“This isn’t nude, she has a hat on.” I’m done 😅. This was hard to watch knowing there are real photographers treating models this way. Great job getting your points across.
And so many aren't even "real" photographers. They are "model" photographers but only because they want lots of women around, and some women are naive enough to believe that somehow that might mean they get signed to a modeling contract somehow. I always thought this was something creepy guys did, and that Tin Box Studio recently did a video with much the same opinion of those guys. Not only creepy, but dangerous in some cases. For whatever reason, many of these "model" photographers like to take pictures of "models" on railroad tracks. The danger should be obvious, but apparently it isn't to some when they do this, and about 5 years ago a male photographer and woman were hit and killed by a freight train they somehow didn't notice despite the noise and shaking of the ground. The reason I'm putting model in quotes here is that unless the woman is being paid for her work she isn't truly a model, it's just her giving her time away so some weirdo can creep on her. We are, even post 9/11, pretty free to take photos of trains provided we aren't being total idiots about it but people like these model photographers actually on the tracks risk ruining that freedom, and we are also pretty much free to take photos anywhere in public in the USA but that is risked by inconsiderate people like Bruce Gilden and those like Trevor Wisecup that seek to emulate him. That lack of courtesy undermines the PR of photographers and could very well result in restrictive laws down the road, just because something is legal doesn't mean one should forget good manners and courtesy. Getting right up in someone's face with a camera is rude, especially when using a flash like Gilden, and frankly has no particular value as a photograph, it is basically the photographic version of a shock jock on radio. So I think, and wish, people in photography in general would think in terms of being courteous whether working with a hired model or taking landscapes or cityscapes, etc. If people don't mind their manners all of photography will be lumped in with the paparazzi and whatever comes out of that will not be a good situation for anyone.
LOL honestly the skits in this video were spot on. I feel bad for anyone who has to go through that. But I'm glad you guys were able to point these things out with a sense of humour!
'Make it posey' love it . 'Back massage' OMG i nearly chocked on my tea and toast!!! Great topic and good to see from a models point of view . Its a team that makes the picture
Alright, I know this wasn't serious "Acting" but, You two generally have me in stitches when you do bits like this. That said, I worked with a young Lady in Calgary many years ago when I worked in TV who after about 10 minutes of instruction to what the "shoot" was looking for (it was actually for a montage for the station I worked for showing me videoing this young lady in one of our studios) began to "lose" articles of clothing between takes until she was about to take her shirt off. I once again explained what we were doing and that this was a Family Friendly shoot when she told me, and I'm not kidding, "but I'm always asked to go at least topless". She actually put me off photography for a couple of months. Modelling can either be the best job in the World or the absolute most shit job in the World, and it's guys like you Peter, who make the universe of photography better for everyone. I will usually sit with a Model now, especially if I don't know them and have a coffee and just talk for a few minutes. It relaxes the person, I can get a couple ideas across and as we become comfortable I am more inclined to give directions and a relaxed model is more willing to try and work with me to achieve a good picture. I have never asked for anyone to appear nude or even partially nude but have had several Ladies that I've worked with before tell me they would be okay with a nude shoot with me. I take photos because I love how light and shadow play with each other and getting an interesting image with a person who works with me, that is where I'm happy and hopefully the model is on board too. Take care - Dave
Your skit is painfully spot-on with what I hear a lot from models. That and photographers getting "handsy" which is just mind-boggling that anyone thinks that's OK. Working a lot in fine-art and figure work, I like working with professional models, where I can explain my goals for the shoot; get their feedback based on their experience, knowledge of their own bodies, and creative ideas; work out the lighting plan; and then do the shoot. Throughout, we exchange feedback and ideas or refinements that we come up with on the fly (so many times, serendipity strikes!). That makes for an incredibly productive and rewarding session.
As a newbie to the industry, I know I sucked at the first and didn't really know what to say or do. There are the common sense "don't make it sexualized" type of comments, but I didn't know how to "direct" what I wanted. But I worked with a pro model, who made me feel more comfortable, after about 15 minutes with her, I felt better. We started collaborating together rather than it just being about taking a photo. But I liked this video. Such great conversation. Thanks!!
I love your comment of collaboration. I think the photographer/model relationship should be just that, which requires the respect, communication and mutual trust demonstrated in this "3 things..."
My first shoot with a model was also with a seasoned pro and she was so good at helping me get started. It really set the tone for future shoots as I had a template of how to proceed with others down the line. To this day I have an outline in my head of how a shoot will go, but it always goes down fun tangents based on the model's personality. That's where the real creative fun is.
That awkwardness when you were bullying here by not saying anything and 'don't move or I lose my focus' got my cringing 😲Can't imagine ever treating a model that way. But good that you two show it!
This docu could easily be a sort of a comedy show; the content seems to be absurd, but so real on the other side, ...classic, reliably working mechanism for such a format.
Bec's face when Peter is acting out the different photographer styles. Haha priceless. I am ADHD so I am guilty of talking too much. I have really enjoyed the "cool cool" comments because it has helped me really focus back on fun, but direct, feedback conversation.
Love this so much......The acting! The breaking during the acting! The micro posing!! It really is performance art guys.....lol. I could not stop laughing when Bec said, 'How should my fingertips be.' The Peter & Bec theater company is the gift we did not know we needed 😂
"just model". I LOLED :). Honestly, there's a TON of great information in here. Not just "dont' do this" but real examples. This might be one of the best videos on the channel. Bravo!
Wow. What a way of getting your point across. Those reenactments didn't half make me feel extremely uncomfortable, about those other photographers, not you two. It's sad that there's people out there who are actually like that. Awesome video guys. As always. 👍🏻
Kinda cringy but a necessary watch. You never know as a photographer when mistakes like this are made, and having them laid out is like a necessary must have check list of things to make sure things are not coming across the wrong way.
I been to a good number of shoots, helping photographers by setting up lights, swapping out lenses, wrangling costumes and the like, and many of them do the exact same thing you've touched on especially the third one! It creeps me out so I know it is next level for the models! Good talk, great lesson. Cheers!
OMG I had such a fun time watching this. I teach photographers and I’ve seen each of these and I have to step in to keep things going. The most important thing is communication and each of these shows lack of communication. You can have the best gear, perfect lighting, and a total pro talent but without a good interaction you got nothing.
Thank you for this video. As an amateur photographer, this was very insightful for me. 😮 You guy's really show us that a photo shoot is a collaborative process and communication is very important. 😊
This is a classic. The acting is great. I see so many people asked models to pose and move exactly as they want and you can see the models are uncomfortable.
I'm an artist, gay, 30 years old, my background is in cinema, and for the last 14 years, I've also worked as a fashion and fine art photographer (mostly nude) in Europe and the US. (1 and 2) I'm very particular with my vision and ideas to the point that I storyboard the fashion stories and give the models moods and actual story beats so they can follow the narrative I'm trying to create. I do give directions but the best most talented girls don't need directions they know the story where it leads and they create from there, for me is from where their collaboration comes. they often do things I hadn't thought about. I don't enjoy working with high-maintenance girls, if I did I'd work with new faces. and like I do with actors sometimes I want the models to be scared, feel awkward, or bored and I purposely will not talk with them or be weird so I can get that authentic reaction. (3) in regards to nudes. That's unprofessional af. The only photographers who show the models what they want to do during the shoot are amateurs. When the girl comes to work with me the agency has already checked their limits and showed her what I want to do, if has nudity etc. If a girl EVER says "I'm not comfortable with that" regarding something mentioned in the mood boards. I'll respectfully tell her the shoot is over. I'd call the agency and tell them why they wasted my time and ask them to send me a professional next time. It has happened to me before in a commercial shoot. (Not even nude) One of the models told me in front of the client she wasn't comfortable sitting on the lap of the male model because of some stupid reason ( she was married). I told her respectfully and privately to give the clothes to my assistant and my assistant posed as the female model. I'd never work with the girl again.
Great advice, and always good to hear the model's point of view. The issue that models tell me however is that often they have to put up with these kinds of antics because that is what is on offer from photographers e.g. over posing on kitchen counters. They don't want to pose this way, but they want to get paid.
Pretty funny, but I appreciated knowing the most important issue is not enough feedback and what kind of feedback is helpful. I've often wondered how much models care about seeing some of the images in camera. It's nice knowing how much you appreciate it because it can help you get the 'vibe' of the shoot.
When I worked with new models I would sometimes pose myself to show them what I wanted. I looked ridiculous but it helped get the point across. And it was a good laugh which helped relax the model.
This is why workshops with you and your team are so good. You teach and show, you tell the go‘s and no go‘s as well as the do‘s and don’t‘s. I can‘t make it this year, unfortunately, but yöu will see me again, probably next year🤩 take care
Great idea for discussion! During a shoot, something happened in the background, which caught me unaware, and made me laugh... But, damned if it didn't upset the model, who was just changing the pose, and freaked her out... Gone! No explanation could recover from 2 seconds of "fate"...
Superb demonstration of what not to do when potographing a model. You make it look very easy when shooting seriously. It takes such a demonstration to realise how difficult a job is to pose a model while not actually posing her, allowing the model to give you the look ou want by subtle guidance.
The 'acting' was effective, it even made me uncomfortable as a photographer. P: "But you're a model, aren't you?" [12:46] M: "Yes, but you're not a photographer, you're a GWC." #4. "Do not touch the model, unless it has been explicitly established that she is okay with it." [9:15] Remember the Platinum Rule: "Do unto others as they would have done unto them."
Sooo good. About the talking you have to get into it. In the videos Peters constant feedback might seem a bit overdone, whereas in his real live workshops this is exactly the right thing.
I was once doing a workshop where I brought a model/friend to work with. After, I’m packing gear up and a one of the aspiring photographers walks up and says, “wow, you know you’re beautiful.” She awkwardly said ‘thanks’. He stood there a moment and said it again.. “no, I mean really beautiful! You should come shoot with me.” It just blows my mind that so many men are so clueless.
The flat hands on the head was comedy gold. More of this please. That was super fun. I would add a fourth; provide a safe and professional working environment. Inviting an unfamiliar lone subject into your dungeon or grotto is gross.
To me as a portrait and artnude photographer I have amused myself watching this video. It is all so obvious and I really don’t understand those photographers that are acting like this and that they wondering why the models aren’t coming back to them. Since my start as a artnude/ portrait photographer I have never actually like this. Very well done, I am a die hard fan of your work and your way of working.
Thank you ! If this video gets one up and coming photographer to think about how they interact with their models it's a win!!! Also thanks for the laughs!!! 👍🏻
The reality is that work works well with one person can be completely wrong to someone else. I’ve never had a problem but I’ve heard lots of horror stories from photographers and even from models about certain models who are unhinged.
Absolutely a great video. Exactly what I've seen with other photographers! I am a photographer for a very long time, and only 3 years doing portraits and art nude. Almost all ladies do want to come back because I am not doing al these examples and respect them as they are.
@@PeterCoulsonPhotographer This brought a memory from a story that my dad told us about firing a photographer. He was working for a large advertising company in Chicago in the mid 1960’s on a beauty products account. The photographer that the agency was using was frequently firing models. This was causing huge time delays and upsetting the client. They were hoping to have consistency in models in each of their product lines. When my dad attended a shoot he was surprised to see the photographer was rude and berating a model. During a rant he told the model that she can’t even to hold her hands right. Your fingers look too sharp. Now I wonder how many terrific models that this abusing idiot ruined. You work with your models. They respect you as they feel that you respect them. When everybody is relaxed then good results come out of it.
Just excellent, thanks for thinking of it, because I think far too many people who think they're a photographer react in an inappropriate way, whether by gesture or word. I think a model is excellent when she's at ease, when she feels good, that's when you do quality work. Thank you Bec and Peter 🙏🙏🙏
I don't care what nobody says... as someone that's transitioned into video.. this is the most amazing shot EVER from Peter on video. The camera and tripod for depth and definition and the spacing from the background for separation oh my freakin GOSH!! I wish I had such space to do that in my lil ol 25x12 studio. Agreed, "Sexy" is the reason we as professional photographers don't get taken seriously. Stick to "cool cool cool" and things will be cool! That lazy, bland quiet photographer skit was awesome! Total point made!
This is brilliant. One of your best. Funny, awkward, but invaluable. "We're not very good actors" says Peter when they both get the giggles but, in fact, you are good enough actors to get the point across. I am a life-model at colleges and stuff and although the work I do is obviously very different, I completely identify with the lack of feedback point, and the second point too concerning over-working a pose. And yes, I liked the "This isn't nude. She has a hat on." line too. Brilliant. Well done to you both.
That bit at 3-4 minutes really caught the point...it also makes the photographer look like a real... "Pseudo professional"! This hurts... right to the fingertips... "She has a hat on..." This photographer isn't *too, too obviously* a "boob man"... Thanks Bec and Peter!
Sad to hear this have happened to people. Now these takes however are absolutely hilarious! Sometimes we can only laugh at the misery. Would be great to hear the 3 things that makes photographers uncomfortable on a shoot.
The very reason why I’ve never even attempted to do a model shoot in 10+ years I’ve been shooting, is exactly this - the potential cringe scenarios like this and the awkwardness and stress I may inadvertently cause. This was funny and helpful thank you
That was insightful. The model has to feel perfectly comfortable and safe. I loved my fashion/studio strobe course at Centre for Imaging Arts and Technologies at Dawson College in '95. The presence of one or two other models seemed to help them relax. I used a 28mm f2.8AF on my Nikon F90 using Speedotron 1200's? The model could move around and I didn't have to worry about depth of field. My teacher was very surprised when I told her I was using a wide angle. The sexuality came from the models comfort and facial expression and from two models interacting together.. We didn't dare imply we were trying to get the model to step out of their comfort zone. It was a whoop of a lot of fun. I miss that course. Another model I shot, in my bosses studio, I just threw on some rock'n roll and she just went to town in this incredible wardrobe she brought with her. Just the two of us. Again, I had my Nikkor 28mm f3.5 HC on my Nikkormat FTn. She wanted a set for a modelling agency, Kay Star. Naive and she stole my slides. This was in the early seventies.
I had just the audio of this playing on my morning drive, but it conveyed everything. Well done. Shooting portraits and fashion requires good personal skills and rapport. Peter and Bec, I do have a question (and maybe you have answered this already in another vid), but I have been curious as to what for you is paying work. Is most of your work commissioned, or are you shooting mostly what and how you want for a target market? I ask because I am curious, as someone who shoots as a side gig, why models are hired outside of contracted jobs.
Great videos, very instructional and with a bit of humour in which are clearly sensitive topics. It’s amazing but not surprising unfortunately that this still goes on.
Great stuff playing out these 3 scenarios that seem like real interactions. And I concur: using language like "cool" "that's it", maybe even "right on" come across as far more professional than "sex-yyyy". I recently viewed an interview with a top fashion model, and she also commented on how models could sense when photographers are about to violate the photoshoot playbook and go out of bounds in requesting models go nude during mid-shoot. Thanks, Peter and Bec.
you're telling me, there are literally photographers out there that do this? OMG... even I felt uncomfortable just watching the first demonstration of the no goes with Becky. You guys played on point :-)
During the final example, the conversation was one I'd hope isn't actually representative. She continually told him NO, yet he persisted with the same lines of pursuits...
@@PeterCoulsonPhotographer That is disappointing. I would not doubt that some fashion photographers go into a session with ideas that may be out of the model's comfort zone, but when "No" doesn't translate to NO, that's dangerous.
i really liked your unique approach on role playing to flesh out the key points. it was like a corporate anti-harassment training video minus the cheesy soundtrack lol. my favorite part was when you both broke - hilarious 🤣
I have taken a few workshops and the best advice I have ever gotten from models. "Don't stare at us" and "never touch us". The mood of the model always shows in the photos.
