A man of science reads dozens of books and realizes how much more there is to know, a man of religion reads part way through one book and thinks he knows everything.
morgan4xl A truly conceited man will add the word "modest" to his list of self-professed virtues. You are merely stereotyping personality traits to feel better about yourself. Scientists can be arrogant fools disagreeing with each other, while the 98% of the world that believes there is some type of spirituality can be quite humble, introspective and self-questioning. Moreover science and religion do not contradict anyway, so what of scientists who have a religion?
Its not atheists who have to prove that god doesnt exist, its religious people who have to prove that god exists. All the evidences are on the side of atheists, tho.
+hbilha No not really, Theists do not really have to prove anything at all, why would we? We do not have a quota to bring to faith..lmao. If you believe you believe if not then who cares really? I do believe though that Christians myself included have no right to impose our beliefs on anyone. I do have the right to defend my beliefs and practice them as long as I am not hurting another person. The only problem I have is when Atheists think that there is no reason in faith.
Laurie Durnan If all theists were like you, I wouldnt mind. As long as you dont try to impose your beliefs on others. My problem is with those theists that think they own truth and morality, and try to impose it on other people, and when you contest their ideology, and they are out of arguments, they will throw at you that ultimate argument "well...you cant prove it didnt happen...so...case closed". NO! I actually CAN prove it didnt happen . There is no scientific, biological, historical, social, political, evolutionary, documental, rational, logic evidence that God exisits, much less religions being the actual word of God streamed by prophets. Atheists have the moral and intellectual highground, whether theists like it or not. Sorry.
hbilha lmao you told me....lol. Well you are wrong on a few accounts, No scientifically we can not prove God. How do you figure you have any moral or intellectual high ground. You insult many many brilliant theists. And yes if you do contest their ideology of course they will defend. The bottom line is you can not prove God with the Scientific method, it would be silly to try. God is abstract and is personal. People have many different reasons for believing in a deity, just because you do not does not mean they are wrong or their reasons invalid.
Laurie Durnan I cant prove god doesnt exist. You cant prove god exists. I have a ton of evidence on my side that strongly suggests god doesnt exist. You have nothing. I win. God doesnt exist. Religions are man made.
hbilha That literally made me laugh out loud... You have no evidence that suggests God does not exist. I have a ton that does... You have nothing literally nothing. I win. And yes Religions are man made. But God is not. Just like Atheists say. Just because there is no answer yet does not mean there is not one. Just because we do not fully understand God does not mean we will not. Just a question for fun. For all the miracles that are documented with no explanation for, are all of them liars? or all of them coincidence? Do you not have any belief in what you can not see or explain? Or does it all boil down to reductionism for you?
Dear religious people: Religious people don't get to say there's evidence for the things they pretend. Evidence is for people who don't pretend. Evidence is not yours to use. You get magic. When someone asks you about your god, just smile and say "MAGIC!" If you're not comfortable with that, maybe you should reconsider whether you're actually superstitious.
joseluis14ism Don't you hate it when you join a religion based on the slaughter and eternal torture of 2/3 of humanity, then someone says something mean?
+Docktor Jim No I don't hate because everyone can have their own view. But you atheist act like the Christians are the bad guys and expect people to agree with you so that you can be happy.
joseluis14ism I was the youth pastor at a big church. I converted a bunch of people to Christianity. I hope some of them got out. I am atoning for that. Christians aren't bad. They're just afflicted with a bad delusion. It's a curable condition.
Dax Corsiar You are probably right, but lets be clear that we do NOT know how the universe came to existence. The only thing we know is that it had to be intelligently caused due to the fine-tuning of a couple dozen physical laws to allow for atomic structure.
Dax Corsiar "Even if we scientifically found out how the whole universe came to existence, people will still believe in God. :/" Yes, ignorant and foolish people would.
+intj123 Dear, Even I never assumed anything..Now you are with assumptions about me... Well!!! FREE-WILL is a purely ridiculous concept..& If people have free will, why cripple God will punish people... If God can not stop us from doing bad, he has no rights to punish us... If theist believe in FREE-WILL, then only cripple god will bless them. ;-)
Have you even gone to Hell what you talked about.. If 'Yes' You are not following path of God or God is not able to make you good enough for following his path... If 'No' how could you described it??? Believe in your experience not in written things...
People will die after falling from plan..this is experience what i talked about and It is proved.. If that was written in book only, I wouldn't have believed... If you are saying about Books, Documentaries, there are many books, documentaries against GOD so why don't you believe in those things???
I'm an atheist. If i'm in a difficult situation i don't ask someone fictional who isn't gonna help me in any way. I ask my friends, my family or if necessary a professional. People who are actually going to help me. Also, you put it excellently in your final comment. There is always something you can do. There's not always so much, you can't always get out of it yourself, but there is always something. I was bullied a lot throughout elementary and middle school, and i needed help from my parents and the teachers. I got that, but for my self i didn't fall to my knees and prayed, instead i did as Michael Jackson so finely put it; i started with the man in the mirror. "take a look at yourself and make a change" and that helped me. Now i'm not going to say praying is a complete waste of time if you actually believe. There is something called the placebo-effect. If you think something is going to help it often does, because the mind has extreme superior power over the body. If you can muster your mental strength or simply truly be convinced that what you'r doing will help then it often will. But if you don't genuinely believe (if you do then this comment is of no value to you) i can help, but if you don't then it's absolutely worthless and i recommend anyone to try anything other than praying. Because even though it may help a bit (due to placebo) anything else you actually do is going to help more
All this god, mohammed and jesus stuff is not true in my opinion, TEDDYSM IS THE ONLY RELIGION! We Teddysts believe that in EVERY teddy bear, there is a soul. We pray by cuddling with our teddybears. Our teddybears then give the message on to the upper Teddy and he is the one who is determining how my life is going to pass by. And I know so many people are going to ask me how I can prove this, BUT NO ONE CAN PROVE THIS IS NOT THE ONLY RELIGION! It says so in the holy book of teddy, the Teddyble. It's written there, SO IT'S TRUE! Look: Woolen bears 1:2 "In every teddy bear there is a soul." See? It says so in my holy book SO YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT! There has to be a creator of everything, and that was the upper teddy. Everyone will say: "Teddybears are made by men, so how can a teddy bear create the universe?" BECAUSE THE TEDDY BEAR IS OMNIPOTENT. HE CREATED MANKIND!!!!1 EVERYONE, FOLLOW THE TEDDYSMIC WAYS AND SUCCES WILL SOON BE YOURS!
theist assumptions 1 god exists 2 communication between man and god can occur 3 such communication has occurred 4 god is trustworthy 5 that communication occurred with the writers of the holy books 6 the communication was recorded accurately 7 to this day that written account remains accurate 8 the heart is the seat of emotions and not just a muscle that circulates blood
SFC Cuddles it's just a quibble on semantics then. In my reality tunnel You can think whatever you want just don't try to force it on me. You can say anything you want just don't try to force me to believe it You can do anything you want just don't do it to me without my consent or try to force me to do it. And of course this applies to everyone else. Deism or theism is fine IMVHO it's religion that poisons everything. I think we'd be exploring the universe now if it wasn't for the Abrahamic faiths for the most part.
+Moldred T. Malcontent To believe in any of these insane superstitious things, simply documents you're collective, scared tiny brain's. No wonder the world is still in chaos. People like you. Get real, learn science, not Voo Doo, B.S.
people do like me! but Every life form in the multi-verse is unique from birth ( or before? ) we all have unique experiences that only we had these events in our own personal lives effect how we see, experience and react to the world around us no living thing ever holds the exact same opinion or belief as any other just like no living thing sees exactly the same color as anyone else. You live in your meme/reality tunnel and I live in mine. At times they may run parallel but that's all. reality is what you can get away with. The Aneristic Principle is that of APPARENT ORDER; the Eristic Principle is that of APPARENT DISORDER. Both order and disorder are man made concepts and are artificial divisions of PURE CHAOS,
1. Something from nothing. We know the big bang happened. What caused the big bang? I don't know, but I don't see why it can't be a natural cause. 2. Justice for the wicked This world is not fair. Both me and a mouse would have a very different opinion of my house cat. 3. Fear of damnation Once I learned Santa wasn't real, I stopped worrying all year if he was watching me or not. 4. Reaction to hopeless situations Change the things you can, accept the things you can't, and be smart enough to know the difference.
We built the myth of religion and gods for millenniums, but i have hope that in a few centuries the world will get past that. No more war and acts of violence in the name of gods, but science, to cure diseases and explore galaxies.
+Victor Ximenes Our brains evolved in such a way that religious concepts are possible and even likely just as we evolved a respiratory system that makes colds possible. In short, we evolved our way into this mess and we have to evolve our way out of it. And the brain that allows for people to commit atrocities in the name of religion allows other principles that we don't consider to be religious to act in much the same way. We might be able to evolve our way out of it in a few centuries but I think it will have to be because of a change in the way our brains work.
+Victor Ximenes The gods were obviously created within the mind of Humanity, in an attempt to answer the really big questions. Science has found most of the answers for us,EG. "Where did we come from?", "Where are we going?" "Who/what am I ?". Unfortunately, a great deal of the answers we have found, have fallen on deaf ears because this applies a great deal of stress on the individual, they no longer have this Father-figure to coo in their ear & whisper, "It's all right".
+Roedy Green Particles and all mater are energy. They don't pop in and out of existence because of nothing. Partices have fields. I'm not an expert but I know for sure that they are not out of "NOTHING". Just think of them as waves, you have a line, add energy and you create a wave that goes from -1 to +1. Antimatter and matter, together they make 0 but their field(line) is there; Just a different form that requres and releases energy. If its confusing it's because I don't want to write a lecture
+Petros Oratiou You don't understand quantum mechanics, because quantum mechanics really doesn't abide by modern standards of science and mathematics. When he says they "pop" in and out of existence, he literally means that.
***** but modern sciense is using quantum mechanics. I don't think quantum mechanics can't be understood just because they're strange.. We already have the uncertainty principle, that actually describes one of the strangest phenomenons in quantum physics. But come on, don't doubt thermodynamics.. I think it's out of question that you can't get something out of nothing.
+Roedy Green These are You Tube University graduates you"re trying to talk too. It just seems like complete nonsense because we are complete idiots, and they know everything :)
+Roedy Green Well in fact quantum foaming and particle duality and superposition etc. I suppose could be viewed as subatomic particles appearing from nowhere. However as far as anyone knows they are the same particle that existed before just with borrowed attributes from the future. Subatomic particles are not bound by time in the same way a solid object like a block of wood is. So the most reasonable conclusion is they arrive in a place an time consistent with that fact...and they do. But having said that there's no evidence thus far that 'nothing' is a possible state to begin with. So its not like things can appear from nowhere and nothing if nowhere and nothing are not states to begin with.
You need to read the Bible. God does NOT want anyone to suffer forever! It is by your own FREE WILL that you choose to suffer forever. John 6:47: "I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life." You don't need to make it complicated, being saved is an easy choice, if only you can overcome your own pride.
1DoTLone It's not pride. I dont exactly believe in a book that is written by people with no proof what so ever. What proof is there? I don't exactly fell like wasting my very short life believing and worshipping a god that may or may not exist. A god that is no more real than any other god in any other religion. I sure as hell am not gonna worship a god who's followers only know how to tell people that they are going to burn in hell for not believing. I also will not believe a self proclaimed god who died a couple thousand years ago.
When a stone aged man looks up at the sky and asks, “What is up there and how did all of this come to be?” Honest stone aged people say, “I do not know.” Dishonest stone aged people say, “We know everything.”
FactVsReligion Answers are much too complicated. Here are my answers: 1. As an atheist [whatever that is], I don't care. I might care as a scientist, but as an atheist, I don't give a hoot. 2. Why is anyone even asking this question anymore? 3. There is no hell. 4. Deal with it; prayer hasn't given us any ambidextrous amputees. In my [not so] humble opinion, before asking these questions, the religious need to show that there is a provenance. You can't say 'godidit' without first proving that that god exists.
I read this from another source but thought it was quite fitting to the latter half of this video: "Threatening an Atheist with Hell is like a Hippie threatening to punch you in your aura"
When I was a child I thought that if I tried really hard, I might be able to fly. A few years ago I flew to Australia. Science got me there, not faith.
#1: It’s okay to admit to not having answers, having gaps in our knowledge, etc. Religious people can apparently explain how the universe was created, but for some reason can’t build from scratch a camera, microphone, and codecs that would allow them to post their own video replies. The vehicles that carry them to work, the very homes in which they live. But they can explain how the universe started. #2: The universe doesn’t care about humans; unless we find our own way off this planet all bad (and good) deeds are erased when the sun engulfs Earth (much sooner than that really). Our deeds still play a major role in our lives in the short time we are here. There are some exceptions, but generally what goes around comes around, and that is retribution. It may suck not to have more than that, but that doesn’t mean there actually is more. #3: Pascal’s Wager causes people to change the way in which they live the only lives they are sure to have. People who think they are wrong in playing the “I lose nothing if it is true” card are dead wrong; They lose how many hours and dollars to church? How many hours listening to pointless sermons? At the end of the day, those are hours lost that could be spent on Big Brother, blood donations, AIDS awareness projects (though Christianity forbids wasted sperm, implicitly denouncing the use of condoms), fund-raising, etc. (actually making a real difference in the lives of strangers), and none of these things are served better with a side of preaching. #4: Good reply-there is definitely nothing more useless than prayer. Many Americans sent prayers to the victims of the Philippines disaster…instead of money. Prayer is a way of getting yourself off the hook. If what you wanted to happen happens, you can pat yourself on the back and convince yourself your prayers were answered. If more Filipinos die of starvation because they don’t have proper funds (with food being a donation, we are talking about more than just money for food-money for transportation, etc.), it’s God’s will, nothing to do with you not sending money… Either way you prayed and feel good thinking you did what you could. But with respect to the one who asked, who clearly wants to know the inner struggle we endure when the matter is personal and imminent, Atheists endure more personal tortures, struggles, and hells than you can imagine. If we are both in the situation where our 6-year-old daughters have been raped and then strangled to the point of near brain-death, with no clear outcome, my struggle to come to grips with it will be far greater than yours. Prayer will help neither of us, for in my example scenario the girl dies either way (my lack of prayer vs. your onslaught of prayer). At the end of the day, you can tell yourself she went to heaven (though the Bible asserts that children are born with initial sin, but we won’t get into that right now), while I cannot bear such comfort. We don’t have heaven as a convenience to get us through tough times. We have to be strong on our own and deal with it on our own terms, which may be different for each of us. And when you ask how it is possible to get through those kinds of times without the comfort of heaven etc., it only shows which of us really is stronger (not to say there are no exceptions; some might go on a killing spree, but that is very minority either way). However, what if I turned that question back on you for your #3 question? What if you were wrong and she did not go to heaven? What is that was the ultimate end to her 6 years on the planet and no retribution is necessarily going to happen to the guy who did it nor is she going to a place of infinite joy? If you lose Pascal’s Wager, what justice have you done to your little girl as you walk around happily each day “knowing” that she is in a better place? Is the end result not that she just lost all of her ambitions, dreams, and even the joy she brought to others, just because a guy was sick and horny one day, and you feel ultimate comfort? Dealing with the harsh reality that sometimes it gets that bad makes me more human. It might suck sometimes, but I will not give that up.
As to the justice question, following the beliefs of Christianity for example, it doesn't matter if you torture or kill others because all you have to do is confess your faith is "jesus" and you're off the hook. So where's the justice there?
Maddy Moore it does matter if you kill people but if u sin u have to repent which means u have to pray to God to forgive u and he will forgive u. Don’t u think it would be nice to have a God love u no matter what and forgive u for what you’ve done?
Really? This girl has no idea what we mean by God, does she? The answer to her question about who created God is that God did not have a beginning, he is the beginner, God is timeless, space less, and immaterial. So if you are timeless then do you have a beginning? No. Really the Big Bang proves God because of that, the Theists response to the Big Bang is God. The Atheist response is, uuuuuuhhhhhhh, let me get back to you on that.
So you say something can exist without a beginning? Thats nice. Then i say the universe has no beginning. Its was, is, and will be. Ofcourse this is bullshit. But it has as much evidence as your god being eternal. Give me one reason that i should believe your claim. And even if we put that aside, there are still a lot of problems. Immaterial you say? You know, that means nonexistent. Yeah. Nonexistent. Tell me one thing that is immaterial and does actually exists. Go ahead. I dare you. Space less? Last time i checked he was omnipresent, but whatever. Being spaceless, again, means nonexistent. Tell me something that exists and is spaceless. Anything. Think a bit before you blindly follow what some guy in black robe tells you. Especcialy if that guys income depends on you believing him.
Benedek Verburg Yes. God has no beginning, if he did have a beginning, meaning he was created he would not be God. Oh, and I am a Theist, I do not follow a man in a black robe.
I'm afraid i didn't word my point clearly. You are saying that something can exist without a beginning. Now i say to that, why not leave out the god step and state that the universe had no beginning. Else it wouldn't be an universe. Again, this is nonsense ofcourse. But, my statement has just as much validity and proof as yours. None. I would like to know where you got the information on how god looks and behaves. And you didn't adress the other problems i pointed out. And by a man in a black robe i meant a priest.
Benedek Verburg The big bang is proof that the universe had a beginning, therefore it cannot be eternal. God however is timeless, space less, and immaterial. So if you are timeless do you have a beginning? No.
The big bang is only proof of the big bang. The universe could have easily existed before that, and in that case the big bang was caused by the universe collapsing on itself, and now the cycle began anew. And i don't know where you get all this information about your god. It doesn't state such things in the Bible, wich means you are basically making up stuff you have no way of knowing just to justify your belief in something has no evidence whatsoever and makes you feel good. I even showed you why the spaceless and immaterial thing is not possible. Those are the same as being nonexistent.
i like how our questions are genuine. i mean, u genuinely want to know these things and us athiests will tell you. you're not questioning just to defend your religion.
If non-Christians go to hell because we're descendent of two people who ate some fruit, what do you think happens to the descendants of animals who ate Christians? The afterlife will not be pleasant for lions.
Drew Sauveterre Actually, the belief of the Creatards is that there were no carnivores originally; Lions, Tigers and Dinosaurs (yes, Dinosaurs!) were all Vegans until a talking snake convinced a woman birthed from the rib of a dust monster (Adam) to eat an apple. One can only conclude that as the animals were also punished, they are thus also "sinners", and will go to Hell for not keeping the Sabbath holy.
Question for christians: If there is a kind loving god, why would he damn his children to hell simply for not worshipping him when he does not give us imperical evidence that he even exists?
Your question is fallacious. God DOES give mankind empirical (not 'imperical') evidence of His existence as Creator. For a full theological answer to your question, simply read St Paul's Letter to the Romans 1.18-32. This section is only fifteen lines, so if you fail to read it, you will have achieved nothing except to prove your question insincere. As for the scientific take on your question, you'd profit from reading about Intelligent Design, particularly the digital code in DNA (of which Darwin knew nothing). You will quickly come to appreciate that the Intelligent Designer is infinitely more intelligent than any human mind could ever be. Stephen Meyer's book 'Signature in the Cell' is unmissable. Finally, consider that creation cannot have come about by 'chance' as the improbabilities involved, even for the creation of the simplest living cell, are so mind-bogglingly enormous that they evaluate to absolute zero. Nor can creation have come about by so-called 'evolution' as the interdependence of creatures is absolutely circular in nature, not linear as Evolutionists would have it. In other words, neither the chicken nor the egg came first; they must both have been created at the same time. Meyer demonstrates the same thing for DNA.
>St Pauls Letter (citation needed) >Stephen Meyer's book (citation needed) Also, your opinion on improbabilities is debatable. The lovely thing about the universe is that anything that is not absolutely impossible (which is nothing) can occur somewhere in the universe, where the situation is just right to cause it to occur. i.e., our planet is less that 0.000000000000000001% of the universe, and the situation is just right for all the things on our planet.
I can answer the first question and turn it back on religion. The Big Bang theory actually states that all matter was condensed into a single point, not that it created matter. The basic laws of physics confirm this; matter can't be destroyed or created. On that note, what did God make the world out of? The Bible is extremely vague on this topic, but I suspect the answer is nothing. How do you make something from nothing?
What is the probability of the first cells to emerge without involving a guiding intelligent force ? Would you say that it is plausible that a tornado over a junkyard could produce a 747 ? Would you say that it is plausible that mindless random chance can write a book, or produce the hardware and software of a computer ? The cell is like a factory, that has various computer like hierarchically organized systems of hardware and software, various language based informational systems, a translation system, hudge amounts of precise instructional/specified, complex information stored and extract systems to make all parts needed to produce the factory and replicate itself, the scaffold structure, that permits the build of the indispensable protection wall, form and size of its building, walls with gates that permits cargo in and out, recognition mechanisms that let only the right cargo in, has specific sites and production lines, "employees", busy and instructed to produce all kind of necessary products, parts and subparts with the right form and size through the right materials, others which mount the parts together in the right order, on the right place, in the right sequence, at the right time, which has sophisticated check and error detection mechanisms all along the production process, the hability to compare correctly produced parts to faulty ones and discard the faulty ones, and repeat the process to make the correct ones; highways and cargo carriers that have tags which recognize where to drop the cargo where its needed, cleans up waste and has waste bins and sophisticated recycle mechanisms, storage departments, produces its energy and shuttles it to where its needed, and last not least, does reproduce itself. The salient thing is that the individual parts and compartments have no function by their own. They had to emerge ALL AT ONCE, No stepwise manner is possible, all systems are INTERDEPENDENT and IRREDUCIBLE. And it could not be through evolution, since evolution depends on fully working self replicating cells, in order to function. How can someone rationally argue that the origin of the most sophisticated factory in the universe would be probable to be based on natural occurence, without involving any guiding intelligence ? To go from a bacterium to people is less of a step than to go from a mixture of amino acids to a bacterium.
Not understanding something does NOT prove the existence of a creator. Complexity does NOT imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer. Many systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of the scientific theory of evolution.
CaveFreediving Actually, my life is IMMENSELY better than it was with god. And you can say "I believe", but there is no substance or strength in that statement at all. There is no evidence. Christians linger on "but there is no evidence that he DOESN'T exist" That is the only argument theists can muster up. That is the LAST line of defense. What is so wrong with there NOT being a god? Enjoy the time that you have and live your life. It is as simple as that.
If god is so forgiving then why did he drown the world and all the animals, why did he send his son aka him on a suicide mission, and why is there a hell?
Timothy Mostad I agree, my question is to the people who choose to believe it. I know it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors but I'd like to see the rationale behind it.
King Tetsumaki Oh yeah, Mr atheist, then tell me this. I'm going to say something that'll change your opinion on religion entirely, and you can be savoired by Jesus Christ his lord and savoir himself. if there is no God, then you tell me. How does the sun rise or lower itself. Does Einstein control that too? I didn't think so. Now get some proper bible textbooks and edumicate yourself.
Wow, Roth. You seem to be ahead of the crowd. Which man created him? what was his name and what country did he live in. Why would such a postulate even be asked by a creature who for 50 billion (?) years never felt the need to do so? Why would a fish ask what is water? Why did this question arise 10,000 years ago and not sooner or later? The sun needs no explanation anymore than does a stone (does it?). For a creature who changed from several atomic elements into one with conscientiousness (what's that from a materialistic point of view?) why would the question even come up or why would it begin to think ANYTHING needs explanation? As Bertrand Russell once said of the Universe "It's just THERE! that's ALL!" The is no survival benefit to speaking about God. Having a sense of the transcendental doesn't help garner additional mates. King, I think you made this up.
These aren't really questions for an atheist -- these are questions that a theist thinks are "gotchas", but they're not -- the answers are: 1: We don't know -- & neither do you 2: What about them? 3: There's no "uncertainty" -- because there's no afterlife to worry about 4: It depends on the situation -- but asking an imaginary friend for help isn't even on my list Boom -- done...
Obviously, at least 1 thing exists or we would not be here to talk about it & nearly as obvious, it is at least 2 things. Things might not be exactly what we perceive them to be. We might be in an artificial simulation or maybe only I exist & I created all this to keep from feeling lonely & bored. I certainly know that I exist or I could not be talking about it & no matter how philosophical & abstract we get, it seems there must be something I am interacting with tho I & the world may not actually be as I perceive. It is good to think about & realize the possibilities yet until I know for certain, I must live in THIS world as it is.
***** In fact ancient Indian philosophers [advaita/non-dual philosophers] thought that its only I who exists.. a pure formless impersonal consciosness.. no God nothing just ego-lesss I... and I think of the universe and I am trapped in my own imagination .. in the form of infinitely many different beings... I think thats quite possible you know... but I prefer not to believe anything blindly... but this philosophy is not nonsense... in fact the Boltzman Brain theory is quite similar to that...
how did god come to exists? if you believe he just existed before he created the world then why is it so hard to believe that "matter" and being always existed
As much as I agree with you that certain evil people like Hitler died in misery, it misses the point. Even if he didn't and he died like many other evil people in bliss and happiness, it doesn't mean anything. Sometimes there just isn't justice. The universe can be a cruel place and those who are honest, hardworking, good people get screwed all the time while assholes get rewarded all the time. What we want and what is are very different. It can sometimes suck but that's how it goes. Making up an all powerful being that will one day punish people might make one feel good but things aren't true because it makes people feel good or that's how they want it to be. I'm sorry if people don't like that answer but it's as true as we currently know things to be. I'll take a lesson out of Sam Harris' book. If we imagine the ultimate bad, for example, people burning alive and never passing out and feeling the pain the whole time for eternity (not necessarily the vision of hell but let's call that the ultimate bad), anything that is better than that we can imagine is at least by comparison, good. If we go to the opposite extreme we can imagine that being the ultimate good. My goal in life is to do thing that make me and others around me be as close as possible to the ultimate good. It doesn't always work but that's the goal toward which we should all work. Some good people get screwed along the way, some don't. Some bad people get punished along the way, some don't. And some good and bad people do really well along the way. And that's life.
disastron30 There is zero need for that kind of depth or word salad here. We are talking in basic terms. Good and bad have meaning on planet Earth and just about every person alive understands what people mean when we use these words. This kind of analysis isn't remotely necessary in a conversation like this. It's merely about being punished by a justice system or not. That's it. If there is no afterlife, and that's what I am assuming here, then if someone is an asshole (and again, we needn't define these terms for this type of discussion) and does without getting punished by society then they have beaten the system and such is life.
The big bang isn't so much a beginning to our universe as it is a horizon to our knowledge. Like the actual horizon, we can't see what's on the other side of it. That doesn't mean nothing is there. As currently described, the big bang (typically) involves a singularity. That's not something from nothing. That's everything from everything.
"Better safe than sorry" means that Christians too are in doubt which means they'll go to hell. With god you have to be 100% sure . Carnivores kill innocent herbivores and get away with it everyday very easily, so every cruel person can get away with anything. The pain that a chicken feels when its head is being cut off is no different from the pain that you'd feel if the same thing was done to you, so why do you only speak for humans and not animals. There is neither a beginning nor an ending, time will always be there. the universe and time are infinite so we can't really know where stuff came from and why it decided to show up now and not earlier/later. I'm not an atheist but the stories in the bible sound like fairy tales. You must also understand that atheists don't hate god, all they want is proof .
+DAVID veilleux Beauty and intellegence are both a matter of opinion. If some one would think that ugly woman are beautiful and that dumb woman are intellegent, then it won't be rare to him to find woman who are 'beautiful and intellegent'. But you presented your opinion as if its a fact. Its not a fact for I don't think she is beautiful not do I think she is intellegent.
Intelligence is a quantifiable, measurable property. And while you are entitled to your own opinion about things that are subjective (such as beauty) it speaks to your character that you chose to say something negative about another human being rather than just remain silent. That says a lot more about you than it does her.
When you ask questions like "where did god come from", "who created god"..., you are making the assumption that god is merely a earthly being like you, has a body that grows and dies, lives within a world with time and space dimensional limitation. You will never get the right answer if you make false assertion at the beginning.
Adam Chan "When you ask questions like "where did god come from", "who created god"..., you are making the assumption that god is merely a earthly being like you" no, Christians state everything has a cause, therefore if God exists, by Christians own reasoning God must have a cause, Christians state that anything complex must have a creator, therefore by Christian reasoning if God is the most complex thing to ever exist, God must have a creator, otherwise all Christian reasoning is fallible and bullshit,
jethropike1964 When discussing with the term 'god' with atheists or in in atheist related threads, I always presume god refer as genetically the mind that behind all the creations in and of the universe. For atheism is the disbelief of any god or gods not just the Christian god. Keep the above in mind but regardless I don't think you understand the philosophy I mentioned in my first post. Our world have time does not necessary mean god lives in a world also have time. We create a word god to denote the mind that creates everything. It doesn't mean we have the wisdom and knowledge to understand what or how god exists. For this as I stated in my first post would either downgrade god into a earthly being or inflate yourself into thinking you have the capacity to know the whole universe and beyond.
Adam Chan there's no reason to believe in God in the first place. I reject the religious assertion that Gods exist because there's no empirical evidence to make me think they could or do exist. if someone provides evidence for the existence of Gods then I'll accept the existence of God, if God is supernatural he cannot have an effect on the natural world. creation is a physical action and requires a timescale, therefore time has to already exist for God to create time, for God to have an effect on the universe first he has to become material, God has to come from somewhere, after all you can't get something from nothing,
jethropike1964 I don't know where you get your idea god must be constrained by time in order to create time? Perhaps because I am a software developer, I have no problem to believe I can create a virtual reality of my own. It would be quite funny to think I must have lived in the virtual reality I created before I created it. Oh boy I don't even know what I am talking. Oh please try to think about definition of each word. Why can't 'supernatural' change or alter natural? What does super means? Hmmm
Adam Chan supernatural is an event that is beyond the laws of nature, ie it cannot have an effect on nature because it is beyond the laws of nature, virtual reality is just that, pretend artificial reality, it is the computer-generated simulation of a three-dimensional image or environment that can be interacted with in a seemingly real or physical way it needs time to exist, you pursue virtual events and actions which would be impossible without time, you can't create a virtual reality without time already existing ,
So the world you see around you is guided on some level by karma? So, how do you compare an infant that dies young and a man that lives to an old age by stepping on people all his life? There are inequalities in life, that's a fact. Karma is only one step removed from Christianity in that it assumes everything gets balanced out in the end. I look around and I don't see that at all. I see poor battered wives living in misery, I see beaten children scared to come home at night, I see people killing on a dare... and across town I see people born with a silver spoon in their mouths who think they're intrinsically better than the poor, who they see as soaking off the system and cutting into their profits. Men who drive around in fancy cars and live to ripe old ages sipping expensive drinks on beaches and never having a worry in the world. There are inequalities. Karma doesn't exist in reality anymore than Christianity does; only in the minds of those convinced of them.
Eric Gorall ya umm you are proving my point. You are talking about the western/pop culture view of karma not what buddhist karma actually is. Before you go on a rant please do some actual research.
Shane Goguen I have looked into it. I admit I'm not an expert of it though. My understanding is that karma is a balancing system, that if it doesn't balance it in this life it seeks to do it in the next and where you go is partially determined by it.
Its not. It has nothing to do with the outside world karma is all about thought and consciousness. Neg karma could be an emotion like anger. Anger is the "effect" but the cause could be because your boss is a jerk. But he is only a jerk because he is behaving in a way you don't like. You, however, are also the cause because you cannot accept the simple fact that you can't control him and that's what makes you angry. If you are aware that the world and other peoples minds are always changing and the only thing you can control is your own mind you will quickly change your anger. You will then not go home and yell at your wife and continue the spiral. You dig? Karma is positive and negative weights on you and you alone and is always in flux. The better your karma the more at peace and therefore happy. This is why the Buddhist statues always have a smile.
Eric Gorall What about psychological torment? Abuse, depression, and hereditary mental illness? Being a social elite doesn't make anyone immune to that. The truth is, there's more to "suffering" than the lack of financial/material resources. Rich people don't have to worry? They worry about not being able to outlast their competitors and thus unable to maintain their wealth. They worry about not being able to surpass others in grandeur and accomplishments. Some are such over-achievers that they commit suicide over minor failures in their careers. Human greed is infinite. As a result, people are discontent no matter how much they already have. The ultimate curse of humanity - what we desire the MOST is the one thing that we DON'T have, and what we take for granted will one day be lost. To sum it up: greed and impermanence inflict pain on all of us, regardless of social class. We all suffer equally, but in different ways.
1. Do atheists think that something can be created out of nothing? (this is a very loaded question that I get all the time) -I don't know enough about astrophysics to answer about the big bang. This is a question I like to turn back on theists since God supposedly came from nothing and creates from nothing. 2. What do you think will happen to people who kill and torture others? - We try to bring these people to justice, don't always succeed. As far as after they are dead?.. nothing happens, since they most likely cease to exist like everyone else who dies. 3. How do atheists deal with the uncertainty that they might go to hell?- Why would I worry about something that almost certainly doesn't exist? 4. If you don't pray, what do you do when you go through a difficult situation that you can do nothing about?-- Depends on the person. I tend to do my best to improve things, if I can really do nothing then I just move on. Worrying about things I can't change does nothing positive.
Why on earth would a divine being need the security of people believing in his existence? A mature human being wouldn't worry about that, so why would a presumably wise deity?
That is something I never understood. According to the bible, a horrible person can go to heaven as long as he believes Jesus died for their sins but a really good person could go to hell just for not believing. How is god a just god? Seems kinda petty to me. Where's the justice?
Can something come from nothing? Isn't that the religious position? There was nothing. Void. Then there was everything. Sounds like a universe from nothing to me. There is another problem. There is no proof that "nothing" can exist. That there has ever been a condition of nothingness. On top of that, "nothing" has not been defined.
"nothing is what a rock dreams about" -Aristotle // Nothing is literally "no thing" therefore nobody can measure nothing since the person's existence itself is against the idea of nothingness.
Christopher Williams No one has ever demonstrated that it is possible to have nothing extant..... a complete void. Can you show that it is even possible to have a "notthing"? It is strictly a human construct at this time. Like a hypotenuse. Or pi. Or infinity.
you answered about sadam and hitler but what about gandi of india who was the founder of non violence movement in india but still shot by someone.there fore your idea that bad people get punishment in this world,i can give you hundreds of examples that bad people like sadam and hitler died normally and get away and nothing bad happen to them,for example gangaz khan and qublai khan in the history ,the killed thousands of people and ruled and enjoyed and died normally but the people like gandi who never harm anyone ,the also killed and tortured by someone in history
i am not the lawyer of gandhi but atleast he was the founder of non violence movement but still killed by violence and genghis khan was never killed by any one
palwasha tv Philosophies of non-violence existed way before Gandhi. He didn't found anything. And he didn't even fully believe it anyway. He was a hypocrite with regards to non-violence so his non-violence amounts to nothing. He supported non-violence when it suited him and justified violence when it suited him. He was bitterly racist against Africans and was overjoyed when they were getting slaughtered by the British colonialists in their attack on the Zulus. And he even went so far as to criticize the British for not letting the Indians also join in with the slaughter. Then when he finally convinced them to let Indians play a role in the effort, he expressed his utter disappointment at it being an exclusively non-violent role for them. He longed for his fellow Indians to pick up a rifle and taste blood. And as I said, it's not known how Genghis Khan died so you don't get to claim knowledge of him not being killed by anyone.
Got to about 1:04, and decided to politely counter and give another question! Hope you're interested, ma'am. Counter to "Who or what created God?" I can totally see how you would have that question, it's extremely difficult for our human minds to wrap around. The thing is that God is an infinite being. He had no beginning, therefore he has no end. We cannot grasp infinity, so I, you, or anyone cannot explain how that works Anyways, as you said, science does not always have the answer. That's definitely true. In fact, we are all able to ridicule the science books just 20 years ago; since, science is constantly changing. So, based on that though, would you consider believing on solely science as faith? It constantly changes; been changing, is changing. So, with uncertainty, why would you choose that over something that has stayed the same for ages, and has never been disproved? So, really i got two questions lol. Thanks for reading!
+MannsMusic all religious Gods have been disproven, all descriptions of Gods in religious texts have been proven wrong, the Biblical God doesn't exist, it has been proven wrong, the world and universe didn't happen/come about like it says in the Bible, a being that exists outside time and space cannot have an affect on time and space, because if it affected reality, it would have to physically come into existence , it would have a beginning and therefore wouldn't be infinite, Christianity hasn't stayed the same for ages, the Catholic church has made over 10,000 changes to the Bible, which includes adding the virgin birth, the resurrection of Jesus, the lineage of King David,etc
+jethropike1964 uh. No, no, and no. I don't know where you got that information, but you should ask the person that told you to do some research. You cannot prove or disprove God. There is evidence for and against, but you cannot prove the existence or disprove. However, so far, there's nothing that goes against God. Every Biblical evidence found is in favor. For example, the full filled prophecy of Israel becoming a nation once again (not a single country has done that). You should look into it. That goes with evolution too. Evolution is not science. Science is observable, measurable, and repeatable. You cannot prove or disprove evolution. It does require faith. Why? Well because no one was here to see the supposed first eukaryotic cell which was destined to advance and build up the modern human.
+jethropike1964 And no. Christianity has not changed. It's the same. The people? Yes, they've changed. Our angles upon looking in the Bible are different. For example, the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. Most christians have turned against people who are gay, which the Bible is totally against. The Bible says to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So, you hate the sin, not the person. It's like saying that anyone who lies should be called a faggot. Same idea; nonsense
MannsMusic yes it has totally changed, the whole basis of Christian belief, the resurrection of Jesus never happened, it was added in the 4th century, by the Church, every single Bible found written before the 4th century doesn't have the resurrection in it, Christianity is based on an interpolation, the cornerstone belief that makes Christianity never even happened
+MannsMusic "The opposite of faith isn't doubt. It's certainty." What is it you're saying 'has stayed the same for ages and has never been disproved'? Certainly not the Bible; it's cannon has changed MANY times throughout the ages and contains numerous internal contradictions. [If that doesn't constitute 'disproof' I don't know what does.] For instance: Is Jacob the father of Joseph? [MAT 1:16] Or is it Heli? [LUK 3:23] What about the sins of the father? "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." [ISA 14:21] Or, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." [DEU 24:16] Has anyone ever seen God? "No man hath seen God at any time." [JOHN 1:18] "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." [EXO 33:11] The only reason you can say it's "never been disproved" is because you buy the same fancy footwork you yourself will have to engage in in order to explain away even these few contradictions. And there are many dozens more. You're free to believe Bronze Age folklore is inerrant and immutable. But I'll take a self-correcting scientific method over that every time. 'Better to have questions you can't answer than answers you can't question'.
It seems that atheism is only for the blessed ones . *sarcasm of* I personally don't even want to talk with believers or be around them , because I cant help feeling superior . To me there nothing else but degenerate remains of our effort to search for reason , but its 2013 now and I get the feeling that if people willingly believe in a deity they are just plain stupid .
There was nothing I disagreed with and to be honest, there was quite a bit I was jealous of. I wish I had been as level-headed as you are when I was your age. I went through so much questioning and ugly times because I wanted to believe in a religion that made sense of it all. But it made no sense at all! I kept trying to make it fix the questions I had when I kept finding more and more flaws. I am specifically thankful that you were very polite and considerate in your responses. I think that's a superpower that I don't possess but would dearly love to. Love the video and appreciate what you are saying and the way you are saying it.
Heaven and hell both did put me of religion. It was the eternal aspect that did it. For ever happy in heaven feels after a few millions year like hell. For ever in hell for doubting a story feels immoral.
Shoulda simply sat home and read the bible for yourself instead of getting misled by preaching church folk who tell you things that are allegedly biblical instruction, when in fact the bible says the opposite!
Allright if you read the bible and then come to the same conclusion. Do not use apoligetics but simply read it. All in all this is just an awfull bad god.
1 blank big bang, before? dunno, gonna search hard 2 nothing, life isnt sacred, we like to believe life is sacred because we dont wanna die and is the most precious thing we have, but it isnt sacred, if you kill somebody you doing a bad thing a thats that, the only thing that can happen to this type of person is the coletive going against hin(do not believe in karma) 3 I might get wings and start flying around, i'll worry about that when it happens 3a "better safe then sorry" so i should believe something that i dont because i'm scared? well thats religion all right 4 I would try to do something, and in all fairness maybe I even pray, dunno, let say my legs and arms are broken and i have being shot and left in the desert to die, dude I would cry/scream/ in that moment I would do anything to survive, if someone says "gonna make you live if you kick a old lady next week" you bet you ass that I would fucking kicking that old lady, not because i'm a bad person, just because I would be in dispair, i have never being in so much dispair to pray and i dont think I would, but maybe i would dunno, but it doenst mean i believe it'll make a diference, I already try all the possible way, lets start with the impossibles, in the other hand if I was in a plane going down i wouldnt pray, i'm certanly that it wouldnt be enough time for me to lose all hope just to explain, I dont believe in god, i dont think it exist or that prayer change anything, but I wouldn't be doing racional thinking so there's a chance that I would pray, none that it would change anything
WolfEyesatNight I never said that life wasnt beautyfull or without mystery, i said it was the most precious thing we have, simply because without it we are nothing, theresnt a after life, so you got one life to do the most of it, thats pretty amazing, all the possibilits, live the better way you can, cus its one time thing, thats why i would do almost anything to survive you can meditate on all your actions without praying for a invissible man in the sky, and if you do pray for hin them your "meditation" wont be true because you're not think with your actions are the right thing to do , you're think if the dude in the sky agrees with you, if you think he does then you're doing the right thing, thats how people do bad things using god as a shield and a brainwash tool to make another person to also do bad things So you came here to say what I do believe or what I dont? thats arrogance, i just said that i dont believe, but because i'm reasoning and think and with god arguments I must believe in god because a theist couldnt do it? you sir are arrogant and full of prejudiced when you look for truth you have to forgot god, because if you are looking for something while you have your on agenda, while you think something cannot be untrue no matter what you'll be bias towards the evidences the bible isnt true you know, isnt a historical document, its a literature
WolfEyesatNight 1 the bible mentions god, the man in the sky is a reference to hin from alot of people 2/3 Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (2 point for the price of one) 4 the main goal of the bible is obdiance and controll, promissing a happy life after you die You didnt coment on alot of things i'm to assume you have seen how wrong you are on those thing?
WolfEyesatNight 1 where is said that god is not a deity? 2 selfpunshment? Matthew 13:50 ... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. not selfpunishment 4(?) how can i be truth to my path if i have to follow somekind of bushit or i'm wrong? dude get you facts strait and comeback when you are ready to make sense you seem like someone who was taught somecrazy ass wanna be bullshit, all your assumptions are made based on a lie
You go to hell because you deny God, not because you dont believe in God. Apart from God being loving and kind, he is also Just, At the end it is the Justice and Mercy of God that plays a major roll. Your morals come from Gods Moral Law embedded in the heart of all mankind, it is not the product of Fizzing Chemicals. If morality was the product of fizzing chemicals.
it is the product of fizzing chemicals and you are an ignorant brainwashed blithering idiot.enjoy the infinite darkness of nothing that awaits your bloody fucking corpse
"Your morals come from Gods Moral Law embedded in the heart of all" if that's the case how have we taken some of Gods "embedded morals" decided they are immoral and rejected them, what moral compass did we use to reject Gods morality if Gods morality is the only morality we have?
jethropike1964 What you mentioned is called the Mosaic laws, they are not the Natural Moral laws. They were divided into two, social laws and ceremonial laws, those laws were not universal, unlike the moral law which is universal, they were formulated only for the jews and the Levites, for the purposes of deterring them from committing the same abominations for which the pagans were destroyed for.
Veritas Splendor "formulated only for the jews and the Levites" no they weren't there was no such thing as a Jew in Moses' times, they were given to all mankind, so you're saying the ten commandments aren't binding either because they were given to Moses, so we can ignore them also so is killing a homosexual immoral or moral by Gods morality? I'm confused.
praying does serve a useful emotional and psychological function regardless of whether anyone is listening (they aren't). the important thing is that the one who prays surrenders, relaxes, and acknowledges that some things are beyond their control in life. it's accepting their predicament, accepting their feelings, and facing the possibility of the worst case outcome. pleading and hoping. this psychological release can be achieved through other means without the pretense of speaking to an invisible entity, basically just getting yourself into that accepting, hopeful mindset. meditating, daydreaming, relaxing, or whatever. the. effect in the brain is the same.
Everything has a beginning except the Almighty God. It is that simple. So for those who wants to waste time with their calculations and scientific theories in coming up with an explanation of how we got here other than creation well let them. A
Don't have to. In fact as it seems you are not taking the bible's word for it either. So I wonder where you expect to get an explanation for that....scientist?! The same scientist who cannot until now furnish an explanation where the "Bang" came from or who have no success with their mutation experiments. I cannot for the life of me understand why people hate the bible so much. What has it done?
Jason Cummings "Everything has a beginning except the almighty god." You do see the special pleading fallacy there, right? What has the bible done? In the pursuit of knowledge about the real world... next to nothing. We don't know how the universe began, or if it even did "begin" with the big bang. And it's ok that we don't know, because we can keep on looking for an answer. We're not confined to what an ancient book claims. There aren't answers for everything yet, and some questions may never be answered. Such is life in this universe. Picking an answer just because it "feels right" or makes the /most/ sense out of what people have suggested doesn't mean it's the correct answer. The bible doesn't stand up to scrutiny as a source of knowledge about the universe and many of its claims aren't even testable, so what good are they?
And I cannot imagine people would believe something as complex as the universe came into existence from nothing or no one. That evolution is the source of the universe existence; evolution, that is not even a living being with an intelligent mind or a purpose. No explanation as to why we are here or where we are going. Why we grow old and die and what is the hope for dead loved ones, in fact hope for mankind. We are just here on a roller-coaster ride of endless evolutionary existence. For all the thousands of years of man's existence it is up to 19th century scientist to explain the meaning of our existence (which they haven't). Everything just "shazam"! into existence. It is scientist that make up evolution theory. And no matter how loud their voice gets they will NEVER establish it as a fact like the earth being round or water is made of H2O. Scientific knowledge is hardly a reason to discount the bible....as it turns out many scientist says it inspires them to search for God.
Although i do hold to belief i have to say i was impressed by your ability to share your thoughts without harshness..i actually share a lot of the same answers and i admire real honesty seen in you .it is a shame i don't stop to question more often how my life will show my belief for good and not for the things that pass. In the end i alone am left with the result i choose.Thanks
For those that find themselves in hopeless situations and start to pray, ask yourself the following question: What do you prefer when a pilot of the plane you are in is in a hopeless situations 1) He stops thinking and start to pray hoping god will save the plane. 2) He tries to deal with the situation to save the plane.
I love you for being so genuinely engaged with this subject, and for saying what you think so clearly. I agree with you mostly. You seem like someone who would be interested in the states of mind than either bring us down or lift us up, so I would recommend, in the highest degree, the novel "Island", by Aldous Huxley; it may seem a bit dated (1962), but he was always ahead of his time ("Brave New World" for example). Using a fictional East-meets-West "alternative" community, he explores all aspects of the ills of modern society - including the blindness of narrow, man-made belief systems, and gets to the point: the exploration of consciousness in the Now. Also, I think I'll have a look at the new book by well-known atheist Sam Harris ("Spirituality without Religion"), which explores the same area. I would just point out though, that Tibetan monks, or anyone, could recite prayer without believing in an external, wholly "other" being, simply as a way of being "present" - I could imagine doing that if I was freaking out: but I have used other techniques. BTW, Huxley and Harris both mention psychedelics, but they are not central to what either is saying, nor are they the "sine qua non" of being aware. Or even necessarily helpful. IMO! All the best to you!
I thought some of your responses could have been a bit more to the point, but good job overall nonetheless. You are articulate and intelligent, and enthusiastic without being histrionic. You also have a pleasing voice, clear diction and good pacing.
One point is - the universe didn't necessarily come from "nothing". We also thought it was "nothing" as we couldn't detect anything. But quantum theory is now suggesting that what we previously thought of as nothing is in fact a melting pot of potential particles and energy. And if they're right, then that's one more piece of ammo the religious types don't have anymore, as they use the "how could the universe have come from nothing" argument quite a lot.
Hello, first I just want to thank you for approaching this with sincerity, as that is the only way a peaceful dialogue can have a hope. :) I briefly want to draw a distinction on the way you answered the first question. When asked "What does an atheist say about the universe coming from nothing?" your reply is "a" reply among possible others. Atheism is not necessarily a positive assertion, its a negation of whatever formulation the theist presents when describing a supernatural being/event/thing. I happen to be an atheist myself, and my view is that something can come out of nothing, indeed we couldn't have something unless there was nothing from which it sprang. And hence I reject the western doctrine of "out of nothing nothing comes". I also maintain that science will eventually allow us to come up with a physical model on which we can erect abstract principles about the relationship between nothingness and somethingness. Whether or not the big bang had a prior something, or a prior nothing, we can always ask with respect to that prior something or nothing, whether it also came from something or nothing. Alan Wilson Watts is my source in case anyone is interested in disputing this, should they want to look up his more detailed view. Cheers :)
+David Mireles "we couldn't have something unless there was nothing from which it sprang" I disagree. You're saying the conservation of energy/matter doesn't hold up, even though in every testable case it does. Do you have proof that everything had to originate from nothing? If not, then you're making an assertion you can't support. "And hence I reject the western doctrine of "out of nothing nothing comes"." I don't know why you called that "western doctrine", but can you provide a single, verifiable example of something coming from nothing? Again, if not, then you are contradicting evidence-based scientific findings without grounds, which makes your statement a faith-based claim. "Whether or not the big bang had a prior something, or a prior nothing, we can always ask with respect to that prior something or nothing, whether it also came from something or nothing." Well, no. If we assume that time has a starting point, then we can't always follow that reasoning, just like we can't see what's one degree colder than absolute zero. If we do not assume that time has a starting point, then it could be endless, or it could be a loop, and in either case, the energy/matter that exists could simply be a constant amount that exists at all points in time. In any of those possible views of time, the explanation I've provided would be internally consistent, would hold with current science regarding things like conservation of energy, and would have nothing to disprove it. You would need to come up with some evidence of ex nihilo creation to continue.
Secondly, you appear baffled that I attribute the popular counter of (c1): "out of nothing must come something" to a doctrine of the west, namely that: (c2): “out of nothing, nothing comes”. Its a common phrase in Latin “Ex nihlo nihil fit” which is consistent with (c3) “out of nothing, something comes”. You ask where I got this notion of doctrine: It was a thesis actively disputed western history of thought. It derives from the Hellenistic philosophy which questioned the classical tradition on the subject of creation from chaos on a priori grounds. It culminated into the idea that the “primum movens” must have created the world out of nothing. The Hellenistic period followed the previous period of Neoplatonism. Since then its had a profound post-historical impact our view of creation among the intellectual class and showered down to the lesser degree of understood individuals, even too many modern physicists today; really anyone who treats the notion of nothingness as insignificant in character is drinking the Koolaid of this early western doctrine.
I like the fact that you are actually giving your own answers to these questions its mostly just the top arguments of apologists. You should check out Matt Dillahunty if you havent already he delves deeper into some of the doctrines and etc i think you would enjoy his videos.
My wife was a atheist and was brutally murdered by a believer , I ask a Christian where she thought both went? She said both to hell and laughed out loud
It isn't often that I would be so intrigued by the intelligence and insight displayed in a video that I would actually search for additional videos by the same producer. But, this is just what I am about to do. Great job!
I wholeheartedly agree that "anything you actually do" toward solving a problem or settling an issue is far more productive and effective than praying. In the final analysis, praying accomplishes nothing.
Am I the only one who thinks it's annoying one of the questions is "but in your theory these people don't get justice"? Who said people need to get justice, theories aren't made to satisfy morals
I hate when ppl try to explain the existence of a god based on others lack of knowledge.. If I don't know how something work or happened, does it prove there is a god? please respect my intelligence...
The question at 3:35 is a very valid one and I see you trying to answer it the best you can by relating to how your brain works. Reading Sam Harris's book "The moral Landscape" he validates that feeling of vindictive justice. But then he goes on to explain why we are vindictive and how there is no real person to blame. These relatives of the victims would not feel the same way about torturing a hurricane or an accidental car crash. So what we are condemning in this case is the free will of the individual to maliciously cause harm. Look up his explaining how free will doesn't exists because it actually doesn't take away the meaning behind your actions have or the reason to get up in the morning. He explains that if you were to become that person you wouldn't be you any longer, the thoughts you have and the feeling would then become based on that person's brain. That you would inevitably come to the same thoughts and actions as them and now those actions are on par with tsunamis and the like, only a product of being not a product of malicious intent.
On the roof of a very tall building are four men; one is asian, one is mexican, one is black, and the last one is white. The asian walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and jumps off the roof. Next, the mexican walks to the ledge and also says, "This is for all my people" and then he jumps off the roof. Next is the black guy's turn. The black guy walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and then throws the white guy off the roof.
Disclaimer: I'm not an atheist. That said, let's examine this logically. Let's pick any object, say Earth. Let: Z = Earth Y = Big Bang X = Dense Hot Gas What created X? answer: W What created W? answer: V One is forced to consider two possibilities: 1) You can ask this question forever, meaning there is infinite causes for infinite effects. 2) There is a cause that was never created (not even necessarily saying God, but something not having a precursor) Scientifically speaking, I think we can agree that 1 cannot be true. So if 2 is the case, then the argument is: this thing that was never created -- what is it. Did it have any intelligence, or was it just something that was existing always for time indefinite until one day it decided to give rise to the first atoms.
Using Pascal's wager as a reason for faith is a lot like saying: "What if God exists? Therefore God exists because I'm afraid to not believe and be wrong."
Hi, I saw your video and could not resist to leave a comment about it ^-^. This are some of the questions I'm always thinking how to answer without hurting anyone's feelings so I'm going to do my best to answer them properly thinking is for someone that actually wants to know an atheist point of view about them. I'll try to be as respectful as possible. 1) Do Atheists think that something can be created out of nothing??? I think this is a very important question for religious people because in a way it ask: -Do atheists believe in something? if they do, what is it that they believe in? Here lies a very important part of what separates faith from reality in front of the eyes of an Atheist(of course this is my personal opinion). To separate them without hurting feelings I'll explain the following. Atheists believe as much as a religious person does. For example I believe tomorrow I'm going to be alive but that is never certain. Lets imagine you have a son or daughter about 4 years old. You mistakenly convinced your kid that bananas come from cows. Later at school the kid foes to his or her best friend and share this brand new knowledge the kid has. If the other kid correct yours about it, your kid won't take easily as truth. Your kid may even get angry at the other kid because for your kid it would be like if someone is calling you a lair. The thing is that the kid never knew for sure about the whole bananas predicament from the beginning, the kid is trusting your word because the kid still lacks the knowledge to answer the question "where do bananas come from?" with a solid basis. Most of the knowledge kids have is still to be corroborated it by them but they still don't know it for sure. I took the child as example because we all Atheists and religious people can identify ourselves with that kid. ///I hope I'm not offending someone so far. A kid is born with no religion or spiritual orientation, that's a fact. We all go for what seems to be our best choice the moment we chose it in order to achieve our goals or answer our questions. If someone offers you an answer that is not possible for you to corroborate, like "god did it" you will still feel satisfaction from getting that answer, but at this point it still only counts as a guess and because the real answer can still not be verify before death, you will never get the correct answer while living. While we grow up as humans, we keep learning and developing until we have our own morality and personal way to see the world we live in. Do you remember how you used to think your parents knew everything? As you keep on growing and learning you get to face things your parents don't know or even things they had wrong information about. For example if your mother tells you about a country been in a place where is not, and then later you find out by checking on a mappa-mundi , you wouldn't get irrational at it and throw it out the window for calling your mother a lair. Now, believing what your mother says is true or what the mappa-mundi says is true, is still just believing. If you actually go and corroborate by yourself that the country is indeed there, that will be proving for you your real answer, it separates the guess you had from reality. To create things out of nothing is a very strange concept with or without god. You are getting into a question that is still too difficult for you too understand as a human just because if no one gives you a tangible for this question, this is where you can place your "best guess" you may have not noticed it yet but you are looking for a way to corroborate your beliefs by asking this question. But what would happen if you get a tangible answer, one that you can corroborate? Well, you will have your "real answer". In history we have seen how religions either adapt their beliefs to the new truth claiming their "best guess" has something to do with the new "real answer" found. --->You have still need to prove yourself if what you believe in "your best guess" is actually the "real answer".
Q: Do atheists think that something can be created our of nothing? A: Define this nothing. Where do i find it? When did you last see it? Q: What will happen to people who kill and torture others? A: What happens to a non Muslim who finds Allah? What if he has killed prior to finding Allah? Do not presume to teach me about morals when loopholes of this kind, are a tenant of your religion!!! Q: How do atheists deal with uncertainty that they might go to hell? (pascals wager for the millionth time) A: How do you know that it is not Zeus that is the real god, every time you pray to your god you may just make zeus more and more angry. (Courtesy of Homer Simpson). The technicality answer is actually quite good as well. Q: How do atheists handle adversity without prayer A: When shit happens one has two options, 1 one can sit down and cry one's eyes out. 2 one can adapt to one's new circumstances and persevere. I prefer option number 2. It seems that those who pray (in the sense phoning god) prefers option number 1. Note: Not all theists see the act of praying as talking to god. A more modern way of thinking of prayer is searching one self for the wisdom that god(fictitious is his existence....Most likely) has given us, while clearing the mind of distracting thoughts. this newer almost Buddhist way of thinking is prevalent among the modern theists in Europe.
Well, I am an atheist, but after having seen her I am not so sure angels don't exist after all. And she's smart. She really had a point in those questions. Of course it's easier to agree with another atheist when you are an atheist too, but I liked the way she answered them. Anybody knows her name?, because I've taken a look at the comments and I don't think she is replying to any comments. It's been 7 years since she uploaded that. I wonder what she looks like now, because in the video she looks quite young to me.
I like questions.. I want to answer them as well: - Can something can be created out of nothing? / 'What came before the big bang?' etc. A: I don't know if something can be created out of nothing. Going by current knowledge of quantum mechanics, sorta. They (virtual particles) are needed for certain observations to 'make sense'. So, they only exist in that exact instance where they're 'needed', to be annihilated straight after. Personally, I don't really see this something coming from nothing, seeing you cannot do anything with them or observe them directly in any way like we can with the universe as a while, but it does show that 'weird' things can happen involving the creation of matter. So it could very well be that something can come from nothing, without anything else involved. I just don't know. Of course, you could put god into the next question that would come up: what, who or how did the universe or multiverse become able to do these things? In the end there might just be questions we will never be able to answer. But to then put in god in the gaps of knowledge doesn't explain anything. How does god do the things it does? How did god become able to do these things? What is the mechanism by which it created everything? It just creates so many more questions than it answers. Which is why it's a lousy answer - What do you think happen to people who kill and torture others? A: So, you want to get a sense of justice? Here's the problem with inserting god: you might be wrong. In other words, you might think these people, after death, 'get what they deserve' (altho I agree with the video: I don't think endless torture is ever just). You feel better and go on with your life. But what if what they did was EXACTLY needed to get into 'heaven'? What if they don't get what they deserve? Then justice will never be done after death. This is partly why I'm not in favor of the deathpenalty. In death you don't worry, be in pain or anything else, because you're dead. So if someone wronged you, there is no way to get justice, if the person it dead. This means that in our lives, our actions instantly become so much more important. This life of ours decides if we'll get justice. But not just justice, but also experiencing happiness becomes infinitely more important. Because after death, we won't experience anything. I live in the moment. I want to get that chance, my only chance, to live a happy life and I know I need others to succeed in doing this. So, I'm nice to others, give them the opportunity to do similar and with this, we both work towards bettering ourselves and the world around us. - How do atheists deal with uncertainty they might go to hell? A: I go with the explanation in the video. I don't fear it, because I don't believe in it. And even if there was a moment where I thought that there would be an afterlife, I would have no clue which religion would have it right. Seeing the ideas themselves are mutually exclusive, you'd have to choose which to follow. ...but that makes that choice just as uncertain as you believe our positions are - What do you do to get through difficult situations A: Also go with video. Either I do something, anything to make it better, even if it was just slightly better than what it would be if I didn't do anything. And if I can't, depending on what situation it is, I rely on others, as they can rely on me to help them out.
It doesn’t matter that god doesn’t exists. The Bible is true because it has been proven to be true again and again. There isn’t just one Noah or Lot or David, there were many, and there will be more.
1.) Nothing is the lack of something. for whatever reason there is always something. nothing doesn't exist as far as we can see unless your definition of something is narrow
#1 It's true that we don't know how the big bang happened, or even what banged. But we do know it was not nothing. No scientist claims the universe was created from nothing. At this time the answer to what banged would have to be, "I don't know." "I don't know." is a perfectly legitimate, though rather unsatisfying, response to a question. "I don't know." is THE most important phrase a scientist (or any person for that matter) can utter. "I don't know" is what drives science forward. It is the beginning of learning and understanding. "God did it" (a miracle) is even more unsatisfying than "I don't know". "God did it" is the END of learning. Man kind was held back for over 1000 years because of "God did it."
I like this video because it tries to genuinely address points that are, to the best of the vlogger's understanding, honestly raised. Everyone who is posting along the lines of 'lol, religious people are stupid' is missing the most important point.
I am 22 years old I was raised as a christian and decided to become an atheist last month here are my answers: 1) as about the creation of the universe,I don't know.I don't believe that god did it.now as about the big bang,I am not sure how true or false it is. the belief that everything came out of nothing is false,nothing came out of everything. matter and energy cannot exactly be destroyed or be created BUT it is possible for one to turn to an other.everything already existed,just the energy was rearranged and turned into matter. the heavy elements were formed millions of years after the start of the big bang. 2) well they are evil and deserve a punishment.but there is absolutely no evidence that heaven and hell actually exist.and we don't know much about the after life in general. so if we don't punish them while they are alive they might never get the punishment they deserve. 3) since atheists don't believe in after life it means that they have one life,so it it would be better for them to spend it effectively other than spending it in jail. as far as I know god send in hell the evil people,(unless if you belong to a religion where the god sends there every non-believer or worshiper of other gods or homosexuals). so if I am not evil I have nothing to worry about. as I said previously there is no evidence for such thing as hell.but still let's say it does,so? the physical pain is caused by many reactions in our bodies which eventually reach our brain,if you use anesthetics you will not feel pain for some time.after you die you body is destroyed so your soul is incapable of feeling physical pain. 4) I am not sure if you want to read my answer to this question but I will answer it either way. in life there is the easy way to do things and the hard way to do things.and those 2 ways are rarely the same. after many years I realized that many things Christianity teaches(not everything),are basically the easy way. the logic about prays is that if the pray works then then od heard it other wise he works with mysterious ways.and these mysterious ways are pretty much the same with what we call coincidence.if I prayed to kim jong un I doubt if the pray would have different results(and there is no way this dictator would do anything to help me). nobody was ever cured from aids,whether they prayed or not. how you think we made certain diseases to disappear from many places of the world?with praying?no!it was done with the vaccines.and to create those thing we needed to do years of hard work research and experiments. if there is a difficult situation then I would either do something to solve it,either wait until something happens and the problem goes away or will have to accept the hard truth that I nobody can do anything about it. also something I hate about the orthodox christian weddings is the psalms,so many psalms.orthodox christian weddings are so fucking boring.can't we do it faster like Catholics do?it's not like these psalms do anything either way.
As an atheist, I think the answer to how did the world get created is simple.We don't know because we are not advanced enough. The answer may be simple, but we're not smart enough. It's like asking a cat how the house got built and being surprised that it doesn't know.
