3 Way Speaker Crossover Tested part 1 with Kasun AS-33C 

Yes, I remember working on a RIAA as well - barely;) Well, this should be fun to get back into it. Let me know if you have some ideas...

@@KissAnalog I'm sorry but you seemed to avoid my main question. Is it a cheap crossover or not. It can't be that much for the price the asking. I actually googled "what do cheap crossover's in home stereo speakers sound like. Can't find the answer. If you buy a pair of lower end speakers Will they come with lesser quality crossover's?

@@KissAnalog PS The more expensive the speakers the better quality crossover's? The cheaper the speakers the cheaper the crossover's? Oh and I wish I could have understood what you were doing. Just a lamen win it comes to electronics. It always amazed me though.

@@jefferyrichardson1348 Danny Ritchie is a long time speaker designer who owns GR Research out of Texas. He has a YT channel where he redesigns and mods existing speakers. The sad fact is, even speakers costing thousands of dollars each will have cheap internal components. And it really can degrade the sound. Worse yet, the engineering in even high end speakers is hit and miss. Richie often finds speakers with horribly designed crossovers and usually poor parts quality. He will even compare speakers costing thousands of dollars to those costing 10X less, just so you can see how spotty the engineering is. He will completely redesign the crossover while using the same drivers. He then sells the parts and instructions on how to upgrade your own. He has redesigned hundreds of speakers, and he's a master at it. I can tell just by looking at it, that this crossover has some problems. Sand cast resistors are terrible for signal degradation, and the way the coils and capacitors are arranged on the board allows them to interfere with each other, further degrading the signal. The board layout was obviously meant to minimize real estate, and that nearly always comes with sound quality compromises. Those coils are air core, which is a ton better than iron core inductors. But they're cheap, light gauge wire inductors which introduces unwanted resistance in the signal path. And not all copper is the same. Your average copper wire has more resistance than high purity copper. These little things add up. Many speaker brands don't expect you to ever look inside. So they stuff them full of the cheapest junk they can find to maximize profits. High end brands are not immune to this practice. Lately, Richie has been hammering Klipsh. Not because he hates Klipsh, but people keep sending him their Klipsh speakers because they don't like the way they sound. He has done miracles on them, but he has to question what the engineers were doing with such terrible original design.

I think the measurements were pretty good. I’ll have to test more to get a comparison. You are right, there are a lot of factors in a speaker build.

That's great - thank you! I'm glad that you are having fun;)

Thank you! That's great to hear;)

Thank you! I’ll try to get it out soon!

Great to hear! Thank you!

Thank you Bert:)

Bert van Lelieveld Yes, you are right! I should have terminated the two channels that I was not monitoring;) I can’t wait to try this! Any other ideas for a second video on this?

@@KissAnalog Would like to see how it behaves with real word drivers as a load. other than that . A phenomenal video and real enlightening as to what is really going on as opposed to a spec sheet.

should also terminat the channel you are measuring.

Thanks Ian! That's actually an interesting idea - Thanks for the input! Keep it coming;)

Thanks Steve - it is great to hear from our friends in Australia! I know you have a great RU-vid channel with Dave there - so welcome;)

Adam L Thanks Adam, let me know if there’s anything you would like to see in my part 2 of this video...

@@KissAnalog Hi Eddie, I'm just going with the flow of your videos, it will be interesting to see it loaded as Bert mentioned. I believe that it may have something to do with reflections ? ATB Adam

Adam L It very well might. It makes sense, so it will be fun and interesting to explore. I’ll post this weekend;)

@@KissAnalog Great stuff Eddie

Ron Shaw Yes - you are right!! Thank you! What else do you recommend me doing in a part 2? Thank you for that awesome feedback!!

I have found that you need to load all sections of a passive crossover to get accurate data. I was testing one with just the section I was testing terminated, and the results were different than when all sections were terminated. Really like your videos.

Ron Shaw Thanks Ron! That makes sense. I’ll try to post a follow up this weekend.

Thank you so much! I’m glad to hear from you!

Thanks Tony. Have you seen part two of this video? Here it is: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kawTphp-sTk.html

Thanks for the question! Yes, I think this crossover should be great for that application. amzn.to/3GfPsZk

Thanks for your feedback! I'm going to do more crossover tests very soon;)

You Bet! And thanks for the feedback - much appreciated!

Thank you Michael - that is great and I appreciate you! I'm really curious as to how you like them - please let us know.

Yes how did they sound and are you still using them?

Thanks for your feedback! I have a playlist of videos on speaker crossovers. Here's a link to a video that might answer your questions: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kawTphp-sTk.html

Thanks for your feedback! I did several videos on this. Here’s one with a load. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kawTphp-sTk.html

That’s great! Let us know how it works out for you:). Thanks!

thedoc298 Thank you - I appreciate you! I’m very interested in that too, so I’ll get to that soon!

Thanks for asking Dan! It's hard to say it would be optimized for that speaker, but it does have crossover frequencies that are pretty generally placed well;) What do you mean ceramic, the resistors or capacitors? Ceramic resistors are very good I think. Ceramic capacitors are very good caps as well, but poly might be better for audio applications.

thanks for infor . i really dont know much about crossover parts. i just wanted to make a crossover with the best oarts for these speakers. caps and and also the resister. From what i been told that lower end speaker put the cheapest parts for the crossover. Dayton audio are cheap ? would know anyone that can build my crossover for these HIVI i do have the the spec kit that are stock. but there a upgrade to change some spec. call a perfectionist upgrade by scott from Mideest auto club

If you send the wrong frequencies to a speaker it might also damage that speaker as well as not sound great. But speakers and crossovers are designed similar for the same type. So, a 3 way will be all designed with similar crossover - but really different compared to a 2 way.

@@KissAnalog It is confusing, I have seen people buy amplifiers with a certain frequency range and loudspeakers well above this range, for me with what little I know of the subject is a gross error, and that of damaging them, it scares a little because we must trust the crossover we buy is well designed, thanks for the explanation.

dipak bhalodia You bet! Let me know if there’s something that you would like to see.

@@KissAnalog yas crossover is use DJ SPEAKER SOUND

@@KissAnalog high pass filter or low pass filter correct?

dipak bhalodia Yes this has a high pass for tweeter, a low pass for bass, and band pass for the midrange.

Bert van Lelieveld Hi Bert, the distortion issue I think is a real thing. I’m sure the members of your Audio community would agree, and are really concerned. I’ll try to talk about that in the follow up video on this. I’m sure that this will be something that will develop over time and hopefully I can help work out these issues. This will be fun! I am a purest to a point, but I also think there are preconceived biases to the types of power supplies;) Let’s look into this and see what we find. These are the questions that I have had as well!

Sorry you didn’t like it. Can you tell me what is incorrect? As an electrical engineer with decades of experience and who was the head of an electronics program for 3 years at a community college, I’d like to continue learning. So, if you don’t mind, what did I have wrong?

@@KissAnalog yep, this is the common problem with engineers....no offense... But audio is more than math... You measure crossover without dedicated speakers... Attach them and you will see a big difference in your measurements, also you should measure interference between those parts... Also you need to measure phase difference after that cutting, because after the frequency goes down, also the phase moves away and you get low volume but still active out of phase sound from that speaker, 12 db is nothing special, its steap cutoff but there are a ton of music within that first 12db cutoff that is, at some degree out of phase, and you can hear that, and you gonna have a bad unrealistic stereo image...

Also as a engineer, you should know that capacitors and coils have their + and - , when outer level of coil is connected to the Amp - that means its grounded, and layers below are shealded from interference (positive end)... No matter if its a electrolytic cap or ceramic... Or whatever...they all have inner and outer layer.... Outerlayer is always (minus or grounded) to shield and protect the interference....

So if you have bipolar cap, still it has outer and inner layer

This is why i buy 4 channel scope and never make a video.... there will always be a some smart ass who can denny yout theory.... But mark my words, audio is something that trained ear can sense easily, and you can't explain it by electronic behavior

Thank you! I an interested in this and do have some ideas and questions that I pose to you at some point. Anything you can share is much appreciated!

@@KissAnalog cool

Fried Mule Thanks Fried Mule - that is funny! Yes, with current loading the inductance will change a little, and parasitics can change as well. I’ll explain the difference in filters from the videos before - thanks for that idea! Anything else that you might be interested in a part 2, let me know.

Great question! Is the tweeter also rated at 350 Watts? It depends on how the 3 way is spec'd but I'd think a 350 Watt crossover would work but you would have to verify what the power actually is rated at each channel output. But 350 Watts in a tweeter is nuts, or even a mid-range;)

Yes, the engineers that design and produce the low res and High res measure to be sure that they are hitting their perspective targets. It is up to us to check their measurements - and then finally listen to see if it is what we like - but measurements should always come first.

@@KissAnalog tonal qualities , harmonics , soundstaging and many other aspects must be heard and that is where quality of the parts plays huge role and it must be heard as perfect measurements can not show these qualities ....

That's a great question! I plan to do a video to show how to modify one to get what you want. I think you are fine to use a 3 way and not use the woofer - if that works for you. What crossover frequencies do you want as an ideal?

Yes Seraph, you are right:) I will post a follow up video that I think will show much better bode plots;) Thanks for this great insight. Let me now if there’s anything you would like to see covered.

@@KissAnalog for the LM3886 one, can you try replacing the LM3886TF with the LM3886T version that has a cooper backplate, so you can get better result on the thermal side, and also, can you test the capacitance multiplier power supply designed by Mr Evil, i heard it smooth-out any kind of power supply ripple to almost nothing, mrevil.asvachin.eu/amp/amp4/sub/psu2/

That’s a great idea to help the amp run cooler - thank you! I’ll check out this link - sounds interesting!

@@KissAnalog yeah, you can use this simplified schematics too if you want imgur.com/Ldgky2v

Great work my friend !!

Thanks Jim!

Thanks for the question. I'm having a hard time keeping up so I'm responding to subscribers first;) This depends on what the core is, do you mean for an air core?

Thank you! You are right that the final test has to be with the chosen speaker. But, to compare crossovers, testing with a known impedance or resistance gives a reference point. Make sense?

Great question! I'll have to spend more time on crossover designs and projects. This seems like a popular video series. Thank you!

Thanks - that's a good question! I'll have to take a look.

Thanks Ran! Yes I need to get some drivers and test them out. Glad to hear from you!

@@KissAnalog Thanks a lot, i love to see your professional way of explanation. hats off

Thanks John - that sounds like an easy fix!

Thanks Larry - yes they do have a line of these crossovers. This one handles a fair amount of power, but if you do need more power than air cores will be great for that.

I once did a design where the lights changed with the music. Maybe I should try again;) Thank you!

LOL - thanks Joey;)

Great question! It can be for either.

Ok would this be able to work for 2 18" subwoofers and 2 midrange speakers and 2 tweeters or do I have to go with 2 of them in the one speaker box

Thank you!

I don't think a spectrum offers anything better in regards to Bode Plots. A spectrum requires a tracking generator to do Bode plots too. That's where these new scopes that can do Bode plots are so awesome. Thanks - that was a great question!

Great question! Yes I think you could use this crossover to your active speaker. Are you thinking between the amp and speaker inside the cabinet?

Using higher voltage is totally ok, and sometimes better even. Types of capacitors can make a bigger difference, like poly vs aluminum.

@@KissAnalog I got all poly! I let you know if it was a success

It probably would be. Does the cerwin vega have 3 speaker drivers?

Thanks for the question, but I'm not sure exactly what you need to know... Did you get this taken care of?

Thanks for the great question! I think if your speaker is a 3 way, then this might not be a bad product to try. It is true that some speakers are tuned very carefully with the crossover, where I think many are not that carefully tuned. What did you mean about the wire going through the top or bottom?

@@KissAnalog thanks so much most of the videos are way over my head but when you on the speakers subject iam all Ears. the speakers wire i figure it out but thanks. I hope i see a speaker test soon on your channel keep up the good work. dan

You could simply use 2 of the 3 outputs like maybe the tweeter and mid. But, we could see how you could use the parts of a 3 way to make a 2 way. I'll do another video to talk about this. Thanks for the feedback!

@@KissAnalog Thanks for the feedback. Waiting for the video.

Yes, I think this might be a great option. When you open your Pioneer - it would be fantastic if you could share pix of the crossover inside it;)

@@KissAnalog I did take pictures there wasn't nothing inside their only close to the tweeters in the mid-range a little cap. off the connector in the back to the subwoofer there was nothing crazy

@@KissAnalog do you remember what the Hertz was on the low side for that model

I have a 2 way version that I did several videos on. Check this out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tq66AdM5oqA.html

That's a great question Joey! I have a friend who swears by HD streamed music. I could see why it would or could sound better. As far as the Audiophile equipment goes - it really is a thing where the sky is the limit. I guess if you have the bucks - then have fun;) I hope to show the engineering side of it (or some of it) in videos to come;)

@@KissAnalog the Dolby Atmos stuff comes on bluray. It sounds incredible. I'm cool with the technical side. I was just off topic wondering Eddie haha. Thanks brother.

Thank you!

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Thank you!

LOL - thanks!

These don't look like cheap parts to me. What parts do you like?

Thanks but sorry you didn't like it.

@@KissAnalog I mean, you spent quite a lot of time and commitment, your video is full of information, but that is the only review of this product, and i did not get, do you advice to buy it, on a scale 1-10 how nice it serves it's purpose ?

Oh OK;) I do think it is made of quality parts and seems to be designed and made well. I'd recommend it as I think it is a great value for the money. I'd give it a 8-9/10 just because it doesn't have the best capacitors. Not bad, but there are better.

@@KissAnalog thanks!)

you bet!

Thanks for your feedback but can you tell me what part that you don’t like?

The coils are crosstalking , the slopes look terrible, build quality is pretty nice though......just the design is low end@@KissAnalog

Thanks! The coils are all 90 degrees from each other so how do you know that they are cross talking?

Thank you!