ultimately be more problematic than beneficial.

@GradyHouger 6 лет назад

Interesting to learn about permaculture and find some of the same elements as conventional with different names. Keyline/swales : subsoil ripping/terraces. I do both as a wheat farmer, though subsoiling is winning. I find it more expensive to rip every other year than have a terrace installation that lasts 50 years, but the ripping is more precise and stores more water.

@paulgutches5253 2 года назад

Hmmm. Here, I had swales put in for half the cost / hour of what was stated here. I also wonder about the longevity of the structure. How long does it last before it needs to be done again to keep it effective? I agree with a post below about specific application. Swales are designed to grow trees, which is what I wanted to do. Keyline is better suited for larger areas, such as pasture, and I wasn't intending to raise grazing animals or grow large crops. And that goes back to the question of longevity. A keylined field raising cattle will get compacted again over time presumably, whereas a swale is not exposed to that type of action.

@xyzsame4081 3 года назад

Now I would like to see that put into action. How much does it really cost and how much does it really catch. And as a swale is a TREE GROWING installation, the benefit of that has to be factored in plus a swale is a long term installation. The thinking behind that explanation is what is wrong with agriculture and related academia. Obviously ! swales are a tool that is sometimes useful and sometimes not and keyline design might be the better option. So I am not sure if a reasonable comparsion would ever be possible. A screwdriver is not always the best tool of choice, sometimes you need a hammer, and a cost comparsion of both tools does not really make sense. Where either design could make sense. That said: he makes A LOT of ASSUMPTION to make his arguments. it is almost certainly incorrect. That is - onethinks how things work THEN you put them into practice and THEN you can say if it really works like you thought it would. Mistakes are great they force you to improve the understanding of what is REALLY going on.

@Picci25021973 2 года назад

Not with such kind of "math" for sure!

@jullclerc5759 5 лет назад

I do not get this math.. $100/ha divided by 10 000m² = $0.01/m² right? same with $1500/ha divided by 10 000m² = $0.15/m² right?

@malvikaasolanki8582 4 года назад

Can anyone help answer these for me please? How did he arrive at 375 cubic meter/ha air space? and how is the swale air space calculated if the swale is 1.5 m wide (how deep is it?)

@jmhamilton87 7 лет назад

So just so I understand this? Keyline ripping has to be done multiple times a year forever right? Swales are one and done... so after 37 rips, swales are ahead on cost?

@PerennialGrowth 9 месяцев назад

Not forever, you do it 2-4 times depending on how deep you want to go

@anthonyburke5656 10 месяцев назад

There is no comparison, they are each tools, for use as relevant.

@dustystahn3855 6 лет назад

You are looking at one piece of the greater picture. There are many pieces and must all be examined and put together. Designing a system requires it if you are to be successful. Failure to do it is like assembling a jig saw puzzle with pieces missing.