I like the “flow position”. I like that it’s not a static position and seems to be the best position to stay loose and let the bike move around underneath you. I’ve ridden in the squatted attack position and my legs would be tired and it wasn’t a very active way to interact with the trail. Then I tried some hinge riding, but it didn’t always feel comfortable to have my upper body that low towards the bars. This last season I was more in the flow position, but still have some work to do with it, and I want to keep my feet more level in certain situations to keep my ability to drop my weight to pop out of bermed turns. Yeet yeet
In the first years of riding coming from BMX (I'm a cheese kid 😂) I've learned to smoothen the terrain, I've been riding full sus since 1998 and I'm still not thinking about position but more about the terrain ahead, works for me. In the winter I watch more biking content than I ride my MTB, I'm pretty much limited to trials in the warehouse but anyway love these vids 👌
Putting your torso where it's going to be must be the most brilliant piece of advice I've heard someone give so far, it really drives in what being active really means
I've been mountain biking for about 8 months now, so I'm relatively new to the game but learning quickly with how few rides I've done. I'll definitely subscribe now because you give out great advice on a consistent basis.
Awesome! It will definitely help. I know I say it’s for “intermediate” riders a lot - just know the fundamentals are the same and if you follow this channel it should give you the exact fundamentals 💥💥💥
I’ve been watching motocross and supermoto riders for a while, and those guys have shown me that most MTB riders are riding too wide and too low a bar, putting their weight too far forward, thinking they’re getting more traction in corners when in fact they’re pushing the contact patch harder and getting closer to understeer by doing that. Also their standard riding position is much more upright and comfortable, and they stay seated most of the time. That’s what suspension is for. Regarding the upright position, they’re not worried about aero, or looking cool either, they’re going way faster, and they have a motor punching them out of corners. The bent over position is a hangover from roadie aesthetics, IMO.
Yeah - also depends on your goal. I admit I 100% care more about if it feels / looks cool than being fast. Straight up. I was mega stoked when a switchback I rode/filmed kinda looked like Brandon Semenuk. My torso was too high, back tire skidded, wasn't ultra fast. But man, it was FUN. Have you ever ridden moto? I haven't done much because it's actually kinda scary lol! Well...I just don't have time for another hobby I have kids I want to spend time with :)
moto is very different. Acceleration brutally pulls your torso back, so you need to compensate it most of the time. And track is usually horizontal. On downhill MTB strongest force is braking, that pulls you forward. And track is mostly descend. So body position MUST be different.
Regarding the elbows out chicken wing posture , i actually love it as it brings my weight forward, i have a really bad habit of my weight going back and making my front very light . Ive being doing brazilian jiujitsu for many years already and the struggles of mtb is very much the same . Both sports are incredibly fluid with a million diffrent scenarios and situations , when we start out with bjj we really just memorize drills and triggers (if the opponent does this, you counter with this ). I feel the attack position is the same teaching style, making something that is fluid in the high levels into something static and easily understandable for the low level riders (like me ). And it takes so much practice and failures to open our eyes to the matrix That is about countless minute adjustments .
Well it sounds like your awareness is really good! IMO that’s a precursor to discovering what works for you. I too found in some conditions elbows out helps me balance perfectly- main one is right before a super steep section of trail. For me, it’s because I (and everyone else) have a tendency to not get as low as we think we are. So yeah! Same for me 🍕❤️🙏🏻
Great video - you hit the 3 fundamentals of everything. Heard a recent interview with Greg Minaar, who made the point that in 2023 he was trying to not stand up so straight, and get into a modulated 'lower' torso + hips oriented riding position over the rough spots (Like Loic Bruni does)...even the greats strive to hone their technique. And, I think that the whole 'elbows high' is trying to get people to think about getting their weight centered and ready to articulate...it's an exaggeration suggestion designed to get people to just barely do it. And, every Ryan Hughes moto posture video he is always talking about hips hips hips....that concept translates so well to mtb too - less of a 'c' shape to the back, and more of a straight back shape.
Loic Bruni is absolutely delightful to watch. Yeah I'm super stoked watching myself that my back is straight ish - it's *usually* an indication that you're supporting your torso with your core! Really good points. I havent' heard the Greg interview yet. Thanks so much for watching! Hopefully I can create a competitive channel. Anything else you're hoping to see?
Seems to be a trend forming for higher stacks, and higher riser bars (think of Dak Norton's race bike). I recently threw a 50mm riser bar on my bike (from a 25mm rise bar), as I hurt my shoulder (tore my torn rotator cuff a bit more) and wanted to take the pressure off my upper body a bit. What I discovered is that I actually like it better. It still allows me to get my hips and back engaged yet feel more relaxed in the hands too - it's quite a surprise. And, it's wonderful for jumping off stuff and drops. Not nearly as bonkers as those new hi rise reverse stems (a dead end, IMO). That said, wondering how the tall riser bar thing will evolve and it could be an interesting path to look into.... @@mountainbikeacademy
I like the “flow position”. I like that it’s not a static position and seems to be the best position to stay loose and let the bike move around underneath you. I’ve ridden in the squatted attack position and my legs would be tired and it wasn’t a very active way to interact with the trail. Then I tried some hinge riding, but it didn’t always feel comfortable to have my upper body that low towards the bars. This last season I was more in the flow position, but still have some work to do with it, and I want to keep my feet more level in certain situations to keep my ability to drop my weight to pop out of bermed turns. Yeet yeet
Yeeeet baby I bet if you try doing kinetic squats - literally just actively engage all the leg muscles you can and do the deepest squat you can (no weights) like 15 -20 seconds down, 15-20 seconds up and PAY ATTENTION to every muscle you can while doing this And make sure and keep your eyes up It's a simple drill that will WORK you and teach you where you default to. Where you default to is generally where you feel strong - and doing this can point out any compensation in your stance. Again, completely still, off the bike, zero risk.
Ok cool, I will try kinetic squats, thanks for the tip! I tried the horse stance you talked about in the body position videos to see how I could do! Yeet!
I love the video and the tips, general guidelines vs a specific position… I always looked at myself and thought my attack position sucks! Hahaha however I do feel comfortable and dynamic on the bike and therefore I am able to ride fast… there is always room for improvement, however I might not be completely wrong…
Just keep having fun lol. I forgot but the world cup rider who is 6'7" "breaks" the rule...Neko Mulally rides with his knees together...are these guys wrong? Nope. They're faster and better than me. The fundamentals are the same, sometimes how you get there is different. Thanks for hanging out! And super glad you feel comfortable and dynamic on the bike, it's fun ain't it?
What you say about being too far back and not being able to push the bike forward while descending is compounded by the internet telling people, for many years, that they need the longest reach they can get. So while descending they are already far back with their butt over the tire, and their arms are nearly straight from that extra 20mm-50mm reach that the think they need, and zero load on front tire and zero ability to turn.
You're probably right! Personally I benefitted from it big time since my arms are absurdly long...i'm 6'3" tall and my wingspan is like 6'7" lol but I still ride a size Large commencal furious...and it's still a bit long
@@mountainbikeacademy Hi I also have commencal fsr with 470mm reach 6.1" tall,long arms,is Your reach 490? I got frustrated before when always in low attack pos,elbows out,like I will be catapulted otb,thought that I need moore reach.😢
Great video. I thought your last video (back pain) was the most straight to the point of your recent series, and I just started incorporating the horse stance. Couple of things: -I definitely feel like you're talking directly to me when you're saying TVA weakness is the problem - this is a big realization for me. I've stayed very fit in the gym throughout the season and offseason, but there's always been something that's weighing me down in the back half of long enduro race stages - and it's that lower back pain that creates a negative feedback loop elsewhere, particularly in my grip (with grip pain). I'm finishing kinda middle/back of the pack in Amateur category and I am really desperate to move up! -in all honesty, I haven't felt my core engaged too much in the horse stance. It's been mostly in my quads. Is this a form thing? Maybe a longer video on horse stance for MTB? -I was recommended a video directly after watching that back pain one by a channel I've watched a bunch. I tried the exercises in that video and honestly, it's a ripper for the TVA (and other parts of the core?). Check it out, let us know if we should try and incorporate some of these things in the video. Check 'er out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xSEX3r_hs8o.htmlsi=OSnL2l2gQr5__wNG Keep up the good work man, these videos are getting better and better. Can't wait for the season to come around!(I'm in CO so we're snowed in for a couple more months)
Nice, your riding community is 100% the strongest one I've worked with in the past! Y'all are doing it right, been paying attention ever since Valmont park got built. About that video - judging by the "the purpose of the core muscles is really to control spine motion" statement - I'd say I have to agree. Dont' have time to watch the whole thing. There's SO much misconception about spinal/core knowledge...but it's simple. The TVA is the "first mover" in EVERY action. I learned this from Brian Aganad, a friend of mine who sells a handstand program. He goes deeper than anyone I know on it... he's a true master in his own body and also in his program. I paid him $5k just to learn the surface level stuff and it was game changer. And part of the horse stance is just more experience...John (my fitness director/co founder) is the expert but yeah, sometimes you may just not be mobile enough to optimize it. Quads will burn for a while lol.
Hi! I was struggling with lack of endurance of my lower back for many years. 4-5min descend was killing my back completely. It was fixed, after i bought a 16kg kettlebell and spent a winter, doing "300 spartans kettlebell workout" 2-3 times a week. It brutal, but helped A LOT. Next summer i became tireless beast, and withstood multiple 10min descends without a single stop. Just try it
If it hasn't been covered already, can you talk about the importance of thoracic mobility when looking forward down steep sections? I'm finding that when I'm rolling down a rock feature, for example, at 60 degrees I feel like I can't look up enough to see the runout beyond the compression at the bottom.
It could be that you're getting so rad you're outside the limit of normal human movement + your visor is low lol. In all seriousness ...would you maybe have a video from the trailside or a GoPro ? I'd be happy to do a little coaches corner on this... I've never been asked about this specific question before! I'm a little surprised/excited :) Thanks
@@mountainbikeacademy I think you're on the right track with the visor comment. I was just looking at the way my helmet fits and it's almost covering my eyebrows! I also wear riding glasses and there's a big gap from the top edge of the frame to the end of my FOV. So, when I look "up" my eyes aren't pointing as far up as they could since I want to see through my glasses. If I look past the top edge of the frame of the glasses, I can see the runout just fine without craning my neck.
Great presentation of 'more proper' technique. Nothing too complimicated :/ More Vids, please !!! In regards to Body Position topic - Let the bike do the work, i say : )
I get a bad neck while riding. What’s this a sign I’m doing wrong? Can you do a vid on how to tackle really big Gnarly rock gardens on a hard tail? My head bobs around like a nodding dog. I’ve only been riding 3 months. Cheers
@@mountainbikeacademy hey thanks man I really appreciate the person advice! Thank you. I sit at a desk for 12 hours a day so I’m guessing that’s not helping my neck. I’ve been hitting stainburn red trails near harrogate in the uk. Check it out in RU-vid and trail forks. It holds one of the hardest black trails in England. So yeah throwing myself in to the deep end on my roscoe 9. I’ll give them drills a go. Thanks again.
I didnt think this kind of thing existed, I've been riding street/park bmx for 25 years, often riding 2 hours each way to get to the park on a single speed bmx bike. When I started riding mountain bikes I just do what feels natural, which is changing your body position depending on immediate terrain. I didnt think there was lessons, teachers, proper technique, anything like that. Just ride your bikes and figure it out as you go, do what feels natural. I think these "lessons" telling people what they should do and then said students doing that technique all the time no matter what may be responsible for so many of the "Fails" compilations we see.
So you are saying that lessons and instructors cause people to be bad at riding? Pretty strong stance to take imo lol. I’m self taught. I get it. I built 15 foot tall tombstone style step ups and hit them, ravine hips, wall rides, and sessioned stair gaps and sucked for many years before figuring it out. IMO the BEST instructors are able to modulate their teaching style and the very definition of a good instructor is helping someone actually improve. So I think both that I would enjoy shredding with you and I also vehemently disagree Friday fails are caused by instructor curriculum. 🤷🏻♂️
Your right there are many ways to develop bad habits, whether its on your own, or by following someone else's formula when you should be feeling the terrain and adjusting to suit it. Just feels like every activity these days is being overly institutionalized distilled and packaged for sale which really rubs me the wrong way.@@mountainbikeacademy
@@augmented2nd666 fair enough. You’re invited to hang out I def don’t love over institutionalizing. My whole philosophy is teaching people how to think / feel so they CAN “self teach” themselves. You gotta realize there’s a ton of people that just need that frame shift, not a “guru” to tell them how to ride.
The part at 7:27 about still elbow push-up seems very strange. At least the video demo. I dont know if its your personal condition or you exaggerate but the the scapula winging during that is terrible.
Yeah I have horrible scapula winging rn when I do pushups like that. Kinda funny because when I ride I'm good. Thanks for paying attention to that - truth is I'd rather put out a genuine example of where I'm at and talk about it than be perfect. I'm not a world cup elite athlete. I'm a 37 year old dad who can do very above average things on a mountain bike when I get a chance to ride between regular life stuff. John (my co-founder/fitness director) has perfect pushup form I could have used his footage from our courses but I just didn't want to download it lol.
@@mountainbikeacademy No problem, I didnt mean anything wrong, just scratched my head if we should mimic that during the exercise (fixed elbow push-up) or not. Maybe when you ride, you have palms at wider position, so your back muscles handles scapulas better! I woudnt have noticed, but I recently have AC luxation surgery and went through very good rehab for athletes at local sports center - my doctor always watched me closely for this. He sayswe should avoid scapula winging. It puts shoulder + ac joint into wrong working position. If its happening we should lover the weight to keep tprogresivelly work to higher loads. It can be masively improved by training, many times its about bad movement stereotypes. Thx for your videos and expertices. Big fan of your videos that I found lately.
Nah you're al good! I didn't get any bad vibes from your message. I for sure don't wing scaps when I ride (I've verified with video, lots of it) and I agree it's 100% sub optimal. I do pushups about 3-5 different ways and that way is a full protraction/retraction...TBH I just need to work on it. You should have seen me years ago before I started all this stuff I was a pure dadbod.Thanks so much for watching and contributing! @@PetrPolach
The joke about the three women is funny, but I notice the bad advice of “elbows out! Get low! Attack position!” Being given to women in almost every coaching clinic I see. The fastest women in the world “ride like men” because they are using correct body position.
It's not bad advice per-se, but it's better than elbows in, hunched shoulders, and stiff legs. It's SUPER easy to teach, which is why it's recycled. I really can't blame anyone though - and in some cases I actually give this advice to riders! It's all about where someone is, what they need to hear to solve a problem, and making forward progress. Thanks for the comment! and yes I mean 3 women watch this channel literally - I watch my stats haha I'm actually super surprised. It was 80/20 when I ran ads to my program. Here it's no joke 99.973 men haha
The elbows out "boss" position as pushed by one, hypermobile rider is the worst advice. You missed a really important point, what type of corner is coming up next and how hard and late you brake as well as your suspension setup preference will also significantly determine your body position. You picked 2 reference riders that you mimic, one who stands very tall and runs a firm front end, the other who is lower and runs a softer setup! Trying to mimic top riders is never a good idea, you probably couldn't ride their setup, many of them have a setup that only works above a certain aggression/speed.
I model, not mimic. Modeling in 3 steps 1. Discern WHAT the principle the model is operating under 2. Determine HOW to apply that principle relative to my own conditions /setup 3. Experiment with the principle applied to find limits Also - what makes the boss position the worst advice? Could be helpful for someone that tries it. Finally, yeah I’ve ridden behind Neko and Dak and they’re faster than me. Completely irrelevant if one follows the 3 steps above. Finally, I’d argue that suspension setup is a tertiary step for an advanced rider and primary step for a beginner rider. Reason being that a beginner rider needs safety. An advanced rider already has refined their body movements for years. For advanced riders, I believe it goes like this: Anatomic movement optimization Apply that anatomic movement to the bike based on body size and optimal movement Set up suspension to allow for this optimal movement to have maximum expression of balance and control
I would consider myself an advanced rider and setup is critical. Each track, conditions, injuries, any stresses from training, even how long the uplift queue on a race weekend can impact setup, temperature, who has ridden the track or trail before you, how blown out sections are, probability of something unexpected on trail etc etc all go into making a decision on setup before and during riding. The boss position is a position of weakness and isn't dynamic, you cover it quite well, only missing out a few key points as to why it's not a good idea. Especially for those of us who have separated shoulders a number of times.
Good times - it's fun to solve the "puzzle" of what setup works for you, even if you're not an advanced rider...and if you are, it's like an infinite stream of new puzzles to solve. Love it. For separated shoulders, that's a whole new ball game - this vid was way more focused on super "basic" fundamentals and principles... Biggest thing I've found that helps is moving your shoulder gently through your entire range of motion daily. Called a CAR or Controlled Articular Rotation.
well thanks for this. I always found those three myths rather uncomfotable on the bike, so i tried to force it and it always felt so wrong. Especially the 90° arms....maybe it's because I'm a woman? IDK...anyway, thanks gives me more confidence, 'cause I always thought I am doing something wrong.
Watch me! Lots of times my elbows are kinda low and chill. Sometimes - when it’s really steep- they seem further out. Play around with it and find that strong, braced feeling! Thanks a ton for the comment I was worried it wouldn’t help anyone lol.
![3 Reasons ATTACK POSITION is a MYTH [and Drills to Do Instead]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
