30th Anniversary Branch Davidians Memorial, April 19, 2023 

To my knowledge, the survivors in other countries have not joined the memorials through Zoom. I think there are probably different reasons why they have not. I hope they will in the future.

Thank you. We will look into it to see where that number came from. The slide show was made a long time ago. I will say it is difficult to discern what exactly happened in the shooting of Mike Schroeder, because the FBI on-site commander would not let the body be moved for at least 3 days, during which time it rained and the body was exposed to wild animals. Nor did the on-site commander permit the Texas Rangers to go to the location to examine the evidence during those days. I will also say that all of the autopsy reports have to be read critically. The autopsy report for Perry Jones said the coroner found only a gunshot wound to his mouth, but all the surviving Branch Davidians who were on the first floor and saw Perry screaming in pain, say that he was clutching his abdomen and that he had a gunshot wound there from the ATF. Child survivors also say that they heard Perry screaming, although they did not go examine his wound (to my knowledge). So there was a gunshot wound that had him screaming in pain. If Perry was only shot through the mouth, he obviously would not have been screaming. The coroner's report for Perry did not mention a wound to the abdomen. Further, the refrigerator that held the Branch Davidian remains turned off somehow, thereby preventing performance of follow-up autopsy examinations. It only adds to the consistent destruction of evidence.

Two more books that I recommend are David T. Hardy with Rex Kimball, This Is Not an Assault; and David B. Kopel and Paul H. Blackman, No More Wacos. I recommend sociologist Stuart A. Wright's edited book, Armageddon in Waco, and all of his journal articles. James D. Tabor, J. Phillip Arnold, Stuart A. Wright, and myself compiled an annotated bibliography. When we could, we attached pdfs of journal articles and book chapters and URLs for webpages. I'll locate that bibliography and see if I can attach it here.

The URL for the annotated bibliography. It needs to be updated to include the 2023 publications. jamestabor.com/bibliography-on-1993-waco-branch-davidian-controversy/

@@catherinewessinger7779 Thank you. I just went through Dave T.s account of Michaels death in his book. In the book he states that "The agents, thirteen of them, later claimed that Mike had opened fire and that they fired back." he goes on to state that Mike fought off the ATF agents for 30 minutes (I do find that hard to believe, a lone man in a relatively open field with one hand gun and I can only image a small finite number of bullets holding off 13 (or 17) fully armed ATF agents) until he was finally cut down. He also goes on to dispute the coroners report saying their were "three wounds in his skull, which must have been inflicted at close range" (Coronors reports describes 1 entry wound with 1 bullet lodged in the cranial cavity, and 1 entry and 1 exit with no bullet with no bullet (through and through shot) = 2 shots. ) but then Dave does not go on to explain why they must have been inflicted at close range. He does offer an explanation why there were no powder burns on the head shots; "probably due to his woolen cap, which later conveniently vanished and has never been found". He states that the FBI blocked the Rangers for ten days from investigating the crime scene until the rains came and washed away the footprints. But, in the very next sentence he says "Mikes body had been left hanging on a fence for four days, until the Rangers released his corpse. Coyotes had chewed off one of his legs, and I could only imaging the feast the fire ants and crows must have had during the time". A couple of things there that may be more due to Leon Whiteson (the co-author) messing up the dialogue. In one sentence the Rangers arent allowed near the crime scene for 10 days, and in the very next sentence he states the Rangers were at the crime scene four days later to remove/release the body. The writing is confusing. The Autopsy report says it was conducted on the 5th of March which is consistent with Mike being killed on the 28th of Feb, and his body being recovered on the 4th of March and an Autopsy on the next day. 4 days not ten. So if the Rangers retrieved the body, I would imaging they would have had a quick gander around the premises, never mind adding their own footprints to the crime scene. There is nothing in the Autopsy about the leg being chewed off (if it had, and coyotes had been gnawing on the corpse while it was hanging on a fence, and pulling at that leg, I would imagine the corpse would have been pulled off the fence and there would have been other bites on it or maybe not,) or fire ants having been feasting on the body. The report seems pretty complete in other respects. One other thing that niggles at me, the ATF would have been the ones to shoot Michael on the 28th. FBI didnt take over till the next day. I can imagine the ATF covering up evidence for their own mistakes, but I can't imagine the FBI compromising themselves to purposely cover up evidence to protect the ATF. Two different agencies without any real blood loyalty to each other. Granted the ATF totally screwed up and are culpable for the tragedy of errors on the 28th of Feb,. Then the FBI came in and did indeed surpass the ATF in fatal flaws leading up to April 19th. Just my own humble observations and opinions.

The book is not published yet. I have no information on when it will be published.

I am sure it was not a shift in belief and practice on the New Light teaching, but I was not there. The information for each deceased Branch Davidian in the slideshow comes from Clive Doyle's memory of them. He was the moderator at the annual memorial for about 25 years, before he became too ill to do so. So he had a long time to think about each person and what he remembered about each one. It was his recollection that when Beverly Elliot and Winston Blake came to join the group, they were engaged. That is all there is to it. I do not think that there was any change in the New Light teaching in the group.

Talty's book is good in some areas. He uses interesting sources. I will say that his book is as good as his sources. Sometimes he gets sloppy. For example, when he writes about events on March 2, he says that Clive Doyle's daughter's name is "Kathy." That is incorrect. His daughter who was inside the residence with him was Shari. You should read the book co-authored by Tabor and Gallagher. I recommend that you also read Clive Doyle's autobiography.

@@catherinewessinger7779 I noticed the sloppiness in Talty's book as well. although I did get alot out of it. I appreciated his annotations in the back of the book. At least he seemed well referenced. I did not appreciate the lack of dates or a coherent timeline. I'm noticing the same thing with Davids book. I do understand that when compiling a narrative purely from memory dates would get fuzzy, so best to be ambiguous than wrong I guess. I'm hoping Mr. Tabor's book will be a little better. I also plan on reading your books and Noesners. I understand that primary sources are colored by emotion and bias but are crucial to understanding what happened. They must all be taken with a grain of salt but there is treasure in all of them. BTW, thank you for all the good work you do in compiling these voices and resources. This is all invaluable.

@@markthatcher6844 Thank you for your kind words. I have not yet written a book solely on this case. So far I have written a number of articles and book chapters. You can find most of them on my Academia.edu page. The book by Drs. Tabor and Gallagher is excellent. Gary Noesner's book is of great interest. He has one chapter on this case, and I appreciate it. I just ordered a book by a retired FBI behavioral scientist who was involved in this case, Gregg O.McCrary, The Unknown Darkness. He had cogent things to say in the recent British documentary named Waco Untold: The British Stories. This is a good documentary. You could access it through an IP address that enables you to access television shows in the U.K. It has not yet aired in the U.S. Waco Untold, like Waco: The Rules of Engagement, leaves it to the viewer to judge who is telling the truth and who is covering up. If you have not yet discovered the RU-vid channel by David Bunds named Branch Davidian History, you should start watching his videos. I'm learning a lot from them, and they are helping me to get a coherent sense of the timeline of events in the early life of the community under Vernon Howell/David Koresh, up through 1989.

@@catherinewessinger7779 I’m sorry I meant the memoirs you edited. Clive, Bonnie’s and Sheila’s. I am interested in what they have to say. I have been following David Bunds RU-vid since they came out. His point of view, and other ex-communicado’s also have a valid point in this. I’m looking forward to seeing that Brit documentary. I imagine it will be heavy with Livingston Fagans input. I have been looking at Brit newspapers and their versions of how things went down. I saw the ‘Rules of Engagement’ and though it had a lot of good material I thought it was so far right anti-Gov towards the end it just got too unbelievable. I don’t believe the feds were shooting people trying to run out of a burning building. I don’t believe it was a concerted conspiracy to annihilate the ‘Branch Davidians’. It was blatant idiocy, hubris, and blind bullying that thought they could force them out. As for the fires, I don’t believe the Gov tried to burn them out or up. But, that was the end result and the Gov was definitely at fault. Whether the People set the fires or not. The FBI forced the situation and that’s what they got. It was stupid and cruel and it got out of hand. So..I understand when that doc was produced and I understand the mindset. I just don’t agree with that particular viewpoint.