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Andreas Spiess
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1 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 642   
@k5at
@k5at 5 лет назад
I was an Electronics technician back in the 70's and spent many hours wire wrapping, I think I still have a battery operated wire wrapping tool. Keep up the great videos!
@koz
@koz 5 лет назад
A wire-wrapping tool/'bit' would be a great addition to my ES-121 screwdriver :)
@alaskawoodman
@alaskawoodman 5 лет назад
Yep - had a battery wire wrapping tool myself. Did lots of wire wrapping in telecom closets and data centers. My boss used to give me grief about using the batt operated tool, it wasn't for real tech's....
@paulrautenbach
@paulrautenbach 5 лет назад
I used to have a very cheap wire wrapping tool run on batteries. I loved it. It did a much better job of wire wrapping than the hand tool and was way quicker. I wish I still had it.
@alaskawoodman
@alaskawoodman 5 лет назад
@@paulrautenbach You are not kidding - price one....
@Nicksperiments
@Nicksperiments 5 лет назад
But are the electronics for the battery powered wrapping tool also wire wrapped?
@OliNorwell
@OliNorwell 5 лет назад
I can't believe I didn't know about this, I have wrapping wire and all of a sudden I think I am going to be using it a lot more. Thanks for the hint!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome!
@johncrunk8038
@johncrunk8038 5 лет назад
Like they say -- "if I had a penny for every ...". I can't begin to count the number of wire-wraps I did in my 15 years with IBM. The weekends were for engineering changes and we would rip-and-tear to get everything working by Monday. Thanks for the memories!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I was astonished about the many stories which are told in the comments. It seems everybody has some memories of Wire Wrapping...
@rogerbarton497
@rogerbarton497 2 года назад
Same here with ICL, Burroughs, Perkin Elmer and Mohawk.
@rickscheck5330
@rickscheck5330 5 лет назад
Wire wrapping was used on the Apollo Mission computers. Highly reliable.
@Brausepaul123
@Brausepaul123 5 лет назад
Also welding wires ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vfUhF3BJoBc.html
@Breadbored.
@Breadbored. 5 лет назад
Neat. I wouldn't have guessed that at all.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Interesting. I did not know that!
@DCFusor
@DCFusor 5 лет назад
Wow - I was a DEC field service guy (that's #48818 to you) and maintained some of that node at ARPA - I can vouch for the compliment of machines there, the modem (PDP-11/40 + a rack of BB&N modem stuff) and the main work machine - the PDP-15, were "mine". Back in the day I bought a ton of pre-cut and stripped WW wire, tried out all the tools, wound up mostly using a hand tool (like pictured here), as the manual and C battery guns had "issues. Still have that stuff - I didn't wind up building as many Kaypro/Xerox-820 clones as I'd planned. I'd point out a couple of things - one is that you can hold your long-pinned breakout board into the perfboard with a WW connection, so you don't need solder to hold it on (at least loosely). Second, it pays to put the wires you're most sure of on first, as multilayer wire wraps can get into some real interesting comedy of unwrapping to change one that's under two others...which are under ... and so on. You really do not want to try and reuse a wire-end as said here - the nicks you put in it using it the first time will give trouble later. It maybe should have been mentioned that there needs to be a little insulation involved, so at least part of the first turn (the rules used to say at least one whole turn) is insulated wire. That way a little spring-back won't make for shorts later on.
@dikl2689
@dikl2689 5 лет назад
#180316
@boblewis5558
@boblewis5558 5 лет назад
#64407 - still have my original badge!
@DCFusor
@DCFusor 5 лет назад
@@boblewis5558 That was a great job, if I'd had any idea I might have postponed my career moves for a few more years. I wound up mid-atlantic support in record time. Met Ken O by accident up in Maynard...super good guy. Upvote for DEC guy - we had the world in our hands for awhile.
@followthetrawler
@followthetrawler 5 лет назад
#185184 :) in fact years later when HP acquired 3Com I got my old badge number back but with 10 prepended.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Unfortunately, I forgot my number. I was there from 1988 to 1995
@paulrichmond6903
@paulrichmond6903 5 лет назад
Don’t forget the modified wrap tools. They would wrap 1-2 turns of insulated wire around the pin before wrapping the conductor. This provided a much sturdier connection as it better supported the connecting wire. Very important if there were physical shocks or vibration.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I think You could do it with the tool I have. I just forgot :-(
@RAL2010
@RAL2010 5 лет назад
I object to using wire wrap on a fly, I think that is cruel!
@unlost117
@unlost117 5 лет назад
a fly in a strait jacket ! AWESOME! we should do that to all 94 trillion of them of 'em :P
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Wiring on the fly also does not look much better ;-)
@anotherdave5107
@anotherdave5107 5 лет назад
it doesn't hurt the fly when you use isolated wire rather than insulated wire.
@rrowan327
@rrowan327 5 лет назад
Multiple thumbs up, for finding the arpanet map of 1977 (very cool) and mentioning my hero Bil Herd. Been using wire wrap since mid 1980s. I have the same wrap tool but mine is gold color.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I think you deserve the Golden tool for such a long usage!
@DCFusor
@DCFusor 5 лет назад
@@AndreasSpiess Mine's gold too - I was actually jealous of your blue one. When I got mine, they were all gold... FWIW, the stripper in mine nicked wire pretty often. That's why I went with a box of various lengths and colors of pre stripped stuff. Quality wire strippers that went to 30 awg weren't on every street corner in the '70s, not hardly. There were some adjustable ones that would go that low, kind of but they tended to eat wire - just not repeatably precise enough.
@mahudson3547
@mahudson3547 5 лет назад
I unearthed three in various toolboxes - all gold. One was a 22awg tool and I can’t even remember what that was for...
@DCFusor
@DCFusor 5 лет назад
@@mahudson3547 DEC backplanes - the yellow wire pictured in the vid, were 22 awg. Only later on did stuff go down to #30.
@CYMotorsport
@CYMotorsport 2 года назад
1:32 if you order vintage aviation parts that are decommissioned, you’ll see atleast some of these components use this method. I’m holding a piece of a retired control panel now that’s got 30 analog inputs using wire wrap
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
It is interesting where this technology was used. It looks like unreliable but obviously was very reliable...
@zaprodk
@zaprodk 5 лет назад
I've never done wire wrapping myself, but i've understood being told that it only works (reliably) on square pins, since you get that gas-tight connections when the corners cut into the wire, whereas you don't get this on round pins/legs.
@alaskawoodman
@alaskawoodman 5 лет назад
Having done tens of thousands of telecom connections in the 80's and even 90's I can tell you that square or round work just fine. The higher end equipment had round pins.
@zaprodk
@zaprodk 5 лет назад
@@alaskawoodman cool. Good to know :)
@boblewis5558
@boblewis5558 5 лет назад
The correct pin to use is a square one. The reason is that the connection when done properly, actually cold-welds the wire to the pin. Round pins can work, but I would dispute their superiority. Neither DEC (Where I worked, as did Andreas), IBM nor HP AFAIK ever used round pins and they made about as high end stuff as you could find anywhere. If you unwrap a pin that's been wire-wrapped a long time, the weld points on the pin can usually be seen quite easily. About the only unreliable thing about backplanes made like this (very common) was if the auto wire-wrapped machine broke a wire, it would redo the link, but very occasionally the broken piece of bare wire would end up causing a short between backplane pins. I had a very intermittent fault on a DEC DX11 IBM peripheral interface once, that I spent a whole weekend troubleshooting with a support engineer. We could consistently cause a diagnostic loop failure by rattling the backplane pins but we never found the piece of wire! It required a complete new backplane ordering and fitting to fix the problem. It was real fun and games unplugging and refitting all the modules (around 90 of them) back into the backplane. 😱😁
@anullhandle
@anullhandle 5 лет назад
@@alaskawoodman , I wonder if there's any belcor specs floating around on the interwebs on round pins? Mil stuff was all 025 square posts that I've seen. You could feel the tink tink tink from the cold welds when unwrapping them.
@neilbarnett3046
@neilbarnett3046 5 лет назад
IIRC, there was a type of wire that could be wrapped without stripping, this could only be used with square pins, as the corners could pierce the (very thin) insulation. If you stripped the wire, then round pins were fine. I think the square pins would make the most reliable connection, though, as the wrapping wire is tensioned at the corners and makes the best contact there, with the least oxidation.
@unlost117
@unlost117 5 лет назад
DO NOT wire wrap on any "round pin header posts". VERY UNRELIABLE. Wire wrapping relies on the square corners of the normal (square profile) headers to make a good contact with the wire.
@santopino2546
@santopino2546 5 лет назад
Sure, that's for professional jobs, for prototypes it should be a big issue.
@mt-qc2qh
@mt-qc2qh 5 лет назад
The round posts should be tack soldered after wrapping for reliability.
@unlost117
@unlost117 5 лет назад
@@mt-qc2qh Yes but the idea of wire wrap is to eliminate soldering.We made our prototype board with round machined pins to have the next board to be placed on top. To test it before placing 2nd board on top, we wire wrapped the round pins. When we tested it on the speaker housing which was playing music and perhaps vibrating.....BAD RESULTS. On the bench it was fine. I stand by my FIRST comment. DO NOT wire wrap on any "round pin header posts". VERY UNRELIABLE. Cheers, Mick.
@johnnielake
@johnnielake 4 года назад
@@unlost117 I would imagine the square post edges prevent unwinding, something the round posts don't do
@qwaqwa1960
@qwaqwa1960 5 лет назад
Dupont? IIRC, 7 turns is standard. Your 2-3 turns may work, but would never be acceptable where reliability was desired.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right.
@mikesnapper9001
@mikesnapper9001 5 лет назад
This is great. Nothing annoys me more than having to connect 5 dupont ground wires to 2 ground arduino pins.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
If the pin is long enough you should get 4 wraps on one pin.
@deividasvrubliauskas5584
@deividasvrubliauskas5584 9 месяцев назад
3:12 Whoa. Didn't expect the very cheapest listing of that little tool to be the cost of 4 units of esp32. Decisions, decisions for a student to make 😅
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 9 месяцев назад
Maybe the manufacturing series are not as big as for the ESP32 ;-)
@ollieb9875
@ollieb9875 5 лет назад
YAS! I just got my tool and wire and it is working great, just as you said it would. Very impressed. Thank you Andreas!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
That was fast! Glad it works.
@ollieb9875
@ollieb9875 5 лет назад
@@AndreasSpiess it even says OK INDUSTRIES
@bardenegri21
@bardenegri21 5 лет назад
I had no idea that's what 'wire wrapping wire' ment on AliExpress. I assumed it was for making transformers or motor coils. Getting some to try it out. Thank you!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome. Sometimes old men are quite useful ;-)
@donstratton1401
@donstratton1401 5 лет назад
FYI, wire wrapping goes back to at least the early 50's if not even farther back. Wire wrapping as a technique has been used since the late 1800's, although the first device specifically built to the standards we now think of as "wire wrapping" was not introduced until 1953. I VERY much applaud you making this video, as virtually all young engineers I know are totally unaware of the technology and are generally blown away to find out how it can "outperform" solder in specific applications (thus the use in Apollo et al). You just made the world a slightly better place. :)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I was overwhelmed by the may reactions. I did not expect such an echo.
@AndersJackson
@AndersJackson 5 лет назад
I wire wraped a PDP-8 to change current circuit communication to voltage level RS 232. PDP-8 was really a simple architecture, without even a stack and CALL- and RET-instructions. Ah, the memories of wrapping together a small computers with a 6809, 8085 or 8031 and some ram, rom and IO devices.
@boblewis5558
@boblewis5558 5 лет назад
The joys of the "Omnibus"! Unibus on PDP11s frequently needed the bus grant jumper adding or removing for config changes from different boards. SO easy to get wrong though!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
My Z80 (TRS-80 was already on a PCB. No need for wire wrapping there. But at other places.
@AndersJackson
@AndersJackson 5 лет назад
​@@AndreasSpiess PDP 8 is older then both TRS-80, the z80 CPU and then 8080. Yes, some of the earlier 8080-8085 (and later Z80) based computers was also wire wrapped. Later was based on PCB:s, as it isn't as expensive to mass produce. In the University back in 1982, when I first studied Computer, we used wire wrapping a lot. Great for prototyping. The PDP 8 was the first mini computer in the world, which means that it was much smaller then previous computers.It could be bought by a research group in a University, in the offices. Not like the previous computer. Yes, a mini computer back then weight about 200-300 kg, might have a HD and probably tapes as storage. And several terminals to work from. The PDP-8 was built by wire wrapping flip chips together. Those was basically the same functions in later TTL chip, but by discrete components on a PCB. PDP-11 was also a mini computer, but PDP-8 was a 12 bit computer, and the PDP-11 was a 16 bit computer, and it was inspiration for the 68000 CPU:s.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I used to work for DEC. So I know parts of the history. But most of it using VAX computers and clusters
@hanpahomeautomation4101
@hanpahomeautomation4101 5 лет назад
The main disadvantage is that it builds height and the long pins has a risk of bending, causing short-circuits. I prefer soldering and use a small piece of experimental circuit board for external components. Another method I've used is experimental boards and solder using wire wrapping wire. Since this wire is so thin, it's rather easy to add more connections later since you can easily have 4-5 wires in the same hole. Heat up again with the soldering iron, stick in another wire. Doesn't build height.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
This is another use of these wires. A few viewers mentioned they do it this way,
@TheRainHarvester
@TheRainHarvester 5 лет назад
Cool, I'm going to get some ww wire at radio shack...oops
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Yes, the old days are gone... I still have my TRS-80 made by Tandy Radio Shack.
@z51bob
@z51bob 5 лет назад
Glad to see that I’m not the only one still using wire wrap for projects. Just bought a new ok tool - lost the old one I built my altair clone with. I like the built in stripper also, you should wrap clockwise 6-8 turns. The dupont connectors are great for breadboarding and I use them a lot. However, if you want a reliable prototype or 1 off part, wirewrap is much better.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right. But I am lefthanded. So my wraps are the other way round. So far I had no complaints from the electrons ;-) I tried to remove one of the relatively short wraps and only tore the wire apart. I made them shorter because often we only have short pins, not as in the past. But like that, you still get 2 or even 3 connections on one pin.
@John2009R
@John2009R 5 лет назад
Is it normal to wrap counter-clockwise? I know it doesn't matter for the connection purpose but if you are trying to unwrap someone else's work it could be annoying. I always wrap clockwise as it seems more natural like driving a screw. I've only done this as a hobbyist so I don't know if there is a convention.
@rantalbott6963
@rantalbott6963 5 лет назад
He's using his left hand to turn the tool. It seems like it would be the more natural motion to go from the tip of the index finger toward the base to do the twisting. Every powered WW tool I've ever seen, and every wire-wrapped assembly, was clockwise. I wonder if they discriminated against left-handed people back in the days when it was common to protect the "standard" ;-)
@tonysouthern3017
@tonysouthern3017 5 лет назад
It matters when you come to use the unwrap tool. It only works one way!
@John2009R
@John2009R 5 лет назад
@@rantalbott6963 I am actual left-handed. We get used to it
@rjhornsby
@rjhornsby 5 лет назад
threaded fasteners are almost always “righty tighty, lefty loosey.” Seems like a natural approach for this as well?
@Conservator.
@Conservator. 5 лет назад
AndreasSpiess Do you know there is a wire stripper in the middle of the wire wrapping tool?
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Yes, but I did not like it. Maybe I did not exercise long enough...
@chrisharper2658
@chrisharper2658 5 лет назад
I see Andreas didn't do any wire wrap in the 80's. In your example, the wrap went the wrong direction, did not include enough turns to insure it is tight enough to create the 'cold weld' required and the newer modified wrap includes a little insulation in the wrap to proved strain relief. The easiest way to prep the wire is to use the OK Industries ST-100 stripper/cutter. Bought one back in the 80's and I see they still sell them today. And if you really want to get serious, consider the G200 hand operated wire wrap tool and the appropriate bit set. Its a lot cheaper that the electric or battery operated tools and will last a lifetime. While not exactly cheap either, it does do a pretty good job. Sorry for some of the negative feedback here but I hate to see bad habits taught to noobs. But I really to appreciate all you do to teach technology.
@MatSmithLondon
@MatSmithLondon 5 лет назад
Chris H Hey, at least he brought the concept to the wider viewership! I’d never heard of wire wrapping and I studied electronics at A Level in the late 90s!
@madrian_hello
@madrian_hello 5 лет назад
Andreas, great video, I never heard of this method before. Thanks. One more question: don't you plan to make a video about ESP power saving with Attiny13/85 with measurements?
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I plan a video about low power, but did not decide what to include
@pdrg
@pdrg 5 лет назад
I also like wire wrap for any experimental work - in the time it takes to find and heat up an iron, I've already connected the board :)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Another advantage!
@robertthompson5908
@robertthompson5908 4 года назад
I love this video! I discovered wire wrapping a few years ago when I started working on vintage 1970's stereo amplifiers. I even bought a wire wrapping tool. Recently I started building a project with a microcontroller and several boards and it occurred to me why not use wire wrapping instead of Dupont connectors or soldering wires directly to the boards, or spending money on fancy connectors. Apparently it wasn't a crazy idea!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 4 года назад
Very cool!
@r1273m
@r1273m 5 лет назад
Well this takes me back! I thought I was the only one here to still have WW equipment. I always use the stripper in the middle of the tool and if you're planning on buying a hand WW tool make sure it does the "modified wrap". This puts a turn of insulated wire around the post first and prevents wire breaking at this critical point. For components such as resistors and capacitors I use single sided WW pins which have a notch on the upper side to solder the component wire to. I have built Z80, 6809 and 68HC11 boards in the dim distant past using this technique. I remember being at Plessey in the early 1980's when computerised WW was introduced for wiring backplanes; it reduced the time per board from almost a full day to just 20 minutes each! Bob
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I think modern 3D printer technology would help to build such a "computerized wire wrapper" ;-)
@leisergeist
@leisergeist 5 лет назад
It's recommended not to wire wrap round leads like those on resistors The sharp-ish corners of square pins bind into the wire and make the connection strong and reliable, whereas the wire would just unspool from a round pin
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right.
@ecky_thump
@ecky_thump 5 лет назад
Brings back memories... like others who have commented, I too still have my wire wrap tools (battery operated and manual) bought from RS back in the early 90s. One point to note (not sure if this was mentioned by someone else) but you don’t really need a separate stripping tool as that is already built into the handle (see small hole and black metal plate with a slot). I found this perfectly adequate for prototyping but perhaps not so good for large boards with many hundreds of connections, but then you would use the electric tool anyway. I had a preference to use blue wire for data lines, green for address lines, red for Vcc, black for Gnd.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
The hole was mentioned a few times. I tried it but was not happy with it. This is why I used my "trusted" tool.
@CrazyCoupleDIY
@CrazyCoupleDIY 5 лет назад
I still use this in my projects, they are Highly reliable
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
:-)
@richardgrier4721
@richardgrier4721 5 лет назад
I still have my wire wrap tools, both manual and battery powered and some wire wrap IC sockets. I occasionally use them, though Dupont cables are my "go to" for quick Arduino projects, simply because of the female headers on the boards. If I want a "permanent" prototype and it is digital, I will consider wire wrap. However, analog circuits can develop unexpected issues when wire wrap is used, so I avoid it for analog circuits. Resistors are a pain and decoupling capacitors should be soldered in place, even in wrapped designs.
@Brausepaul123
@Brausepaul123 5 лет назад
Can you tell me if the connection gets worse if the contacts (pins) are used multiple times? In my training at the power station, we dismantled a switchgear and it was possible to change the pins there.
@richardgrier4721
@richardgrier4721 5 лет назад
If the pins (posts) were designed for wire wrap, they are fairly hard (tougher than conventional pins), with square posts, and may be used/reused multiple times. Of course, eventually they may show some wear. If the "switch gear" is the sort used for old telephone systems, then it is designed for lots of reuse. If it is something else, then "maybe?"
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I totally agree with the caps.
@leef_me8112
@leef_me8112 5 лет назад
Corrections: @3:58 You wrapped the wire using the wrong rotation, it should be clockwise. @ 4:15 you said there is a 'channel', this is incorrect. @3:48 you inserted the wire into the tool, it goes into a tube that is not completely closed, you can see the wire depth. www.industrial-electronics.com/images/et-4e_24-19b.jpg
@izzyramos-gunn9895
@izzyramos-gunn9895 3 года назад
I have a project where I have a 24pin dip chip that I want to mount on a pcb. I want to be able to have the DIP socket leads go though pcb and out the other side so I can attach dupont or wire wrapping I think.
@rkaid577
@rkaid577 5 лет назад
Very interesting! I wasn't alive in the 70s (and I was a child in the 80s) so I didn't know about this technique. Thanks for showing it!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome!
@sanjaybhatikar
@sanjaybhatikar 3 года назад
Wow, this is incredible!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
Indeed this was an interesting technology and huge computers were built like that.
@KennethTanFotografie
@KennethTanFotografie 5 лет назад
Used it on IBM S34 S36 and S38 systems back then. The connections were solid and trustworthy. Just wondering why I didn't use it like you showed before. Hope it catches on again. I hate DuPont wires for their unreliability in test setups. For the 3D printer folks: www.thingiverse.com/thing:653576
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Thank you for the link!
@stepkaf
@stepkaf 5 лет назад
Wow, this is really cool! Yesterday I was completing my project, although I love programming and electronics, I found out that my shaky hands are not compatible with soldering. This is really cool way to connect stuff. Thanks for this video!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Glad to read that it can help to enjoy your hobby even more!
@VitalyStockman
@VitalyStockman 5 лет назад
What an amazing discovery! Literally saves a lot of time and creates new opportunities. Thank you for bringing it up, Andreas!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome!
@lmamakos
@lmamakos 5 лет назад
I had ARPANET IMP #17 at our site at the U of MD back in the day in one of my computer rooms, and I operated the first ARPANET/NSFNET interconnects with it. (On a MicroVAX-II, sorry no wire-wrap in that beast.) Though I think I recall doing some wire-wraps on a UNIBUS backplane when we didn't have any bus-grant cards available.. And on a bunch of boards, you selected options/addresses/etc using wire-wrap jumpers between pins rather than those expensive DIP switches that took up a lot more room, too.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
VAX was more my time at DEC. I wrote my Ph.D. work on my VAXstation in WYSIWYG. The employees sometimes were able to buy one for cheap :-)
@rjhornsby
@rjhornsby 5 лет назад
I’ve gotten to hate crimping DuPont connectors so much that I’m starting to just buy m/f prefabricated jumper wires and [re]assembling/cutting them as I need. Half the time even the prefab ones (esp the f ends) have such sloppy tolerance they fall off the pins.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I also use mostly prefabricate wires.
@raffyturc
@raffyturc 5 лет назад
Never done wire-wrapping..but these are what I use to 'wire' my prototype circuits(protoboards/dual layer) with soldering.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
A few viewers do it the same way.
@HappyHermitt
@HappyHermitt Год назад
I did lots of wrapping. It's tedious after. Especially when terminating thousands of pairs. They make guns for wrapping also.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess Год назад
You are right. A viewer donated such a gun to me. Very simple to use...
@reiner0609
@reiner0609 5 лет назад
There are also wire wrapping tools for AWG-26 wires but the ones I know of cost around 120 EUR which seems crazy. If somebody knows a source for such a tool and AWG-26 wrapping wires that is considerably cheaper, I would be really interested.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Some viewers even wrote about 22AWG wrappers.
@Naesstrom
@Naesstrom 5 лет назад
Wow... almost as big a revelation as learning about the "NASA splice" BTW, found a pack on Ali with 6 spools of wire and the tool all in one!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Maybe the handling of 6 separate rolls is easier.
@joeblow8047
@joeblow8047 5 лет назад
This technology is still in common use in the telecom industry on wire frames. Yes we use slightly lager wire (22 to 24) gauge.
@tonysouthern3017
@tonysouthern3017 5 лет назад
Really? Insulation displacement connections like Krone is super common but haven’t seen wire wrap blocks in telcos for YEARS. As a matter of interest, where have you seen this used recently?
@pileofstuff
@pileofstuff 5 лет назад
@@tonysouthern3017 Not who you asked, but I was re-working some T1s on a DSX last week and had to break out my wire wrap tools for the job.
@joeblow8047
@joeblow8047 5 лет назад
I work for a major telecom in the midwest and still have some solder blocks.
@RobinCernyMitSuffix
@RobinCernyMitSuffix 5 лет назад
@@tonysouthern3017 The reason is just that ther are old installations out there. I live also in Switzerland like Andreas does and was a former Electrician (they do most of the "wire" part of telecommunication infrastructures), and I worked on modern Terminals like the VS system from Reichle de Massari (R&M) which is really REALLY easy to use and extremely fast. And I had to solder or wirewrap on older Terminals, some are with screw terminals etc... and I worked mostly in one small City with around 25'000 citizens. And if you know that like I do, it's really not surprising why DSL (which uses these connections) has so much trouble with speed and reliability ^^
@FantaBH
@FantaBH 5 лет назад
Thank you for this video , you indeed reminded me on old times :P
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You seem not to be alone ;-)
@Mirandorl
@Mirandorl 5 лет назад
SORCERY :O Not only the wrapping, but you stripped a tiny wire without ripping its head off. I usually have to resort to burning some insulation off. Thank you swiss accent guy!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
:-)
@followthetrawler
@followthetrawler 5 лет назад
I spent many hours wire-wrapping in the 70's - I then rewrapped a VAX 11/780 backplane in 1989 - tens of thousands of wraps over a week because there was no replacement in Europe - got 3 wraps wrong in all of those - I wouldnt ever want to go back to it :)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I can imagine... But back then we did not have multi-layered PCBs and high-density ICs. So it was probably the only way to do so many connections in a small space.
@TheM4rten
@TheM4rten 5 лет назад
A really nice addition to that fast wiring method is also those "self-adhesive elastic bandage" or in german "schnellpflaster" (google). They are perfect for wraping around PCB's to secure loose wires and also wraping several PCB's together. They also can be reused and you can use them for allmost everything ( dipping it into 2 component glues and wrap it around something, to wrap around handles etc.) i absolutley love them and it is a great enrichment for a makers lab :-)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Good tips. Thank you!
@ernievault
@ernievault Год назад
Kynar insulated wire wrap wire, if you have the proper stripping tool, is also really handy for replacing traces on PC boards. Assorted prestripped wire is the sh*ts. I still have a parts box full of the different lengths from decades ago. I don't think you can get it anymore. Anyway, wire wrapping is the easiest way to prototype digital circuits.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess Год назад
I agree, it is hard to find accessories for wire wrapping today (also the sockets).
@danharold3087
@danharold3087 5 лет назад
I realize this is a bit late but the mention of no quality solderless breadboards in your most recent vid moved this to the top of my stack. The good wire wrapped stuff from days gone by used gold plated pins. If one uses cheap wire wrap sockets the results are not nearly as good. Maybe time for the ANT pcb router :)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Since the Chinese produce cheap 2 layer PCBs I do no more mill mine.
@DougHanchard
@DougHanchard 5 лет назад
Those were the days. #Arpanet
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right!
@JeffCM1
@JeffCM1 5 лет назад
When you have a rack of boards that have to be wire wrapped, you could get 4 wires to a 1 inch pin. The problem came when you had to remove the bottom ones. For an easy mod you could remove all 4 wires but on a complex circuit, it became a nightmare. I still have PTSD waking up in a sweat about doing mods to complex wire wrapped multi racks. If you can do it in software, so much the better. A wire wrap tool might be good for simple circuits but wouldn't recommend it for complex circuits.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
There is a reason why this technology is no more used for whole boards. Multi-layer PCB and Software configuration is much cheaper and more convenient. But for special purposes I still like it.
@dicktonyboy
@dicktonyboy 5 лет назад
Ah happy days with my automatic wire wrap gun. It cut, stripped and wrapped all in a single, rapid move. As you say the joints were as good as solder as they were 'gas tight' around the corners of the pins.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
We also had to do much more wraps per hour. So automation was needed...
@GeeWillikersMan
@GeeWillikersMan 5 лет назад
Still my preferred method. Reliable, correctable, beautiful. There is a special tool for stripping the wire btw.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
In tomorrows video you will see that it works also with quite high currents ;-)
@RobertShaverOfAustin
@RobertShaverOfAustin 5 лет назад
Here's some detailed info about wire wrapping www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/wire_wrap_is_alive_and_well
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Thank you for the link!
@userou-ig1ze
@userou-ig1ze 3 года назад
the AliExpress link for the wrapping tool is outdated. Any new recommendation? There seem to be a lot of wire wrapper for jewelery (no clue why that would be useful). Unsure if that's the right item!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
I do not know. This is an old video and offers change quite fast on AliExpress :-(
@dtesta
@dtesta 5 лет назад
Wrapping wires are cool. But 13 USD is a bit much for a simple piece of metal. I can buy 3-4 Chinese soldering irons for that price :)
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I only need one soldering iron ;-) But you are right!
@evren.builds
@evren.builds 5 лет назад
Wow did not know this even existed. Btw are there any sources online I can buy good solder wire? Especially on aliexpress?
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Watch my recent video about tools
@MaxWattage
@MaxWattage 5 лет назад
Personally, I find the Verowire system to be superior to the wire-wrap system. It doesn't need long wire-wrap pins for every component, so the resulting board can be much thinner, and neater, and the electrical connections are soldered rather than friction-based. The fine enamelled wires between components are bundled together and routed as busses using plastic verowire "combs" that push into the 0.1" pitch holes on square-pad veroboard. I use a thicker gauge of enamelled wire for the power rails, and then the vero-pen spools of fine wire for the signal connections, Pro-tip: After pushing the comb's plastic mounting pins through the board from below, you use a soldering iron to melt the top of the plastic mounting pins, which rivets the comb to the board and stops them moving or coming lose.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right. Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. I also used these enameled wires and did not like them too much. Especially if I needed more than one wire to a pin.
@mrrodgersphysics
@mrrodgersphysics 5 лет назад
That was interesting, and maybe even useful. I'll admit, I had forgotten about wire wrapping myself!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are not the only if I read the comments!
@ptmoy1
@ptmoy1 4 года назад
The only wire wrap tool I can find is one similar to the one shown in your video for 30 gauge wires. Will that tool work with cat5e cables, which are 24 gauge? I ask because the wrapping wires you show is labeled either 24 or 26 gauge.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 4 года назад
I only used 30AWG wires, so I cannot tell.
@marcelhoenke7007
@marcelhoenke7007 5 лет назад
There is also another wire wrap technology. You need a wiring pencil for this. I used it often in the 80ˋs for fast prototyping. See also en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_pencil To make a fast prototyp, you need a Veroboard (Stripboard) for soldering the components, a wiring pencil to make the connections between the components and wire distribution strips to lay the wires on the stripboard. Because the wires are very thin and are laid one above the other, this connection technology is only suitable for low current, low voltage and low freqency signals.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I also used it but never liked it very much :-(
@jamesmdeluca
@jamesmdeluca 5 лет назад
P.S. The offered tools (as well as your OK Machine Tool hand wrapper) support the "modified wrap".
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
The problem was the guy with the tool, not the tool ;-)
@dennischerry4545
@dennischerry4545 5 лет назад
I still have my wire wrapping tool. Going to put it to work again.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
If I read the comments there must still be many tools around...
@makecodeandhardware1395
@makecodeandhardware1395 5 лет назад
I use fine wrapping wire because it is less conspicuous for fashion and music but I solder it for security for wearables. To remove the insulation I flame the wire ends as shown in this vid.: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O-f_mdVpPDo.html
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
The wrapping is as solid as soldering, even if it is not obvious. But of course, you can also solder these thin wires.
@marksmithcollins
@marksmithcollins 2 года назад
I used wire wrapping in military. Wrapping guns and hand tools both.... If there are pins already, there is no use not to use wire wrapping instead of flimsy plastics LOL
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
I agree!
@sethlavinder
@sethlavinder 5 лет назад
I’d love to see links to affordable wire wrapping supplies. Last time I gave consideration to trying this out the sticker shock left me running the other way! I also agree DuPont connectors suck!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
Maybe you check the links in the video description?
@keithhowell
@keithhowell 11 месяцев назад
I work on Dimetrics Gold Track 2 power supplies which use wire wrap. The biggest problem they used all white wires.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 11 месяцев назад
That was the standard I know. We also did not use different wire colors.
@PaulsScripts
@PaulsScripts 5 лет назад
This method was used in telephone exchanges. C.N.G. Call Number Generator
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I read that it was heavily used in the telco industry. I never worked there.
@tonysouthern3017
@tonysouthern3017 5 лет назад
I made my first z80 based home computer on wire wrap boards. Used a cut-strip-wrap tool I think, or at least I used soft insulation wire, as I didn’t need cutters or strippers.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
A few other viewers also described this technology. I newer used it.
@dirk-janfaber
@dirk-janfaber 5 лет назад
Somehow your video's keep costing me money. But as it is well spend, it is no problem. Thank you for the video!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome! My videos also cost me money ;-) But I rather spend it on these little gadgets than for things like cigarettes or extensive alcohol...
@AOEraVet
@AOEraVet 3 года назад
CDC 6600 had a 3'x7' x 6" wire mat. All wire wrapped. Fun stuff!!!??
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
Good to know. My university had a CDC machine where we learned Pascal...
@patrickcardon1643
@patrickcardon1643 10 месяцев назад
Remembering drooling over the tools in my Tandy books and catalogs way back then, but ended up buying a soldering iron
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 9 месяцев назад
They do nor replace a soldering iron. So you made a good decision
@MetalheadAndNerd
@MetalheadAndNerd 5 лет назад
What about the "Fädeltechnik" where a wire with a special insulation material is dragged from point to point and the insulation burns off wherever the wire is touched with a soldering iron? I never used this but my father told me about it.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I used it also and it worked. But for me, it is not a replacement for Dupont wires. It is more a replacement for PCBs. I do not know if you still can buy the needed tool.
@robroysyd
@robroysyd 2 года назад
Just another gent who did a lot of wire rapping in the '70s. Much easier with a mains powered tool and a good wire stripper with a length guide. If I recall correctly there was even some instances of larger pins and wires for higher currents. Using round pins is not ideal, it's the sharp edges of the square pin biting into the solid copper wire that makes the joint so reliable.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
I agree with the power tool and the square pins! For a small amount of connections, the manual tool is ok. But for a computer backplane...
@hulkgqnissanpatrol6121
@hulkgqnissanpatrol6121 5 лет назад
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ethernet wires are the same type of wire arnt they? Wax coated?
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I checked my Ethernet cables and they contained stranded wires.
@Fridelain
@Fridelain 3 года назад
The tool you buy on Aliexpress has a wire stripper integrated in the handle. You can DIY a toold by drilling a small hole on the side near the end if a small tube, such as the plastic tube from a q-tip, or a in pen lead. Feed the wire from the end through the inside of the tube and the hole you drilled.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
I know of the integrated stripper, but I did not like it. Maybe I was using it the wrong way...
@lesliesaunders7625
@lesliesaunders7625 5 лет назад
Hi Andreas, I remember using battery powered wirewrap guns. They speeded up production immensly but neede some practice to get right.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
We also had those. But they are quite expensive these days, I think.
@BinaryRhyme.JackOfArts
@BinaryRhyme.JackOfArts 2 года назад
Ahh, takes me back. Also cut and strapping on PCBs with bugs, lol
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
It seems a lot of viewers had a flash-back ;-)
@S0K0N0MI
@S0K0N0MI 4 года назад
The accent made the tutorial 10 time better. Thanks Andreas!
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 4 года назад
You are welcome!
@tazman4855
@tazman4855 5 лет назад
Your wire wrapping tool includes a wire stripper in the center. Just thread it through the wide side and pull it down. Also I use another bigger size tool to wrap breadboard size wires. Much easier than soldering. Surprisingly reliable as well.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I did not like the built-in wire stripper
@4000phil
@4000phil 2 года назад
All your vids extremely interesting. In your experience in which cases would use this method against traditional Dupont connections? I wish to connect 7 DS18B20 sensor + 4.7k ohm resistor to an ESP8266 and with soldering I was wondering, but this technique seems to do it. Next, what pin's lengths are you recommanding? Thanks
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
These days you have to use the pins you get and cannot chose their length, I fear. You can wrap the wire around the wires of the resistors. They should stick.
@4000phil
@4000phil 2 года назад
@@AndreasSpiess The other way, wrap around the resistor, good idea, I'll try when I get the order
@SVader11
@SVader11 3 года назад
The wire wrapping tool comes with its own wire stripper. It's the one on the hole near the center of the handle. It's perfect for AWG #30.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
You are right. But I did not like it...
@pileofstuff
@pileofstuff 5 лет назад
Wire wrapping is still used in the telecommunications industry for cross-connecting T1 DSX (patch panels). These use 22AWG 5 conductor wire and a similar tool (clearly slightly larger to acommodate the larger wire) Though it is rapidly disappearing as discrete T1 circuits are seldom installed any more.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I think software configuration is faster and can be done remotely which is a big advantage these days...
@pileofstuff
@pileofstuff 5 лет назад
@@AndreasSpiess Absolutely. Plus these days a T1 (and the to the E1 in your part of the world) is considered a very low speed circuit. And is becoming obsolete as telephone system transmission moves away from TDM to more flexible packet based .
@johnf4085
@johnf4085 2 года назад
Jesus Christ, I bought a Dupont tool and it's been such a pain in the ass. Wish I knew about this years ago.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 2 года назад
Both have its uses, I think. At least in my lab.
@santopino2546
@santopino2546 5 лет назад
I worked for the the Italian division of the German Industrial automation company Hartman& Braun for 13 years, for several years from 1987 I worked on the Contronic 3 automation system for power stations, a project could be formed by about 50 two meter tall cabinets filled with eurocard size electronic cards all wire wrapped on the back plane, I was in the testing department, and had quite a job correcting wiring and simulating operations. Luckily we got two computer controlled machines that were capable together with an operator to reduce a two week cabling job on a cabinet to two days, with near zero mistakes reducing drastically my time for checking. Today we use DCS and 99% of the wireing has been substituted with SW.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
I think we are all glad we do no more need extensive wire wrapping. But sometimes it still can help.
@santopino2546
@santopino2546 5 лет назад
@@AndreasSpiess I'm not using wire wrap for my prototypes, for quick prototypes I prefer using copper strip pre drilled breadboards, I use a 3mm drill bit to interrupt the copper strips where needed and use wire wrap wire cut to size for jumps. I'm also use the UV Positive Photoresist and etching method, and the CNC milling and drilling method.
@zhuk462
@zhuk462 3 года назад
I'd like to have the same tool for 22AWG .... AWG 30 is too thin for me...
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
This was the standard back then...
@srfrg9707
@srfrg9707 5 лет назад
Thanks for you video. I though those tools where not available for years anymore. I am going to order on right now.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are welcome!
@PHamster
@PHamster 5 лет назад
Omg I still have my Wire Wrap Drill
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
So you can save the money!
@williamwatson1532
@williamwatson1532 5 лет назад
I still have a Z80 system I made this way - wire wrap was my go to method for prototyping. But a sea of blue wires could be a problem when debugging so thanks for the tip of using coloured wires. I will now track down my old WW tool...
@Rcbeacon
@Rcbeacon 5 лет назад
Back in the early 80s I made quite complex Z80 and 6502 systems using wire-wrap IC sockets and thousands of wires. Very tedious but eventually satisfying when it worked. I still use the same wire for jumpers as it's coated in high-temperature plastic and very easy to solder. Just yesterday I was wire wrapping a couple of small DC-DC converter modules onto a board.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
The Chinese Wires are not very heat-resistant. But colored ;-)
@Rcbeacon
@Rcbeacon 5 лет назад
I think the wire we originally used was 30 AWG, the conductor was silver coated with teflon insulation. No internet and very little mail-order back then so we had to go through manufacturers agents, wait long delivery times and pay high prices. We used hand tools for wire wrap IC sockets and connectors on boards but had electric tools for the larger size wiring between panels. Another technique we used was to plan out CPU-RAM-EPROM-IO wiring between sockets then cut-twist-solder wire-wrap wire using standard IC sockets. A lot of it was data and address bus runs so easily duplicated. This method made a lower profile and more robust board. These boards were only clocked at 2-4MHz so wire layout wasn't too much of an issue for one-off industrial controllers.
Год назад
Wonderful tool. it save lots of time. Thank you for recording the video.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess Год назад
You are welcome!
@Chris-ZL
@Chris-ZL 5 лет назад
works best on square wires. the corners dig into your wire wrap wire and exclude oxygen. the phrase cold welding was often heard. We were warned not to use the technique on round wires.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
You are right. But we are only "Makers" and have to debug our devices ourselves. So, round is ok for me. And if it does not stick, a little solder. ;-)
@luclachapelle3499
@luclachapelle3499 7 месяцев назад
LOL ... I'v used-it so many times There is even a splicer on the tool !
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 7 месяцев назад
Indeed, this was a very common practice…
@_aiborie
@_aiborie Год назад
Fascinating stuff! Recently bought that same multi-colored wire for a small project and somehow ended up watching this video 😊
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess Год назад
I use these 30AWG wires for several things in my lab. Particularly to correct errors on my PCBs. They are very thin and easy to solder also to small pins.
@_aiborie
@_aiborie Год назад
​@@AndreasSpiess Appreciate the response! I'll be using them to repair PCB traces indeed. Amused by the history behind it, also watched the Wire Wrap video you recommended by Bil Herd. Thank you!
@falsedragon33
@falsedragon33 5 лет назад
We still do this in telco. Although cooper and dsx panels have been disappearing over time.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 5 лет назад
A few others posted similar things. But most of them are already replaced, I think.
@andrewbeasley
@andrewbeasley 5 лет назад
The main computer I used at collage at the start of my interest was a PDP-8e! I remember the core memory and a HDD encased in concrete (took three of us to get the replacement upstairs) but no wire wrap boards in it or internet come to that :-( Main problem on round pins was if the wire slips off. Not normally an issue with one or two wires but when you had a few more, the last tended to slip unless you kept the tension on the wire between pins reasonably tight.
@zachreyhelmberger894
@zachreyhelmberger894 5 лет назад
Please include link to the wire stripper! I had no idea such a tool existed! I always used the stripper on the wrapping tool but it is so hard to pull! I am trying to connect very short connections and stripping the wire after making the first connection is almost impossible.
@rantalbott6963
@rantalbott6963 5 лет назад
You really want to strip both ends of the wire before you wrap. If you do "strip-wrap-strip-wrap", you can put a lot of strain on the wrapped end of the wire. You also want a really precise stripper: with wires that fine, and insulation that thin, the difference between "no strip" and "nicked wire" is *very* small. The one I used back in my wire-wrapping days had two parallel blades whose separation was set with a multi-turn screw mechanism. Sadly, the lack of results from a Google image search suggest that it isn't made anymore.
@zachreyhelmberger894
@zachreyhelmberger894 5 лет назад
Thank you @@rantalbott6963! I am using 30ga (kynar??) and use the stripper built in to the wrap tool. But it is so hard to pull. My fingers hurt from pressing so hard on the tiny wire to get enough force to pull off the insulation. Is there a tool for grasping the wire, especially short ones so I can quickly make connections without raising blisters?
@jean9910
@jean9910 3 года назад
Is 30 awg capable of powering arduino 5v sensors at 8 ft.
@AndreasSpiess
@AndreasSpiess 3 года назад
I do not know, I do not use 30AWG for long power lines. You have to do your calculations/measurements.
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