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Also, is there any possibility that the three fingers were birthed after the Greater Will disappeared or could said birth be why? I mean, if you cheat on your cosmic baby daddy with another cosmic being, I can see it cutting you off and being spiteful to your kids too. (Not that anyone should be like that)
St Trina is (as far as I understand) supposed to be Miquella's Shadow, but he was able to discard her like he did everything else. The only way to prevent her from following him was to wound her, and since she was his shadow, she was also his link to Grace/TGW, which would be against him absolving the order entirely (as Marika did wen she changed things from the crucible to the Erdtree.)
If we take a moment to think about it, Godslayers are found: 1. in the tower where you activate Radahn's rune - Ranni's brother's 2. in the tower where you find Ranni's discarded body 3. in the castle settlement of Rykard - Ranni's brother aswell
1 guarding the GEQ sword 2 in the tower with the discarded flesh of a demigod 3 in the temple with the discarded skin of the god serpent 4 in the village where people skin others 5 in the temple with a dragon head 6 snail. I think the pattern here is that the godskins are after the flesh/skin of powerful beings or guarding/surveiling points of interest
Don’t forget Dominula. Any site of ritualistic skin sacrifice, Divine Towers, any locations of God-slaying weapons, realistically anywhere in the game that the Gods have touched, is where you’ll find the Godskins. They’re full-on professional haters 😂
My theory about the walking mausoleums is that those demigods were also shard bearers. Gideon ofnir says you're part of a select few after getting a great rune so there's more than the one's we can get, Vyke also got two great runes. And if Godrick who's a minor relative to Godfrey has a Great Rune, the stakes are not that big.
I think they are demigods that died during the night of the black knives. The game says that Godwyn was the first to die, not the only one, and the demigods in the mausoleums lost their souls. And we see more coffins like these in the land of shadows so i think the death of those demigods predates the shattering and the return of the tarnished. But i agree that there must had been more shardbearers than the ones we find. The golden lineage, for example, had more demigods than just Morgott, Mohg, Godrick, Godwyn and Godefroy (since we know Godrick was a distant relative of Godwyn, Mohg and Morgott). Maybe some demigods had children, grandchildren, etc. Maybe Marika/Godfrey relatives were considered demigods, maybe Godfrey had children before becoming elden lord and said children became demigods after the marriage... who knows
it is heavily implied that flowing water can stave off rot, it seems very likely that Rauh civilization lived in close proximity or in harmony with Rot and benefited from it with flowing water.
Is it possible that Miquella was not able to heal Malenia since she is "the host" "the chosen" one of the outer god of rot. So Miquella can heal people inflicted bei the scarlet rot, but can not heal Malenia from the outergod itself?
@SirZipper Though it is Radahns soul, it is not his will to be Miquella's consort. We know this because Malenia was sent to kill Radahn. Radahn in his prime could not be bewitched by Miquella. This is why Miquella needed Moghs body as a vessel to control with the hollow soul of Radahn.
My one theory to who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is that it's Melina. Specifically the Queen has been sealed behind Melina's closed eye very much like how the Abyssal Serpent was sealed with Merika's grace behind Mesmer's eye. This fits both theme (Melina and Mesmer are pretty much confirmed siblings) and that Merika is capable of sealing God-like entities within her children.
Especially it would also make sense because another similarity i realized between them is, Messmers serpent was sealed behind his right eye and melinas left eye is always closed.
50:36 I mean I think those two are on a different scale. Freyja is suffering from the Scarlet Rot, sure, but Malenia is the *goddess* of the Scarlet Rot’s outer god. I’m sure healing someone is much easier when they don’t have a Big Disease God in their head. Miquella wasn’t just looking to cure Malenia, he was looking to free her from the outer god of Rot, that’s what the unalloyed needle is all about and why it helps you get out of the Frenzied Flame ending
A theory I have heard a lot more recently is that Marika conspired with Ranni to kill Godwyn. Because they were all Numen, the theory proposes that they were nobility within Marika's order, and as such had a lot of loyalty to her. Marika was trying to kill a god to eliminate herself eventually, but Ranni turned the tables by killing herself, halting the true death of Godwyn. If Marika was involved in the dire plot, she likely has a grudge against her daughter both for betraying her and for avoiding her role as a replacement god. I think the black knife assassins were around Iji and Blaidd because they were looking for Ranni under orders from or loyalty to Marika.
It's intentionally done that way. They like to leave a lot of open ends for the community to speculate on. After enjoying this in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls tri, Bloodborne, I've honestly come to crave writing that is conclusive. Sekiro did a bit better of a job with this, and it quickly became my favorite FS narrative, even with it's real-world roots. It's honestly killed a lot of replayability for me, because "hunting for secrets" seems like a fools errand. I feel like Aldia or Ymir. "it was unhinged from the very start"
@@agxryt There's less room for lore speculation in every previous fromsoft title though. The scale of Elden Ring doesn't match well with this style of storytelling.
@@agxryt If you are just here to repeat what Miyazaki said, it is not really useful lol... If there is no scenario that can match all the ingame info, it is not intentional, it is poor story design 🙂
At this point, Radagon is either a reincarnation of the Fell God or his avatar, considering how he waged war against the giants on behalf of Marika. The question of who he was before and why he allied himself with Marika/GO/GW still remains...
Maybe Radagon did with Marika the same thing that Miquella did with St Trina... And he used ''Marika Mischief'' to appear as her to rule the land between. Who knows???
@@MidnightatMidian technically marika did it first, so miquella did what she did, splitting herself. Although it seems to be a mix of them both being empyreans and neumans, because ranni couldnt do this, but most neumans couldnt do this either, including malenia.
I think the Black Knives killed Iji because after they killed Godwyn, Ranni let them take the fall for the Night of Black Knives and imprisoned their leader on the Moonlight Alter. They attacked Iji looking for revenge and to free their leader. That makes the most sense to me
I mean, Ranni was in cahoots with them. She gave em the rune of death script to embue their blades. They only go and kill iji and Blaiid after Ranni sets off. While yes Ranni loves them both I think she just wanted to tie up any loose ends that could become problems one day, so she probably sent the knives after em. Blaiid going crazy and iji possibly releasing any weaknesses she could have either voluntarily or if he were captured and interrogated.
but the night of black knives happened some unknown time in the last, seemingly far back. multiple wars have happened since, why are they only attacking now?
This is the problem with people that only have a surface level understanding of the lore. They make videos that confuse the entire community about why they're confused.
I think since there exists St. Trina's lily in the base game, the DLC was showing where that moniker for the lily came from, or maybe she's even the Original plant... we saw St. Trina's (literal) Lily (form). Once we killed Miquella, her bloom fell from the stalk and died. Also, as Melania and Miquella are twins, and Melania had buds in the form of Milicent and her sisters, St. Trina could have been a literal bud who grew into a separate being. The flower symbols already being adopted by both twins, esp Miquella: Haligtree, Bewitching branch, his lily, etc....
Marika and Radagon seem to have differnt goals. Marika breaks the Elden ring and wants her kids to make a new order. Radagon seem to think the golden order was already great and didnt need to be replaced and thus tries to stop the tarnished from changing the order.
I think they are the only successful saint that came from the shadow realm and is y they can separate and join again. But it’s weird they were joined while being crucified. And that marika seems to be dead by the time we get there, it’s like he’s just controlling a husk.
I think more specifically on the outset Marika was more for the Golden Order. Forcing Radagon to leave his new life with his Carian family, leading to Renalla to go insane. And now that the golden order no longer serves her interests Marika shattered the elden ring. But Radagon is not happy about that, if he must be slave to Marika's golden order and give up the life he chose for himself, so too should Marika. It's his revenge on her for taking away the life he wanted.
Regarding the Marika quote, I don't think she means she will personally sacrifice the demigods that don't reach their potential, just that they will become fodder for those that do. Eat or get eaten, so to speak
I’ve been playing these games long enough to know that most of the things you speculate may get explained in the DLC, will in fact, not get explained in the DLC.
I've got one that I dont think was touched on. Where are Miquella and Malenia's shadows? And, to a much lesser extent, the Gloam-Eyed Queen's? Maybe there's something about warding off the influence of Outer Gods with the unalloyed gold, or maybe their curses serve as the failsafe for the Two Fingers so shadows weren't needed, but the the topic is never even broached. The game states for a fact that all Empyreans are provided shadows from birth, and just ice skates right the fck by Miquella and Malenia when it comes to this. It's weird.
The reason why Godfrey and his tarnished were banished is quite simple,after the lord of the battlefield killed his last enemy he had no other purpose and thats when the grace from his eyes faded away.Marika now needed someone who doesnt lust for battle every 5 minutes,she now needed to consolidate her golden order,thats where Radagon came in. Radagon was a scholar at heart and he set up the golden order fundamentalism movement in a time when the erdtree faith was waning in its people.The reason why she gave grace back to Godfrey and his tarnished is because she herself lost faith in the greater will (plus the fact her favourite golden child was murdered) and needed a backup plan to establish a new order,doesnt matter what kind of order. Its clear by the time we enter the fray that the golden order not only is stagnant but its people are suffering the curse of living life without death,it either needs outside intervention or correction.
I think this comment needs to be seen by more people. This is the same conclusion I drew; the Tarnished I think were a hidden resource Marika knew would be underestimated if she stripped them of her power and banished them. People would stop thinking about them, maybe even the Greater Will/Metyr would ignore them until it was needed, seeing them as insignificant. Until she had no other options, and was about to be imprisoned. She returned her grace to the Tarnished knowing that it may be a long shot, but also knowing Godfrey was among them. It all feels like a planned out but desperate last ditch effort, like she was secretly keeping the Tarnished in her back pocket for just such an occasion, not knowing if she would ever need to, but too paranoid about the past to not have at least one backup plan. The only place I slightly disagree on is that her backup plan was to establish a NEW order. Explanation: She removed the Rune of Death to start her reign, but in the end she lost faith in the Golden Order, as it hadn't been able to solve the problems she wanted it to. When she saw the end coming for her, she activated her sleeper cells, making sure that there was a system of support for the Tarnished, like the Roundtable Hold and Hewg (There is a Two Fingers and a Finger Reader here as well, how convenient). I think she co-opted the Greater Will/Metyr's plan by using the Two Fingers and the Finger Maidens to make the Tarnished strong enough to get to her, leaving just enough breadcrumbs that we, as the Tarnished, would at least be questioning things by the time we got there. I don't believe personally that her hope was to start another age with her still as it's god, but to end the cycle, having had enough grief and horror for many lifetimes over with everything that happened to her, compounded with everything she KNOWS: about the world, about reality, the Outer Gods, everything. I think she want's out... But as we know from St. Trina's dialogue, godhood is a cage. Desperate times call for desperate measures. This is why I support the idea/theory that Marika planned the Night of Black Knives WITH Ranni, whose entire goal is to end the cycle and take divinity away from the Lands Between. I just think that even Marika didn't expect good ol' Radahn holding back the very stars, and Ranni's fate. All of this was only put into action because the Haligtree failed and Mohg took Miquella away before he could finish transforming. It is a little in the air as to whether or not he was charmed first, but either way, due to Mohg or by proxy, Miquella and his grand plan, the Haligtree failed. Unalloyed Gold failed. This forced Marika's hand, since Ranni was the last suitable vessel for the Elden Ring. Let me know if you think I'm pants-on-head crazy or you think I got something wrong.
@@krenaltus5809 Nah,its pretty on point with what I gathered.Marikas godhood was in the end a fate worse than death. Radagon wanted his golden order fundamentalism to continue forever and if it means to supress his other stronger personality so be it. Marika was a vessel,devoid of life that holds the elden ring at the end of the day.She wanted someone to unleash the rune of death so she can die and a new age could take hold.
Pretty sure the reason Radagon was hostile with us is cos of Marika. Marikas plan was for us to finally kill her and start a new age. Meanwhile Radagon was trying to save and continue his Golden Order after Marika broke the Elden Ring, That’s why in trailers you see Radagon hammering he’s trying to fix it. And a theory for Godwyn being killed is he was a sacrifice to Marika’s secret plan to die but it failed. Marika worked with the Black Knife and Ranni hired them unknowingly to fulfill her plan to start a new world, without the greater will or 2 fingers. Or it was both Ranni and Marika’s plan together where they both get what they want.
I want a bright and lively fantasy world with a full length campaign full of NPC quests and battles, and when we reach what feels like the end, the world breaks. Then we spend the second half of the game fighting to fix what we accidentally or purposely destroyed.
This has nothing to do with elden ring I was rewatching the lore of the temples I don't remember ever hearing about this but did the Hero of Time merge his alternate past self or was there two links one that never left the forest or something and the one sent back in time.
The ships probably belong to the Numen who came to the lands between. The putrid slime is probably the corpses of them as we learn that numens/shamans can meld together.
I dont think numens/shamans were in the stone coffins. The contents of the coffins are said to be "impure" and there is no mention of numens/shamans being impure
mystery 1: i have 2 ideas, the first ive had since launch and the second thats new. 1) the godskins are allied with the black knives and helped hill Iji. We know both the godskins and black knives used the power of the Rune of Death and have since possibly allied over this commonalty. The sealing of Destined Death in the past likely angered both factions and Ranni's actions leading to the creation of Deathroot and Those Who Live in Death has now muddied death further, likely drawing more ire, , and right when Ranni's fate gets unsealed and she starts making power plays towards her own age, they strike. We see on the divine bridge a godskin after her deathbrand, hinting they may be after her. Also Ranni is currently hiding her identity, i see no reason for her to do so unless assassins wielding death or the godskins and their black flame were after her, i see nothing else in The Lands Between that could even pose a threat to her and cause her to want to hide. 2) this is a multi-layered theory that starts with Godwyn being Miquella's first attempt at a lord, Miquella called both "lord brother" and tried to have both killed, using Malenia for Radahn but using the Black Knives on Godwyn. Im thinking since the DLC reveals, Miquella was behind the Night of Black Knives. We have evidence Ranni knew Miquella through the bell and knowing torrent. We know Marika had ties to the Black Knives, and if she did im sure her son would too and we also know he has the effect to cause people to want to love and serve him. I could go way longer on this but long story short Ranni messed up the plan to kill Godwyn to send him to the Shadowlands to become Miquella's Lord Brother, making Miquella put a hit on her through the Black Knives he used during the plot. Immediately after messing with this plan she goes into hiding and changes her name and appearance to match someone that used to exist, Renna. The second she reveals to us she is Ranni I believe is the first time that knowlege left her inner circle, and since most will talk to Rogier (who confides in Fia) and Gideon I think that info spreads across The Lands Between fairly quickly until the assassins hear of it, I could even see Fia going and spreading this info after leaving. Now part of the first theory could still be true here, the Godskins still could have still been allies with the Black Knives, but either way im leaning towards this theory a lot more now.
Miquella attempted to have an eclipse to heal Godwyn and genuinely loved him. I think he was first choice and Miquella had to move on to Radahn when the eclipse failed.
@@maiafay yes but i beieve it went like this; Black Knives plot was made to kill Godwyn and send him to the Shadowlands, same as Radahn. This plot failed due to Ranni carving half the mark on herself at the same time, only half- killing Godwyn, failing to send him to the Shadowlands. Due to this Miquella created the Golden Epitaph to try to grant Godywn a "True Death" which also failed, causing him to turn to the Eclipse to rebirth Godwyn's soul into the Shaowlands, which yet again fails. After all else failed, he turned to Radahn and sent Malenia to kill him.
Where does it say Miquella was behind the night of the black knives? Also, the Godskin are aligned with the Gloam Eyed Queen, who originally had the destined death that Maliketh stole and were later stolen again for the Black Knife weapons. Fia's quest also confirms that Ranni was behind it and purposely died in flesh as Godwyn died in soul.
Great video! I have another "mystery", maybe it is already solved, but now that we know about the true nature (and origins) of the Shaman and the Numen thanks to the DLC, is the red hair found on shard of Alexander talisman related to the origins of Radagon? Also, according to the lore (pls correct me if I'm wrong, this lore is dense and confusing af) Radagon and Marika come from the same people (all the Shaman and Numen stuff), and those people were submitted by the hornsent, forcing them to blend into the jars. My hot take is that Radagon is an actual person, completely separated from Marika, with possibly his own will and desires, but due to the property of "blending" into one, I think Marika somehow took over Radagon, blending into one. By stating this, I think there is some (highly unlikely) indistinct connection between the hair found on the Talisman and the origins of Radagon (assuming that he is a separate person and not a product that Marika made) Also, as a genuine question, is it stated where Alexander comes from?
My theory always was that it was Ranni that sent the Black Knife assassins. Something about her dialogue felt more sinister like they were two loose ends she had to neutralize because they were incompatible with her new world. Even though she spoke of love, this is Elden Ring afterall and Ranni always felt a little sketchy. But that's what I love about these games. Making interpretations!
What about all the soulless demigods in the mausoleums? The ones who died during the night of the black knives? Marika definitely had more than two husbands. Regarding the Scadutree and Erdtree, they were one tree once. Look at all the hornset carvings and motifs and they basically use the symbol of a twin tree double spiral everywhere. Like, everywhere. They were separated by Marika and that’s why the scadutree is withering. It’s cut off from its other half.
You might have missed something in regards to Radahn being Miquella's consort. The whole reason the war in Caelid went on was because Malenia was sent to fetch Radahn to be Miquella's consort. The young lion's helm says this: > When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear- "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort." This answered the question a lot of people had about one of the base game trailers, where Malenia is seen to whisper something into Radahn's ear, shortly before nuking the whole region with rot. Which leads me to strongly believe that Malenia wouldn't have had to use the rotflower in Caelid - for her own sake and the sake of the whole region - if Radahn actually agreed to come along in the first place. In fact, this makes it seem more like Malenia's final ace upon her sleeve. Friendly sparring match? My theory is that Miquella, as he's known to do, charmed his half-brother. Yes, Radahn might have agreed to become Miquella's consort, but I doubt it was an agreement made while having a clear mind. I wouldn't be surprised if Radahn was either out of reach of Miquella's influence or the spell somewhat waned over time at the point where Malenia was coming to Caelid. If the same charm is able to apply to demigods, who says that Radahn wasn't just as afraid of Miquella as Ansbach is? And I'm not even saying that Miquella intentionally charmed his half-brother. We don't really know how it works, but judging from the fight against the promised consort, it's just his words which are enough - even with a discarded great rune. And even if Radahn was never charmed, who knows if he didn't just have a change of heart? After all Radahn is a great general who thrives during war, which is quite the antithesis to Miquella's kindness (even though Miquella might be even more brutal in his ways). Miquella also didn't need Radahn as a warrior on his side - after all he already had Malenia, Blade of Miquella. So I'd not be surprised if Radahn saw losing something of himself if he went along. And lastly, Radahn also held the stars in place to stop the fate of the Carian royal family, and how would that have changed if he left? Because let me ask this: Was the land of shadow already disconnected from the lands between at that point? Because that land does not really have a sky, and the moon you can see is what Rellana brought along.
regarding the Iji and Blaidd mystery - Blaidd has a bit of “hidden dialogue” before he attacks at Ranni’s Rise, saying “No, I’m part of her very being. I could never betray her, no matter what might happen…Ranni…she needs me.” It’s interesting to note that during this dialogue, his voice starts to become more gritty and feral, similar to Maliketh in Farum Azula, which could insinuate some sort of impending madness that Blaidd was trying to combat. not sure if that lends towards any solution of the mystery, but interesting nonetheless
If you get your heart stolen, some of Miquella lines you listed are there as you’re afflicted. However, if there is a hidden ending. I believe it has something to do with dying by getting your heart stolen twice, receiving the emote, and using it somewhere.
The ring leader of the assassins' is in an evergaol in Ranni's area. The assassins have been clearly betrayed by Ranni after the night of the black knives, this is why they are chasing her and everyone related to her, the theory you put that Igi is the one who hired them to kill blaaid does not make sense one bit.
That is made especially clear in the event that you do not free Blaidd or free Blaidd but do not tell Iji you did so Iji will openly question how Blaidd escaped meaning he still thought Blaidd was imprisoned in the Evergoal and so wouldn't have sent the Black knife Assassins to Ranni's rise because he we still under the impression Blaidd had already been dealt with or would have sent them to the Evergoal even if that had been his intent clear. Obviously Iji did not send the Black knife Assassins. But I think I know who they were acting on the behalf of and why Black Knife Assassins had a falling out with Ranni after the Night of black knives and thus why Ranni locked up their leader Alecto in the Evergoal on the Moonlight Altar in its immediate aftermath. See I think Ranni enter into the conspiracy of the Night of Black Knives with the plan that Radahn was the demi god to be slain and in soul in the ritual to shed her empyrean flesh while she died in body as Radahn's death would have also crucially free her suspended fate which Radahn held in Stasis. As thing went with Godwyn slain in Radahn's place only the former was accomplished so Ranni's ultimate ambitions were literally ground to a halt or an entire age, possibly eternally depending upon the Tarnished choices. Hence Its pretty obvious to see how and why such a betrayal would royal piss Ranni off resulting in Alecto's imprisonment at her hands. As to why Black Knife Assassins would switch the target from Radahn to Godwyn, i think they did so on the secret orders of Ranni's ambitious fellow rival empyrean half brother Miquella both to sabotage Ranni's ambitions and to further his own as well as to save the soul of his self-promised consort Radahn. Think of it Miquella would have engineered the downfall of the golden order while eliminating the lone empyrean that stood in opposition to him all while none were the wiser not even Ranni herself who but anther pawn in his scheme. I don't think its a coincidence that the largest number of living Black Knife Assassins in the game are found in Ordinia in the service of Miquella guarding the seal to the Haligtree or that its there where you find the Black Knife Assassin aromor set the environment storytelling paints an direct connection between Miquella and the Black Knife Assassins, Which also explains their attack on Blaidd and Iji as they are attacked just as Ranni succeeds in freeing her fate, slaying her 2 finger, and securing a consort IE when Ranni after an age of being effectively neutralized has once again become a legitimate threat and rival to Miquella and his ambitions.
Miquella wants a gentle place?? Dude is Griffith. All he wants is to be the all-knowing, all-ruler, all-powerful, all-everything! He will get nothing from me… Internet, you find his / her / it ending, please share… please…
Some on Marika, which I realised before the DLC corroborated it. She's very much still alive. Gideon said that a tarnished cannot kill a god, so we didn't. She was sealed by someone following the Golden Order and powerful enough to take her on. Through the DLC we know know that it wasn't the Golden Order itself, so it has to be Radagon, possibly working together with the Elden Beast. And we all played into Marika's trap, which Gideon foresaw. Marika wanted you to kill the vassal of the greater will to free her from her constraints, the same way Ranni killed her two fingers. The DLC later confirmed that the fingers and the elden beast are very similar in nature. With this new freedom, she could rule without the constitution that held her back. The normal ending makes you the kingmaker of an unshackled tyrant. Marika's story was always about control. She always had power, but not enough. She couldn't stop her favourite son from being killed, she couldn't stop whatever Godfrey did to have her banish him, she couldn't birth any healthy children since Godwyn, she couldn't eradicate the giants, and even with all her planning, she couldn't have predicted Ranni. She's a goddess, but she was never powerful enough to do whatever meant most to her. Thinking about it, she's a lot like Anakin, but far more bitter after a far rougher life. And now we have the DLC, which corroborates this. She couldn't stop the hornsent from putting her people in jars, she couldn't save her actual firstborn from her curse, all she could do was protect her empty village. The Elden Beast crashed near her village and chose her, and ever since then she had all the power in the world, but it was never enough to protect those dear to her. I also think that the sealing of the land of shadows, the sealing of the rune of death, everything she did was initially to prevent her fellow shamans from dying so she could find a way to restore them.
Pretty funny how literally one casual conversation with any of the npcs could clear up like 90% of these lore debates. But instead the player character is just fine with not following up on any of the annoying riddles everyone speaks in. I get that that’s the style of From’s storytelling, and it works in a few places, but on the whole the fact that there’s so many gaps in motivation-especially in the motivations of very major characters-is just irritating.
Ranni isn't the Gloam Eyed Queen because, she'd be using nothing but destined death black flame to kill at will. She'd had to be really bored in order to go through all that hassle just get rid of her flesh.
The Miquella line was just a cut line that was replaced by his "Lord Brother" entrance in the now DLC final fight. I assume Miyazaki thought using the same wording as Ranni was redundant
The only reason I'm not on board with Iji having killed the assassins is because they aren't also set aflame. I'm more inclined to think that he ordered his own assassination out of guilt. The dead assassins are sprawled out all over so I doubt they were ordered to kill themselves or each other. Their death is more strange to me than the death of Iji.
I don't believe the demigods of the mausoleums are literally headless, i think it leans more towards the idea that they are unidentified, and that the coffins don't have heads because of that, but that's just my thinking.
Messmer's theme being similar to Radagon's lends credence to the idea he is Messmer's father. And that like St. Trina was a cast off part of Miquella on his path to godhood, Radagon was a cast of part of Marika on her path to godhood. They were separate beings for a time, recombining after Marika recalled him to be the second elden lord. As such, I think Radagon and Marika had Messmer and Melina before Godfrey became Elden Lord, possibly before Marika became a god.
my mere speculation is that the huge stone coffins are starships used from the hornsent/numen to come on the planet where the lands between are (we can see in the dynasty ruins people coming in the lands on some sort of ships). the flesh of the ones which didnt survived decayed long before the erdtree era, right where the ships landed
You want a secret Mequella ending? Just let him embrace you twice without his Great Rune during the last fight in the DLC. 😂 One point about Mequella “healing” Freyja. He didn’t. He just stopped it like he didwith his sister. Ansbach mentions that Freyja walks around with the dent in her helmet and fights unaffected by her rot sickness meaning she still has it but she isn’t cured of it. That is what I took from his words.
WTF... MIQUELLA IS CLEARLY GRIFFITH: willing to sacrifice anyone and anything for his vision, manipulating everyone he can in the meantime... How can people consider him good? 🤦🤦🤦
Yeah, my favorite part of Elden Ring was when Miquella opened a portal to hell and had all of his friends and followers slaughtered. Miquella doesn't sacrifice anyone besides St. Trina, which comes as a part of him actually sacrificing parts of himself, and even then he doesn't outright kill them or condemn them to death. Maybe Mohg and Radahn, depending on your reading of events, but even that's up in the air.
@@Beeyo176the heck you mean Mohg and Radahn are up in the air ?? Miquella literally charmed Mohg so that he would allow him to enter the land of shadow while knowing that someone would come kill him since that'd allow him to use his body even in death, and Radahn clearly didn't consent to becoming Miquella's consort since they have very different visions of what they wish for the world (Miquella wanted love and compassion, Radahn was only ever chasing after constant war and battle), which is why Miquella sent his own sister which he also clearly charmed for all her existence to kill Radahn so his soul would die and end up in the Land of shadow, which allowed him to resurrect him for his own purposes. And that's not even talking about how he gained popularity as a god among the populations of albinaurics and demi humans, or how his followers all killed each other the second he removed his charm because he never cared about them as individuals, only for the fact that they could do his bidding. The whole point of the DLC is to confirm the fact that there are no good gods or demigods. The concept itself is dangerous because they're not perfect beings with perfect motivations, they're very broken humans who have been given way too much power and the ability to enact their will upon the world. No human should have access to that much power, and that's also the reason why we can't access the gate of divinity once we're done fighting Miquella and Radahn.
@ricochico1144 I say it's up in the air because neither Mohg being charmed nor Radahn rejecting Miquella's proposition are confirmed to have happened anywhere in-game, and are conclusions you came to based on assumptions. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's how most of the game's lore operates, but you're claiming them to be certainties when they are not. Mohg was charmed? Okay, how? Mohg and Miquella were not just damn near a full map apart from each other, Mohg was underground and Miquella was sealed in his tree in the furthest reaches of the Lands Between. If Miquella had the power to charm people from so far away, and under such circumstances, why the hell would he need this whole convoluted scheme to attain godhood in the first place? Why not just tell Mohg to off himself if he just needed his corpse? Why send Malenia (whom there is absolutely no evidence of being charmed, you're just guessing here) to kill Radahn if Miquella was powerful enough to just charm him into consenting? And further more, what makes you think Radahn didn't consent? He was much more than a war monger, maybe he liked Miquella's idea and only asked that he die in a glorious battle if he needed to die in order for the plan to work. He's know as the Promised Consort, implying that a promise was made. I personally think he did consent, more in a way that he was appeasing his little brother than making a full on deal, and by the time he realized how serious Miquella was it was too late. He tried to back out but Malenia wasn't having it. And speaking of Malenia, why would you think she was charmed instead of just being a devout sister? Miquella is functionally dead by the time you reach her, and she is no less a zealot than she was before her slumber. Then we circle back around to if Miquella was all that powerful, to charm Mohg from halfway across the world, and keep his charm going on his Empyrean sister long after his body is dead and his rune is in another realm, why the long convoluted plans? And the albanurics? What about them? Miquella did them no harm. He asked nothing of them, not even worship, and gave them refuge in a world that hated them. I don't get your point here. His followers didn't all kill each other. The penultimate boss of the DLC is a group of them trying to kill you because they believe in Miquella, charm or not. Did he care about them individually? Probably not, but I'm not sure I can say his intentions were meant to be discompassionate, nor was his purpose for his followers to die horribly in his name. People like to compare Miquella to Griffith, but at no point did Miquella perform some vile, heinous act in the name of his goals. Here, since I'm coming off like a "Miquella did nothing wrong" guy. I think if he's guilty of anything (he's guilty of a lot, but this one sticks out), it's letting his naivety blind him to both the brutal nature of power and his own hypocrisy. Had the Tarnished never entered the picture, Miquella would've attained Godhood with Radahn and a healed Malenia by his side. A world of kindness and compassion...enforced by arguably the two most fearsome warriors that ever walked the planet, and a charm that entreats complete subservience. So you follow him out of magic charm or absolute fear, and neither of those is an actual good way to rule. Now I don't argue your interpretations of the events or motivations behind the DLC, but you're presenting things as fact that are very much left open ended for people to draw their own conclusions from. I used the same information you did and came to a few different conclusions myself.
Has anyone ever thought Melina is Ranni's other half? Seems like other than having 4 arms, Emperans have alternate selves. Marika had Radagon, Miquella had Trina so maybe Ranni had Melina. Would be strange if Ranni never had an alter ego since all the other Emperans had one.
I think people often forget that we never see ranni real body and the doll she occupies the whole game is fashioned after her mentor the snow witch (likely named renna). Her gloam eye is more aesthetic and it’s likely this snow witch is the one who had a gloam eye not ranni. I will admit though it’s possible that the snow witch is an alternative self to Melina and/or the gloam eye queen
@@TheOFFICIALTAIKHI honestly didn’t even realize the corpse on top of the divine tower was hers but still, the point still stands that ranni probably didn’t have a gloam eye
47:54 shadows are projections of objects to lower dimensional space. Functionally speaking, a shadow of a 4 dimensional object would render as a 3 dimensional object to a human observer. In addition, a 4 dimensional object would only be observable to a human in its 3 dimensional components. Basically what I’m saying is the shadow of a higher dimensional object would be perceived as a physical normal object to a human and it’s likely components of the erdtree exists in dimensional spaces not able to be observed by the player
Iji creates dull weapons because he uses the giant's forging tecnique as the hammer indicates, and there's closeness bewteen the flame of the giants and that of the GEQ as Amon's ashes indicate. Also, at the end of one of her dialogues Ranni says to tell blaidd and iji that she loves them so for me the headcanon is that she wanted them murdered so she will not have "human-like" bonds in the age of the stars in order to avoid the fickleness that marika/radagon had
mystery one, i just think that maybe through the process of dying in body alone, both Ranni and Melina (separate individuals at first) somehow communed with the GEQ/ were possessed in some way by her if she’s more of a fluid being that was once an empyrean. i fully believe melina and messmer are the GEQs kids that were adopted by marika. and since radagon could’ve been their father, maybe ranni was in some way also inherited the flame their father was so ashamed of it.
Resurrecting leonard would not have been an act of compassion, bad way to start the 1000 year journey by bringing an emaciated abused horse back so his obese brother had something to sit on.
Didn't we kill Marika? We killed Radagon. Also: we when we killed Miquella, saint Trina died too. She may already have been dying, though, and Miquella seems to be the dominant form, but Radagon seems to be the subservient form to Marika.
The reason Marika made Godfrey and his soldiers tarnished is because after defeating the fire giants Godfrey lost the glow in his eyes since he had no one else to fight which in marikas eyes made her have no use for him now
I started watching you several years ago when you were making BOTW content and I've stuck with you and you've even got me interested in Elden Ring lore
Great video!! Mystery #1 - what did Iji do that was high treason? (source: Iji's mirrorhelm) Mystery #4 - It seems more likely that Placidusax's god was his version of Marika, not an Outer God (Marika is a true god according to the finger maiden). Placidusax was Elden Lord and thus needed to be consort to a god. Mystery of who is St. Trina - I think this can be answered by the D brothers. They are described has having 1 soul in 2 bodies and that they were welcomed into the golden order. Just like Marika/Radagon, Miquella/Trina share the same soul but in 2 different bodies. Miquella just went the extra bit and fully severed Trina from himself. Was Radagon always Marika? - Yes. Explains how Ranni/Rykard/Radahn have demigod powers. Also, the holy church turtle said it was weird how Radagon, a mere champion, was called back to be Marika's consort. It seemed like she may have sent Radagon to learn sorcery (intellect) to be more well rounded. The Greater Will is a cosmic entity so having intellect and faith combined (instead of just faith) would make the golden order more whole....I think Another mystery - who/what are the giant skeletons found in the lands between?
One thing i find interesting is how marika makes a tarnished a person of grace when they are the ones who are seen so lowly even more lowly then the ones who bear horns. Just like in the dlc she rises from being tortured and squandered the tarnished kind of lives that same path but isnt bound by fate so its understandable how you get alternate endings since nothing can really influence your character.
Here's a thought, what if we the player character are an extension of Miquella as well, seeing how we keep getting guided by his grace, we both have power over torrent, we both are active agents at least as of the dlc.
And btw, get your heart stolen by Miquella but don’t go into the fight afterwards, go back to the main game, kill the Elden beast and you should be able to get Miquella’s ending
The thing with Metyr implies that the Greater Will hasn't been giving guidence since it abandoned her, which begs the question, did the Two Fingers ever truly have direct contact with the Greater Will? Ymir certainly seem to believe that there never was any hope. At least in my head canon, the Greater Will hasn't been active in the Lands Between since it sent the Elden Beast down (which happened after Metyr, as we are told Metyr arrived on the first falling star). This, plus what we're told by Hyetta when we melt her eyes with the Frenzied Flame, says to me that the Greater Will is either not an Outer God or the first/strongest Outer God, since the Elden Ring still works despite the Greater Will having left the world that The Lands Between is a part of, long ago. The other Outer Gods are powerful yet none of them has something like the Elden Ring. The Outer Gods are like the Great Ones from Bloodborne, beings that are literally not of this world (with a "physical" manifestations only being possible to see in dream and nightmare realms) while the Greater Will is more like a single alien that physically exists but is out among the stars, far away. That, or the Greater Will is like the Abrahamic god of the game world while the Outer Gods are further away, weaker, or smaller parts of the One Great than the Greater Will (unless the Greater Will is what caused the fracture of the One Great, making the Greater Will more akin to the Devil). So, the Greater Will is either a really powerful alien, the first/strongest Outer God, the "Abrahamic God" or the Devil. About Radagon: I hate how Bandit presents it at first like it's a fact that the Greater Will wants the same as Marika, when it's implied that Marika is the one that went against the Greater Will which is why she's imprisoned and impaled with a weird red thing. Meanwhile, Radagon is called the Leal Hound of The Golden Order, BUT! We, the Tarnished can choose any Mending Rune (or even not use one for the regular ending) and still become Elden Lord, which implies that either the Greater Will is fine with whatever as long there is a God and an Elden Lord or that the Greater Will isn't just fine but doesn't care; it either really has abandoned the Lands Between for good or it just doesn't care in general. Bandit's personal opinion seems closer to whatever the "real" answer is at least. Also, why does he say "Loux" differently from how they say it in the game? He say what sounds closer to "Low" while Horah Loux himself say something more like "Lu" like in Lunar.
Idk I just thought of this, maybe radagon and marika are the same person because people born in the lands between get a shadow of themselves in the land of shadow, marika is radagon’s “shadow”
Bandit has gone from a solely Zelda theorist to a variety theorist to solely a Eldin ring theorist. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. I just like the juicy content.
11:07 I think I made a similar comment on your last video where you talked about Blaidd, but his eyes tell the story. His eyes turn *red* , which was a deliberate choice to show that he *was* going mad. We don't attack Blaidd first; he attacks *us* first. If he was really entirely sane, he could have just asked. It would have been that simple. "Hey. Where's Ranni? Are you here to kill her?" At best it could have been a battle of words. But no. Blaidd outright attacks us. And his eyes show why. Because he was mad. He may not have been a danger to Ranni herself, but he still went mad, and that's why he attacked us. We killed him in self-defense... we had no choice. Bandit, I love you, but you really need to go back and take a closer look at Blaidd's eyes when he attacks your Tarnished. He is absolutely mad at that point, and the fact that his eyes turn red proves it.
It should be noted that fire is not the only substance able to resist rot mentioned around 16:51 Unalloyed gold also resists rot, which being a product of smithing and alchemy Iji likely did not use this as all of his weapons are grey but i wanted to correct this, it not only pauses not just rot and the effects of all outer gods, but actively fends them off and reverses their effects if used in the storm of faram azula outside of time This also means the missing component to finish the needle as described in the description is gravel stone
Uhh The Gloam Eyed Queen, is just the Gloam Eyed Queen. In other words-given the context of the rune of death BEING SOMEBODY. The Gloam Eyed Queen is this world’s Grim Reaper. The fanbase trying to make Melina or Ranni that, are getting the lore wrong. Melina is just a daughter of Marika with the purpose of burning the Erdtree. She was all apart of Marika’s plan as a young sapling child of the Erdtree. Marika’s Erdtree-from within. Marika wants death restored-to get rid of Radagon and bring in a new order. Ranni is a daughter of Marika/Radagon/Renalla and seeks her own accord. She doesn’t want the Two Fingers controlling her fate.
I think Rani had them both killed to tie up loose ends. She isn’t a good guy and is clearly ok with using people and killing her siblings. These deaths just hurt a little more to her.
References to The Greater Will been a player in all this does not ring true. Count Ymir's quest tells us the Greater Will abandoned the Lands between and his/her/it's daughter Metyr mother of the two fingers a long time ago. The Greater Will failed and basically thought screw this I'm outta here. We are also told Metyr was damaged and unhinged and so is Marika from the start. The guidance Marika received from the Two fingers was also wrong from the beginning. The Golden order was a lie. The entire story and lore were a cluster f**k from the beginning.
Why do people believe what very, very dubious characters say, whole-cloth? Ymir is clearly bias, perhaps consider this before trying to pass off his words as gospel.
@@ClaymoreLinx Wake up. Every character in Elden Ring is dubious or flawed shit are you that stupid. Count Ymir is a hypocrite and guilty of what he says about the Greater Will, Metyr and Marika. The point is Einstein that there never was any hope in the first place. Elden Ring is a study of the human condition and in this case our flaws and weaknesses, greed and so on.
@@ClaymoreLinx I guess you play the game with your brain turned off. The game is a study of the human condition. Every character in the game is dubious as you put it Including Count Ymir he is a hypocrite and mad because he does exactly what he accuses others of been. The point is there was no hope to begin with every character in the story is flawed and/or damaged. Count Ymir quest outlines where it all began.
@@MuddHutter1 Why would taking the source into consideration give any intonation that I am not thinking about the game? Your point, as to the flaws and damage in the world, is not an original one. Many major religions have a concept of the world being flawed or damaged. The real point is what does this mean? Is Miyazaki really a nihilist? I think not, i.e. FF, Oolacile, etc. These questions are the hallmark of someone that really thinks about the text.
@@ClaymoreLinx Remember we are discussing a video game here lol. Yes the story and the lore has it's roots in the real world. Miyazaki might be a nihilist who knows? But he obviously took what ever story set up GRR Martin created and perverted, distorted it into what we have now. RU-vidrs are building careers out of trying to make sense of the lore. A quick perusal of these content creators work reveals there are many schools of thought and interpretations of events and characters in the game. One example of that is Melina's role in the game.
Potential spoilers fot Shadow os the Erdtree: SotE is meant to tell the story of the forging of the Golden Order which includes the removal of the Rune of Death. Is it possible that the whole reason Marika sealed Destined Death wasn't just because of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but to also enternally torture the Hornsent for their crimes against the Shamans?
My question is why Mikaela had to go through the gate of divinity but Ranni didn’t have to … and why Mikaela doesn’t have a shadow ? Is there different ways to become a god ?
Torrents former master - Ranni got the 3 wolves and spirit bell from this person. There are 3 wolves surrounding a young empyrean at Farum Azula. If they are related then the former master would be Marika as I think that is meant to be her at Farum Azula. Also, the dead finger maiden at the start, could have been varre that killed her. He knew we were maidenless and his hands are covered in blood when we first meet him. 53:59 - It would seem marika sent us the grace at the start, when she banished Godfrey and the tarnished she said in the dialogue that she would recall us after we had died waging new wars in new lands.
A tiktoker called KraberKing discovered small bits in the base game hinting at a seemingly cut Miquella ending last about a year and a half ago and I thought he was crazy but now he makes sense.
Miquella healed Freya bc it's not him in the cocoon. There's concept art of Mohg and Miquella walking side by side with the Cocoon in tow as they leave the Haligtree. Considering the name of the Mohg's palace (Mohgwyn palace) I think Godwyn is inside the cocoon bc the only entrance to a sealed of realm of the dead would be the prince of death himself. Considering Miquella tried to resurrect Godwyn with the eclipse ritual at castle Sol he would obviously need his remains to do so, and in order to prevent his body from corrupting his surroundings he put him into the cocoon. Also the "prince of death" body we see in erdtree's roots is most likely the Erdtree avatar as its the only avatar we don't fight in the game.
Few of my thoughts: 1. Gloam eyed queen is highly likely Melina. Messmer had a sister (melina) and she too bore a vision of fire. 2. Who killed Blaid and Iji? Well quite obvious it was the black knife assassins. A reason could be that one of their ilk, Tiche is trapped inside a goal at moonlight altar. So the question becomes: Why is Tiche trapped there? If ranni set about the events of the black night, why would she entrap Tiche. What happened between the 2 factions to be working together, and now wanting to kill eachother? Maybe Ranni had no other choice than to play both sides, when the black knifes were discovered and maybe Tiche ran to her or maybe Leyendell forces got hold of her. Whatever the case, Ranni had to step in and make sure this couldnt bite her in the ass later on. And so she trapped Tiche, angered the black knife assassins, and so on.. Ultimately this is left open ended so people could ponder about the reason. Could be a number of reasons, could be a mix of, could be Ranni just didnt like that bitch Tiche so she locked her up, who knows? 3. Marika is eternal, even caged she is the vessel of the elden ring. so to your question is she still alive? Yes, she is very much alive when we arrive at the erdtree and radagon took over, even though you could tell she was alrdy missing parts of her body. And who killed her? We did, depending on the ending we choose, or we keep her alive as both the vessel of the elden ring and eh wife/queen? Dunno if she can still have kids but she probably wants to die however. one of St. Trina's lines stuck with me ever since i played the dlc was: "A caged divinity is beyond saving". Also one of Melina repeat lines dialogue of Marika was something akin to: "Oh Radagon loyal dog of the golden order, you are yet to become me, you are yet to become a god, let us be shattered both you and I". 4. Radagon was the first consort of Marika, Messmer is their child. Melina too was a product of both Radagon and Marika. And had to be born around the same time. So really Godfey was 2nd consort, but as to why she sent him away. I think it actually makes sense. Godfrey/Hoarah Loux and his men, the crucible warriors, came from a time before the erdtree. Hoarah Loux had to make way for Godrey, Hoarah loux was beastlike. Godfrey is the image that the Erdtree, Marika's order wants to portray. One of strength and beauty. Marika chose godfrey for his strength obviously, but when the last enemy fell did she rly need and want him anymore and by extention, his men? In a time of peace an army always grows restless, not to metion like i said they came from a time before the erdtree. Yes they fought for the erdtree but who's to say in x years, they wont turn against her. So she sent them away, to grow/stay strong in face of adversity. So if one day, she needed them again, she could and would recall them to fight for her. Its one of the smartest things she did as a ruler. I'd anwser more but I g2g. Hope at least I cleared up some mysteries. GL
The Greater Will is based off the Abrahamic God. The meaning behind the two fingers and three fingers are a reference to the schism of Christianity. Pope Innocent III said the sign of the cross should be made with 3 fingers together, whereas Russian peasantry (Orthodox Christians) believed it should be done with two. The Tarnished Archeologist has an AMAZING video ("Why Fingers?") going into details about the Christianity's symbolism and historical influence on Elden Ring's world building and how it's related to the history of Christianity. I highly recommend his videos.
I saw an Interpretation on X about the Outer Gods lore that they all came from "The One Great" (Hyetta's Dialogue before you burn her eyes). "The One Great" then split into 2, like a big bang, namely "The Greater Will" and "The Mother of All Crucibles". "The Greater Will" was the one responsible for births, and "The Mother of All Crucibles" was the one responsible for growths. Below is my schizo interpretation combined with some Interpretation from that post: But "The Greater Will" made a mistake by also allowing every sin and every curse to manifest into each of their offspring (All living beings). In an act of Desperation, "The Greater Will" sent an envoy alongside his supposed daughter Metyr who would communicate with them so that they could 'correct' what became 'wrong. But still, "The Greater Will" lost hope so they abandoned the Lands Between altogether, meanwhile Metyr and her Fingers, victims in their own right, continued to supplant an order in the Lands Between that was already defunct and "rotten" a long time ago. "Mother of All Crucibles", on the other hand, gave blessings to those that worship her in the lands between as some sort of Evolutionary Gift (Fine Feather Crucible Talisman). She gave the hornsent her horns. She gave her feathers to the Divine Bird Warriors. She gave her thorns to the Hippopotamus. She gave her bloom to the Mirandas. She gave and gave until all of her body parts are gone and she became "Formless". The Crucible according to Crucible Tree Armor, is the Primordial form of the Erdtree and I think the Mother of All Crucibles is also the Crucible of Life, giving blessings to the hornsent and other beasts. The way she gave blessings all throughout the Lands Between kinda reminds me of the children's book "The Giving Tree" and the ending of that book is that the tree gave and gave till she lost all of her that's why I drew the conclusion that she became "Formless" in the end. Those who were "gifted" were considered as "Blessed" during the age of the Crucible but during Marika's Reign and Messmer's Crusade, They were all burned as a revenge for the jarring ritual. One of clans who were tormented by the Crusade/Genocide (Bloodfiends) peered into the corpses of their ancestors, and there they found the twisted deity called the "Formless Mother". They were tormented so much that they started to worship that twisted deity.
The last "mystery" is legitimately one of the most explicitly explained events in the entire game. That's not to say there isn't mystery to many of the finer details, but I think like... all of your questions about it are explained right to your face in the base game.
