It's time to talk about the 308 Winchester and why it's just such an outstanding cartridge. We also need to discuss its future. Chuck Hawks Cartridge Killing Power: www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_kill...
The .308 has proven itself to be a fine cartridge. Like the 30-06 and 7x57 before it I believe it will remain very popular because it's available, an extremely accurate, and power cartridge. Most cartridges chosen by military's as a service round tend to be around for a long time. It is a workhorse. If you like .30 caliber bullets the .308 can easily become a one rifle for everything.
My grandmother bought me a Post 64 model 70 308 in 1975.With it I have shot just about everything from a steenbuck to an eland in the past 48 years, all with the open sights. Never let down yet.
True, but that's mostly a logistics and caliber saturation issue. .308 had a 55 year head start, plus it is the basis for the 7.62x51 military cartridge loading.
Finally you got around to my round. The reason I liked the .308 Win (primarily for deer hunting) is from reading and understanding that the US military used it for training and sniper duties. In the 60s, Marine Scout Snipers were trained with the M40 (Remington 700 short action) in 7.62 X 15 mm NATO. the 175 grain would knock down a 200 pound target out to 60 yards. Most tactical engagements on deployment were less than 600 yards. I get that info from a few Rangers who have written about it and also, Charlie Melton, retired Navy SEAL sniper who operates a training facility near Normangee, Texas. Believe it or not, the round still has value to the military. Both versions of the MRAD include a barrel for .308 Win. One kit has .308 Win, .300 Norma, and .300 Norma Mag. The other kit has .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag. But from the Barrett site, you can get more variation. People say that .308 is fickle in the wind. I say that you could get more consistency if you hand load and you make sure all of your powder weight is consistent.
Like a good wife, sometimes she will really get on your nerves, though, especially with the 180 grain that she does not like and that she will throw all over the place in hanger...
Thanks for the video. This is what I am interested in lately. As a builder, mechanic, and jeweler, working on firearms is very satisfying. Looking forward to the videos, as the project progresses.
Nice video Tom. I really liked the segment about the killing power. It would be cool if you made a whole video on it and even brought up some numbers/data.
Very good practical caliber. I have gone all in for the 308 lately. One of my son's also has for 4 years now. He loves his Ruger MK II at the range and wants to get a hunting 308 rifle next. It's an economical round that is a pleasure to shoot. Right now you can get Norma whitetail in 308 for less than 20$ a box. That is a great price these days and you can get free shipping if you order enough. I think it's a great deer round and has been used for large game also. I would use it for elk under 400yds. Thank you for another great video. I enjoy your practical common sense.
The more I have hunted and shot the 308 the more I love it. I have handloaded and hunted with several different calibers through the years. I have found that a Winchester model 70 featherweight (FN) and Remington 150 gr corelock ammo is the prefect combo for deer for me. The rifle is a tack driver with the factory ammo and light recoil allows me to put the round where I need to. I'm hunting in the mountains of western NC and most shots or 200 yards or less. I have found this combo to very lethal on whitetails. I enjoy your videos.
Another project? You are an ambitious man. Dang, I bet it will turn out to be a real bell ringer, and I am already excited to see the groups! Merry Christmas Good Sir!
Tom...I think it was 1963...I purchased a Savage Model 99 F (Featherweight) in .308. That rifle took my first Whitetail in 1965...It became my regular whitetail rife for years...I got maybe Five bucks with it. Of all the rifles I owned it was my ONLY 308! It was a beautiful gun...It was one of the first 99's that had the comb safety. It had a steel butt plate...it was LIGHT! Frankly it was probably the rifle that had "One hell of a kick!" I bought it from "Parker Bros. Catalog" for $103 ...they were out of New York State. I consigned it along with several of my hunting rifles about 15 years ago. David ...Excellent Job! :)
Great video Mr Tom the 308 win has been a favorite of mine for a long time you are right it's Christmas if there is anything I can help with on that project let me know I've got a good selection of bullets and powder for the 308
Prefect timing, Tom! I just picked up a bicentennial m77 30-06. I still need to see if it's a shooter or not, but I'm looking forward to seeing this project.
I'm beginning a.308 project that takes me in a different direction than most people would consider going. I started reloading last year and over the summer purchased a Ruger American predator .308 with a 18 inch barrel to use as a brush gun with a 1.25x4.5x26 scope. I've bought bullets in 150 and 180 gr round nose and 150 and 170 gr flat nose. I have several powders to work with Varget, CFE 223, H380, IMR 4046, and IMR 3031. I'm fire forming my brass now and trying to decide what loads I want to try first. It's more of an experiment that will give me a chance to reload and test something a little different than everyone else is doing.
Tom I couldn’t agree with you more. I love and use my 6.5 creedmoor for whitetail deer. If I was hunting black bear or elk I would choose the 308 every time! I agree with you that frontal area on a bullet matters a lot when it comes to killing power. When it comes to explaining things and plain old common sense I think your channel is the best! Thanks for all you do Tom👍🏻
Exactly. The glorified target bullets have just about the terminal ballistics you would expect. The Federal Power Shok 140 kills deer in the 6.5x55 just fine. I doubt 100 fps faster out of a 6.5 CM would make it less effective.
One could hunt a wide variety of game with a pair of Winchester Model 70 Featherweights chambered in .308 and .243 Winchester. I opted for a single Model 70 chambered in the middle stepchild, 7mm-08 Remington, and have no regrets. To me, the 7mm-08 Remington is the older generation's 6.5mm Creedmoor: Both are outstanding intermediate cartridges. Great video, Tom!
They're both great cartridges and close enough in performance that it really just comes down to the rifle. And for me I've hunted with the 7x57, 303 British, and 308 for many years and wouldn't think twice about taking any of them into the field.
I got a 7mm-08 and my buddy got a 6.5 creedmoor, seems to me that the deer drop faster with the 7mm-08, never been impressed with the creed at real deer hunting ranges, also have the 308 which is the most accurate rifles I've ever owned .
I’ve shot 8 deer with my 6.5 creedmoor! Every deer but 1 dropped on the spot! It went 20 yards and there was blood everywhere! I have a 308 to and see no difference in the deer shot under 100 yards! Sorry! lol 😂
Had a couple, both Savages. Gave both away. Nothing really wrong with them. .308 was my first bolt action centerfire--110 pre-accutrigger in a wood stock, with free scope and case as a package deal. Marlin 336 in .30-30 was my lever. Had I known how easy it was to install a Timney trigger and replace barrels on the Savages, I may have kept at least one. LIVE AND LEARN.
Good luck with that MarkII. After you free float and bed it don’t forget that the torque specs are really high for the front action screw due to the small cast and angled recoil lug.
My son hunts with a 308. My daughter got her first buck at age 12 this year with her 308. I use 308 for hunting too. It's a great round and more available than almost all other ammunition...
I never had anything to do with the 308 cartridge I’ve herd that it was inherently accurate but as fate would have it I always seemed to find and get 30-06 rifles which is just fine with me good luck on getting the load’s worked out and making it shot good
I think the 308 is a caliber every rifleman needs to include in his/her collection. I have one made by Weatherby and it shoots great. Ammo is readily available for it too, which is a huge advantage. Effective, available, inexpensive..... all winners. MH
To me the 308 is really the first 308 round to be considered "inherently accurate". Some guys say there is no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge, I say tell that to the bench rest shooters. They moved on from the also inherently accurate 222 Remington a long time ago for a cartridge that is even more inherently accurate and never looked back. The 308 is also wonderfully efficient and versatile. I currently have 2 of them. In this time of overpriced and hard to find reloading components, I would much rather have to pay for the powder it takes to load several hundred 308 cartridges than 300 Magnums. The 308 is great round, battle and time tested and has proven itself not only on the battlefield, but on the hunting grounds and as a long range sniper rifle. Anyone would be hard pressed to come up with another single cartridge that is equally as effective and proven in so many ways.
It took me a month of tweaking loads and rifle in order to get my 308 Winchester to hit and hold 1,000 yards. I was able to hit and hold 1,000 yards out of the box with 6.5 CM. However, the 308 taught me what it’s takes to hit 1,000 yards in a way 6.5 probably couldn’t have. My advice to anyone wanting to enter the 1,000 yard game, I recommend the 308 because it is such a great teacher. Today, I prefer the 6.5 PRC for targets and 243 win for whitetails. But, my 308 always goes to the range.
Probably good advice. I’d take it a step further and suggest starting with a 223 or even 22. Much less range space needed to get the same effects as bigger rounds at 1000 yards.
@@phild9813 1000 yards is a stretch for an off-the -rack 223. Anything is possible for a skilled gunsmith. However, practice with a 22LR out to 300 yards is a great way to master the basics.
Out of all the rifles and associated cartridges I've used, 175gr SMK Federal Gold Medal Match 308Win out of a Sako TRG is my most accurate combination.
I have a m77 in 30/06. It’s a bicentennial model in perfect condition. I had one years ago and regrettably sold it. When my buddy text me and told me they had taken one in at the gun shop, I jumped all over it.
I was gifted a browning blr in 7mm 08. Old guy shot one elk with it in 81 and never used it again. Beutiful rifle, still has the old redfield "tv screen" scope! It is a joy to shoot but it has no place in the florida woods. I use it at our clubs hunt rifle competitions. Every time i take it out someone trys to buy it. Not for sale boys.
@@todsimpkins8908 i was thinking an ar 10. There are barrels available from bear creek. I have not checked to see what the optimal lengt4 is yet. 20" is doable.
Try putting a lower magnification scope on it, maybe a 1.75×6 power with a heavy duplex or post reticle. That works well in the woods and the 7mm08 is deer medicine
@@kenneth9874 too pretty for the swamp! Lol! I drug a marlin 336 in 35 rem around for decades. She shows it. I started using an ar in 6.5 grendel. Super light, stupid accurate and still drops pigs like a rock.
@@robertdinicola9225 I understand, I've got a synthetic stainless mo.7 in. 308 that I use for my walk around gun with the scope that I described and it's never let me down. Good luck this season.
308 used to be my standard. Now I have dropped down to 6.5 Grendel and up to 300Win. I can do almost everything I need with 6.5, with low recoil and great suppression. If I need bigger, 300Win is better medicine.
Perhaps with development in projectiles it will be a quick fix. In a previous video you asked are opinions on future projects. Did you see and or given and thoughts to my suggestions on the boss system for browning and winchester rifles?
As far as Arthur, I still want to read the book. However, it sounds to me he was “dissed by we know who”. I think the .308 Winchester is here for a bit longer. With the way things are going, it will be anybodys guess I suppose. I mean, how many rifles chambered in .308 Win. are the in the world? Interesting and thought provoking no doubt.
For me as long as I’m east of the Mississippi the .308 is all I need. Out West is a different ballgame. I’ve tried different calibers at one time or another and they all work for me but I always seem to circle back to the .308.
The .308 is a great round for deer out west. So is the 7mm-08, 30-30 win., 30-06 Springfield, .270 win and so many others as well. For elk so long as the person is willing to make concessions to the limitations of the round selected then calibers such as the 7mm-08 and .308 are suitable on elk.
@@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888 well I went to Colorado in 2020 to hunt 1st rifle season for elk. Took my Remington 700 Mtn rifle, 30.06. 180 grain Nosler and the rifle was shooting good. I figured that was good enough. To be honest I had never seen such open spaces in my life. The only limitation was how far you could see. I figured 300/350 yards was my limit. My bullet drop would be up there after that. The man I was hunting with was using .300 win mag. The first day he shot a 6x6 bull from on top of a ridge. Downhill maybe 30 degrees, over 400 yards. I don’t even know how you figure the bullet drop on that kind of shot. We ate back straps that night. I want to go back but I’m gonna have to settle for a Mullie. I bought 25.06 I’m gonna use for that. It shoots flat, lot flatter than my other rifles. Not much cover in Colorado, not the parts I’ve been in so I’m hoping it works out. Back home in Georgia my .308’s are all I need. Plenty of power, easy to tote, and plentiful ammo when I need some.
WOW, why don't people talk about the KP formula more, I've been looking for a conclusive means of selecting a hunting caliber : ) Already ordered a 308 Weatherby, cant wait
308 is so boring and that’s why I love it! It does everything pretty darn good. I own 3 rifles chambered in 308 and I’ll confess I’m still shopping for another 308 haha.
I have always thought the .308 was one great cartridge. Qualified "EXPERT" with my M14 at Camp Pendleton in March '66. Platoon 203. Fun times for sure lol. Looking to trade my recently purchased JC Higgins Model 51 for a wood stocked 308.
The 308 Win is one of my favorite cartridges and the only reason I'm not in the market for one right now is because I have a great shooting 30-06 that I can load down to 308 velocity if I want to.
Good video as always sir. I highly doubt we'll ever see this "Fury" in the commercial market. 80-100kpsi? When the .308 AR-10 is widely available, and inexpensive? Although the military has accepted the rifles and the round, I also doubt it'll be widely used much. Like the .270 Winchester, there are slight improvements in the competitors. But, not orders of magnitude better. The .308 and the 5.56 NATO will be around for a very, very long time. They are simply sweet-spot rounds.
The .300 Savage was almost perfect for deer and black bear in the eastern forests. It gave a good boost over the usual 30/30. When the .308 came out the death of the .300 was on the horizon. and I think the last nail in the coffin was when Savage started chambering the model 99 in .308 Winchester. There simply was no reason for the .300 savage any more. PS. try to find .300 savage at your local gun store today.
The 300 Savage is the granddaddy, of the 308, the 308 will be around as long as 30-06 will be. Hunting does not require shooting extream distances for the average hunter or target shooter. 🙂
.300 Savage opened the .308 dance 30 years before .308 got around to being. The numbers made by both the old .300 Savage and it's offspring .308, both fall into the darned useful utilitarian bracket. A hunting cartridge that's rarely ever too big for deer size game while being at least adequate for elk size game if needed. Practical with a capital P. I am learning that practical and virtuous isn't always instantly evidenced by looking at ballistic charts. I wish I had bought me a .308 years ago. Killing power is amazing equal between many cartridges in a large group. Especially if the target is sub 200 lb deer like most of us hunters pursue....
My grandfather hunted with one said it was an old man’s cartridge he hit where he aimed for us other gut shooting hunters were better served with the 270 winchester
I have an AR308 in 6.5 Creedmoor I'm thinking about changing to 308W 24” nothing is wrong with the 6.5 CM barrel just want another 308W added to my collection from two to three rifles.
I love 308 I've had people tell me about experiences they have had when they shot deer that it didn't kill but I think that was more there shot placement and bullets they were using rather than effectiveness of the 308.. 45-70 & 308 are the 2 highest power rifles I own and I don't feel the need to have anything more powerful because there both plenty effective.. if a 7.62×39 is effective you know a 308 is I think its all about shot placement because I killed a deer when I was a kid with a 22 lr and it dropped dead in it's tracks and started kicking then I walked down on it and put another 22 in it to make sure it was dead
Nachez had Federal Large Rifle primers today! I don't know if they've sold out yet or not? And they've had a good selection of pistol and small rifle primers for a couple of weeks so I figured the large rifle primers were about to start showing up.
I hunt with .308 and 30-06 and actually prefer the Sako S20 in .308 Recoil is not a factor, I simply like the .308 best whether it is for foxes or larger animals, with the right bullet..right into the ground if I do the job right.
Now that was good, and you are correct, size matters, I personally look at the 6.5 as a fad, good for targets bad for hunting. And yes, I know folks hunt with smaller cartridges all the time. But for me at ethical distances, the .308 is as small as I'm going to go. IF I was going to try to go smaller, into the 6.5 range, well it would be the 6.5x55 which has some history. Loved the video, God Bless
I'm totally with you on the 308 for myself but for the military I think the 7.62 NATO is pretty much dead. I'm with you on the 277 fury I'm not convinced at all that that's the right way to go. Looking at the current cartridges that are available today I think the best option for the military for a lightweight small cartridge to go in a lightweight rifle but offer more energy and range than the 5.56 I think the best option is the 6 mm ARC it offers substantially better ballistics than the 5.56 but it's in the same platform. All they'd have to do is rebarrel . But for myself for hunting target shooting long barrel life 308 will do just about anything that I could possibly think of doing. Thank you tell me what you think about the 6mm Arc?
Naw 556 I'd fine and so is 308 I don't think the military will switch like they say they are. The new calibers are cool and all but 556 and 308 can do pretty much anything you'd want
WDM Bell was well past his elephant sniping days when the 308 Winchester came out. He said if he was still shooting elephants for their ivory he would use the 308 with a 240 grain full metal jacket at a sedate 2300 fps. For deep penetration into elephants skull and brain.
Hard to call the 300 savage the parent case when the 308 can’t be formed from it. I know it’s listed places as the parent, might be for the T65 but not the final version.. unless they had a case stretcher. They shortened the 30’06 and thinned the walls
My friend that ownes the M77 at the end of this video also has a m99 in 308. It was his father's and after his father passed it went to his brother, and after his brother passed it went to him.
Tom, would you talk about the hunting advantage of having a 180 grains bullet for the .308 over lighter bullets. My rifle shoots better with the lighter bullet (150 grains), but can the advantage of a larger bullet, in some circumstances, outweigh (yep!) the disadvantage of a 3-inch group at 100?
controlled expansion ballistic tip boattails put the 3006 and 308 on par or better than any hunting round and they flat out work with very long barrel life, ammo availability and selection. They are surviving because they are perfection.
Imo frontal diameter metrics matter far more for older concept cup and core bullets that poke holes. Newer designs that cause extreme trauma and don’t care about exits I don’t think it stands. Looking at wound channels of 147 eldm or 140 berger hybrids vs 180 grain 30 cal core lokts and the trauma isn’t close, the explosive bullets dump huge energy and tear up the world. I’m not a 30 cal hater either, I think the 215 berger hybrid is one of the most effective on game bullets I’ve ever seen. I’ve just started to consider bullet type much more important than energy numbers