My first deer rifle was a .303 British. It's a hell of a round with tough, slick, action, that can cycle FAST. I can't tell you how many friends of mine first started their deer hunting career on that rifle. It sits in the gun safe that houses my favorite rifles. My father had a friend named Bud, who was the chief flight instructor of a now defunct Air transport company. He got it in the 1960's from a man in Britain who was issued it on WW1. Bud loved that rifle. My father got it from Bud's window when he passed. My father loved it because it was one of his best friends favorite rifles. I love it because of who's it was. I loved Bud, as a kid. He was just a great guy and is alive in my father's story's of his friend. I also love it because I've hit near everything I ever aimed at wit it. It has negligible kick and has decent balance, if a little long and barrel heavy. Just a great rifle with a great story, and with a great round (2500 fps and 2500 lb ft of energy, with factory ammo).
Hello Mate, my school bus driver was a commando during WW2 he said the 303 could travel 3 mile & Kill , many of the old scrubber runners on horse back used the 303 to blow the horns of scrubber wild bulls, yes the 303 is mostly under rated , regards Trevor.W.Bacelli. Biloela Qld Australia.
The MkVIIIz .303 round which was made to be used in Vickers machine guns, if the gun was elevated for “battery fire” like an artillery piece, was lethal out to 4.5 miles. In one action in WW1, 100 vickers guns were grouped together with spare barrels, water supplies and1 million rounds of ammunition. They were elevated to all shoot at a busy crossroads over three miles away, being heavily used by the German army. It was not until post war that they found how effective this was as trucks were being riddled, horses and men dropping wounded or dead and no sound of firing could be heard. It caused panic with German soldiers shooting at one another as they could not identify their assailants.
@@Thenotfunnyperson no it’s not go back to school and learn about Isaac Newton’s law’s and principles they been around for a very very very long time and are used quite a lot in the modern day in science and engineering
@@Thenotfunnyperson .22 probably wouldnt be able to penetrate a skull at 3 miles, and doesn't have the range anyway. The NRA tested one and found that anything over 1600 yards (less than a mile) was practically impossible without a hurricane tailwind. Yet the warning on the box suggests a mile and a half. Penetration wise? 400 metres or 1/4 mile away it's probably still capable of doing significant damage. At half a mile it can just penetrate paper so could potentially wound, but would be unable to penetrate bone. As for actually hitting anything at that range? at 600 Metres you are talking about aiming some 4 metres or 13 feet above the target to compensate for bullet drop, let alone wind.
No they weren’t he is using some cheap ass shit counterfeit rounds and before you say it says Remington on the box .303 comes in a full metal jacket in a brown ammunition box with yellow writing and is powered by cordite
@@Thenotfunnyperson 303 was around for for the boar wars as far back as 1893 I believe. So they were around for literally the end of the British Empire so all around the World.
the 303 cartridge that I used during my National (military) Service in the 1950's had a pointed tip, not a rounded one as in this video. This was obviously the military version.
The 7.62x54 is closer to the .30-40 than the .30-06. If you used a hot powder and lighter bullets(than it was designed to use) it would compete with a .308.
It was all military cartridges I used with the Enfield. I "volunteered", to work the, Buts, (manual target pulleys), on military ranges. As a sort of bonus, we where given a day's shooting with the. 303s. I've never used the Mosin, so can't be sure. But if memory serves. The. 303, jacketed round looked more like the round, WTW, used for the Mosin. I may be wrong though as it was in the, 80s I used them.
@@alanrickett2537 what do Germans have to do with a shoot out between a British and a Russian designed cartridge? You're not mistaking 7.62x54Russian with 7.92x57Mauser, are you?
You will have to start marking the 12 o'clock position on the wrapper to prevent accidental plate rotation. Reviewing the video, it looks like the 303 was closer to the edge and actually didn't travel as far as the Mosin. May have to re-shoot with FMJ ammo.
I wrapped my Enfield around a tree trunk. 3 unintentionally shot off rounds. The saftey on that relies on the wooden stock to work correctly. When the stock is worn on the inside the saftey will slip and release the firing pin. Almost got shot 3 times in one day by that thing going off by itself. It would happen when the gun was tilted downward or at at steep upward angle. When it almost took my buddies head off I bent it around a tree trunk. This has been several years ago I'm pretty sure that's how the firing pin kept dropping but I'll never own one of those guns again . As for the trusty old mosin that's a classical masterpiece haha.
Stewie Griffin instead of breaking cheap antiquities why not buy a hunting rifle designed for hunting by a good gunsmith you live in the USA there are quite a number or you can get one imported moisin and the Enfield where designed for people who are taught to hunt humans and those humans could and did shoot back unlike bambi and bugs and Donald FYI my classification with a No4 lee Enfield was 87% on the apwt and got me my marksmanship badge later in life I couldn't produce the same results with moisin the rapid fire (you tubers call it mad minute)defeated my time having to move my head out of the way of the bolt when cycling it and also slowed by reloading but my pass on the Enfield was better than granddad harry who used his from1912 to 1919 on par with my granddad tom who used his from 1910 to 1919 both served from 1914 to 1919 in France on what was called western front but not beating my father who achieved higher and served 1943 to 1952 mainly in the Far East (part of the 14th army then Malaysia before returning to Britain as a instructor) my father using a No4 my grandparents using a mk3
@@redrb26dett I absolutely love the old mosin one of my favorite rifles. I wrapped the Enfield around the tree so that it wouldn't mistakenly get shot again or someone else get hold of it and not know and get hurt from it. Some nice history about your family 👍
@@elitedavidhorne8494 Yeah. Annual camp. Circa 82. Gained my 2nd & 1st class marksman patches on this weapon. As well as a bruised shoulder. Lol. You???
@@Teknofobe I was in army cadets 88-91. It was the cadet GP (bolt action SA80) rifle mostly for us on the range. I only ever got to fire blanks through the Lee Enfield on weekend exercises. But did get my 3 star badge with a Bren. Probably the only time I fired 303 that was blank. Happy days. I've still got my brassard with my stripes, star, marksman and signals badges.
@@elitedavidhorne8494 I got to use the, Bren on the ranges at, Barrybuddon. Same. 303 round as the Enfield. The next rifle I used was the, L1A1, SLR. Absolutely fantastic weapon. No wonder it was the 2nd most prolific weapon after the, ak47. You'll know, that after a long weekend of lugging a Bren about. Ur glad to finish the EXERCISE.I was Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders. You?
@@Teknofobe If you were carrying a the Bren on exercise then you were a big lad, had stripes or both. I couldn't get near it the AIs always wanted it and i was big and had stripes. I was Queens Regiment, B company, 13th detachment, Shoreham. Didnt get to fire much else that wasn't SA80 derivative. I did get into target shooting though while I was in cadets. Moved upto full bore 7.62 bolt action and even went to Bisley for a big shoot one year. Iron sights and unsupported at 400 and 600 yards. I miss shooting and I'm looking to join a local gun club for some 22 plinking at paper. The government is planning to destroy those lovely 22 rifles we learned on in cadets. If they haven't already.
I would take the .303 Lee Enfield. More moose have been taken out of the Canadian bush with the .303 than any other caliber, and with the now defunct 215 grain loading it was often used effectively on bear. If only your Lee Enfield were in original condition with its' full wood stock I am confident that your opinion would change for it would then be the best balanced milsurp and one of the most pointable rifles on the market.
Those old mil surps are favorites of mine. Got several 6.5x55 Swedes, plus Mosins. Have Enfields too, but they're in .308. Still amazes me that 100+ year old rifles can be as accurate as those Swedes. Mine were all acquired some years ago - most cost $50-$100. Great video!
@@gradyhernandez4699 Mine are Ishapore Enfields chambered in. 308. Bought 2 of 'em for about $130 each several years ago. They shoot great & have that Enfield action toughness.
I wish I could catch these during the premiers. Been super busy lately... Great video as always, Adam. Hope you got some sleep and are headache free by now, bud
The old Brit is still taking game in Canada and other places it was milsurp. I know there are some here in the US still in use also, but a ton went to Canada. Having a 303 in the family there, back in the day, was like a 30-06 here I’m told by some Canuck buddies of mine. I know it’s anecdotal, but it makes sense to me. All those rifles coming back and selling cheap. By today’s numbers it’s pretty pedestrian , but I wouldn’t feel under gunned in the woods with one. Hell I still hunt a 30-30.
I was issued a .303 at school in England in 1959. All of us kids were in the Combined Cadet Force which operated at many schools. Today we would call that OTC - Officer Training Corps. My rifle was stamped 1911 and was in excellent condition. I also recall no round nosed ammo, only sharp pointed ammo used on those days when we were allowed to shoot at the range. Probably only fired about 100 rounds in my time at that school, always fun though!
@@stewartw.9151 In some ways, we were lucky, being the last to regularly use .303. There were mountains of it, all date stamped from the 1950s, and station armourers were glad to get rid of it. The allowance of 7.62 was 40 a year.
You can make any cartridge to ruin more or fewer paper plates depending upon what you load it with. A better comparison would be to compare interior capacity of one and then the other. You could set up a powder scale and some water and fill up each case and then dump the water into the cup of the scale. Think of all the paper plates that you would save! I can just imagine the melted butter from your baked potatoes drooling out the hole in the centre and on to your trousers at the local picnic.
I love the 303brit. Liked the vid before I even started watching. Wish you got the FMJ versions of each. Another question, is your Lee Enfield barrel the original length
Round ball type was the default for the era. The "HV" rounds appeared later with a 174 grain spitzer, similar to the Moisin Nagant and were standard WWII issue. But WW1 mostly saw use of the older, heaver round nose ammo.
@david edbrooke-coffin seriously though, read the rest of the comments and watch the video a little more closely. Pretty sure the video creator is also aware of it.
I watched this many times to verify, but did anyone else notice the possibility who tee who was mistaken about which round was which? The switch happens when he’s removing the plastic wrapping. Thanks!
Upon further review the call in the comment stands. I actually expected the mosin to hold together better. But the 303 was almost certainly a more expensive/better quality ammo. So if it's any consolation, at least who-tee was right in his initial prediction.
I watched, and while there were a couple of places where you could get confused, the location of the hits were at different distances from the edge of the plates. The .303 was somewhat closer to the center, obscured by the gathered bag opening and tie. My initial thought was that it was somehow a miss until he rotated the plates a bit. The age and make of the ammunition would have been helpful.
This test meaningless without using comparable rounds. Both should have been military spitzer bullets.The 7.62x54R generally considered to be the more powerful of the two, being somewhere between 7.62x51 and 30-06.
I have a 303 Enfield from 1922 and I've taken a white tail buck and a black bear with it. I haven't fired it in years but I still have full confidence in it.
Probably the Mosin. I have shot several whitetails with my Lee-Enfield. I really prefer the Lee-Enfield. Mine was a "Ceremonial" and is practically new. I bought (actually my Dad bought it. I was only 13.) my Lee-Enfield 60 years ago at a gun show in Columbia, South Carolina. We got an entire box of them that were all matching numbers and in pristine condition. My brother and I each got to pick one and my Dad kept one. The rest were sold to my Dad's friends. Enfields are truly excellent rifles. I stopped using it a long time ago. I also cut the stock down and "sporterized" it.
I knocked over my first red deer stag with an old ex army .303 back in the 70s, when I was just a teenager, Southern Alps, NZ. I still have a Parker Hale sporterised one. Nice old gun. Plenty of thump for anything here in NZ. Good review - thanks.
I have a 1893 Sparkebrooke Enfield 303 with the wood cut away similar to the one used. They were used by Govt. deer cullers in the '40s and '50s here in NZ, known as "Long Toms" The first time I fired it was at two 14inch very hard posts with an old army round. Went through both! What your video doesn't convey is just how loud a 303 is. One trio of cullers near Mt. Cook area shot 303 deer in one day during that era. Our mountains were over run with deer, Wapiti, Thar and Chamois in those days and those guys were paid a bounty on kills.
WTW.....yeap got my '42 mosin back in the day for $69, got a brand new SKS for $89, and then picked up a used training 22 bolt action for $40......awww those were the days!!! The ammo was dirt cheap too!!! The 7.62 X 39 FMJ and the lead tips were less than 4 bucks a box and the 7.62 X 54r hunting rounds were less than 6 bucks a box so I just bought a case of both. With a few extra boxes of hollow point for the SKS and some yellow tip and FMJ for the mosin. Sure do miss those days!!!
The date on the barrel only tells you the age of the barrel. For the age of the receiver, you have to remove the stock and look underneath the rear tang. I bought a $69 Mosin about thirty years ago, and when I checked the receiver date it was (IIRC) 1894! (Maybe 1895 or '96, definitely in the 1800s. It was a long time ago that I did that, so cut me some slack here. :)
I would love for you to shoot a deer 🦌 with the Mosin. I love mine, but also love my 303 British Lee Enfield #4 Mark 1 less kick. Love the paper test videos.
Hi, I live in South Africa and in the Second Boer War (1899-1902) the Boers (farmers) of the Boer Republics used 7X57 Mauser rifles which they bought from the Germans, who were sympathetic towards them. The British used the .303 (SMLE : Short Magazine Lee Enfield) Lee Enfield rifle. The Boers lost the war and the whole of South Africa came under British rule. Natal and the Cape Province (where I stay) were already under British rule. There are thousands of Lee Enfield rifles in my country, as they were also introduced into the S.A. army. I inherited my father-in-law's one. The Mausers aren't so plentiful, and I saw one for sale for $2500. The .303's go for much less, about $100, but getting a licence could be a problem. Just some useless information! My friend, who is a dedicated hunter, says the Mauser is a much better rifle than the Lee Enfield.
The SMLE wasn't introduced until 1904, after the Boer wars were over. You're thinking of the Magazine Lee Enfield (the "long", not the short version!).
I've shot deer with 303 British. Rifle was a very nicely sporterized Pattern 14. Ammo was Winchester Power Point 180gr. Does as good a job as any other contemporary deer round. A bonus is it is a Winchester manufactured Pattern 14 and they were considered the most accurate. When they wanted to use a Pattern 14 for sniper duty during WW1 they always sought the Winchester made rifles due to their superior accuracy. When I sighted it in at 100yds my last 2 shots were on a fresh target and the holes were touching 1/2" above the bull. Scope was a 3-9x40 Leupold. I was in my late 60's at the time and that was the best I had ever shot any centerfire in my entire life. Military trigger too.
Apt comparison: Both rounds developed 'about' the same time. The 7.62x54r mm was introduced to the world with the rifle in 1891. It was a smokeless powder cartridge from the beginning. The .303 Brit round was introduced in 1888 - as a blackpowder cartridge. The Brits then updated the cartridge to smokeless powder (the Cordite sort) in - of all years - 1891. They are both rimmed, they both were used in various machine guns and they both had an amazing service life. Both rounds are considered 'full power' rounds. Both rifles are remarkably rugged and robust. Both rifles have been used for what was needed at the time. I don't know of the 7.62x54r round used on elephant, but those who had them used them for whatever they needed. Just not that many elephant in Northern Asia. As I write this I have already read some of the comments, so I cannot predict anything. I was favoring the .303, but it may be due to my preference for it. I think it's a dandy round. Gratuitous self promotion: My one and only Mosin-Nagant is from 1915, has the Tsar's crest and was made in the United States. The Mk I SMLE was made from 1904 to 1926 (according to wiki). The 'coin' looking cap on the cocking knob shows the oldest style of the rifle. The penetration test. I just don't trust the results of one of each round to be determinative. I prefer 3 or 5 shots each with a clean target each time. Which is a truckload of paper plates and a lot of ammunition for this 'scarce' time period. Then 'average' the results for each bullet. And even then, how does each round translate into game animals from paper plates. Perhaps the one that does the best in paper plates doesn't do very well on wildebeest. It's fun, guys.
Wow! I wouldn't have thought the round nose 303 could out penetrate the pointed Mosin round. That 303 must have some pretty serious power. Another really fun video WHO_TEE!
I noticed you used a round nosed .303, I assume because it’s the preferred type for hunting, but a spitzer 7.62, maybe doing the shoot again using spitzer type ammo for both rifles might show a different result.
Yes, I expected the 7.62 to pen further due to shape but was surprised that the round nose .303 went further. I'd expect a matching .303 round to go quite a bit further through the plates.
I'd go with the enfield and reload my own ammo - as long as its not had the fore end chopped down as the design has a lightweight barrel which relies on a complicated stocking setup using springs at the midpoint and the nosecap to maintain accuracy, no longer own one or shot one in over 30 years
you must get a Lee Enfield in the original form, with the Full Wood stock. It's so much more pleasant to shoot with the extra weight. The .303 also loses a lot of velocity with shorter barrels.
First shooting rifle was the Lee Enfield 303, long. Great smooth rifle. I know u get the Enfield, short. And also, carbine. The last being issued for jungle theatres during, WW2 I believe.
@@Teknofobe The long lee's barrel was a bit excessive at 30inches, The Short magazine lee enfield SMLE had a nice size barrel, for the 303brit cartridge, at 640mm (25.3 inches). Who tee who, let us know what your lee enfield's barrel length is.
@@jonathanmitchell3733 The number 1 MK 1's were all ordered to be cut down to SMLE length in, I think, 1907. So, any Enfield made in 1912 should be standard SMLE barrel length but might have been butchered to a shorter length in the sporterizing process.
@@thevoicomp6373 Jip thats what I worry about as well. Lots of guys here in South Africa cut theirs down quite short for the Bushveld hunting at really short distances, they call it a Amajuba Slingshot.
Round nosed bullets have better sectional density and will typically penetrate better. Whereas a spire point has better ballistic coefficient and maintain better accuracy at distance.
Great video WTW. Always love the paper plate challenges. It's been a crazy busy summer, I gotta get caught back up on my YT videos. Hope ya'll are having a good summer.
I have examples of both in my accumulation of things that go bang. In the Mosin I have models 1891 Remington, 91-30, 38, 39, 44. In the Enfields I have No I MkIIIs, No 4 Mks 1&2,No 5 I even have a 22LR Trainer. My preference would be the Enfield, but I fully understand the ammo situation. I would suggest that if you have the opportunity to pickup a No 5 Jungle Carbine, that you don't pass it up, they are just the neatest little rifles also any of the 1891 Argentine mauser Carbines. Good luck on your hunt No matter which one you take. There is just something about hunting with old warriors.
Since covid hit I'm finding it harder to afford body armour. At least now I know that I can stuff 350 paper plates down my pants to go safely shopping in downtown Aden.
I shot the Lee Enfield. 303 in the cadets in the early 80s then was trained on the 7.62 SLR. What we were told as the difference was that the 7.62 was a faster lighter round. The .303 could go through a single layer of bricks at 100 yard with one shot, but it would take several rounds of the 7.62. The advantage of the SLR was that it was Semi Automatic and had a 20 round magazine. I don't know if the bullet through the wall story is true or not but your experiment proved that the .303 packed a bigger punch.
My wife bagged her first mule deer with my grandfather's British 303. She has stepped up her game now uses a BSA 7mm. She said 303 was like throwing the round at the Deer. 7MM is sending the round down range flat fast don't need to see a deer bagged with a weapon that's not great over 125 yards thanks for the video brought back memories 👍
Hey, if someone said it already but that tic made me think of your headaches! When film this one? It had the white spot on it... I'm sure some 'pro will chime in on this but want you well
300win vs 300RUM vs 338. Or 357 vs 41 vs 44. Or 556 vs 7.62x39 vs 300BLK. I have a R700 in 300RUM and a Ruger Blackhawk in 41mag. Would be awesome to see more content on these 2 calibers
303 rounded was designed to dump its energy in to whatever it hit. The Germans in WW1 hated it due to the horrible wounds it created. Later versions were re-designed for longer ranges and it was much more likely to go through and through after that. Given this I would always expect 7.62x54r to penetrate more plates. When it was the other way round I was shocked.
Здесь победил Мосин ! Просто перевернули тарелки и перепутали Мосина с 303 )) Mosin won here ! They just turned the plates over and confused Mosin with 303))
The Mosin round was spire point, whereas the British round was round point; that suggests that the .303 would also have done more damage over the path of its wound channel. It certainly shows from its deformation that it was shedding energy to a greater degree - as well as mass, as the bullet broke apart. Yet despite breaking apart, it still penetrated more than the Mosin's bullet. That's actually both surprising and counter-intuitive - especially considering that the Mosin round is a higher pressure round than the .303.
👍Liked the vid. I bought two Mosins yrs ago promoted at my gun dealer for under 5hun. One still in the box with cosmoline. Bought thousands of rounds of ammo on the cheap in spam cans. Had one Mosin bbl cut to 20in and stock changed to an ATI. Had to get a knew front sight over the muzzle. Maybe 250bucks upgrade. Love the gun, will last another hun yrs.✌🇺🇸🇺🇸
