Man, I’m starting to enjoy just coming back every few days to read the new paragraphs of angry people who think they know better then the former streak WR holder lol
To be fair, it is technically incorrect. The intended meaning is completely true, but deliberate misinterpretation can change the meaning of the sentence
I can't wait to see the new comments saying "Well you were playing Desperado Bandit, a character that scales in damage much better than some of the others because of the guaranteed crits and stacking special damage!"
You could almost argue desperado makes it more difficult. Sure, you're overpowered as all hell by the end of the first 30 minutes, but you're just as weak as any other survivor the moment the second 30 minutes starts because your stacks don't carry over stages and they are *hard* to get rolling if you're underpowered.
@@underdoug Your rebuttal that "you could argue it makes it more difficult" and then the way you reasoned for it are contradictory. Even if it only makes stage 1 easier and then you're the same power level as any other survivor (except Poison Acrid) is still Desperado making it easier for a portion of the run and not being worse at other points. Either way, the stack resets are effectively a nonissue if you're decent at the game because every stage has enemies that let you get stacks easily enough with full looting. Taking the extra time to get those stacks and full loot actually plays entirely into the point of the video that "it's always better to full loot and time doesn't really matter," which makes the stance you propose fragile.
@@Xeconis well yeah, I acknowledged that the argument was a stretch by saying "you could *almost* argue". I did that specifically because I know the argument is weak. I wasn't really rebutting your comment as much as attempting to add to the broader discussion. Besides, I genuinely think Raydans could do this challenge with just about any survivor, but he's probably in the top 0.01% of players so, while impressive, it doesn't have as much impact in convincing people about the timer as otherwise, desperado bandit notwithstanding. Step 1, be professional player. Step 2, ignore the timer. Step 3, win. 5 mins per stage is still *way* wrong though.
I mean it’s always said in every video that tries to ‘debunk’ fulloot v time, fullloot is just gambling with the time you could’ve saved for more items that will keep you ahead of the difficulty, so the biggest thing is knowing whether you can rewardingly fullloot or not. You got a recycler? Go nuts. Get bad items and you can’t reroll em… oh well 🤷♂️
I've always decided to ignore the timer simply cause I wasn't good enough to keep up with it, but this video helped me show a friend to not worry about 5 mins per stage so neat
Even when going fast I Usually find myself exiting a stage after 7-9 minutes. 5 minutes just really isn't enough to get a good amount of loot, and the extra few minutes barely affects difficulty.
I think this is proof that time absolutely matters, it's just not the only thing that matters, and there's no such thing as a lost run until your HP hits 0 if you know how to dodge. Like, you had an unbelievably cracked recycler run with multiple charged perferators, crit synergies, and a huge proc chain, and still nearly died like 5 times because enemies just do that much damage. Managing your time well and finishing a stage fast negates some of that 1-shot danger, but it's always possible to just avoid the hits entirely, and if you can do that, the scaling doesn't mean gg.
first time i played ror2, i inevitably ran into the 5 minutes a stage strat as a beginner, tried to do it, and quickly felt that 5 minutes was too little to work with per stage, so i just completely stuck with spending more than 10-15 minutes a stage just to get items, and that worked best for me lol great vid btw, keep up the good work
When i play mul-t i can get up to 20-30 minutes In every stage cuz i love how he feels to play When i play commando i reach sky meadow in 15 to 20 minutes,becaus i love how he plays! One is tanky and gives me the feeling of an actual terminator with one goal,to destroy or if you may,terminate all life in this planet,and commando is just fast as fuck ninja who can shred through enemies and while not having very good mobility,after you complete godspeed Which shows you this is the best way to play the character,he gets much more mobility,you never have to stop shooting,if i try to get a long run with commando i kinda hmget bored,yet with someone like merc i get the same feeling ad mul-t,why does that happen? Idk,he is way faster paced than commando, like its not even a competition,yet i like taking it slow at times
I think that especially with the Void DLC, the fact that there are more items in general that can make your builds significantly stronger make it so much more worth it to full loot. I know that this video is meant to be an extreme version of showing that the 5 minute rule is kinda BS but it made a lot more sense when you didnt have items like delicate watches, polylutes, and shrimp that can just absolutely break a build with all your other items stacking on top of them. I havent looked at any of the spoilers for the dlc, so i have no idea what is coming along with that dlc, but i have a feeling that the game is gonna get even easier full looting once there are even more items to vary builds further. (I hope that they add more eclipse levels as the game gets easier)
The only reason the rule existed was simply someone saying what worked for them. I don’t understand why people shit talk it so much. I personally don’t have good luck so I don’t spend extra time unless I see a recycler.
I watched this video after doing an E2 run with REX and I'm completely confident that the only reason i won was because i full-looted the Sky-Meadow and got shrimp. The only other damage items I had were watches, syringes, and sticky bombs. Everything else was movement and utility, which is certainly alright... but plimp absolutely carried the damage numbers. On the other hand, I'd say that a lot of runs would still be doable full-looting and going for everything, even without the DLC items, it'd just be much more of a struggle and would require more skill and situational awareness which are something that ultimately comes with practice and time, something that a lot of people, especially beginners, won't have.
@@in00yasha The problem is that it makes the game needlessly harder. New players will give up if they're doing what they think is the best strategy and still losing most runs More subjectively, it's also way less fun to be under so much pressure to go fast
@@a_cats Well it’s a rogue-like streamers simply lose runs cause that’s the seed. But if you can’t efficiently clear a stage like a new player can’t then you could easily be adding a 15min penalty that had negative gain.
@@in00yasha I agree newer players are bad at looting efficiently and they tend to make bad choices with items so it's tempting to tell them to just rush so they don't get outscaled but that doesn't actually address the problem For them to get better at the game they really need to learn looting paths, practice circle strafing, learn items and their synergies, and so on. Caring too much about the timer will only get in the way especially if they want to learn more advanced strategies like item macro and coping teleporters in bad runs
@@raydans I don't wanna argue, but you truly must understand the influence of early recycler on quality of items. And you also must know that you may not found any equipment on even first 3 stages. This video proves nothing. Not that 30 minutes is good, not that full looting strat is good(but it is actually true). The only fact you can accumulate from the given experience - recycler and gilded coast are imbalanced. This is just fun challenge run imo, not more
I may not have found a recycler but I may havfe found a scrapper and a printer. I may not have found a recycler but I may have found good loot in the bazaar. I may not have found a recycler but I may have found a tricorn and had a good boss. This situation was one of tonnes and the common ground they all share is full looting efficiently. That's the bit. that's the purpose. Not 30 minutes a stage. Clearly that was just done to push it to the limit. But only doable by full looting because items make you stronger faster than time makes enemies stronger.
@@raydans true, but recycler is one item, one case, making all continuous of your run better, this is much stronger than visiting a pair of good printer and scrapper. Usually in the run you must make a choice of scrapping before you meet build option. You have a lot of options in game, but they are still random, so, imo, in maybe about 70% of runs this challenge would be unable to complete/too hard, so you will need to waste an hour per stage kiting a cloud of enemies through the map. But I want to mention that visiting bazaar is just really good option to make your run better. From abusing frozen void and buying some lunars to picking stage and making a chance of finding good item soup in there. Way more impact on run than choosing a strategy, I think. At least it must be equal
I feel like skill, luck, and playing solo play a big part in time's importance. Im not super skilled at the game, I've got like 70 hours in and I'm able to clear normal solo probably every 1/3 tries and I take as much time as I want to full clear, usually if i can get to stage 3 I can win. But it feels totally different when playing with friends. We take our time to full clear and try to make sure we split our items optimally but we're almost always severely underpowered by the time we make stage 4 an hour into the run and we're usually being carried by one person. When we do make it to mithrix all but the one whos been carrying for that run die before we can even finish the pillars. The damage is just too great and we get burst down. In the last week of doing 2-3 normal 3 man runs a day we've managed to win 5, 2 with the artifact of command on and every win on a loop. We've yet to successfully clear mithrix without looping at least once
It does matter, but the game doesn't become impossible. the timer is literally a difficulty meter that increases over time. Enemies scale with that meter. So the game naturally gets harder as the game goes on. Harder and more numerous enemies means that full looting becomes more difficult, especially when you're extraordinarily underpowered due to wasted time. So, yes, you COULD spend 30 minutes sitting still doing nothing, then whittle down the enemies in the next stage hopping around projectiles and running for your life the entire time...... but why? Why would you do that? I guess to make a video, that's what. XD
Clearly you shouldn't spend 30 minutes a stage. You hit the nail on the ehad with the video concept lol. But yes time does not matter if you full loot efficiently
I hope the guy at the start who asked you to "please do 5 minutes a stage" was joking. Cause bro has a lot to learn talking to a world record holder for Eclipse 8 wins in a row 💀💀💀
@@itioticginger9520 I loop sometimes, and hit all mountain shrine I see I don't think I play too quick as well, besides the first stage I usually take my time... also the only mods I run are qol ones (like auto sprint and better hud)... so.. unlucky I guess, will try to loop more and focus on stages that it shows up when I get them on bazar
Main reason he got so many Overloading Worms is because the game had a MASSIVE amount of credits to work with due to how much time he had spent on the previous stages. You wouldn't be spending as much time in regular runs, so you'd see Overloading Worms fairly rarely @@Synest2
I mean, here is the thing, I don't care if you spend more time in a stage as long as you have stuff worth doing in there. But you going to the extreme of saying time does not matter is just factually incorrect. Enemies scale with time and while I know that stage count scales them even more, the fact is in an average run you won't hit the level 99 cap for enemies, meaning the time you waste makes enemies harder. It's all about being aware of what is on the stage and wether or not it is worth the timeinvestment. Sure, it could be some good item in that one chest across the stage you didn't loot yet, or it could be worthless. It's all about making the decision on wether wasting the time for that potential item is worth it or not given the current state of your run. So claiming that it's always best to full loot and that time doesn't matter is wrong. What you are doing here is the same thing as what you're trying to fight. Woolie is the reason most people stick by 5 minutes per stage, but Woolie made it VERY CLEAR in his video that the 5 minute rule is NOT an absolute rule, but rather an average newer players should look out for. He specifically stated, whenever he talked about it, that more experienced players will be able to tell when looting further is worth the time investment and when it's not, so the 5 minutes were just meant for beginners who don't have that feel for the game yet. Yet here you are saying the total opposite but contrary to Woolie you DO present it as an ABSOLUTE. So again, I don't think looting further is necessarily bad, I think you talking in absolutes and calling it cope to say time does matter is just horrible. Because time mattering in the difficulty scaling equation of this game is an OBJECTIVE TRUTH. It is not cope as you claim. And spending a lot of time per stage and still winning doesn't prove that it doesn't matter, it just shows you're good at the game. For example, people can beat elden ring on level 1 with unupgraded weapons. Does that means levels and weapon upgrades don't matter? Obviously not. But that's the stupid logic you're using here :/ An actual PROOF that time doesn't matter would be to showcase that enemies do NOT scale with time or at least scale in a way that's negligible. But you can't showcase either because they DO scale with time. To end this on a good note, to anyone who reads through this, let me repeat, I am NOT a 5 minute purist. Judge if the loot is worth more time or not and act accordingly. Always full looting is NOT always the correct choice, and always going for 5 minutes is also NOT always the correct choice. You have to be adaptable and observe the stage properly as you go through it to make the best decision for each given stage individually.
@@raydans I love how you ignore the categorical proof I presented, the fact that time is a variable in the enemy scaling curve. It is OBJECTIVELY a case by case thing. Sometimes full looting will yield better results, often times it will not. Why? Because you have no idea what items will drop. Even if I explore and loot as efficiently as possible, the items may be trash. And even if I find something to help with damage, if I don't have any mobility yet and play a low mobility survivor, the time taken to get there and to get the exta money if needed may scale the enemies more in relation to the damage I gained, so effectively I lost damage. But I guess math is too hard for you to understand that going for a damage item can possibly LOSE you effective damage relative to enemy HP with the time scaling? Seriously, your answer just makes it clear you don't ACTUALLY want to discuss this topic or convince anyone, you made NO arguments. If you truly want to make a point about this, then why would you not want to give ARGUMENTS for why what you said is true? Again, just winning while wasting lots of time simply proves your skill at the game, it doesn't change anything about the scaling stuff. So you brought exactly zero arguments to the table, yet still act cocky and ignore all proper arguments brought forth. That's actually pretty pathetic and kindergarten levels of arguing :/
Collectively in the Eclipse 8 community alone we have about 20000 hours play time between about 6 streamers, all with the largest win streaks in a row ranging from 48 to 62 whilst rotating the survivors and they all agree time doesn't matter if you full loot efficiently. You say I'm ignoring your proof? I say you're ignoring the rest.
@@ardynizunia9709 You said that sometimes full looting is better and sometimes rushing is better because items might be trash. I'm curious what you would do in practice with this strat. If you start off with some bad items do you start rushing so the scaling isn't as bad or do you loot more to hopefully get better items? Conversely if you start with good items do you just start rushing or do you keep trying to get items because you can easily handle the scaling? To me it seems like always full looting all the time is the safest and more consistent strat. For 99% of runs the items you get are good enough to win the run so why decrease your chances by not getting every item?
@@ruddycub Basically you got it yes. It mainly depends on two things: 1: Awareness of the stage as I am traversing it. You should almost never just sit at a chest and farm money for it, as the TP event gives plenty of money. So going for the TP is most often the correct play, and while you go for it, you observe the stage as best as you can while you traverse it. That will allow you to properly estimate how much loot you left behind and how fast you can get to it, which is important in deciding wether it's worth it or not. 2: What you said about item quality affecting my decisions is absolutely correct. If I have a great run going, the chance of the time invested for another item not being worth it goes up DRAMATICALLY. Inversely, if the run is going bad and I won't be able to keep up with scaling, then going for more items becomes absolutely correct. And to answer your question at the end, because there are a lot of items in RoR2 that will not benefit you at all in a multitude of situations. It could just be bad on your specific survivor, or it could be something like an ICBM but you didn't find any ATGs the entire run, making it useless. There is a big variety of such scenarios, so by spending extra time when you're strong enough already, while you still may win the run, you are basically just wasting time and making the run a bit harder on yourself. So again, the real answer is simply to adapt. Oh and let's not forget one very real component to all of this. We have real lives too, so it would be optimal for me, as a human, to not spend unnecessary time on a run when I am strong enough to win already. Full looting just takes away time at that point. But even if we look at it just as game theory and ignore real life components, I still believe that what I explained above is optimal. Because there are a lot of items that offer less power than the enemies obtained via timescaling in the time it took you to get the item. Meaning, going for that lepton daisy and bandolier effectively made the enemies tankier than they were before. Hope that clears it up. Thanks for actually questioning things and not just being a clown that isn't interested in actual discussion like the guy who posted the video. Have a nice day mate.
i dont understand what point ur trying to make with this video. are you arguing that the enemies dont level up with time??? i mean sure if you know how to play the game, going fast isnt as important, and gettin all the loot on the stage could be more rewarding if you have the skill to back it up which is what i tend to do. i just dont get what you mean when time doesnt matter when it is factual that the games difficulty literally scales with time. (enemy spawn rate, elite spawn rate, enemy stats, etc)
He's demonstrating that it is always better to full loot. The 30 minutes per stage is an exaggeration to show that even spending lots of time on a stage won't stop a run.
@hooliganbubsy7298 I guess that's fair, but that's assuming you're very skilled and knowledgeable abt the game. I full loot stages as well but that's cuz I have lots of experience. For a new player the game will literally be easier if they keep in mind that the enemies scale with time.
@@kiren79 full loot gang. I gotta get my friend into this mindset. He still has the “5 minute rule” mindset from years ago when everyone would pretty much only use that strat, and basically every content creator was always promoting it as well. I fell into that trap for a while, but eventually I was like “fuck it, full looting is honestly more fun to me than tryna speedrun stages just for the hell of it”. Then I slowly realized how not so different (and honestly better) full looting is compared to 5 minute rule. Personally I think it doesn’t matter much which one people pick because they’re still both effective enough, but full looting is more fun imo and fulfills my loot goblin tendencies.
The one benefit about this run is that you don't have to manage your time whatsoever. You can spend as much time rolling pots as you need because you need to hit that 30 minute mark eventually
5 minutes is the *minimum* you should spend on a stage. It's almost impossible to even *search* an entire stage in as little as 5 minutes, let alone also fight things, do macro, *and* charge the teleporter. Time is probably a tertiary factor to consider when playing, not even secondary. If I'm on stage 1 and the timer is 12 minutes, I have a monster-tooth and I know there's a scrapper on the opposite side of the stage, I'm probably gonna move on without scrapping it, but that's about as far as I think time is worthy of consideration. If I end up fighting Mithrix with that monster-tooth still in my inventory because there weren't any other scrappers along the way, it's not gonna break the run.
Personally I'd still scrap it, 1-2 extra minutes will barely affect the difficulty but an extra item for printers/cauldrons could absolutely make the run way easier
@@raydans even if you have 0 speed? There are 4 more stages that might have a scrapper that isn't so far out of the way. I mean, you have 5x the hours playing that I do, so I'm hardly in a position to argue. Just seems like a waste of a couple of minutes for a single white scrap. If the whole argument is that items scale you faster than time scales the enemies (which I whole-heartedly believe), then what scaling am I getting in the 1.25 minutes it takes both ways to traverse the stage to turn a mediocre white into functionless white scrap? Cause the enemies are scaling for those 2.5 minutes. I am, unfortunately, not mechanically skilled enough to compensate that much for a significant lack of items. Once I've fully looted the stage I have to wrap it up somewhat quickly otherwise I personally end up outpaced (pot-rolling is an obvious exception), even if that means I have to miss out on micro optimisations, which I consider this scenario to be. Once I'm a couple of stages in I can typically start to focus more on optimising because by then I'm itemed up enough that I have a buffer on the scaling and (typically) any optimising I do at that point will scale me faster than the time it takes will scale enemies.
i absolutely will go for it because there is never any guarantee that you'll get another scrapper. I saw one scrapper today in 4 runs unfortuantely lol. Item macros will make you stronger than time makes enemies stronger
I have mixed feelings about Woolie, but I feel like people took the advice he gave regarding the 5 minute rule way too seriously. In the video he encourages being aware of the timer and spending time on things you think are worth it. The 5 minute rule wasn't a "rule" it was a generalization to help newer players who hadn't gotten a feel for the game, which he made clear in his video by directly stating "it should not be taken literally."
@@sagehanson190 Yeah, he always prefaces all of his advice by saying that it should be taken as a general rule of thumb to be supplemented by your own personal game sense. If people can't do so then that's on them, not Woolie.
@@sagehanson190 I would argue new players should never aim to finish a stage in 5 minutes, because it will just have them speedrun the TP instead of properly exploring. What's important is not _wasting_ time, which is a skill that mostly comes with experience
I mean, it is a good thing to keep in mind. He recommends this to newers player because generally new player don’t know what kind of item they should prioritize over time. He didn’t said it was necessary either, he was the one who spend half an hour rolling pod on stage 2 after all.
Dan, you are one of the main reasons that this game is more of a blast than a pain for me! I always hated trying to pull off 5 minutes a stage. Thanks for leaning into your opinion on time! I am a firm believer that you are right!
Would probably be pretty broken lol. Red items are usually strong yet sorta niche effects that don't stack particularly well (which is fine because normally you don't get very many), while whites tend to be straight stat boosts that therefore are great to get lots of
I'm really new to the game so I wanted to ask. Even with my so little experience and knowledge do you recommend me using this kind of strategy? (Full loot as fast as you can and then leaving). I've almost beaten Mithrix (so close 😢) and I was looking for advice. I wish you good luck and a nice day mate.
Dude. I just used this method in my last run (I started one after commenting this) and it was my first god run, I obliterated everything, obviously including Mithrix and won. I finished with 73 objects (which for me are a lot) and I'm so happy. TYSM man, you're the goat, really wish you good luck out there.
I remember playing the OG risk of rain and being confused at why the game seemed to imply the time mattered. In this kind of game, either you're snowballing so hard you'd have to be intentionally throwing to lose, or you're not snowballing, and you're boned regardless. Since the only metric of success in this game is snowballing, you MUST loot, you can't ignore chests to skip stages unless you're confident you'll kill Mithrix with whatever you have right now. It's the same in a lot of roguelikes, Binding of Isaac being a famous example for the vast gulf between "Immediately reset because I got hit once and lost my devil deal" and "I literally cannot die thanks to jank item interaction".
May I disagree? There absolutely are runs where you don't snowball at all, or are staying on par, and you are absolutely able to cope, survive and leave and stabilise later(or finish the run). I feel I actually win more of these kinds of runs, because I don't lose my concentration and feel invincible with busted items and die because of it. Loop 0-1 can kill you in a few seconds regardless of your items really, and later any build becomes invincible. And Isaac also is not really intended to be resettled on the first minor loss. Sure, you can restart, you can roll magic mush in the first room each time, but if you learn not to do it and press thru regardless, the game becomes 100x better(for me, at least). And it also has an "every issue can be solved by luck/minmax, but also by pure skill" approach.
There are in fact things you should be doing rather than Risking your Rain, such as eating food, bantering with yourself in the mirror, and roof tiling You must make haste
well i need to do this important work, and the deadline is tomorrow, so if i only spend 30 minutes to beat a full run by going 5 minutes per stage, I can get my work done on time okay but just one more round just the one, I swear
As much as the difficulty increase over time is redundant as long as you're full looting, being inefficient with your time can still make your run a lot harder than need-be.
@@raydans yeah but does it really count considering u got a churf and did bug abuse like clipping into the cave on abyssal caverns... idk maybe for u u can take more than 5 minutes but for the average player who doesn't know all this tech 5 minutes max is best
@@TheInfectous 5 mins max is ridiculously dumb imo, you can comfortably take 15 if you're full looting and you'll be fine. ALWAYS full loot, but do so as quick as you can. The rate of scaling increases with each stage so caring about your exact time on each stage is a noob mistake
You know what? You're right. Obviously time has an impact, that's why you had bosses spawning on stage 2. But that was when it was pushed to extremes. I usually do a nice mix of fast and looting, usually getting the full stage or close to it while trying to go fast. But I definitely will be leaning more into the "loot full as long as you aren't bein super slow dummy" mindset. I haven't ever played eclipse difficulty, so if it's not a problem with it, it definitely won't be a problem on monsoon. Thank you for your informative presentation, you have convinced me.
@@raydans yeah :D I was going in thinking time was way more important but clearly I was (at least somewhat) wrong. I wanted to put a reminder in the comment section of coping children that people ARE capable of being civil lol :3
Full looting efficiently and macroing items thoughtfully whilst moving at a brisk enough pace that keeps the game fun and somewhat fair with scaling is how I like to do it, I'll find every chest and use every needed scrapper and printer, but I'm still going to have fun moving at mach fuck while doing it
@@KanaMedia101 macro in this game is using certain strategies to maximize the quality of your items. the most basic example is scrapping bad items to turn them into good ones at printers and cauldrons, or using a recycler to reroll bad items. some more niche examples are waiting to open trishops in case you find an executive card on the stage, or leaving a bad red item on the ground in case you find a recycler. theres like 10 other somewhat common examples i could make, but thats the general idea
Very interesting playstyle, went a different way i thought it would. Normally you stop worring about time when the sub difficulty (enemy level) gets close to 99 since only mitrhix scales at that point, and that bossfight is skill based anyway. By playing in an extremely safe, unorthodox manner you can increase your survivability no matter what enemies come your way. (doing laps around the map with a conga line of enemies is very safe, but also wastes tons of time, so normally one rarely does it)
Make a video where you play with what is, in your opinion, the best loadout, but you can only use the 15 worst items, and then race against one of your friends who is using the worst loadout with the best items
worst loadout would win easily. in fact i guarantee you i could win the worst loadout with like 5 items. just give myself drone parts, empathy cores, safer spaces, feather, and a wungus. easy. maybe id take the other 10 items as speed and another feather.
I think another big thing I realized watching you play a lot is how different E8 is from monsoon. I've never messed with Eclipse because curse always seemed annoying as hell, but after looking into it I think the 'optimal strat' playing on monsoon is actually different from how you play. Never made an annoying comment or anything but always thought 'man this guy is looting slow' but then i caught a winstreak stream and realized you were simply BUILT DIFFERENT! Now I kinda want to work on E8 but it seems like it would take so long and the next DLC is almost here anyway so I may wait a bit.
For me it's defiantly a skill thing. The extra damage enemies gets from waiting too long seriously increases the chance of dying from a stupid mistake for me, as I am not that great at the game. I will make some stupid mistake at some point, and the extra damage enemies do will often be the difference between me surviving said stupid mistake and me dying. If you can consistently avoid making mistakes, then time ain't a big deal, but I can't. Whenever I spend too much time on stages I feel it, usually because the run dies. Not to say I leave items behind, items are far more important than time, spending a couple minutes for bands stage 2 is very often worth it for obvious reasons, but in general going for items is always better than rushing past them.
I would add a bit of nuance to the discussion by mentioning that character choice plays a significant factor in the discussion. If you play a character with a very strong & mobile base kit(Loader/Railgunner can beat the game with no items), then it makes sense to play faster so your character's strength stays relevant for a greater portion of the run. If you player weaker characters like Commando, then you need items in order to scale and win, so you must loot as much as possible.
I had the mine set that stages per time doesn't matter but items per time... Kinda matters but is also can be circumvented with not having a skill issues most of the time.
that's a pretty common thought process that got popularized a while back that is closer to how you should look at it but in the end of the day it's just all about full looting efficiently
me and my friend only do monsoon runs and we never go fast because we love getting super strong and just mindlessly slaying waves of enemies. we clear too.
30 minutes per stage is a COMPLETE non issue if you play with Sacrifice, lol. But even vanilla the scaling isn't really that crazy. I think it mostly comes down to good strategy, if you know where to be and can avoid getting hit you're probably good. The random boss spawns does make it more difficult, but they're not any worse than the teleporter usually.
@@a_cats probably. I know that prior to SotV you could sit in vields forever because time didn't scale, and so you come come out to stage 2 wildly overpowered for the rest of the run. You can probably still do something similar at Gold Coast.
@@a_cats oh right I forgot about that. It's less busted at least in a normal run because if the enemies get the wrong items you just die. That's my opinion, anyway. I'm not super great at the game.
Aside just adding to the myriad of "I got better things to do other than RoR2" comments, I will say that I'd rather feel like I'm actually getting stronger instead of having basically the same level of damage but with more VFX sprinkled on top as at the start of Stage 1. And if I *do* want to play a game where my time efficiency matters, I can boot up RoRR
I have had multiple dogshit mult t runs recently where I was coping at fifty minutes stage four yet didn’t regret playing as slow as I did because full looting and macro was the only reason I was able to pull off those runs Like people don’t realize how big of a difference one item can make to a build I was coping and then found an ignition tank for my gas I had and suddenly I was able to play stage five and finish mithrix by like two hours You and race have made me appreciate the macro and depth this game has and it has rekindled my love for the rougelike genre and I now enjoy a game as much as FTL which was my previous preferred rougelike
Besides advice from people, the biggest misunderstanding is how powerful items properly are. The difference between having even a useless item and not having one at all is tantamount. You might not think so but that trash item might be printed into something that greatly improves your build. Its abnormal compared to other roguelikes, but items are so strong in this game the timer is far outweighed by it.
I have a hard time believing this because I spent a whole hour in one stage after beating it completely, the next stage obliterated me, but I will keep an open mind
Videos like this remind me of when I just started playing and everything seemed so hard and felt like even getting through a single stage was an accomplishment. I eventually developed into more loot is better than going fast. One of the biggest things for me to get better wasn't so much trying to implement advice but to just play and get more knowledge of just...things. The game really does reward the time you put in to just learn in general, like most games sure, but the payout feels so much bigger when everything just clicks and you can feel how far you've come. Eclipse in general really pushes you to learn what playstyles suit you best and that time really isn't something you need to worry about in most cases. Side Story: My friends put way less time into this game that I did and started saying it was too easy cause I kept carrying them too hard. So I implemented a lot of the harder artifacts and they learned that the game will always find a way to beat you down if you try to find one.
The ror2 community hammering on the minute count is also why they undervalue some survivors potential too. Constantly I hear about Commando's lack of anything. "Only good in looping" they say. Thing is, even if Eclipse, the better you get at the macro-game, the better and more rewarding he becomes.
"im gunna be spending half an hour PER STAGE to show you that time DOES NOT MATTER and YOU can do the same!" one crit and spleen build, 2x cherfs, cores, 8x crowbars, recycler, 6x opals, atg, plute, 7x bands later:
I agree with Dan that time doesn't really matter in this game (in fact I basically never look a the timer in game), but this is not the run I would've used to try to prove that point. 🤣
God forbid people get lucky in risk of rain 2. Idk man I get it’s a bit lucky but it’s kinda silly to be like “you can only prove your point by getting shitty items!”
"Another Medium", fitting music for the Northern Hemisphere right now.. Especially folks in the southern US.. Also, what is it about RoR2 stream highlights that use retrogaming music (or neo-retro) that makes them so enjoyable to watch?
Yeah imo as long as your good at the game time definitely doesn’t matter at all. I kind of enjoy the challenge which is why I scale up the difficulty all the time
I used to rush through stages like crazy because I heard of some "5 minute rule". then I saw a video breaking down rushing vs full looting and why full looting is better 100% of the time and started doing it. since then I have much more success and my eclipse runs are going nicely. this video just is extra confirmation that time scaling doesn't matter when you have items lol
I got back into ror2 the last few days and i take around 10 minites per stage bc i allways full loot and do the boss at the end, sometimes i look at the time and be like "damn i wasted so much time" but usually i don't care, i could cut on time an prolly do around 7 min but why should i if i have fun full clearing every stage?
the only thing you ever need to do is full loot efficiently and you'll have the most consistent runs possible :) it helps when you have fun doing it too
I just started and my best stage is stage 4.. I started using this sherriff guy he is so good. I also spend almost 10 plus minutes per stage collecting all boxes and stuff :)
@@raydans I love the support man.. I'll make everyone proud with a god run one day, much love. I love youtubers like you that actually care about the community
