223. Puzzles vs. Problems

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What walks on 4 legs in the morning, 2 legs at noon, & 3 legs at night? A very peculiar dog! ...wait, was that not the answer? Why is it that puzzles are so different from real-life problems?
- Links for the Curious -
Instructional design models for well-structured and ill-structured problem-solving learning outcomes (Jonassen, 1997) - www.davidlewisphd.com/courses/...
Figuring the Riddles of Adventure Games - www.aestheticsofplay.org/pape...
Hotel Concierge - The Stanford Marshmallow Prison Experiment - hotelconcierge.tumblr.com/pos...
Cognitive processes in well‐defined and ill‐defined problem solving - Schraw - 1995 - onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/a...
Cognitive Dissonance During Engineering Design (Purzer, Hilpert, and Wertz, 2011) - archive.fie-conference.org/fie...
Wisdom in Context (Grossman, 2017) - cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jhoey/teachi...
Moving Beyond Formulas and Fixations: Exploring Approaches to Solving Open-Ended Engineering Problems - peer.asee.org/moving-beyond-f...
Who Ya Goima Call? Thoughts About Teaching Problem-Solving (Bramsford, 1994, CH 10) - files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED...
PROBLEM SOLVING ABILITIES (Chi & Glaser, 1983) - apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA134...
Instructional design models for well-structured and ill-structured problem-solving learning outcomes
solving problems vs. solving puzzles - Unity Forum - forum.unity.com/threads/solvi...
that many of the more active minds among those so trained sooner or later react
violently against the deficiencies of their education and develop a passion for
imposing on society the order which they are unable to detect by the means with
which they are familiar. (Hayek 1952, p. 102)
Problems and Puzzles - flm-journal.org/Articles/5D5C...

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16 апр 2022

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Комментарии : 34

@ReynaSingh 2 года назад

These videos are always such great quality. Keep it up

@ToriKo_ 2 года назад

Do I recognise you from Curt Jaimungal’s comment section?

@jonzo_ 2 года назад

This is a really interesting topic! I genuinely used to believe that playing chess helped me solve more general problems. Likewise, I have long held the position that playing RTS games heavily growing up is what led me into a strategy-focused career, and in some way helped develop some of those strategic skills before tertiary ed (emphasis on the latter point in this context). Games like Portal & Superliminal are particularly interesting in this junction. BUT, more recently, I've been sinking my teeth into ML stuff. I think the difference between General Intelligence & Specialised Intelligence is relevant here. You can train an artificial neural network to be very good at a specific thing (like playing Trackmania really well), but if you put that specialised flavour into a different context, the net result is laughable. Seeing this distinction in action has made me question a lot of my above beliefs. Maybe you already have a video on this, but I would love to know your thoughts on what you think people can do to improve their general problem solving skills, or, the tools they can use to solve problems quicker/more effectively when context switching. For instance: Meta Learning/becoming better at learning itself, divergent/convergent thinking (knowing the difference and when to optimise for one or the other based on context), research skills, rapid prototyping skills, or even more obscure things like taking nootropics or microdosing to achieve certain states (creative an open vs concentrated and narrow, for instance). That is, if you think there is good evidence for improving general problem solving skills. Thanks again for putting great content out!

@markbeardsley8107 2 года назад

I work in the field stream and wetland restoration which which is rife with inherently complex, context-specific, ill-structured problems. This episode and the references really helped me understand my frustration with how insistent people tend to be about trying to solve complex ecological problems as if they were well-structured engineering puzzles. When we frame complex ill-structured ecological problems as well-structured ones to get simple clear-cut answers, we have to make so many artificial simplifying assumptions that our restoration efforts often miss the point, resulting in little benefit. Perhaps a different approach is required.

@undercoverduck 2 года назад

This is very interesting in the context of biology/medicine. Many problems in that field are often tackled as rather well-defined initially, only to later find out most phenomena are far more ill-defined than expected. The most glaring example of this might be the Human Genome Project. Many thought we'd solve medicine once we had our hands on that full sequence, but everyone quickly learned that even monogenetic familial disorders (of which there are few compared to their polygenetic/complex counterparts) are far too complex for quick and easy solutions.

@SirTravelMuffin 2 года назад

"... a real puzzle savant who's totally helpless when it comes to planning a wedding." Damn, I have been thoroughly called out haha

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

You & me both, man.

@paulk314 2 года назад

One of my favorite puzzles is the three light bulbs & three switches problem. One thing I find very interesting about it is how people often struggle to solve it even when I say things like "pretend I'm not asking you a puzzle and this were a real life situation. What would you do?" I suspect that in real life, the solution would occur to them pretty quickly, but because it's being asked of them in the form of a riddle, they are stuck in a mindset that prevents them from arriving at the answer.

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

Absolutely! An anecdote I cut from the final script involved a physics prof who brought students into a room & showed them a plate that was cool on the side facing a heater & warm on the opposite side. Students contrived all sorts of crazy theories about how the plate could do this, when the explanation was "The prof turned the plate around before they came into the room." Confusing puzzles & problems can be an obstacle in either direction!

@threethrushes 2 года назад

@@THUNKShow This is a good one.

@ms-fk6eb Год назад

I had accidentally read your hint and then looked up the problem, I considered pulling on the wires or flicking on and off a lot to break the light but quickly cast those ideas aside as they're destructive and indeed un-riddle-like!

@nishnish1616 2 года назад

I'm in the middle of a multiweek discussion to try to make a physics description of one very particular mechanic with my historical fencing group, and it seems like a query that could easily be solved by the puzzle solving method using high school physics as a tool, but as the days drag on we get closer and closer to declaring it magic.

@95GuitarMan13 2 года назад

Ha. Your last quip about cities skylines architects hit home. Up until that point I had been reflecting on the opposite tendency of architects, usually starchitects, who claim they're "identifying and solving problems" when really they're constructing puzzles for themselves to play with.

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

TBH I was really up in the air on that last example & I'm not thrilled with it. I was also thinking surgeon/Surgeon Simulator, FWIW

@TheGemsbok 2 года назад

I am immediately prompted by this video to think of Zachtronics games. These games are a unique subgenre of puzzle games, almost all made by the developer Zachtronics---which set parameters and then allow the player to use a simplistic, restrictive programming language to meet them. Though there are enormous numbers of possible solutions to each level, the games are renowned as being unusually difficult. When the parameters are met, there are often-mutually-exclusive evaluation criteria (fastest operation, least materials used, etc) on which the solution is graded. In this context, it may be possible to construe what makes such games so unique---as well as, for some, so difficult---is that they aren't offering puzzles at all. In the manner defined in this video, their challenges are instead well-defined problems (with maybe even a few ill-defined problems mixed in at some junctures). This resonates with the way in which many have taken to calling them 'problem solving games' as opposed to puzzle games.

@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns 2 года назад

Working in the field of Archaeology, I meet ancient historians who feel their knowledge of ancient history and qualifications in the field make then able to express expert views on pre-history.

@threethrushes 2 года назад

Ah, the old 'expertise in one domain does not confer expertise in another'.

@judgeomega 2 года назад

frequent puzzles and problems in which you are admonished for seeking novel solutions is a subtle poison to our mind. it erects barriers in our mind, limiting what we conceive of. in short, they make us dumb.

@rado7973 2 года назад

40 puz and prob in probability and mathematics from springer defines problems as technical systematic formal tool and puzzles as requiring qualitative insight like new way of representing situation.

@aresmars2003 Год назад

I appreciated the classification of problems versus predicaments. The second seem closer to "ill-defined problems", like "What's the best way to make an educational youtube video?" Should you be informative hoping to maximize content communicated or be entertaining and shallow, knowing most content will be forgotten so better to identify a small number of key concepts that will be remembered if you can keep people attentive?

@raulbustosintriago4856 Год назад

Excelente video, este cabal tiene muy buen material, definitivamente

@Sahuagin 2 года назад

"someone mistaking an ill-structured problem for a well-structured one". a particular youtuber (engineer) was claiming that philosophy should have been able to come up with final answers by now to a lot of its questions, such as the nature of truth, the existence of god, etc.etc., because those questions are not hard to answer.

@issei4975 2 года назад

LOL and then you think the very fact that these questions haven't been answered is what makes them hard questions and it makes the thing even funnier

@ToriKo_ 2 года назад

+ would you consider doing an episode on systems thinking/complex systems (Ackoff and Sterman etc). Have you already done an episode on this? If not I think you may find it interesting

@culedood123 2 года назад

everyone tries to apply their favorite mode of problem-solving to politics, even though it requires a specific modes of inquiry that is different from most other topics

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

Absolutely - one of the things that prompted this episode were people gaming out the Russia/Ukraine situation as if they were playing Civ. 😩

@Xob_Driesestig 2 года назад

Interesting video! I’ll add that to the large pile of reasons to be skeptical of IQ as a measurement of intelligence.

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

(This is the secret subject of the whole video - I just don't want to invoke the g thing because it attracts a certain slice of the landscape I don't want the attention of. 🙃)

@v.sandrone4268 2 года назад

Engineers don't tell people to reboot their computers that is support staff and technicians.... Engineers design systems.

@Macieks300 2 года назад

That was really something interesting and something I've been wondering about since the time that my teachers in school said that learning math or any other school subject supposedly will help me in all other problems in my life by strengthening my brain. As for the questions at the end: it reminded me of this video with Rob Miles where he responded to comments of the type "why don't you just..." where people suggested solutions that supposedly solve the whole field of study after thinking for 5 minutes and writing a two sentence comment under a RU-vid video. But the field of study is AI safety - how to make an AI that is safe for the user and that problem isn't just a brain teaser but something that many groups of researchers have been actively working on for years and haven't even begun to solve yet. Here's that video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i8r_yShOixM.html.

@anakimluke 2 года назад

Josh, can I ask you a favor? Make the black and white balls of probability touch each other as they used to. I find it more more pleasing that way :) Also, why no dog at the end?? :(

@THUNKShow 2 года назад

👉😎👉 You got it.