There is no map hack, this is an ordinary game from a bee, it is perfectly visible on the bee's stream, he does not need any cheats, he is an excellent analyst, he trains a lot to keep his skill at a high level. The result of hard work, that's all!
22:30 yeah from an aoe2 player perspective I can empathize with "anything in the game is fair". That's just the sort of mentality that develops when you play a game that hasn't been updated in like 20 years. Bugs/Exploits are there forever and the meta develops around it.
Not being able to place palisade walls over existing buildings is not a "bug"; it is a game mechanic since day1. You simply can't place walls over existing buildings. Doing it inside the fog of war should be considered a "game tactic", not a "bug exploit". There is no bug to fix here. The only way for Relic to remove this mechanism, is to make ANY build inside the fog of war not possible, unless you have vision from a unit. Gamers have NO obligation to report bugs back to Relic. It's up to their morality to report bugs or keep them to themselves.
It is a bug, it was also a bug in StarCraft at one point. The way they fix it is that you can queue your unit to build it, but then when he gets there he can't actually do it and makes an error sound. Also, a gamer is not the same as a pro-gamer.
@@CorrosiveCitrus Exactly! There is no bug or exploit to fix here, as people insist. They can only change it to some different mechanism and that's it. It's not an error/crash/stuck problem which is what the term "bug" should be used and it's as much an "exploit" as the "boar pull" or the walls to kill fish...
@@CorrosiveCitrus Just like AoE is not starcraft, AoE IV is not 3, 2 nor 1. The rules are different. Not that it matters. He got kicked and probably deserved it. Also, he got his ass kicked twice today on games vs beasty. Games were his scouting and techniques were VERY different from those miracle scouting on the tournament.
Hi Beastyqt, I would like to argue with you on "what is bug" which you have said is a fact and true. I am not an apologist and I watch demu and beastyqt aoe4 games. Coming to the point, there is difference between bug and game mechanics. one would call a bug if working functionality of an object is defined. Here has AOE4 defined FOG OF WAR as an entity just like a scout or prelete. Like define fog of war. What can be done and what cannot. I don't think so. Just like scout speed when attacking or increase of health and armour of enhanced units. There are not at all defined. Please let me know if you found the definition. But when aoe4 community recommends these changes especially when things are not defined, they cannot be considered as BUG but they will considered as SUGGESTIONS to improve gaming features. I worked in IT field for 5 yrs, so I think this cannot be treated as bug. Suggestions are important as they improve the game. However it is not mandatory/legal for you or 3d'bee to recommend one.
@@dezkar7944 hi, which rule of the tournament. From details provided by Demu and Beasty, cheater rule no.5 can only be applied if use of bug. I am expressing my opinion from my experience and legal point of view that this might not be the case. Bee mentioned in the interview that reason for disqualification is not mentioned. Issue could be something else. If it is only due to bug, then EGCTC, miscrosoft should explain why.
@@sainagendra6984 i'm not gonna Read the handbook bro lol, he did something that wasnt allowed don't care about the wording he knows and everyone knows that is not allowed
"A software bug is an error, flaw or fault in the design, development, or operation of computer software that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways." (from Wikipedia the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit) The build mechanic has an alleged "flaw in design", and if Bee got banned for this we can concluded that the devs did not intend it.
@@dezkar7944 That explains why you are talking shit, cause you haven't even read the handbook. It doesn't say this is against the rules. It never has been for over a decade, and never will be (okay I can't be 100% certain it never WILL be, but I'd be surprised).
Never liked Bee as a person (thought he is arrogant) but was very fond of Beasty until this situation. All shit talking about a person acusing him doing such a thing is just bullshit and very harmfull, even in such a 'polite' maner as Beasty's done. Until now i didn't see any proofs except for rumors and guess of Bee's opponents, which are funny to be taken as evidence of any kind, but doing good job in discrediting him in the public's eyes. I dont apriciate acusing a person in hacking by top streamer of aoe4 without any clarification from officials. They only announced that he was DQ from tourney and didnt mention any specific reason why. But thanks to Beasty and Demuslim many ppl think he was BANNED based on suspicious of MAPHACKING. Good job
Bee admitted to using the pallisade wall exploit, which is against the tournament rules and bannable. This is like 75% of Beasty's video making this point. Whether or not he did and used an actual wall hack doesn't matter.
@@danschmidt6206 yeah you repeat beasty's words. I watched bee's interview myself, and it was clear he didn't meant to admit he was using bug intentionally, he was talking about specific situation, that he pulled vills cuz when he was trying to build a wall, pallisade turned red and he understood something is going on there. In my mind, it make sense. The thing i cant understand is beasty doing such a thing to his opponent
@@diehard4083 yes its magic that every game on 4 lakes he happened to be building a pallisade wall in the fog of war at the exact time hid opponent's docks were going down. Just like how he magically knows where deer patches are before he scouts them and can "hear" them. I watched fitzbro's interview and it was pretty clear he was trying to say pallisade walls going red is just a game mechanic he uses. What exactly did beasty do that was so terrible besides talk about Bee's ban first? Red Bull banned him, not beasty. I guess every pro athlete should not be allowed to talk about other pro athletes then according to you?
@@danschmidt6206 yeah thats the issue - redbull DC him and didnt say why, but Beasty speculating on this thing and spreading info about possible maphacking/admitting using a bug is very bad manner imo. I dont defend bee, cuz i dont have info why they DC him, and on the other hand i dont understand how can you accuse someone in public keeping in mind all circumstances (spreading rumors a person is a maphacker without any official statement to a huge playerbase).
@@diehard4083 Beasty, Demuslim and Marinelord all pointed out Bee's play is strange in the fact that he's consistently reacting to information that shouldn't be available to him given his actual map vision. Nowhere did anyone say definitely what he's doing, beasty pointed out without access to his computer (he'd probably have deleted it by now anyway of he had a map hack) there's no way to prove it, so basically you're saying pro players shouldn't ever speculate and share their opinion on current events. And why would Microsoft/Red Bull reveal their evidence when that could lead to better hacks once other hackers learn the methods Microsoft uses?
I could of sworn this walling behavior was talked about in a Drongo or Pigeon video on 4 lakes about a month ago. I swear somebody was trying to wall off his lake repeatedly couldn't do it, and found a sneak dock in it.
I think I remember the game but as I recall it the player who was walling was trying to legitimately block off the shore so the opponent couldn't dock. He failed to wall everywhere though so the opponent snuck a dock in but it was found by villager scouting a few mins later only. I should probably just look it up.
Very intellectually dishonest of beasty to claim it's a "secret exploit." Especially when he twists Bee's words to make it sound like he's palisade scanning (legal play anyway), when actually he was just talking about 1 scenario he tried to block off a shore.
What would you do if you'd try to build palisades, say as Delhi around a secret site, you couldn't and realise that it is because there's enemy building there? You've learned illegal information unintentionally.
I knew about checking if the enemy build some building with walls and about sound "exploit" in the fog of war. But it's humanly imposible to check every 10 seconds to verify what the opponent is doing. I'm sorry for him but he deserves what he deserve...
Exactly!!! You have to keep checking several areas as well. And that is in one lake!!! So to check on two, three...his APM and screen will only be showing the lakes in fog of war instead of all the normal things like things already revealed.
If players knew that you can't place palisade walls on existing structures, then everyone including Microsoft, and RB admins must have known about the bug. Since they talk to players and testing ... If they can put up a rulebook why can't they explicitly mention such well-known bugs? I don't support anyone, just to be clear. I want to see how they tackle this situation.
Yep, it's a well known mechanic that even Beasty later admits he knew about. The developers have always said "thanks for the feedback* whenever people talk about how the mechanic should be different on the bug report forums, never recognising it as a bug. It's likely the DQ is due to something else. (not to mention that mechanic doesn't even work in unexplored, black FoW).
nah he is guilty i find that people with that accent have no guilt when cheating but thats just me. DOnt know why people with that accent do it but they always are and dont care.
In my opinion, these types of cases are very very toxic for the aoe community, due to the difficulty of obtaining conclusive evidence, so the door for random accusations will be opened for anyone (I do not defend Bee, I think he uses Hacks). I hope that those responsible for this case have conclusive evidence.
You generally don't want to reveal how you know someone is using hacks as a developer which would help ppl making said hacking tools have insight on how to workaround detection. Best to hope for is that the devs/companies aren't abusing their power and that they believe a competitive scene w/o cheating is beneficial to everyone. But this case has way too many conflicting statements/actions/coincidences on Bee's part that it's fair too assume deceit.
@@andrewnguyen4801 That makes a lot of sense. Also, the publishers have zero incentive to be creating this controversy and negative publicity by banning someone without good reason. And there's no law requiring them to disclose their findings, despite the Twitch mob's insistence.
Bug exploit isn't cheat in my opinion. I remember many many occasion in different games with cash tournament and the "bug" became meta unless it is so outrageus and it has been fixed before important tournament.
I agree with you, but I think bee did way worse than just bug exploitation. I saw a few replays on stream, and I don't believe bee only exploited walls and sounds. With walls you can see docks or mines, but you can't see scouts, deer, enemy army and workers without a full map vision hack.
@@ingrimmschboindil1302 This has to be explained to AOE2 players as the players and the community abuse nearly every glitch that is found. Attack move, which made archers hyper-OP against cav, and house scanning were meta, also in tourneys. However, AOE2 bans OP civs from tourneys as after a DLC sometimes civs are broken... steppe lancers FTW 11
Bee may or may not be guilty. I don't know. But let me say this... I think this whole thing started with beasty because Bee kicked his ass and beasty can't handle someone beating him without an explanation, so a which hunt began. I think beasty felt like Bee was guilty before looking into things and set out to prove it. Marinelord seemed to take a much more reasonable approach "innocent until proven guilty", but beasty seemed to be "guilty until proven innocent". If you read marinelord's long comments about this, he says in the end he thinks Bee is probably guilty, but Marinelord cannot say 100% for sure. Therefore, I think it is unfair to ruin someone's life and reputation based on accusations which cannot be 100% proven, even if beasty thinks they are true. Bottom line... beasty, I love you and you are a great streamer but check your ego a bit. Wololo is going to be "in person", so what are you afraid of? Let Bee show up and get humilated and then everyone will know he is a big cheater cause he can't cheat in person. If he beats you and marinelord 2-0 regularly, and then loses 0-5 at Wololo then he will be discredited. But now we won't get to see that.
I respect your content Beasty but here you are just being intellectually dishonest. Bee's statement doesn't admit to using palisade scanning; only that he tried to block the shore with palisades and then noticed the invalid placement (something most of us have come accross within our first 50 games, easy). However; even if he did admit to palisade scanning; it has been a thing for over a decade. As a top player you would know that. It's not a super secret mechanic that only bee knows about and is now abusing privately. We've all come across it - just as we've come across pathfinding through revealed fow. I discovered it as a small child in AoE 2, where I could barely beat anything above the easiest AI. I discovered it in AoE 4 within my first 10 games. The competitve community has openly used it in tournament play for years. There's never been any ruling against it. If it was not intended, it would not be still present over a decade later. Just because you FEEL like something is a bug/exploit, doesn't mean it automatically is. Most of the mechanics you see in modern games are/were unintended "bugs" or using intended mechanics in unintended/unpredicted ways. Animation cancels in most games, combo's in fighters, bunnyhopping, strafe jumping, skiing in tribes, the list goes on. Tournament organisers could start banning it now if they wanted; but how do you handle a case where you accidently see it? Do you remake the game, instant forfeit? You used the argument yourself for allowing scout animation cancels because it's too easy to accidently do it. But it's just as easy to go place a building in fow and have it show invalid. Intellectually dishonest, through and through.
MS/RB clearly had enough evidence to be convinced to ban him. They have zero incentive to be creating this much negative publicity around their tournament. They also have no obligation to share their findings and in fact have incentive not to, as disclosing detection methods offer insight into how to avoid detection. It's a proprietary matter/business function and Microsoft doesn't have to answer to anyone, see free market economics. Beasty's opinions about palisade blocking comes from a guy who is a pro player who doesn't use this tactic/exploit in competitive games. Bee admitted to using this tactic and justified it by saying that all players know about/can make use of it. The palisade blocking likely isn't the reason for the ban but as Beasty says, organizers confirmed that if no other evidence existed, even that would be enough to ban him.
@@cxzact9204 Your first two paragraphs are completely irrelevent to my comment. Your last paragraph was already addressed in my comment. Bee did not admit to exploiting any bugs. "organizers confirmed that if no other evidence existed, even that would be enough to ban him." Missing citation, going to need a source on that one.
Hasn't this "exploit" been present and tolerated in AoE2 for forever? Sure it's a different game but it seems pretty weird to ban someone without warning for a mechanic that has previously been treated as not obviously cheating in the series
Now of course, if there's been that much suspicion of him doing worse stuff than this palisade thing, then the ban totally makes sense. I just find it weird if this is being championed as the official reason
Also 30:28. 100% agree, the fact that he abuses a bunch of mechanics that sound a lot more bugged _and_ the fact that he seems to hide the mechanic in his streams and ladder games throws enough shade to warrant a ban. Contrary to what I assumed coming from AoE2, he's not oblivious enough to the buggedness of this mechanic to where a warning would be needed.
It has been present forever, and openly used in competitive play forever. Bee also doesn't even say he uses it; those words that were twisted and taken out of context were about a specific scenerio where he wanted to block off the shore and then noticed the invalid placement. So even if they banned it now (would be a stupid choice), how do we handle these situations? Are players supposed to roleplay that they didn't notice, like playing splitscreen fps games and trying to pretend you don't notice where your friend is on the map? lmao
Build a wall, you know... it's been there since aoe1!!!! And you have never used that? You have never looked in the fog of war and looked at the ground changing when buildings are placed? is that not a bug? everyone uses it. So you guys were going all Psycho thinking how does this guy cheat and get this one thing and jump on it to kick him from tourney? Zero evidence? LOL... i call it someone is getting Sued.
You are right. Although we don't actually know what led to the DQ. But it's definitely far fetched to say it's because he noticed invalid placement, that would be silly af.
Admitting that you can check if a dock was placed on four lakes map by scanning with the palisade is not admitting that you cheated. Everyone can do that, it is a game issue not a player issue. Bet you did it too at some point.
Bro, he addresses this in his video at multiple times. 1 - Multiple instances on four lakes where bee pulls villagers with no vision or knowledge to destroy opponent's dock (vs. demuslim, beasty, etc) ; 2 - Confirmation from rtw organizers that repeated use of wall scanning is bug exploitation and thus a bannable offense; 3 - all players know about palisade wall trick in fog of war but everyone else had the common sense to know it's not an intended game mechanic, thus no one else does it
@@alexlee5383 but if you have that resource at hand it is very hard not to use it for competitive advantages. THAT exploit is present. How do you proove that all of these guys don't know other exploits that BEE doesn't know and they are using them too. The game has still serious bugs. In my opinion they all just ganged up on him to remove a strong opponent, and BeastyQT as you can see is a person who knows how to get people to agree with him. And the kind of manipulative speech that he has is typical of someone who wants to eliminate someone else. But at the same time makes it sound like he doesn't mean it, when he repeatedly says "that's not me saying it, it's the rules". They cancelled this guy pretty well and it was fast without letting the other guy defend himself. Looks like something from a totalitarian regime. Not that he cares, but I kind of lost my respect for Beasty after this.
@@theunknown4645 mate don't talk about you don't know about. I saw once (and now is banned) a guy with an HRE keep fairly far from his base, so he couldn't use the emergency repair from the TC connection. What did the guy do? Connected house after house until he reached the keep and was able to use emergency repair. It was entertaining? Yes. Fair? NO. No where is written that the palisade scan is not allowed. And these guys all know about the palisade thing...Bee only used it to another level on a specific map. They know they ar enot dumb and they know about other things which we don't.
@@sonofnikator4819 Totalitarian regime?! Come on man, this is a private organization running a tournament for a game developed by a private corporation. Completely remove beasty from the equation for a second; Bee is an up and coming fan favorite, what would they have to gain by making this decision without very good reason? Sure, beasty has a lot of visibility but Bee's investigation started long before beasty's involvement and nearly all top pros reached a conclusion of more likely guilty of some sort of hack than not (demu, mista, mlord, etc). You imply I'm being manipulated? Lol ok and your rebuttal is that other players could be doing it just haven't gotten caught? It's clear nothing can be said that will change your mind, gl mate
Are you presuming that Microsoft, Relic, EGCTV, Red Bull, and other pro gamers are guilty of conspiring against Bee.... One of the game's rising stars, that nobody benefits from him being banned if he was actually legit?
@@Svetty00 if you are simply banned on RU-vid, Facebook and you will never know the reason, you will not be given the right to justify yourself - remember Bee.
Is "not ignoring that you can't build a palisade" realy cheating? Should just have roleplayed as if the palisade didn't turn red? There is a documentary about the AUDI Quattro... called "The unfair Advantage..." Racing in an Audi Quattro against drivers with lesser cars. I think Bee is a maphacker not a bug abuser...
@@caradepollasucia I watched old streams when I was learning to play this game. I remember how Bee "farmed" Beasty defeating him several times in a row, it was at the start of aoe4.
@@ТеліпськийРуслан-д4б За читерство, мапхак. Он очень странно играл, он всё знал заранее, ему постоянно "везло", он смотрел на вражеский туман войны (туда где именно находился противник), он признался что юзает эксплойты которые "все используют" и т.д.
As someone who has worked with Bee for years I'm gonna have to see the evidence before I believe he would cheat. Posting this before watching Edit: yea i do agree something is off, i do not believe he is someone who willfully cheat, but something is off. I do agree with beasty too an extent, i want to see proof of cheating. however i do agree with the bug exploit ban
@@mathmoril yea i just finished it. interesting video. just friends with the 3D! clan and Bee but im also a dedicated tournament organizer and team owner so i have to deal with facts and decide who is right and wrong
@@Drikett1 As a tournament organiser, I'd be interested in your view on if a player should be punished for palisade scanning when there is no rule against it (and has been used and accepted in tournaments for over a decade). We don't know what lead to the conclusion and Bee's DQ of course, but I'm just interested in that particular point and hypothetical.
@@CorrosiveCitrus For AoE4 I'm not well accustomed too. From an outsider perspective for most games bug abuses is seen as a game break, unless well documented and accepted, is seen as a rule break under the guise of "cheating". The reason is solely because one player has an advantage the game wasn't designed for that isn't known and can abuse the bug to gain monetary value over others. In small tournaments its a simple DQ, report bug and move on, but in a major event its seen as untrust in the player and can be reflective in future major events. I heard its happened in AoE2 as someone said in the video but that game iirc isn't the easiest to update and you have what you got, where in AoE4, all bugs should be reported and not used for beneficiary gain much less for money in major events. What led to the DQ was the self admittance of the bug abuse, whether true or not, admitted to doing so. I do SC2 events so again not too familiar with AoE4 events and rule structures but should be close to the fundamental same.
@@Drikett1 Interesting. So it sounds like you are assuming it to be a bug. Is that your own opinion that it is a bug or just because Beasty describes it as a bug? How would the people involved behind the scenes for a tournament agree on what counts as a bug or not? And if it's not clear before a player came across it, intentionally or not, how would their past usage of it affect them if it was then agreed to be a bug, but they didn't realise it was. Also if you watch the interview Beasty refers to; Bee doesn't actually admit to exploiting a bug, only that he tried to block off a shore with palisades and then noticed he couldn't. You could probably see how this can happen to any player with no intention behind it. If it was found to be a bug, how would you handle situations like this? let's say in SC2, a similar mechanic existed, and it was ruled to be a bug, and someone tried to place a CC as per normal play, but then it shown it was invalid placement; what's the normal procedure there?
wall scan is very inefficient and he doesn't do it on ladder cuz it's useless, he's hacking and trying to make us believe that he's only "exploiting" a bug
Wall scanning is inot inefficient when you know the map like the back of your hand. 4 Lakes has a lower % of land than your average competitive map. Most of the time, the wall scanning would be mainly used in Four Lakes to detect docks. Then you have the map seeds that he likely shares to someone in real time and they create a new custom game using that seed and give him the positions of all resources in real time so he wouldnt need to scout. He can also do it himself on his second PC.
@@auberry8613 yes you our a friend helping could easily set it up. Because in tournaments no one is live everything is delayed on purpose. The only way you could have that advantage is by map seeds! The palisade wall thing so what still does not explain. It could be trees, mountains, resources, whatever. You see players have a hard time putting up walls around there own base. He said that’s how he knew there was a dock there. I would have said I was taking a chance because this is what player’s do! Could have been a scout blocking the wall, trees, anything but he said dock. But his timing on being everywhere at the right time during tournaments? Suspicious to say the least!!! He had something to see! And his interview with fitzbro did not help his case in the least!
I used to be into the esports scene of another game and the few bans were equally inscrutable and the publishers were equally cagey about their decision making. It was later rumored that their technical capabilities to detect certain types of hacks weren't that great and they basically didn't want to help cheaters learn to avoid detection. They let them keep playing with cheats for a while so they couldn't figure out what was giving them away.
Yeah everyone asking for details about how it was detected are just fueling the next generation of hacks to avoid that detection. Relic and Microsoft should absolutely keep that info private (and also keep improving their detection tools) because an open arms race would be much more costly.
I know exactly what bee is talking about. This is just bad design from age of empires if it's a bug. They purposely allowed you to build walls in unexplored. If there is an enemy base or other buildings then you cant build obviously. He just find the lake, it's a circle... and if there is a big bulge where he can't build and then a lake again he knows a dock is there. Fix the design, I thought this was how it works..
@@diggoran this isn't a hack, it's suppose to be game design, but I guess they did not mean to allow walls to detect and proactively not build on enemies buildings. It's just an oversight, I thought and bee thought as well I guess that it was a new implementation. I never thought of the recon abilities like he did though, genius.
@@naturalie2425 I sympathize with Bee for finding a genius use for an unintended mechanic, and not being allowed to use it. It feels like your brain is being handicapped so that the people with faster hands can win instead. But this is clearly unintended, so you know it’s going to be controversial if you use it. The safe thing to do when money is on the line is at least ask a tournament organizer in private if it would be ok for you to do that. If it’s ok then you keep it your secret strategy. Get that permission in writing. If it’s not ok then it gets added to the handbook as a banned strategy, so everyone knows not to use it. You can now feel safe winning thousands of dollars and not be afraid of being disqualified.
@@diggoran it didn't even seem like a bug that's the problem. Did they not implement this mechanic for terrain and the end of the map? I thought they recently changed it to add enemy buildings so you don't waste time building somewhere that doesn't make sense. Bee is just smarter than all of us
Maybe AOE4 creators should just as aussie said fix fog deer, fix palasade marking to see things etc instead of adding new content haha. Also Beasty you don't have to explain yourself in any way man! Stay positive and go win those tournament my man :)
@@aslof1069 just a misunderstanding cause the game is complicated. Go into custom and drag a wall around the map, you will see you cannot build in certain places, I thought this was game design so you can build around trees easier, but they added an oversight which detects enemy buildings as well as trees.
At first, I liked your comment, because it was funny, but then I checked and it's a lie. His heart rate was ranging 82 to 96 throughout this video, which is his normal level when playing tournament (at least in N4C).
I still think before ending someones career they should have told him specifics about the reason. The way this is handled, not showing anyone the proof and letting his competitors investigate him, is hurting the entire event.
@@sforzz If it was indeed maphacking then they would have to admit their game is not perfect. They not gonna do this 1 month before the next big release. But all COH player know, map hacking is a thing with relic.
Telling how they detected the cheat would inform hackers what to avoid in the next generation of hacks. If they give any info, it needs to be incredibly vague, and you know if they just said “he was maphacking” the next question would be “how could you tell?”
Absolutely agree. And in regard to people defending how this is handled: MS/Relic/Redbull could give concrete reasons without revealing how they proved it, and competitors commenting on it makes it even worse.
Sounds guilty as hell, and no problem with the ban. Just one issue - I remember in a previous video Beasty was showing, ladder game I think, how he was able to see his opponent had dropped a building to take deer, because the deer had disappeared even through the fog of war. Bee's actions seem a lot worst, and maybe he didnt report but... just pointing it out....
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it's just the deer icon that disappears from the minimap. Same thing happens to Relics, for instance. They disappear from the minimap, when picked up. If it's not intended to work that way, then I'd say it's entirely reasonable to assume it's an intended game mechanic.
The difference was in Bee's games he hadn't scouted the deer through the fog of war yet but can "hear" them in fog of war despite no scouts disturbing them and deer making no sounds. Bee didn't say "I saw them move on the map", he literally said he hears them through the fog of war (black space).
I would love to defend Bee, but even if he was using the palisades to search for things that simply does not explain the deer. You arent finding deer using palisades. You arent finding scouts in black fog using palisades because you dont even know what is supposed to be there. The evidence is far too strong that he is using legitimate map hacks.
Honestly, I did not believe a single word bee said when he was interviewed . There is walls in fog of war exploit in game, but there no way that he could track deer, scouts, enemy army and workers with just walls and sounds. It has to more than that.
Yes. Only because of using wall placement like in older aoe games would make no sense. Quite illogical. I also assume that Microsoft or relic have better tools to identify fraud. They will not talk about it.
Bee is the most irregular player of all top 20 by far. In the leadder he loses against ranks 1.4k quite often and lower, but suddenly in tournaments he got superpowers and beat top 5 players without towers, walls with an unsuall aggression not seing in his regular games. Suspicious as fff.
In regards to palisades on docks. You say it’s a bug exploit. Fair enough. There is an ongoing debate whether that’s a mechanic or a bug. If it’s a bug and cheating than how in the serious hell are we not at these developers necks. I mean seriously. This is a 300k tourney and the devs are busy spending months investigating if a guy is exploiting a bug instead of patching it. By their own admittance they’ve known about this for months. Just issue a damn hot fix! I just don’t trust Microsoft/relic. They’ve let me down time and time again. Maybe bee is guilty of exploiting and even things far more sinister, but the devs are also guilty. $60 for a half finished game
Relics/dear/boar disappear off mini map when you don’t have vision of them. You can hear an enemy drop a nearby landmark You can check if an opponent has a mining camp by walking around outcrop. Can do with other buildings. Replay and viewing experience feels like a mobile game. Can’t rewind. No production tab. No units tab. Sacred counter/ wonder counter non existent. Can’t even see each persons worker count at same time. It’s a complete and utter joke. So bad that to save professional play they needed a third party UI to make the games even watchable. All these simple problems that happen almost every single game that certainly aren’t intended. We have to turn some of this anger towards the devs. It’s unacceptable.
No, we really don't. It's a bug exploit, Devs said so themselves. You can cry all you want, Rules of the Tournament clearly state no cheats/exploits. This means at the very least he hasn't read the rules or didn't give a shit. Ban was justified.
This was poorly handled. If the issue was using something that is subjectively cheating, it should be a warning and the rules should be clarified. Additionally, if this is going to be considered a bug that should be bannable, then it should be considered cheating in all play modes and should be a top priority to fix. Using walls to see if someone is building somewhere is not the same as stealing money, and making comparisons like that is disingenuous.
Not to mention he doesn't actually admit to doing that. Twist of Bee's words. I'm pretty sure you don't need to be native english to understand the words Bee actually says. But even if he was, it's been allowed for over a decade, and the devs still haven't removed it from the game to this day; it's safe to say, they are okay with it, so it's up to tournaments to decide, but you can't DQ a player for a rule that you haven't yet written. Probably the DQ is based on something else, but we don't know.
Really surprised palisade scanning wasn''t common knowledge among all pros. It was around in AoE2. You can just search for Palisade scanning and find 3+ year old topics about it in AoE2.
He admits later in the video that he does know about it. Contradicting his statement that because Bee knew about it and didn't report it, he should be DQ.
@@darieldonato3968 He does not know why Bee was DQ. Palisade scanning is: 1) Not explicilty against the rules, 2) Not confirmed to be performed by Bee. What's so hard to comprehend?
@@darieldonato3968 1) Literally not true. Listen to the words Bee says rather than what Beasty says he says. If words aren't your strong point, Bee made a clarifying comment which was pinned on the interview video. 2) Repeated exploitation of a bug is against the rules. Palisade scanning is: - Not confirmed to be a bug. - Not confirmed to be performed by Bee. What's so hard to comprehend?
I'm only 10 minutes into this but I have a question: How does Bee's poorer performance in ladder tournaments indicate cheating? Is it less possible for him to cheat during those? I'm brand new to all of this so I genuinely don't know.
I think it implies that he doesn't use cheats in ladder games, but resorts to using them against more skilled opponents My only assumption for doing this, if it is what he is doing, would be because he's skilled enough to not need it against weaker opponents and it is good practice anyway.
I don't know enough about the situation, but as someone who struggled with English in the past and a Ukrainian background, it really doesn't seem like Bee is admitting to spamming palisades. He's saying he wanted to build a palisade on his lake and couldn't because a building was there. Fitz asks leading questions and I doubt Fitz is being accommodating for the fact that Bees English is dogshit. I'm not going to claim his innocence or anything, but I do think we need to be somewhat accomodating for people who can't articulate themselves very well in a language. They should be able to make their case in their native language and have access to a good translator to capture the nuances between languages. It's entirely possible that relic and MS have full clickstreams and event logs of player actions that they can make a stronger determination of the player taking actions that are either bug abuse or suspicious activity, we do this kind of stuff in fraud detection and anomaly detection all the time, so I would suspect they have some hard evidence to take out a top ranked player.
That's tottaly possible that Fitzbro was actually trying to extract confirmation from him in order to make him say things. These guys are all against him, you can tell. But these guys do exploits too, altough not in such an obvious manner.
''t's entirely possible that relic and MS have full clickstreams and event logs of player actions'' It's entirely possible that they don't because they can barely address these issues and bugs which ARE SOLVABLE. It is not something unheared, other games had similar issues and got solved through a system. But they kind of ignore it.
@@sonofnikator4819 Fitzbro is very impartial and fair about it all, check out his update video on it. The only person in the community I respect what they have to say on the subject so far.
At least I know I'm definitely not talking shit when I say you don't have to be native English to understand what Bee is actually saying then x) Clearly he didn't say that he's palisade scanning, just that he accidently saw it. But even if he was, it shouldn't matter, it's not against any rules.
Okaay. I think BeastyQT is cheating. I don't have any proof of that, but i've took a look at his replays and I clearly see he's cheating. I've asked 4 friend of mine in Discord and they all agreed. And Beasty was suspected to cheat in SC2. He will say, that he never was, but my friend says he was, so Beasty is guilty. Please ban Beasty.
Mate, i don't agree that his sweeping of palicades to spot buildings is an exploit. It seems to me like a clear feature of the game. It has never been listed as a known bug so far and wasn't against the tournament rules. So you are in fact asking the organizers to change the rules after the fact in order to disqualify a player you suspect of cheating.
It's the very definition of scrub mentality. You wouldn't expect it from a pro. Disappointing. It's also very rude and unsportsmen like to speculate in such a way against a competior. Beasty doesn't know what evidence they have. We don't know. Everyone needs to stop pretending they do.
The TOs either have a way to tell the difference between encountering a bug and abusing it, or they don't. If they do have a way, why are they involving other players in the investigation? If they don't have a way, then good luck justifying ruining one player's career and not another's. Fix the bugs/exploits first, THEN you can ruin careers over suspected cheating. Maybe this started out as an investigation into map hacking and they 'settled' for bug abuse when he went under the microscope. That's just an old fashioned tribunal; not a great model for managing your e-sport.
So I wonder, when you tell units to move/attack move to an area that you cant currently see, if your opponent has walled off with out you knowing your units will still auto path to go around the walls. Would that be considered an exploit to know your opponent has walled off or not?
Honestly who knows what's an exploit and what isn't. I think the devs should get their crap together and not put players on the hot seat. I was defending the devs till now, but I guess I should be banned too, screw em.
Yeah, it's always been a stupid discussion trying to distinquish what mechanics are cheating or not in video games (most loved mechanics in most games today are/were "bugs"). Especially when it's something that a player could accidently do, very easily, multiple times. Anyone top player saying they aren't aware of palisade scanning is simply lying, because they have likely done it by accident and it has existed in previous AoE games and is well known. This is why bee is using this excuse because he knows it's typically been allowed for over a decade. This is why I don't agree with games putting bug exploit = permaban in their terms akin to hacking. Tournaments can have their own arbitrary rules of course; but they are, arbitrary - and doing something that isn't clear to be against the rules should result in a warning/remake and changing of the rules to clarify. As said previously however, this mechanic has existed in older AoE games and was not banned in tournament play - without prior clarification, why woud a player assume an unwritten rule has been added.
14:30 He didn't admit to exploit/abuse, at least not in that four lakes game. He said he wanted to wall off his lake. I'm not "on his side", it's just bad to put words in peoples mouths even if they're in the wrong generally.
@@aaabatteries9948 Not sure if you actually read my comment but I'm specifically talking about the four lakes game. He said at 4:32 in the fitzbro interview, "to block my lake".
@@aaabatteries9948 My comment isn't about whether or not he uses it generally or whether or not he actually did intentionally use it in four lakes. The point of my comment is that beasty claimed bee admitted to intentionally exploiting this mechanic on that four lakes game, when he didn't admit to that and instead specifically said "to block my lake". The point of my comment as I said is that it's bad to put words in peoples mouths.
Lucky me I am too bad at this game to even identify if something is a bug or if it is on purpose. The Prelate example just knocked me down :D how the fuck do you guys notice something like that ^^ I am still trying to understand in which kind of directions I should scout for sheep, meanwhile other players: we identify differences in the millisecond area :D :D :D Respect to all you guys who are so deep and help improve game for all!
Its generally the rule that they don't reveal how they discovered the cheating, as usually they method of discovery can tip off cheaters to how they are being detected. Its a lot easier to cheat, than to detect it. And it may be proprietary info (see lawyers). The available evidence definitely supports a ban regardless.
Straight up saying he is using the wall to search for buildings. Then one excuse after another, very strange behaviour overall and not trustworthy. Quite said i enjoyed his playstyle.
regardless of tournaments anything else, Relic needs to fix these bugs. I see no reason why this is difficult to patch. If you have fog you cannot build, period. And while we're on the subject of walls, when you queue a wall segment, you CANNOT queue up a gate on it until that segment begins to be built. This is too micro-y... microing your army == skillz & tactics; micoing gates on walls == lazy programmers on a $60 game. No bueno.
Why would you people even bother with what Bee said in a public video? So many people confuse whatever Bee may say in the public to what the admin may find. *facepalm*
If there is not a list of what exploits should not be used in tournments, this ban is wrong. Because looking into deer dying on fog is an exploit, AND it is alowed.
Not defending bee, but i make use of that on accident myself. If im panning over a place im about to build a castle for example, sometimes deer nearby will do their "yelp" and run away from the enemy units while theyre barely off screen. I can vouch you can honestly hear them.
@@smnvalex that only works when the enemy is around it though, the deer finding thing they are talking about is when you play as/against Rus and try to find all the deer faster than the enemy scout, which he seems to be able to do.
man this makes me dislike beasty.. how the fuck is not being able to build walls on top of existing structures a "bug" or "exploit". Ive had the game for like 2 weeks and i always build forward walls in fog of war, you expect me to believe i should be banned for it? what is the "intended" interaction then, youre supposed to be able to build walls through other buildings? it sounds like there was plenty of shady things about the guys gameplay but beasty chose to focus entirely on this one. makes me think hes just looking for any excuse to get the guy banned.
When you play Delhi is it cheating to chop trees with 5 vills and then build a mill so that wood gets dropped off at the mill? Was the mill intended to be a drop off point for wood?
I think it was. It's not just Dehli, every resource collection building (maybe except landmarks?) will accept any resource drop off after the moment it was build. And if you shift-queue a bunch of lumberjacks to build a mill and farms, this will just automatically happen. So it's not reasonable to ban it, even if it was unintended. On top of that it has very little impact on actual gameplay (especially because it will happen automaticially most of the time anyway). But really it's quite a specific mechanic and just from a coding viewpoint, it pretty much has to be intentional.
One thing I would ask people claiming Bee is being framed or whatever is: Why? Or in more classic terms, Cui bono? What benefit does EGC, MS, Red Bull, etc (the decision makers) get from Bee being banned? They get all this discussion about how players are cheating in their tournaments and the backlash from the fans of a popular player. That seems like a reason to avoid it. The main beneficiary of this will be whoever gets that last slot in Heidelberg as a result of Bee being disqualified. And that will almost certainly be a much less prominant player (Lucifron got his qualifier spot, but was extremely likely to get another slot anyway so probably not the big winner from the DQ). Now that doesn't mean it is impossible someone decided to screw over Bee for other reasons, but it makes me pretty skeptical that something like this was done if the people doing it don't get anything out of it.
I agree there must be no grand conspiracy to ban Bee, but they have sure made it look like there was a grand conspiracy by involving people with a conflict of interest.
@@kartiksaraf4676 So long as they weren't making a decision why does it matter who they asked for input? And who is next able to provide input than the top competitive players?
@@88porpoise I agree with you that 99.99% there is no foul play here. Just saying it doesn't look good to an outsider if the decision making authority says nothing and the direct competitors are very vocal about the situation. In my mind the situation feels like if FIFA banned Germany from the next world cup and made no further comments and then Brazil and other teams are very loudly proclaiming they were part of the decision making process and giving proof that is circumstantial. Not saying marine lord or beastyqt have evil intentions, just doesn't look good
About the hearing the deer im not sure, but I do know that certain things can be heart through fog of war like when someone is placing their landmark. This requires camera to be in right spot at right time tho. I have heard lot of times when opponent puts their feudal age landmark down when Im near their base with my scout or putting my scouts path around their base. This lets me know the timing of landmark. Im not sure if this is still thing (not played for month or so). So its possible that deer works same way and some other things. For us players detecting maphack is borderline impossible without having replay that shows clicks etc. WC3 players could download mod or addon that shows if opponent is clicking through fog of far things that they cant and it tells it in chat. Now what comes down to detecting maphack for microsoft its possible and fairly easy to do. No cheat is undetectable if we know who to look and analyze. Detecting cheat is only difficult if there is no sample to use but once there is player who is suspicious its easy to look at logs and other data and determine if he is cheating. Key is to let that player play for weeks / months to analyze the data and determine if someone is cheating thats why the investigation of bee took 4 weeks. They let him play while gathering data and analyzing it. No matter what he says at this point its extremely unlikely that there is mistake from microsofts part (ITS POSSIBLE, to have false positives), but if its single player that has been been used to analyze and done by human being then its even more unlikely. So bee essentially either used memory inject or read hack maphack or exploit which allows him to remove fog of war or make things visibile when they're not supposed to be such thing could be altering config files or gpu settings or even better hardware related softwares that can turn certain things to map or wallhacks (there is intel software that enables wallhack in fps games and its software meant for CPU's and its setting in it). There is many ways to "create" cheat or cheating environment. Even something as hardware can be used for cheating. For example some FPS games have banned usage of Nvidia freestyle filters because they allow removal of shadows or darkness in matches which results players seeing other players in dark places more easily, but if I told u that similar affect can be achieved with monitor too? I got monitor that has for my taste really good settings to do. So even when Nvidia filters do not work of certain FPS games all I would have to do is turn my monitor to FPS mode and I would see through darkness and something like this cannot be detected anyway or form and cannot be banned.
Beasty makes good points. I want to give bee the benefit of the doubt. But the consistency of his play was definitely fishy, getting lucky one game cool it happens. But consistently being in the right place and right response all the time crazy!!! I know pros study other pro games so you might have a bead on there play style but that is normal. Every pro player says what the other person typically likes to do. But bee is only this perfect in tournaments? I think it is deeper. I don’t think he is using map hack software that would be to easy to find out. But I believe he is using map seeds in real time with a separate computer to know where everything is. He has been caught several times responding in a game to someone he is playing, live stream’s which I have watched and I agreed. Why is he responding in chat to something you just said live. I believe with all the pro players have said and think ok smack on the rist don’t do it again because he is a good player. But and this is a big But, I believe EGCTV, The tournament and Microsoft have way more evidence that they are not releasing! They understand thee importance of and magnitude of banning a pro player. They would not risk themselves our the AOE community by it just looks fishy. They have more information that will take time to come out.
As an aoe2 player its quite surprising to me that palisade scanning in aoe4 is possible, as it was edited out of aoe2 before aoe4 came out as far as I am aware. Coming from aoe2 where palisade scanning was known and _allowed_ and also practiced in tournaments (it was only possible in previously explored areas tho), even to find enemy armies, I can see why some people - including players - would not see it as an offense in aoe4.
Right. In Aoe 2, Viper used to farm scan for armies and buildings in his streams including tournaments all the time on explored map areas until the bug was fixed so it's odd how differently it's perceived in Aoe 4.
On ladder, people dont care or go try hard. if u can hear sounds than its legit. The dock seems fine. THIS GAME IS FULL OF bugs due to bad game design.
I’d love to support bee as he put up fights against top tier players! But after watching game play ove the past few weeks there’s a lot wrong with his game play and something was going on for sure! Sorry people are talking shit beasty! But people will always talk.
There is 1 big question, that is more important. And 1 small funny moment. The big question is - how to find out, that ALL OTHERS PLAYERS did not used this palisade glitch? Several months of investigation from devs/publisher/admins/pro players just to get something on 1 players. Cool. What about others? Because, if there one more (or not even 1), than, maybe, banning Bee is too much? Maybe just suspend him from only RBWololo (it is a big punch)? And fix this glitch? How about that? And a "funny" moment - me, a pepega from bronze, was know about "walls scan" in fog of war from start of the game, heared it from several reviews of the game, and Beasty didnt know about that? Really? That so "cool story, bro" moment.
Okay is building palisade walls. Actually a bug / exploit or is it a feature that the game won't let you build a wall if something is in the way. I think it's more of a game mechanic I can understand why bee thought that and decided it didn't need to be reported I agree boar pulling is bug though
@@TekEffekt just my personal opinion I actually view this as a feature not a bug. I think it's smart the developers made it so you can't build walls through other objects and he just used a creatively. Maybe he just tries harder in tournaments. That said I still agree with the ban for the other bugs exploited like the boar pulling. I just disagree that abusing the Palisade wall thing is actually a bug abuse because I don't think it's a bug
Coming from someone who has been in the Age of Empires 2 community for 16 years, I can tell you that the same thing (scanning fog of war with buildings to see if there were enemy buildings / units there) was absolutely common and one of the most important things to do during matches because it gave you essential info on if the enemy had a forward base there or he was about to raid you (it eventually got patched out in DE). Now I'm going to 100% give the reason to Beasty here, simply because of a specific point (and he even mentioned it in the video): This was a tournament with stablished rules of what you CAN and CANNOT do, and simply accepting participating in it and breaking said rules is 100% reason to get banned / kicked out. At that point it doesn't matter if what he did was exploiting bugs or simply taking advantage of the wonky mechanics that the game has, if it is specified in the guidelines of said tournament that doing certain thing is not allowed, and you do it, then you absolutely deserve to be penalized (just like it happens all the time in real sports tournaments too). If Bee was doing this on the ladder / community games and people would start contacting Microsoft or Relic to get him banned I would 100% side with Bee here because that means that he's taking advantage of Relic's buggy game and it is their job to fix said incosistencies so that it doesn't happen in the first place, but in this case this guy is going into a Tournament and then doing something he knows explicitly breaks the rules of what he's allowed to do, when it is implied that when he accepted participating in this tournament, he also willingly accepted that he would abide by said rules. Of course, all of this assuming that this is due to the "spotting building in fog of war" exploit, in case Microsoft or Relic spotted something else or another kind of software, that's an entirely different story, but that's for MS/Relic to discuss.
I guess the problem is: it was not written "don't use palisade/house scanning". As they acted as if it doesn't exist, no one wrote anything about it. And I am also not sure - also coming from aoe2 - if that was a bug or a feature. But I think it is really about map hacking. When there's a history of using SW to hack CS games it is not too difficult to hack aoe4. I mean relic aren't actually very good programmers so I bet there will be enough possibilities to cheat with coding
I mean if it got eventually patched out, doesn't it mean that it wasn't intended? Afaik, bugs/exploits include doing things that the developers don't intend for you to do.
@@tiredboard it was not patched out for 19 years so... It has therefore been regarded as a feature. It was more kind of a balance change to remove that. Attack move now also got changed.
serral was actually in demuslim's chat while he was watching the interview and when asked by demuslim responded with, "I don't recall" lmao. If he was going to be the next Reynor, he would've been the next Reynor, jesus
I don't get why some people keep falsely associating Beasty with the story around Bee's ban - he just made a one hour video in which he pointed out to a few thousands of viewers how, in his opinion, Bee potentially abused some bugs. How could he ever have foreseen that publicly commenting on such a controversial topic at the very height of its coverage could lead to him being drawn into its vortex?
1. He never pointed out any bug abuse in any of his initial coverage, it was about map hacking or someone feeding information. 2. He did ask for the community opinion even went to an extend of vote poll whether his viewers think Is bee cheating or not after pointing out a) He always find all four deer pack b)Does one scout all the time c) Finds proxy docks all the time d) plays weird in ladder and few more 3. If you lead the charge and speak out to the community why he thinks bee is doing something shady ofcoz there's gonna be outroar. I could imagine if it happens to beasty there's gonna be community outburst as well. 4. He turned down Bee when bee said can I give my point of view because he already made up his mind and clearly said "You can't explain any of these I've watched all these VOD's plenty of time" which plenty of people think unfair but it wasn't a problem. But the thing is he is an influencer, obviously people gonna believe him somehow since he's #1 in ladder and obviously top most Aoe4 pro player. 4. He said Bee admitted to abusing wall bug which bee never admittedhe said "He was about to build the wall around the Dock but he couldn't so there must be something there so I rushed my vills to destroy it". 5. He said 99 percent of times bee finds all the deer packs idk how many replays he analysed but that's very much skewed even if you watch the VOD's or replays of bee game that's available online he never found all the deer pack, it was maybe like 60 percent. Considering all these, if you're an influencer and influencing the community there's gonna some backfire if whatever you mentioned turns out to be wrong. Imagine What bee must've went through when Beastyqt did the video, how many reddit post were made based on beastys analysis and the abuses based on this analysis. So if you don't know why he was banned it's better not to get involved in it cuz as Beasty got a big influence over the community whether he likes it or not. But people who actually brings his gf and personal stuff into play are retards.
aoe4 key logger would solve the issue about what was going on at that moment: we would know if a palissade was built by Bee. If not ? maphack 100%. If yes ? He is just exploiting game opportunities, as we all do at a certain moment in the game when you want to build a wall in the middle and find out your opponent has already begun his.
Relax, play your game, you are the best in it! Don’t let this bother you!! I have been watching you play and I’m so glad to see Serbian player as a winner on Pro scene!! Big support from USA 🇺🇸 keep it going brother
@BeastyQt I didn't know this was a bug, so you should give him the benefit of the doubt. I used to wall around trees where I didn't explore, I thought it was a new feature...
Exploiting is cheating, however there is no clear definition of what an exploit is. That is why you are wrong beasty, only the devs know what is suppose to happen and the direction they are going with the game.
Bee seems to cheat a lot on the ladder he is actually number 2. Oh wait... there is a camera behind him.... Oh, shoot, he stream all his games! Please Beastyqt explain the cheating. Because if bee win its cheating right?
To be honest, having a 54 minute video to clarify the situation does not much in terms of clarifying. Cause it's just too long and most people won't watch all of it. Drop your important points that you want clarified in a list, and get it out simply and clearly. 10 minutes most probably.
Unless there's explicitly a rule against what a player is doing, I agree. Like CSGO tournaments have rules that you're not allowed to be in spots on the map where the backface of a model is visible (meaning you can see through it). This is a good enough rule to stop out of bounds glitches being used in tournament play; and no one is confused about what is considered against the rules when they get into weird and new spots. No invisible backfaces? It's fine.
what is the chance that Bee is banned because of the nationality and this whole invastigation is just to gather any possible evidence? They kicked him from LAN event and didn't even try to say what for. The players and community is trying to explain to us what COULD be a reason, but noone pointed THIS IS THE REASON. Imagine athlete being ban from the olympics without showing any reason for it.
Wait you actively looked at the dieing deer to get information? You actively exploited busted game mechanics that can probably be easily patched? well instead of ruling it out... BANNED
I watch Beasty for game content and don't play the game myself. But I did listen to this whole video and I will share my pov as a comment. 1) What Beasty said all looked highly logical and based on facts and did not overextend into hearsay. I did watch his previous videos in SC2 where he analyses those cheating players from Korea and it showed how proving cheating must be hard. It must also be an energy drain to face people with conspiracist tendency from internet. I think being a pro-player is like being a pro in other sports or public figures in general and it must be so complex because words can always be twisted in everyway and in a mass of people there will always be some with bad intents who will twist words for their own ends. So good job Beasty! I will keep looking at your games like that one against those 6 hard computers, which was so action-packed it looked like a movie (like a Hollywood movie since we all knew who would win, ahah) 2) Without going into a philosophical debate and good/bad and justice, I just wish internet had accountability. And I also think that nothing is black or white and that that Bee guy has cheated, yes, but can always make amends, make up for it, and move on in life. Must be hard to face up to it but not impossible. I also think everyone has done something reprehensible somewhere in life no matter how small or what and that making up for it is one way humans can grow as individuals. Hopefully everyone turns out fine would be my TED-talk last word.
Crazy thing is i knew of this aswell.. and im just a guy that plays once a week/month... You can also see a placed wall while trying to drag walls it shows that you cannot place a wall at that point in that way you can see if someone is building a wall.. If that makes sense :P
I disagree with you. if you don't have the facts that a person is guilty, how can he prove that he is not guilty. What facts should he defend himself against. These exploits are both in the 2nd part and in the 3rd. So this is also not an argument, as for me, if you consider it a scam, so close this opportunity
A lawyer would say don't talk to the police and instead say, I want to corporate but will do so with advice of counsel. I want a lawyer (request a lawyer). Why? Well you as a citizen will probably not know about all the laws and admit guilt unknowingly. 3D BEE should keep his mouth shut. It is up to them to figure it out. Unfortunately, this is also a case similar to employment with John and colleagues (John is made up). The colleagues do not like John performance and therefore evict John by pulling their support. Using a bug to someones advantage is cheating. Game dynamics is interesting. Its no a bug to try to build a wall where you scouted but where you have not scouted, ah, that is not supposed to happen. It allows scouting without using a unit. The bore statement is a bug. I am not sure how much of an advantage this gives against a top player. But make no mistake, information as to what is happening is what separates top players from average or gold players. If Bee is able to know without scouting he has more information than the opponent. I know when my opponent ages up. I hear it. I can also hear galloping of horses and marching of troops. That was a fun experience for me. I hid my few villagers and some horses. What fun! I have had a game with Chinese and I did notice the fire lancers did not brace. I have no means to report this so depend on top players for this. In any case, I am a lowly player so I better shut up on this less it be gossip.
"I will go after MarineLord... OR CORE" LMAOOOOOOOOOO NOT BECAUSE CORE CAN BEAT HIM BUT BECAUSE FUCK CORE OR SOMETHING LOL. Poor dude but I cannot stop laughing
