I really like the concept of the "combo dice" thing, with one issue. I see that system slowing the game down significantly, as the rogue is spending extended time either trying to find the absolute 100% most optimal position to get as many combo dice as possible (there is nothing wrong with being efficient, and going for the best move, but you are in a combat situation, so you shouldn't have a lot of time to do it), in addition to the fact that, with all the little moving parts, there is likely going to be a lot of time spent just figuring out what combo dice you have, even when you aren't actively looking for the most efficient situation possible. And don't get me started on how often the whole "Oh, I was actually supposed to get 2 more combo dice for that last attack, because of X and Y" situation will come up.
I reworked Rogues for my campaign setting, but they are classed as 'Warriors' (as the categories are Warrior, Hybrid, and Spellcasters). As such I gave them Fighting Styles, which are basically martial arts with a passive and then a set of combat abilities. This makes them much more versatile and capable in combat. Though they are most adept at taking advantage of stealth and surprise compared to Fighters or Barbarians.
I don't think rogues should get extra attack, if you want to fight with 2 daggers you already can with two weapon fighting/the light property. I don't think a rogue should be able to make 3 attacks. I do like the idea of the cunning action free attack though.
Why? I think rouge should get more attacks because rouge is a one trick pony what he has is sneak attack which is great for high hp single enemy but for useless fodder.. Not so much... rouges aka thiefs as they were called were specifically created for old school d&d which favored exploration and tresure hunting and combat was less common however when you did encounter combat you had less but stronger enemies to fight. So thieves were excellent choice with their backstab mechanic. In 3e which was more combat focused thieves got sneak attack and more attacks and it worked well you used sneak attack for casters and other high priority targets and normal attacks for fodder. 5e is like d&d 3e since focus is on combat and yet rouge plays more like pre-3e... wtf? I mean even 3e was kinda shit they took things that made rouges aka thieves unique and give them to everyone now everyone can hide.
The Rogue is by FAR my favorite 5E class. There isn't even a close second. Used intelligently, Rogues can turn fights around or win them before they begin. If I join a campaign and there isn't a Rogue, I play Rogue. Starting a new campaign? Rogue. Joining a campaign that has a Rogue? Multiclass Rogue.
There actually is a reworked rogue by this guy called LaserLlama, it's pretty good and has a lot of unique features like almost battlemaster maneuvers, he also did that sort of revamp for all the martial classes in the game and they're pretty good, this guy is probably one of the best yet underrated homebrewers in the community so definitely check his stuff out.
I've always thought any class should have multiple attacks that's why I like your weapon abilities that way if they give up extra attack they do extra effect. Also bleeding or a speed debuff seems a very rogue option and I do love the attack with the dash or disengage bonus(thinking maybe a ranged attack if use hide)
Yeah, maybe just all Rogue attacks get "bleed" instead of Extra Attack. Happens at level 5, like Extra Attack would. Maybe it's like 2d6 at 5, then goes up to 3d8 at 11 and 4d10 at 16 or whatever? (I don't actually remember where Fighter gets their 3rd and 4th attacks)
@@Paradox-es3bl The answer on your question is level 5, 11, 20 And I like that idea about "bleed attacks" but maybe only on Nat20 and rolls with proficiency
you're pretty good at this game design stuff. Now that I'm thinking about it, the combo thing might actually be a good idea for Monks, with the whole combo idea of fighting games feeding into it
As a Rogue main, I disagree with quite a few things here. First rogues need to be skill monkeys. Casters are distinguished by the type of magic, and the type of spells they focus on; warriors by the armor, arms, and way they serve punishment to enemies. Rogues make themselves by their skills. If your rogue fantasy is the sneaky infiltrator, an investigator, or the skills and expertise needs to reflect that. It isn't about just being able to use the skill, or be okay with the skill, it is about being the best with that skill. Sneak attack is currently at the easiest it has ever been to use. The older editions had some strict hoops to jump through if you were to backstab or sneak attack. In 3.5e they had to be flatfooted to you somehow and within 30ft, or you flanked the target, as long as they were not immune to critical hits (like undead). Finding some way to have advantage is so easy in 5e, or at least some meat shield likes to fight face to face with the enemies. Changing from sneak attack to combo dice cause a few issues. Things would get bogged down when trying to figure out each time how many combo dice they are allowed. A competent rogue player could manage to figure out ways to one shot targets even at level 1 (true assassin style). The math problem with sneak attack is that it is weak compared to the damage fighters and mages can dish out especially from lvl 5 and on. Let Sneak attack be an all or nothing move; a rogue fights by finding the weak point and exploiting the chinks in the armor instead of just bludgeoning hoping a hit gets through. My fix for sneak attack is simple. Increase the dice by 1d6 every level instead of every odd level. This is a power bump rogues need, but is not overpowered. They will feel more powerful than the others in the first 4 levels before it flips back to magic casters and fighters. Fireball can clear rooms. Warriors can do the same damage as rogue sneak attack without special conditions. Sneak attack still needs the conditions to be met; straight up 1v1 combat would be a death sentence for a rogue. Mult-attack could be fine, but I feel that would work better with a Thug or Ninja archtype. Multi attack makes sense for the other marshals as they will just keep beating over and over again. Granting a rogue a fighting style would fit better in how they wish to be.
Biggest issue with Rogues. Abilities that make you not roll dice in a dice rolling game. I don't like expertise, because it makes rolling significantly less important (when you have a +12 on an average skill in mid game, and it only goes up, it kind of makes the d20 feel less and less important), and reliable talent literally makes it so you don't have to roll. I absolutely despise that ability. It is my least favorite ability in the game, because, though there are some bad abilities in the game, reliable talent is one of the few that just straight up goes against the concept of it actually being a game being played.
Rogues are above all tactical. Never fighting fair and always playing for keeps. Using surprise, poison, traps, and superior positioning to win. Fight smarter not harder. Master of the ambush and gorilla fighting... Roleplaying fantasy for me is a thief with a heart of gold. Misunderstood robinhood style leader that lives by his own skewed code of ethics. Honor amongst thieves with an intense loyalty to friends and no mercy for enemies.
You know, one thing I unreasonably HATE about D&D? It's always "rounded down" but normal math you round UP at .5 or above. It's always .5 in D&D, so it should round up like ALL MATH IN EXISTENCE OUTSIDE D&D lol. Edit: more relevant, I basically just agree so nothing interesting to say, basically. Except if you're PROFICIENT in something that means you're fairly practiced in it, so I DO think that Reliable Talent should apply.
Sneak attack is NOT HIGHLY situational, its a simple mechanic based on trying to make the class relatively realistic. As for getting one chance to get sneak attack off, refer to core rules for Dual weilding. they dont need extra attack for free, the POINT IS FOR IT TO BE DIFFERENT, from barbarian and Fighter
I would have the pacifist subclasses focus on the ability score than the skills themselves. 18 feels too many. Pacifist subclasses: The Intellectual (Int) The burgler (Dex) The talker (Cha) The Sage (Wis) The Athlete (Str & Con)
I'd be interested to see this type of analysis done to the Artificer. I haven't actually gotten to play D&D yet, but I've made character builds for most classes, and the Artificer is the only one that feels off. Basically in their attempt to make them the utility belt (which I love about them), they feel like they're stretched too thin to actually accomplish any one thing to a satisfying degree (especially the alchemist). I assume I'm just overthinking, and this would be less of an issue when actually playing. I hope so, because Artificer is conceptually my favorite class. Here's a few of the more noticeable things I've seen while building my character. Fixing just one of them would likely be enough to solve the whole problem, since they'd have at least one aspect they can properly focus on and just dabble in the rest. Maybe the core class lets you choose which area to focus, so it's customizable per the utility belt vibe. 1) Spells - Want to cast a bunch of utility spells?... You're a half caster, so you're more limited on slots, and you don't get half your list till way later. In some ways I'd actually prefer getting the spells at the same point as other casters, then just not get new spells for the rest of the game. It would let me actually use these mid-level spells instead of only getting a few levels at the end with them. (Not as much of an issue for the other half-casters who can fall back on martial fighting.) 2) Cantrips - Want to be a cantrip master in place of low slots (something a utility build should feasibly be better at anyway)?... You get 2 until level 10 and can't even swap them on a rest. 3) Infusions - Want to focus on infusions (the crux of the class)?... You only get 6 total at one time (only 2-3 if you focus on the early game). And if some don't need attunement or they're given to the party, your capstone is shafted. I'd say bump it up to 10 so you can have your 6 attuned, plus 4 extra that either don't need attuned or are handed out. 4) Alchemist - Want to be an alchemist and have elixirs to pass out?... Have fun not participating as much in the fight with those used up spell slots (none of the other subclasses use slots for their features). And if that's still ok with you, they don't even scale. Or you could keep your slots and just not use this core feature of the subclass. Just a simple "Alchemy Points" per day would help this issue. Each elixer takes a point instead of a slot.
As a DM, I try to aim for simplicity. The less a player has to think about the dice roll, the more they can put their energy into roleplay and keep the story flowing. "Combo Dice" makes the player focus on the mechanics too much. Every turn will be filled with a check-list of clarifications. "Did I successfully flank?" "Am I properly hidden?" etc. As for the "Reliable Talent" feature, I just changed it to: "You can't have disadvantage on skills you have proficiency with." It is mechanically simple and thematically fits. Also, unless they tried something impossible, skills that my player had expertise in just auto-succeeded with no dice roll required. Lastly, "Sneak Attack" being difficult to trigger IS THE POINT! It's a buttload of free extra damage. There is a reason that one of the prerequisites is "have an ally stand near the target". This is a POWERFUL ability that requires the group to work together to trigger. It is too bad that this type of group-dependant ability isn't the norm in this "collaborative group game" we are playing.
I don't really like the idea of replacing sneak attack with combo dice. You mentioned one of the main issues with sneak attack is perfect scenarios need to line up in order for you to hit, which I agree with but it's not as situational as one may think. All you need is either advantage (which you can get in many ways) or an ally 5ft. from the target you are hitting. Simple. Combo dice not only forces the rogue to force weird situations in order to hit those, the damage will be even worse than sneak attack at higher levels. A level 20 rogue for example does 10d6 sneak attack. For a combo dice attack to at bare minimum *meet* that they would need 10 separate combo scenarios, which would heavily slow down combat as the max level rogue would be constantly asking the DM how many scenarios meets the condition of a combo dice. Maybe you could match that damage with the multiattack as you mentioned, but at that point I feel less like a stealthy roguish attacker that's aiming for weak spots and more so a fighter using battle tactics to hit an enemy as much as possible. Having only 1 attack is really unique to the rogue, for better or for worse, and forces the rogue to play with the strengths of their team in order to have a good chance of hitting. And if you were really afraid of not hitting, you could either use Steady Aim from Tasha's Cauldron (if your DM allows it) or use 2 daggers to raise your chances of hitting in your turn using an off-hand attack. As long as you have an ally near you, it doesn't matter which one of those 2 daggers hit, you'll get sneak attack from one of those (unless you are unlucky and miss twice) Edit: Sneak attack is also great for team composition cause it almost forces your rogue to strategize with their party in order to max out their sneak attack. This could include stuff such as the team's artificer, bard or druid casting faerie fire so the rogue always has advantage & sneak attack on creatures that failed the dex save, or the monk using stunning strike on an important enemy right before the rogue goes, or a fighter/barbarian/any other martial using their attack to push a target down prone so the rogue can get advantage stabbing them, or a cleric using guiding bolt right before the rogue goes for some very scary damage between the two of them. Combo dice wouldn't have this kind of effect since how you get them seems much more arbitrary, inconsistent and weaker at higher levels, making rogues want to use their *main* feature less and less to the point they just prioritize skills instead, which was the "skill monkey" issue you had with the original Rogue's to begin with.
You lost me when you said that Sneak attack was highly situational. You can have a ally in melee with the creature, use your cunning action to hide, use swashbuckler or inquisitive to apply it in different ways, or look to gain advantage in any other way. Rogues are not a combat class in the traditional sense, they are for players that don't mind simplicity in their class because they look for complexity in how they play. The fact that you say that rogue shouldn't be a skill monkey then proceed to list of things that rogues do that are reliant on shills in 5e shows you don't understand the class, it's use, and it's origins. With a good DM a rogue is a busy and necessary character as players look to overcome obstacles. And then with good team mates they can be a strong combatant scoring high damage.
I think most rogues use 2 weapons (or a bow) to help give them an extra attack. but because rogues have so many things to do with there bonus action already this is kind of a weak spot. I do like the idea of combo dice but it would dramatically slow down the already slow pace of combat as the rogue tries to plan how to optimize there combat.
A rogue is someone who doesn't play by the rules, in and out of combat. Mechanically I'd love to see the rogue have some skills that break some of the game rules that go for all other classes.
You should check out the Operative class from sw5e (star wars 5e). They do rogue really well! There's also tons of options to customize the rogue to how you want to play (think battle manuevers for rogue, but more rogue like)
Combo Dice, huh? Homie's been playin' WoW again. Love the class fantasy of a combat trickster, overwhelming people with anything and everything they can think of; that's always something I wanted for Rogues. Really like the stacking, situational bonuses; I'll probably use something like that for all characters, with Rogues and other specific characters gaining more specific ways to directly add the effects of their creativity to their dice rolls.
Making "Expert" It's entirely own class seems like an easy fix. The new Two-Weapon Fighting means everyone can multi attack as an action now. Prolly important to keep that in mind.
The class fantasy for a rogue is indiana jones straight up. adaptable, dexterous, who uses there mind in combat rather than relying on brute force, i really want to be able to target my enemys weakensses. Which means the study action and the elemental ability to target those weakenesses
I think the way I've handled the True Strike spell in my game could give a clue of how to improve Rogues. True Strike the spell may be cast on others and lasts until the end of your next round. It allows the target to roll an attack with Advantage, using the better die as usual, but if both dice would be hits, it becomes a Critical hit automatically. For example, say the Wizard cast True Strike on the Rogue, and the Rogue rolled a 17 and a 15. The 17 is used for the attack, as normal with Advantage, but if the 15 would have also hit, it becomes a Crit. That would be too powerful for a every round ability for the Rogue, but maybe a weaker version. If we give Rogues a 2nd attack, and we only want about 1 of them to do a full Sneak attack per round, what about something like this: Since Rogues need to have Advantage to do a sneak attack anyway, I'd say that only if both dice on the sneak attack roll would be hits, their get their full (1d6/2 lvls) Sneak attack damage. If only the higher die would hit, the attack gets a bonus of just +1 damage per sneak attack die they would normally get. So, if a 9th lvl Rogue has +5d6 Sneak attack dice, he manages to get Advantage and makes 2 attacks. If his first attack roll results in a hit and a miss, he hits and does +5 damage. On his second attack, let's say both dice would hit, so this time he rolls +5d6 damage. If this were the rule, it's tougher to get a full sneak attack, but it's also possible that a Rogue could get 2 sneak attacks on their turn (Rogues are losing the ability to sneak attack when it's not their turn, so that's ok with me). However, you'll still do some bonus damage (as if you'd rolled a 1 on each of your sneak attack dice. If you look at it that way, on a critical hit that fails to fully sneak attack, the +1's can still be doubled to +2's.)
When I heard the term “combo dice,” I actually imagined them working the opposite way you envisioned! I figured the rogue would get a pool of dice based on level, and could spend dice on their turn to do the equivalent of battlemaster maneuvers and create more powerful effects. And when they sneak attack, they add whatever number of combo dice they still have remaining.
I like your idea of adding a free attack when using their cunning action feature and I agree the class features double down a bit much on skills and I would like to see some features that provide interesting and fun decisions/options during combat or maybe some exploration utility features that allow the rogue to do something that no other class with the same modifier to their skill checks can do.
I play a. rogue so.obviously the subject is close to my heart, but you talk about rogue wielding two daggers to get another attack... but they can do that now with their bonus action. It comes at the cost of not being to disengage or hide, but you can always increase your chance to get the sneak attack in so your turn isn't "wasted". Take out the two short-swords or daggers, make your first attack and if it misses bonus with the offhand, and if it hits, you can always disengage rather than go for the tickle damage with the off-hand. The other elephant in the room is the sneak attack conditions. It becomes very dependent on how your dm rules hiding and alternate options for advantage(such as flanking). With easy advantage, rogues shine, but with a dm that makes it really hard to get advantage, and that doesn't allow the steady aim(OPTIONAL) rule, you can have rogues that feel like they're tickling enemies in combat. So you get extremely different experiences depending on the dm and their interpretation of the rules and their house rules(ours is very strict on hiding but allows for flanking which is nice for me, but in retrospect makes combat very samey, so I hope to eventually broach the subject). Also the spikey nature of sneak attack means that an arcane trickster that crits on a booming blade sneak attack, might be doing a huge amount of damage on turn and far less on the next when they can't get their sneak attack off or just miss, while a multi attacking character will have much steadier damage being more predictable for DMs. I don't really think anything needs to change, so long as DMs allow rogues to be played RAW, accepting that sometimes they will just land a massive crit(every character should have chances to shine, not just the rogue) and actually allow them opportunities to get advantage in combat with obstacles to hide behind etc.
The primary issue with a purely roleplay class that is bad at combat with no options to be useful in combat is that the player would just be better off playing a 5e rogue or Warlock who get both damage and roleplay D&D is a wargame and combat is how you are solving 99% of problems in the campaign. If you have more roleplay, mediation, talking it out encounters, good for you but realistically you are doing combat to solve issues. That being said, Combo Dice is a more complicated and less rewarding version of Battle Master fighter. If you just gave them maneuvers like BM, it would be 100% better
1) Combo dice is waaay too bulky. I'd argue it's exactly like standard sneak attack but much worse. Especially when your complaint is how many conditions you need to fill to get sneak attack. Combo dice from what you listed in this, is even MORE conditions for a fraction of the dice pool. 2) Extra Attack would be good for rogues, but keep in mind rogues are trading more attacks for a more precise and devastating blow. Steady aim perfectly demonstrates this. I think their damage is just too dependant on a singular attack and extra attack as well as OD&D's TWF does help alleviate the problem. 3) As for the hyper fixation of skills, I partially agree. But I also think reliable talent should be made accessible to every class, just reduced to a minimum of 5 instead of 10. For rogues who get expertise, they could keep it as 10 for those skills.
HOLY SHIT!!! JUST GOT ALKANDERS ALMANAC IN THE MAIL!! Just wow mate, wow... the book is so impressive and I can't imagine how much you spent on the amazing art. Truly blown away. Congrats and thanks!
Follow the PHB on the#of Sneak Attack dice. Player's choice on using 1 Die for: extra damage (ie: Sneak Attack), extra Attack, Advantage on Attack, or a combination of the 3. Must say prior to rolling Available every turn
Happy New year! Why don't simply add FEINT?: "as a Bonus action, you can get an extra attack if you didn't hit with any of your attacks this round.(As it was all a ruse, and were preparing for this extra attack.)" That would give you another opportunity for dealing damage consistently, withoug giving a "free" extra attack to the Rogue class. Also, that will even apply to the extra attack on disengage/dash actions you proposed, giving the player another chance to get one strike even when not commiting to "attack" this round. Great content. Thanks!
I was super happy when my dhampir rogue got himself lycanthrope'd, because it fixed things I was complaining he didn't have: 1. Finesse bite. (Wererat bites are Finesse weapons in all but name, therefore: SNEAK ATTACK ON THE BITE! To this day I'm salty that a dhampir can't ordinarily sneak a bite since it IS possible to bite someone by surprise) 2. A second melee attack, as long as one of them was the bite. Still, though, shouldn't need to get my poor guy cursed for things that I feel should have been inherent mechanics.
Happened on this video and subscribed just because of your mention of a pacifist class. Your idea is similar to but different from something I've wanted to make for myself, when I have an appropriate game/DM for it... Basically my idea is for a full caster with access to all the non-damage-dealing spells in the game and none of the damage-dealing spells, plus a mechanic to keep them from doing a bunch of non-magical damage. So the character wouldn't have to be a pacifist and in that case could help decently in combat. It could actually ride on a standard class, even subclass, with a god or patron supplying the rules along with the magic. (Ironically, I'd most likely play it on a druid or wizard chassis.)
I think the concept that Coach used to the class is correct, as well as the problem with the class. But I don't really vibe with the solutions presented, the "combo dice" mechanic only adds to the problem of "wait, how sneak attack work?". And it really doesn't feels well to make the rogue just the "Battlemaster" rogue type of thing. I think the concept of it has potencial but I'm not really sold with the mechanics only sounds like problems and more math/complications in my math/complications game. I would go to something to expend my sneak attack dice instead of only doing damage, kinda how the Stars druid can use their WildShape to do other stuff And of course, the extra attack it's a no brainer within the rules of 5e, but in OneD&D... Idk the rogue can absolutely go with 2 daggers and make 2 attacks without the extra attack feature (I'm thinking that you're talking about the 5e version of course, but with all the contect about OD&D I didn't know) Overall good video Coach! Really excited to see what you have! I loved the re work of the ranger
I think the rouge should get a different type of second attack or opportunity attack proficiency times per short rest you get an auto hit can't be combined with sneak attack though. Basically a Marshal's version of magic missile, has to be either with a finesse weapon or ranged weapon. There would be a damage bonus that increases with rouge lvls. 5 levels in rouge gives your new attack feature 1d4 extra , at rouge lvl 10 it's 1d8, and at rouge lvl 15 it's 2d8, and at rouge lvl 18 it's 2d12 if you have 20 lvls in rouge you 3d12.
I agree that reliable talent should only apply to proficient skills, but I think the idea of combo dice replacing sneak attacks its just an over complicated overhaul, sometimes less is more. In regards to giving rogue extra attack, it's no longer needed if you use One d&d UA of the new version light weapon feature, as with that, rogues can now duel wield and still use a their bonus action for cunning action, giving them those two attacks. What might be a good idea though is giving them a fighting style, but only the Archery, Dueling, Two-weapon fighting, superior technique, & Thrown weapon fighting options.
The rogue aren't the best at ALL skills, they're made to be the best at a SPECIFIC skill set. An investigator is the best with those kinds of checks, even above other PCs who took the Investigation proficiency. It's meant to let the rogue shine in their specific niche and not be just equal to another party member who got said skill from a random background. The bard is a good alrounder when it comes to skills while the Rogue is good for when you want to focus on one very specific skill. As for "Wrong fantasy" for one, you've limited it to video games, most of which tend not to be friendly to non-combat strategies and creative outside the box solutions to getting around things. Second Rogue also embodies archetypes non-combat and skill focused character archetypes like investigators, con artists, smugglers, etc. We need classes and sub-classes that focus on things outside of combat that come up fairly often, because otherwise that stuff just gets neglected or becomes stale, no different than removing all the combat related features from the fighting portion of DnD and expecting the players to make due with descriptions and smacking the enemy once with hardest hitting attack.
Suggestion for a video I would be interested in from your perspective as 3rd-party supplement developers for products like Alkander's Almanac: For those of us interested in developing material or adjusting homebrew rule sets for D&D, do you have any guidance for running/conducting playtests of your custom material? I'd be especially interested in your insights into the development process and "when a feature is ready for testing?" versus "when is a feature ready for implementation?"
For me it must be like this : 1/ the enemy is not alert at all and do not wait any threat + hide or invisible > advantage, +2 (or more) on touch, sneak, if it touch a second attack could be done as part of the action. 2 / The enemy know it could be attacked + hide or invisible > same but only +1 on touch. (But maybe more at higher level.) And second attack if hit. 3 / We are in combat or the enemy is really alert > same as actual + second attack if hit. 4 / We are hide and the enemy search us, it's a trap, As we are not the one that move we also get a bonus to hit as opportunity attack with +1 and the eventual second attack. 5 / We are hide and the enemy just pass > same is 1 but +1 on touch..
Gonna edit this list as the vid goes on: -rogues get their rep as skill monkey standing out from the others due to thieves' tools, which other classes CAN have but archetypically they can combine expertise and their auto success features to perform risky escapades with those tools. --also, they get an extra ability score increase which could give either 2 maxed ability scores or an extra feat on other skill monkey competitors. --also also, the arcane trickster is one of the best subclasses out there, and lends itself specifically to maximizing skill monkey potential. -sneak attack used to have that problem but after Tasha's there is *almost* no reason to not proc advantage for sneak attack. --the earlier ASI/feat comment also lends itself to maxing damage potential
I like the idea of the combo dice, but I worry it may be a bit too complicated for a player to remember/recognize all of the different conditions that would grant more dice. I agree with you though that the rogue fantasy, especially as we see it in rpg video games, deals with a character that makes many (accurate) attacks, has a high critical hit rate/critical hit multiplier bonus, and also has other tricks up their sleeve. For a class that’s so skilled, they only get one attack option with sneak attack seems out of the class fantasy. I like the idea of them being able to attack while moving into or out of combat too, even if it was more of a utility effect, like “pocket sand” blinding an enemy while disengaging or something.
Rogues already get Cunning Action which allows them to take Dodge, Disengage, Dash, ect. as a Bonus Action. That means a rogue can move up to an enemy, let's say it takes half his movement to get there, take his attack as normally, use Disengage as a bonus action and use the rest of his movement to get out of melee range. So, the very last part of your idea is already in play. As for Sneak Attack needing to have certain criteria met (i.e., you need to have a teammate within 5 feet of your target and the teammate can't be incapacitated) that makes perfect sense. If your paladin is facing off with an orc fighter, the orc is distracted which allows the rogue to "sneak" up behind him and get the drop on him. Assassin's make this even easier by just needing the criteria of the assassin not having disadvantage on their attacks to be able to utilize Sneak Attack. Personally, I think rogues are good where they're at, with maybe the added caveat of giving the Arcane Trickster more spell slots. But, since I won't ever being playing at your table, my suggestion to you would be to completely ignore everything I just said and play your table the way you want. Rule Zero exists for a reason.
Could your battlemaster fighter try to stealthily sneak in through the roof, swinging off the chandelier and jumping on the enemy’s back? Absolutely. Is there space in the game for being able to consistently execute this maneuver in a way that is consistently better than this theoretical battlemaster? Also absolutely. Second, how would you propose that combo dice work when multiclassing? Seems like it might become an “all martials should optimally dig into a rogue dip.”
Hi and this is more or less my view on rogues, also sorry for the late post. I think that the rogue is supposed to be the epitome of learn on the job and they're supposed to be the best at that. Take a look at all the archetypes and you realize that they ain't really "trained" (exception of assassin but even then they're trained in more of the art of creating openings and then exploiting their window of opportunity). So for me the skill monkey rogue kinda makes sense. Bards get expertise and JoT because the bridge the gap of book learning and experience and dedicate hours to their specific skills. Wizards study but are limited by their physical ability to perfect their spells. But rogues are the people who throw the instruction manual aside and wing it and if it works you bet we running it back, or they learn from the failure of others. Maybe im crazy but rogues are just really cunning people that do what works for them so that they get the $$ or artifact or whatever and if it works they don't fix it. Now what would be cool is maybe having rouges do a bit more in the way of during an actual fight they do things a person who has no real training would go and do stuff. Like there is a big scary warrior in my face time for pocket sand, or lamp oil to the face to blind, small smoke or noxious gas bombs in junction to their rogues cunning action. Just doing unorthodox things like using a rope to swing back and forth while fighting so they are hard to hit and hit hard. Using their surrounding like toppling crates onto someone to give themselves adv so that they can sneak attk. Idk just me thoughts. As far as combo dice idk however i think youre on to something maybe change have it to wear there is a reduced sneak but then the next attack on the enemy by an ally receives a bonus to damage or a Combo die off their saving throw (like bane effect) or even disadv on saving throws as the rogues reaction in response to their team doing something and he is essentially dogpiling the enemy just some ideas
I know I'm late to the party. But rogues in this discussion are just suffering from the old way D&D used to be played. The reason rogues have been the class with the most abilities focused on skills has been their old role as trap and puzzle specialists. When going through an old school dungeon with all the bells and whistles. None of the other classes have had abilities that help with traps. (Save the wizards wast list of spells) Rangers have the same problem with the exploration pillar of play being downplayed in recent editions. Now, since no one really uses traps or anything that were rogues speciality in older editions anymore. The rogue class has suffered.
I like the idea of Rogue getting extra d6s depending on the situation, the rogue is dealing damage with. But the problem is when rogue depends on combo dice triggers, the damage seems not reliable and not stable at all. The rogue would be dealing less damage than current version. How would you up the combo dives? Btw. Batman is all about skillmonkey. I think they just need some more utility features that are different from other expert classes.
Rangers are even worse. D&D tries to turn role-playing and flavour into game mechanics. Classes should only deal with combat and spellcasting mechanics. The ranger class should be dissected into backgrounds and feats.
I love the idea of "if you use your cunning action you can make one weapon attack as part of that action." You can attack, hide, attack now. Or attack disengage and attack again. Would be fun. I think limiting the lvl 11 ability is a good idea too. Buff rogue base abilities and nerf the skill monkey stuff.
I've revised the Rogue Class and all its subclasses, and one of the changes I made to the class was that I gave it Extra Attack at 11th level...so they still get Extra Attack, but just not at 5th level, which I think would have been a little but too powerful at early levels.
Batman isn't a skill monkey? The guy is made almost entirely of skill, and is also exceptional at fighting. I love the idea here, but Batman is quite literally the core rogue fantasy. That said combo dice concept is pretty cool, but it needs to be more interesting that just being alternate version of sneak attack, having other outlets for the combo dice would be pretty great.
Um most of the combo dice situations he mentioned are like literally the situations required for sneak atk. Tashas cauldron added steady aim the rouges utility belt, so now rouge can have it every turn on demand. I would just give rouges extra attack and maybe a choice of limited fighting styles then that's it. I do agree on the reliable talent and stroke of luck being to much lean into the skill monkey thing.
All this combo stuff betrays rogues' fantasy in my opinion, rogues standing and fighting isn't really a rogues' fantasy moving in striking and moving back is, which they have features for already rogues can already offhand a weapon they just lose a very small amount of dmg on the second hit
I feel that the concept of combo dice is a little too complex. However, I really like the idea of adding an additional attack when a rogue takes the dodge, disengage, or dash action as a bonus action. This would *have* to be done with the new light weapon rules to work. I also feel like Rogues should be able to do more with reactions, like give the help action to another player, trip an enemy, disarm an enemy, or use an object.
You started with One DnD rules in the beginning to bolster your claim of Sneak Attack only triggering on a turn but then didn’t pair that with that with new light weapon property in those same rules which allow a free extra attack with a light weapon in your other hand which would give them another chance to trigger sneak attack. You then used screen shots from DnDBeyond citing all the 5e rules for the rest of the video which is why the capstone ability didn’t line up.
I agree with the sneak attack to a degree. Change it to "pressing the advantage." At higher levels a Rogue can leverage more advantages simultaneously, but they can leverage any of them at any level. I do like the level 5 ability to bonus attack when doing a duck, dodge, dip, dive, or dodge.
My homebrew for Reliable Talent would be to have advantage on all skills you are proficient in because that means more dice and I love things that let you roll MORE DICE
Here me out; rogues should get their subclass at level 1, the reason for that is, rogue, beign a expert, should start fresh as a expert in something, assassin, scout, thief, etc. The rogue base class itself should serve as a canvas for the subclasses to thrive, adding more possibilities to existing core rogue features, like sneak attack, and cunning action. The issue sneak attack has in the game is that, since the rogue has only one attack each turn, if he misses, that was the turn, and the player will have to sit and wait until next turn to try again. Instead of a extra attack - rogues are not fighters - I believe rogues should get a feature that allows the rogue to try again with half damage - simulating that the attack did not landed where it hurts, but got close. Also, rogues should, at some point, have a feature that says that whenever he uses a bonus action to perform a cunning action, he might have a extra bonus action to perform another action in the cunning action list that is not the same as the first one - so he can dash and hide using the same bonus action, but also, maybe the assassin has coat weapon with poison as a cunning action. to simulate it's speed during turns.
Combo dice would work great in a video game where the engine calculates your dice. In tabletop it's going to be way too slow. I love the idea of getting an extra attack as a part of cunning action. It's very thematic.
I think extra attack would be extremely potent for rogues because of their easy access to athletics expertise, they could easy shove a creature prone then sneak attack or even grapple. Depending on the race they could even do this in a way that leaves them immune to that creatures atracks the bug besr. But that would be fun and would put them on par with the fighter
I'd argue instead of a flat extra attack you give them a sneak attack variation having it be on a reaction. This way they could do two attacks like in your system or they could attack not in their turn whenever a target is on a weak position. I wouldn't allow them to stop movement with this as that steps on the ready action but they could reload a crossbow then fire it when the bugbear moved up to attack. Essentially I like the idea of having rogues have a ton of reaction uses but then need to think on their feet on how to use the one reaction with higher level gains giving means to get the reaction back should luck be on their side like gaining it back.
The rogue out here being better than the cleric in religion, better than the the wizard/warlock/sorcerer in arcana and history, better than the ranger and Druid in nature and animal handling, the barbarian and fighter for athletics and grapple checks.
You went from rambling about cool ideas, to randomly inviting people to work for you. That was a very strange transition, and a very sudden ending to your video as well.
1. I agree that Rogues should get an extra attack, but much later than other martial classes. Maybe 9-14. 2. I too believe combo dice would be bulky and slow down the game. But you’re the designer, DC, make it flow like you do with your other designs. I trust your judgment. 3. I think it’s great you’re opening up the team to more ideas through team building. I don’t have that skill set, but you may want to open up an email line or chat specifically for game design ideas. Not everyone is as driven to make games or have their own channels, but would love a place to share ideas and riff off one another. You do that a bit now in your live chats. But this would be like a writers room for your fans. Just an idea. Wishing you the best.
Good brainstorming, but none of those ideas makes sense for me yet. You seems to be ignoring how easy rogues get advantage, I suggest you do the math if you are going this path.
Coach I just saw the video and I am about to watch, but does that mean this is a teaser to see how you gonna rework the classes ? I would love to see your approach to it
If you want rogues to feel like they are getting more attacks without feeling like a fighter, instead of extra attacks how about extra reactions and some class abilities to use those reactions, like riposte.
